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Luxury Performance Sedans



  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    No problem. Sorry if my words are occasionally wrongly chosen. I probably should have written "one of Infiniti's engineers from Japan" rather than a "Japanese engineer" because the first phrase is what I meant and that caused an unnecessary misunderstanding.
    Anyhow, I drove the M35 and M45 sport and non-sport and even the M35 has so much power off the line that most people probably wouldn't need the M45.
    I would consider the M35 luxury as a "best buy."
    If you get the M you will have a very sharp vehicle inside and out and I'm sure you will love it.
    I checked out the interior photos of the Acura RL in an auto magazine and it did get me thinking that I should drive this vehicle because those photos show the interior as gorgeous.
    Peace! :)
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "I checked out the interior photos of the Acura RL in an auto magazine and it did get me thinking that I should drive this vehicle because those photos show the interior as gorgeous."

    Prepare to be disappointed.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Poor handling or just boring? I saw one on the road and it did not look like a $50,000 car. But the interior looks very nice in the photos.
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    When I first sat in an RL back in December (while my MDX was getting an oil change) I was instantly smitten, but was not in the market for new wheels. I again took a look at the RL in March (MDX oil change again) and spoke to my Sales Rep; he informed me that they were disappointed in the RL's sales and that he could make me a deal. I was still smitten at the time and began considering switching vehicles (FX35 for a sedan). As you might surmise from this and other recent posts research and deliberation have led to some interesting observations.

    The RL's interior does not "age" well to me - by that I mean that the more I sit in it and test drive it the less I like it. To that extent I must agree that the interior is disappointing. I do not like the center portion of the dash, nor the placement of the "joystick" On the other hand the M35 interior did not overly impress me at first; however the more I sit in it and test drive it the more I like it.

    Still no decision but as time marches on the M is clearly in the lead.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    It seems like in most comparos, the M comes in first and the RL comes in second.
    The fact that CR hates the RL is a distinct plus as far as I am concerned.
    But like I said, I have never sat in it or driven it.
    The M was a lot of fun-really quick acceleration.
  • isthisallisthisall Posts: 12
    I have always driven moderately priced, extremely reliable hondas and toyotas.

    right now i have a 2003 525i, bought new. it is truly wonderful to ride in, except it leaks water into the rear floor, and the dealer cannot fix it after 4 tries.

    my favorite car would be exactly the same car except one as reliable as my old hondas.

    does such a car exist? i.e. with the visibility, comfort, safety, and driving feel of a bmw, but as reliable as a honda?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "The fact that CR hates the RL is a distinct plus as far as I am concerned."

    Since when? It seems to me like they gave it a "meh", which is what I would give it. The RL isnt fast. With 300hp it should be fast, but it actually brings up the rear with the A6 3.2 and GS300 (I'm not counting the S-type 3.0 here).

    The RL doesnt handle particularly well. Its got 4,000lbs and 60% of it up front. SH-AWD does its best to control the amount of understeer poor weight distribution like that brings, but it still feels like a FWD car.

    The RL is actually smaller than the old one, and thus it has interior space problems like the GS. Other than that, I love it.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Okay I'll bite, he said with some trepidation, what's a "meh?"
    Like I said, I haven't driven it, but it seems to come up quite frequently in the #2 position in auto rag comparos. There must be something to like about it.
  • turnbowmturnbowm Posts: 76
    "right now i have a 2003 525i, bought new. it is truly wonderful to ride in, except it leaks water into the rear floor, and the dealer cannot fix it after 4 tries."

    Sounds like this is a candidate for the Lemon Law. The mold resulting from the water leak could pose a real health issue.

  • isthisallisthisall Posts: 12
    thanks very much for this suggestion. Indeed georgia law apparently says my car does qualify as a lemon. that is: a defect not repaired after 3 attempts within the first 24 months and 24,000 miles, at least one of which occurred in the first 12 months and 12,000 miles.

    if i notify them now they get 2 weeks and one alst atempt to fix it or must replace it or refund the price of the car adjusted for use. sounds almost too good to be true. I need to check into this. it is not clear how they can replace a 2003 5 series with a car i agree is equivalent. :confuse:
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    CR says: "The powertrain is polished, but ride and handling don't stand out in this class. Interior room is not much better than in the much less expensive TL."

    In other words, its not necessarily bad, but its not necessarily good either. Its a resounding "meh". However, now that they are selling at $5K off sticker, it finally is a pretty good value. It should've cost $45K to begin with. Frankly, I dont get why the RL has been rated so highly in the automags.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    I don't think they quite know what to do with it. "Meh?" :confuse:
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,094
    Actually, even at $5k off sticker I really don't see the value propostion in the RL. It's still ~$10k more than a TL and while you get a few more toys with the RL I don't think you really get any better performance, interior space, economy and certainly not higher style. I think the TL is the best styling Acura/Honda has done in years (yes, I own an '05 TL...). IMHO, stylewise, the RL reminds me of the last gen TL in that it is handsome, but generically so. Doesn't stand out at all. Maybe at $40k it might be on more lists for the sh-awd and other toys...

    '13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.

  • cmybimmergocmybimmergo Posts: 265
    How much do you love the car? Maybe it's worth it to take it elsewhere before declaring it a lemon. My (inexpert uneducated) guess is you will wind up with the adjusted price of the car...meaning then you have to find yourself a replacement, and sometimes the monster you know is better than the one you don't.
  • bobcatmanbobcatman Posts: 51
    1. M45 (219 points with 24 of 25 points in the “fun to drive” category, along with 3 other “bests”)
    2. RL (215 points)
    3. GS430 (208 points)
    4. E350 (202 points)
    5. A6 (199 points)
    6. 530i (198 points
    7. STS (191 points)
    8. S-type (181 points)

    Car & Driver usually puts fun to drive factor on its 10 best list and the RL is on it. Nothing to sneeze at here about the RL. When you slam and open the door (Thunk!) on a new RL you'll see why Honda/Acura builds a better product construction wise than Nissan/Infiniti. Fact is the new M cars are absolutley wonderful performance and design execution wise but Acura's look more buttoned down compared to G35/TL,TSX material wise. Cost cutting at Nissan is much more visible to the average untrained eye than Honda/Acura. But, both these cars are leaps better than the new Pontiac(designed for action) 5 series and taxi/police cruiser in Europe E class. Now the new GS just reeks of quality in&out but that's no surprise given their standards. The others on list are pretty much irrelevant market share wise other than those cheering for GM to somehow prevent Toyota from putting them outta business. You can still get that $60K STS for $42K now with the GM club card dicount to all.
  • cmybimmergocmybimmergo Posts: 265
    Hey, you're killing us. What's "meh"???
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    This is 3 times now. A request for "meh."
    Inquiring minds want to know.
    I cannot sleep tonight without the meaning of "MEH!" :surprise:
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Haha, I really didnt think it was that complicated.

    "Meh" (or "eh") is the reaction one might make to something that is not impressive, average, etc. (See: Acura RL) This phrase may be accompanied by a shrug of the shoulders.
  • cmybimmergocmybimmergo Posts: 265
    "Eh" I know. "Feh" I also know. But obviously "meh" is a new one on at least two of us (I thought maybe it was an anagram, but couldn't come up with anything logical).

    Now, who knows what "salty mashed potatoes" means?
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Please. You guys are killing me. I have enough trouble concentrating on the cars.
    I will drive a GS300 today because from the reviews, it seems to have better steering and brakes than the GS430, if you can believe it.
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    Didn't you guys see Monty Python's Holy Grail???

    "We are the Knights who say.....Meh!!"

    Okay, back to my pint o' Guinness.

    Lexusguy--how many times have you driven the RL?
  • cmybimmergocmybimmergo Posts: 265
    That was a reference to post #2543. No one I've asked knows what it means.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Posts: 341
    I do not like the center portion of the dash, nor the placement of the "joystick"

    The placement of the "joystick" is perfect! I rest my right arm on the console and my wrist on the gear shift and my hand is in perfect position to work the joystick. Where would you put it that could possibly be better??
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    In my opinion the "joystick" is too low; way below the level I feel comfortable dropping my eyes while driving. Of course with time and experience using it, this will probably improve - but from limited experience and unfamiliarity it seems too low to me.

    BTW - I used quotes on "joystick" because I hesitate to use i-drive (even pseudo). ;)
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Posts: 341
    In my opinion the "joystick" is too low; way below the level I feel comfortable dropping my eyes while driving.

    But there is no reason to drop your eyes. Why would you need to look at the joystick? I just reach over and place my hand on it - I never look at it while driving.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    We the Knights who say "nee!" There are no Knights who say meh, that I can find.

    Thankfully the Meh issue is over, I have been pondering that -- trying to figure out the TLA (three letter acronym).

  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    "The Knights Who Say Meh!" are a mysterious and select few who are known to convene around the Edmunds roundtable. Many seek the LPS grail, but just a handful are chosen for this noble calling.
  • mexibecmexibec Posts: 114
    That article is also online:

    I personally think that it's a good article with fair reviews. It saved me some time while looking for my next car (which turned out to be the M45, and what a car indeed...) But keep one thing in mind: the BMW being reviewed is the 530 (not the 545) and the MB is the E350 (not the E500), because of their price tags. If that's not much of an issue for you to pay premiums for those cars (BMW & MB) and performance is high in your list, they may end up your top choices.
  • chef_jmrchef_jmr Posts: 41

    That was my response to "newaudilover" trying to stir up controversy. It means nothing, except more of a "Seinfield-ian" response to #2533 & 2534 in response markcincinnati's "What's for dinner?" comment. "newaudilover's" demeanor was "salty" and I wanted mashed potatoes for dinner, with meatloaf. No offense given.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I've driven the RL once, for about a half hour. When I pulled into the Acura lot, the first thing I saw was lots of RLs. Maybe 12-14 of them, and this is just the front lot. There may have been more around back. Not really a good sign. When my wife and I went to look at the MDX, the same dealer told us that the tester was all they had, and people were clamoring to buy that for as much as $4-5K OVER sticker! Clearly nobody is clamoring to buy an RL. Anyway, as some others have said, it feels like a big Accord. Maybe if Infiniti was still peddling the old M, I might find the RL more interesting. But they arent, and their car is so good that it makes the RL and GS look like last generation cars.

    The GS300 has no VDIM, and I dont think it has the GS430's E-brakes, either. Not sure on that one. Chances are it probably will handle better than the 430 though. I think Edmunds mentioned that in their original first drive.
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