Chevy Silverado Hybrid Pickup
GM Delivers First Full-Size Hybrid Pickup
By JOHN PORRETTO
AP Auto Writer
May 3, 2004, 1:33 PM EDT
DETROIT -- General Motors Corp. delivered the industry's first full-size hybrid pickup Monday to Miami-Dade County, one of 50 such vehicles expected to be added to the county's fleet.
The trucks feature a V-8 engine and four-speed automatic transmission coupled with hybrid technology that delivers 10 percent to 12 percent better fuel economy than GM's conventional half-ton pickups.
GM made the delivery of the Chevrolet Silverado on Monday at a conference in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. Miami-Dade County plans to receive the remainder of the extended-cab hybrid pickups later this month.
....For the full article, see
http://www.greenwichtime.com/business/investing/sns-ap-gm-hybrid-- pickup,0,5412379.story?coll=sns-ap-investing-headlines
By JOHN PORRETTO
AP Auto Writer
May 3, 2004, 1:33 PM EDT
DETROIT -- General Motors Corp. delivered the industry's first full-size hybrid pickup Monday to Miami-Dade County, one of 50 such vehicles expected to be added to the county's fleet.
The trucks feature a V-8 engine and four-speed automatic transmission coupled with hybrid technology that delivers 10 percent to 12 percent better fuel economy than GM's conventional half-ton pickups.
GM made the delivery of the Chevrolet Silverado on Monday at a conference in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. Miami-Dade County plans to receive the remainder of the extended-cab hybrid pickups later this month.
....For the full article, see
http://www.greenwichtime.com/business/investing/sns-ap-gm-hybrid-- pickup,0,5412379.story?coll=sns-ap-investing-headlines
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"The GM hybrid pickups feature four 120-volt, 20 amp electrical auxiliary power outlets under the rear seat of the cab and in the pickup bed that can accommodate up to four accessories while driving or when parked. With this auxiliary generator capability, the truck's generator can operate when the truck is parked without a key in the ignition and can be used to power anything from tools at a construction site to appliances at a campsite.
In the event of a power outage, the hybrid Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra pickups could power tools or appliances for up to 32 hours non-stop. This design shuts the engine down before the tank is emptied, leaving enough gas to drive to a station for refueling. All power supply circuits are protected by a ground fault detection system to prevent overloads and short circuits."
Using the truck as an auxilliary generator is an interesting angle...
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That means the hybrid could also get those extra 2 MPG by sticking to the speed limit & etc.
I think this points out a possibility with the upcoming hybrids - the heavier the car, the less advantage is given by the hybrid technology. The Highlander and Accord may not be as fuel efficient in real world driving as people are assuming, due to the weight factor alone. For the highlander, one must also factor in the poor c/d.
Just for comparison, let's look at a vehicle like my Sentra which got 40 MPG on my last tank of gas. 300 miles/week, $2/gal... that's 7.5 gals/week, $15 times 52 = $780, a savings of only $78 over the course of a year.
The point is, you're always going to find a raw number that looks SMALL. "only 1.5 mpg gain" or "only $78/year", but that doesn't change the fact that 10% is a significant number. Also, that mileage is on top of the suggested "sticking to the speed limit and keeping their cars tuned, and tires inflated".
I don't understand how a 10% mileage increase can be considered an "embarrassment".
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The displacements on the two vehicles are completely different. The Chevy has a V8. It is never going to be as efficient as a V4; it has twice the cylinders and probably more than twice the displacement. Driving the two vehicles on an EPA test stand won't help the engine size.
Additionally, I have not yet read if GM is using a drive that is pure electric until a certain miles per hour, or is like the Honda IMA. The IMA will use those larger cylinders from startup. I think that Ford is using the Toyota method.
Generator engines are not regulated. I read once that those commercial Honda generators pollute as much as 4 SUVs.
Having the generator as part of the truck also elminates using the resources to make a generator, lessens the weight load in the truck, and frees up space in the cargo area.
I think the electrical side of these is very limited for propulsion purposes. I read about it somewhere, but it's nothing like the Prius/Escape type hybrids that are forced to rely on very small gas engines when the batteries are expired. While the chances of draining the batteries on a Prius/Escape will likely be slim in normal driving, it would occur very quickly on a truck that was towing or hauling a large load. So if you put a undersized gas motor on the Silverado along with full-bore hybrid technology, the downside would be it would make a terrible truck.
While I agree with yoru math, you start from a very questionable assumption,
Namely that the EPA alleged 15 mpg will be the REAL Mpg this big truck will obtain.
Have you seen any serious road tests that produced a Real Mpg Number for the Silverado Hybrid?
I have not. And tests like the 6-mile loop they did on the EScape Hybrid, driving totally unrealistically to get the highest possible MPG, are NOT serious tests.
If experience with the Prius and the Honda Hybrids is any Lesson,
the REAL MPG of the truck should be quite different, and less, than the EPA alleged MPG.
In addition, if the truck operates in cold weather, forget about it, all the benefits of the hybrid will evaporate.
BUT most important:
THE IDEAL Engine for any truck or large SUV is a DIESEL, a MODERN Diesel, with its huge torque at useful low RPM.
Unfortunately the big 3 charge $4000 extra for these diesels and few people drive them.
I have seen a Diesel that would make a Ddge Durango get 30 MPG Highweay, vs almsot HALF that with its primitive V-8.
What's being missed in all this conversation is the cumulative benefit of having hybrid engines on high volume vehicles.
No.
What is really missed is how Ecxpensive Hybrids are to produce, and how LITTLE are the benefits.
One can save just as much gas by driving with the tires properly inflated, avoiding sudden acceleration etc.
When the Prius and the Civic Hybrids came out, they cost $10,000 MORE than they sold for.
Toyota claims now that it can produce the prius at a "profit", but I do not yet buy that.
I suspect that they do not include the huge R&D costs on the vehicle cost.
You can think abnout it and see for yourself:
WHY did the Hybrids fail miserably in EUROPE, where gas ius $5.60 -$5.30 a gallon in the UK and Germany, respectively?
WHY are half new car sales DIESELS, Modern Diesels, NOT your father's Oldsmobile Horrible Diesels, Running on Extra-clean Diesel Fuel, the ultra-low Sulfur variety?
The collective benefit of a 10% fuel "saving" on a volume product like fullsize pickups far outweighs the offsets produced by placing hybrids on low volume relatively efficient compact vehicles.
I am not at all sure that the EPA claim of 10% is an accurate one. IF past hybrid mog is any guide, the REAL LLIFE MPG should be much less, almost Eliminating the benefit of the hybrid. And then you are saddled only with the cost, the expencise repairs and replacements, etc. Good luck..
As for the diesels, the price premiums dissuade high purchase rates.
These premiums are thrust upon the Diesels only HERE in the US by the GREEDY automakers. It is a short-sighted and WRONG policy. In Europe, there is virtually no such premium.
These premiums are thrust upon the Diesels only HERE in the US by the GREEDY automakers. It is a short-sighted and WRONG policy. In Europe, there is virtually no such premium.
Not exactly, the only diesels available in the trucks are heavy-duty nearly over-the-road diesels. Far overkill for the average 1/2 ton truck, that's a fact. The diesel offered by VW in the TDI is about $1,000 more than the base 2.0L gas motor. It's nearly identical in cost to the turbo-charged gas motor. Except on resale value where the diesel is worth thousands more than either gasser. You'll also get the vast majority of the premium back when you sell a diesel pickup. The new Passat TDI is within a couple hundred bucks of the base turbo-gas engine and less than the V6.
These premiums are thrust upon the Diesels only HERE in the US by the GREEDY automakers. It is a short-sighted and WRONG policy. In Europe, there is virtually no such premium.
Not exactly, the only diesels available in the trucks are heavy-duty nearly over-the-road diesels. Far overkill for the average 1/2 ton truck, that's a fact.
The diesel in the huge Ford Excursion allws it to almost double its very poor MPG, but costs $4000 extra. If you do a lot of miles, it is a good tradeoff. But not if you don;t.
The diesel offered by VW in the TDI is about $1,000 more than the base 2.0L gas motor. It's nearly identical in cost to the turbo-charged gas motor. Except on resale value where the diesel is worth thousands more than either gasser.
I agree VW prices its diesels resasonably, they got far higher resale value, plus they are probably not as unreliable as non-diesel VWs. SO if I bought a VW, I'd only buy a Diesel.
new Passat TDI is within a couple hundred bucks of the base turbo-gas engine and less than the V6.
If one does quite a few miles, family trips etc, the Passat Diesel Wagon isi hard to beat, and I bet it can tow as much or more than the more expensive v6 passat too.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_news.shtml
Not an issue because the same engine is used regardless of hybrid or other. It's a very light hybrid system that mainly is only in use at very low speeds and for idling. I doubt you'll see any mpg change on the highway in real life (long trips). The EPA highway cycle is NOT just driving on the highway at 65mph, it's a warm start-up, lower speed driving, then some higher speeds. That's why many cars will beat the EPA on long highway only trips. My Tahoe regularly hits 20mpg on long highway legs.
There's also no Chevy with the 5.3L V8 (used in the hybrid) rated to tow 10,000# anyway, lol! Somewhere around 7500#, which is a lot of work for the 5.3L anyway. I keep my Tahoe around 5,000# and it does the job. Very aggravating though when I'm used to pulling 15,000# easier with a diesel.
Curious?
Why never a Dodge? Is a Dodge unreliable?
Not at all. They refuse to give into big corporations on fleet sales. As Sebring95 pointed out Ford usually gives the biggest discount. It all has to do with dollars. I am sure to Exxon or BP a 3/4 ton truck is just that, no matter who makes it. They go for the bottom dollar. If Chevy or Dodge would buckle under they would get the sales.
Exactly. We were buying between 700-900 cars, 300 vans, 300 pickups, 85 medium-duty chassis per year, and if you can save $50 per unit you'll do it as long as the operational costs are similar. The operational and resale was always better on the toyotas/hondas, but the upfront cost was many thousands higher which would never materialize in overall savings. Same thing though on the 1/2 tons, fuel burn can be an issue and if one model gets significantly better mpg, it can correlate to cheaper operating costs and give you an advantage. At the time I was involved, chevy trucks weren't any more efficient than the Fords. However, I would think now with the V8's, GM probably already has an upperhand in efficiency. Another 10% with the hybrid system could be significant. My Tahoe was rated 1-2mpg higher than the Expedition was when we were shopping. Add another 1.5mpg and you've got a couple thousand dollars savings over a 100k miles service life. Significant when you've got 2000 trucks!
I wouldn't take this truck even if it was $2,000 less when they want people to volunteer to pay more for it.
Is the warranty at least 100k miles on the hybrig stuff?
How will anyone even know what benefit they are receiving... unless they only drive on the highway, since there is a ZERO percent improvement for high-speed cruising.
The auto-stop ability is completely worthless unless you actually stop. And because this type of "hybrid" lacks the ability to contribute to propulsion power, driving without any long stoplights won't really benefit either.
How exactly can they claim this is a "hybrid" vehicle? There wasn't even a component change from a design perspective. All they did was increase the size of the already existing battery & starter and change the way they react. All else is the same. The 3 currently available hybrids and the 2 upcoming have much, much greater differences from the traditional design.
If nothing else, the "hybrid" from GM shouldn't cost so much, since they didn't do that much.
JOHN
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Many people who work with pick ups work in areas where regular grid electric is not available.
Until now, the option was to use generators such as those made by Honda. These generators pollute much more and use more fuel than a stationary V8 auto engine. They are bulky and take up a lot of space that could be used for tools or supplies. Plus, they are frequently stolen and less reliable.
The advantage of having built in generators from both an enviromental and work perspective are obvious to those who know what pick up trucks are for.
GM already makes diesel hybrid city busses.
I imagine a lot of Silverado sales are to fleets. Most construction and agriculture operations have gone corporate. Presumably, these will always be the primary customers for large pick up trucks with built in generators.
There's no need for it to change. The current restrictions are due to diesel not being able to meet the current emission requirements.
Simply reducing the emissions is all that's needed to be allowed to sell more.
JOHN
When and if the US goes over to the cleaner diesel, diesel engines will burn cleaner.
Even the best diesel engine will produce more particulate than a comparable gas engine. The European regulators believe the particulates are acceptable considering there is less pollution generated to make the diesel fuel and, of course, there is less fuel burned over all.
My understanding is that even before Arnold became governor, CARB was looking at allowing more particulate in order to accomodate more diesels.
In short, I do not think it is as simple as you suggest.
Good idea. GM is totally re-designing their SUV & truck line in 2006. Hopefully they look better than the last few years. I had 1988, 90, & 93 Chevy PU trucks and loved them all. I don't think the hybrid will be sold to the general public, only fleet.
Also, it still only has ONE source to propel itself down the road (the gasoline engine) & therefore is not gas+electric-motivated vehicle.
trpy
"these trucks aren't actually propelled by the electricity they generate. Instead, an electric generator nestled in their transmission cases enable GM's hybrids to shut down their otherwise conventional gasoline engines while coasting or sitting at a stoplight."
So it CAN MOVE without using the gas engine and without the driver taking any action to shut the engine down (unlike a gas-only truck) and it does have an ISG (unlike a gas-only truck) and it does have two 20-amp integrated power sources in the rear (unlike a gas-only truck.)
It's great for contractors who need electric power on work sites. It was also a critical tool for the Florida hurricane season last year, when it was used to go to areas which had no power to help with things.
So although it is the LIGHTEST kind of hybrid, it's without argument a "gas electric vehicle" for sure, and last I heard, they call those "Hybrids."
“In the 2008 calendar year, they’re going to start building a full hybrid,” said Brett Smith, assistant director of manufacturing, engineering and technology at the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Mich.
http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/11073011.htm
Its good that GM is also building Hybrid though it is Mild.
Infact Toyota is also selling Mild-Hybrid in Vitz model.
Those who cannot afford Full Hybrid can atleast go for Mild Hybrid.
Its good that GM is also building Hybrid though it is Mild. "
that is exactly right, the change doesn't seem like much, but how many guys can plug a beer fridge into the back of their ford or dodge when there out hunting in the far north?
.
Salespeople are professional liars (I know...I used to be one...and saw how my coworkers would lie to make the sale). They will call a cat a "dog" if they think it will sell the product.
If all the Chevy Pickup does it turn off the engine, then that means ALL cars are hybrids, because they all have that ability (just turn the key to off when coasting to a stop).
troy
This is just plain snobbery, plain and simple. The truck is a hybrid. Deal with it.
After all, we don't use a handcrank to start our cars, do we? No, we use a battery+motor to spin up the engine. i.e. A HYBRID.
troy
Auto engine start and stop at speeds lower than 13 mph
Normal and continuous modes for onboard generator use
Energy storage module
Regenerative braking
http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/hybrid/