Yes, they start out good. Until you have to put a replacement part on them. I've been through (no lie) 4 alternators and 3 waterpumps on my F150 since I turned 70K on it. This is a mix of rebuilt or new, different parts houses, all CRAP as far as I am concerned. I can't tell you how the local mechanics hate to see me coming. I get tired of paying the same over and over for labor to have CRAP parts put in! Now, if somebody could guarantee me a good part replacement, then I'd consider this with their truck FIRST - that would be a definite selling point. Ford used to have sometype of a program like this but discontinued it back in 94 or 95. So far, no one I know offers a warranty on replacement parts past 12K or 12 months. Most of my parts die about 15K. Thankfully, the alternator is a lifetime swap, its just a pain to have to take it in (usually breaks when I need it most too). I cant fault the basic machine, just the parts, and the manufacturers for putting out such CRAP. I can THOROUGHLY understand why people get rid of their trucks about 100K, they don't want to be 100$ to death and have to endure this type of owners hell...
I agree that "some" of the imports have a higher resale when compared to like "compact" trucks. However, one thing is for sure, they start out new much much higher in price and are unaffordable "when" you do have a part to replace. 6k for an import V6 engine, 2.5k for a domestic V8 350 engine.
Now, go try and buy a used full size GM truck. Good luck finding one on a lot for more than a week and they cost almost as much as a new one. Resale on the full size domestics are landslides better than any import truck made. If you don't think this is fact, take yourself on over to the used pricing here at Edmunds. If you compare exact optioned import and a exact optioned domestic, you will see that the domestics hold their value much better if you also look at what the domestics cost up front. You are only looking at the pieces that benefit your arguement.
you've got some good points...but if you read post #160, thats what I'm harping about...If you go to Toyota, you get a geniune Toyo part which does cost a bit more but you put it in and you're ready for another 100,000 miles, instead of "the local mechanics hate to see me coming".
You got that right about the replacement parts. They run 2-3x a domestic. I ended up donating my old Corolla to a charity after I ran it into the ground...I'd have kept that car a lot longer if I could've afforded the price on the parts. One local mechanic wanted to charge me $300 for an EGR valve... I called around and got a price of $149. They were just trying to make a huge profit on the part. You are better off buying a domestic. At least you can afford to fix it if you intend on keeping it.
As for extended warranties, people buy them as they plan on keeping their vehicles. Five + years is not unheard of for an import. If you're leasing a truck, say for 3 years, what need do you have for an extended service plan? I should've bought one this time around. Its relatively cheap insurance for the first 100K especially with computer driven systems on these trannies now.
I fully agree with you. Even if you happen to be one of the few unfortunate ones that has more than their fair share of repairs on a domestic, you can usually have replaced the same part 3 or 4 times for the same money as 1 import.
Perfect example: I had a camry that loved to chew up flywheels. Very odd and unusual problem. I had never heard of imports or domestics having such a problem. At any rate, chewed up flywheels caused chewed up starters. The import starter was $120 and it was a rebuilt starter. I may still have a receipt to prove it if I dig around. A brand new domestic starter, comparable to the import one, went on a Pontiac GrandAm was $40. Lets say each of those $40 domestic starters only lasts for 80k miles (Two GrandAm's I have owned went well over 100k without any repairs), that gives me 240k miles of service for the same $120 dollar import starter. Who would really need a lifetime warranty with that comparison?
Again, I am not slamming Toyotas in any way, including price. The higher costs are largely from taxation imposed by the US to import the parts, but it is a fair and accurate comparison and one to really think hard about when determining which is more cost effective to own.
Reddogs..toughness comparison...Dodge slant six vs. Toy.End conclusion will be,They are about the same!Or Toyota vs. most truck engines made, the end conclusion will be,they are about the same.Contrary to popular belief I don't think truck manufacturers pay millions of dollars to develop engines that will fall apart and give the company a bad name.I dare say that a far greater percentage of Toyota trucks get used only as a daily commuter,than say 3/4 ton fullsize trucks.Yet when comparing the trucks this is never taken into consideration. To answer the true jest of this topic...Toyota makes trucks just as good as any other manufacturer,not better,not worse,just different. Obviously Toyota can make trucks,they have for many years,if they couldn't they wouldn't be doing it now ,huh. American manufacturers can make trucks too,if they couldn't they wouldn't have lasted in the business for so long.Who makes the best truck?They all do,and none of them do,depends on who you talk to. Just one question though,what truck does Honda make?
Neither. Again, another unfair and non-factual statement that incinuates that the domestics are in the shop more than the imports. Not true.
If you want to play that way, lets ask why it took Toyota 6 weeks to replace the head gaskets in one of my Toyota truck's and 8 weeks for the other, each done at a different Toyota dealership? That is an aweful long time to replace head gaskets! Answer: They had a list as long as a desert highway with people waiting for the exact same repair to be done. I just had to wait in line.
check out www.wardsauto.com Ford had 2 of the top 10 best engines one being the 5.4 V8 and the other was 3.9 V6,Toyota had 1 represenative being the 4 litre V8 that is in the lexus.The 4.7 V8 in the tundra is to soft they say for a truck.
Didn't mean to tweak your nose, my basic premise is, that if the mechanics only have to change it one time (with an expensive part) and it runs for another 100k, then it saves you a lot of time and expense bringing it in every 25k and having them do it over and ever (with the cheaper part). No harm intended.....
Wasn't Reddogs the one demanding statistics! Facts! Then he comes back with "6 mos in the shop" bull.
Pity. These import truck owners are all that way. They know everything, until they want to do something, plow, haul, customize or upgrade. Then it's twenty questions. Basically always the same answer. They don't make the part for Toyota yet. Doesn't fit Toyota. Voids the warranty on Toyota. But damned if they don't have reliability! To do what? You can't find one with a camper, a fifth wheel or horse trailer.
But seriously, I dont know what it cost up there to take you're truck in but down here they want to see you're credit report before they put you on the lift. And to take a day of from work, they told me 10 years ago they would give me one when Dan Marino retired, I sure hope he thinks about it soon............
Gee...I had one of my old Dodges repaired once.The part said Mopar on it,and if it was cheap I don't want to see expensive,it cost almost a hundred bucks. Seriously,you can buy cheap crap parts for anything if you look hard enough,and you can go get quality parts for anything that will last 100,000 miles. Isn't 100,000 miles when most people changed the break in oil on thier slant sixes?
Can't we get back to discussing the topic and avoid all of this hostile personal attack stuff?
I'm interested in if you had a problem with your Tundra, how it was fixed and were the repairs satisfactory. My wife is looking for a new vehicle and would be interested in a new Tundra.
She refuses to even ride in my one ton 6X6 air cooled 17 cylinder radial diesel Yugo UAV. (Urban Assault Vehicle) Which y'all know is the best vehicle on the planet.
Keep up your retarded postings! I suspect your driving people to buy Toyota. After all, who would buy anything recommended by you? Many upset silverado owners with all their problems be real mad at you now. Maybe you should post on the silverado vibration topic and try to convince them their lemons are the best trucks ever.
Evidently, your relatively new to this discussion. Rublue2 doesn't go away, it has nothing to do with stirring the pot. He has posted garbage on all Toyota topics for the better part of a year now. If I were "as bad as rublue" I'd be bothering the silverado owners topics, telling them how their trucks are crap. Everyone hates rublue and his lies, I respond because I can't stand letting his false statements pass unchecked.
As you say he has been here a while, we all know his views, and even if we didn't they are so over the top that no one would believe them anyway - so just ignore him, don't rise to the bait - without an audience he will go quiet.
I don't hate anyone enough to nominate them for that - still if you have to be a Chevy hugger it lets me off. The problem with having to hate Toyota of course is it doesn't exactly narrow the field - tee hee.
Beleive it or not I originally set out to buy a GMC/silverado. After both demo's at the chevy dealer vibrated, front dash squeaked and rattled over bumps and lots of wind noise at highway speed, I gave up on the idea. Ford was much better but had no backseat headrest(dangerous in a rear end collision)and I swear, on a stack of bibles, the interior was not perceptibly larger than the Tundra. As for Dodge....We'll just leave that one alone.
Surely you just admit the Tundra is a very nice personal-use pick-up. And, surely most of you must admit the newer GM (1999+) pickups - granted depending on all sorts of variables - have a lot of problems that may never be addressed. BUT! The Toyota is shorter, it is not as wide and if you stand back and look - just looks like a little bigger T100 with what most people would say is a very nice engine. All of this for more than the price of my bigger, stronger 1999 F-150? No - I did not think so - looked very hard at both. By the way - where does this cross-bred thing end? Pickups are supposedly designed to haul stuff. I love my F-150 with 4-doors and a really nice V-8 that gets gas mileage much better than I ever expected. But, it is still a truck. When it needs to be a truck - it works like one. The backseats are just great for occasional passenger hauling - I figure the insurance guys can figure out the headrest thing. At least the rear seat folds down and makes a great interior hauling area. For me - that's a perfect combo - hauling ability, passenger comfort, good mpg! Like I said - where does it end?
kit1404, I think that most 'have gotten to this point' due to something similar to ABM or Microsoft hate. In this case it seems to be ABA (Anything But American). I freely admit that I'm an American bigot and really, really dislike purchasing foreign products. BUT that's another forum, another place and another time.
How good is the Tundra? I think that we'll only find out for sure when there are, perhaps, a million on the road.
Maybe we should start a few topics, "IF YOU HATE , POST HERE". Then as we start approaching the million mark, some of the earliest versions of Tundra will start exhibiting whatever quirks that they will.
I would guess that the people that took delivery of the first 4,000 or 5,000 trucks will have the highest quality of build of any of the Tundras. Like Ford, Toyota ain't stupid. The probably went through the trucks, post build and looked for problems and fixed everything at the factory. Ford has a program where the building process is prototyped and this initial build quality is incredible. How this quality translates to the subsequent build runs we'll only know in about another million trucks. (Same is true with Ford.)
I am not an anti-import person. I buy the best for my money. It just so happens that the Tundra was not the best for my money at the time I bought. I won't consider the Tundra (not because it is a bad truck, mind you) until it carries the same options and is more comparible in size, tow ability, hp and torque as the big 3 options.
Just my preference and certainly not the same as everyones obviously. That's what makes this country great, don't ya think?
I had the opportunity to see a Tundra parked right next to a Silverado and an F150 was only a few spaces down. The Tundra does look a lot like an F150, I never really noticed that. It is also evident the Tundra is smaller than the Silverado and F150. I have also been branded as an "import hater, Toyota hater, HOnda hater. Not true. Not once have I ever said that their vehicles are junk, its the other way around most of the time. Fact is, I see no reason to pay the extra cash for a perceived quality/reliability advantage. I still don't see how they can say the Tundra is more reliable and better build when most of them on the road don't even have over 25K miles yet?? And by the complaints just right here at Edmunds of vibrations, electrical, transmission, brakes I guess only time will tell. I am the same way, I buy what I feel is the best value for what I need to use the vehicle for, and Toyota didn't cut it.
I would rather walk than by a truck from a country that won't even trade with the USA.I would buy foreign but not Japanese.Check out www.wards.com The Triton 5.4 V8 one of the 10 best engines in the world,Toyota's 4.7 to soft for a truck,F series 22 years #1,F series #1 outselling any truck or car in the world.800000 people wrong every year? thats how many F series are sold every year,your comments are nothing but a joke and another thing the colors in my flag don't run.
When we cut our own nose to spite our face.... Look at every car/truck objectively without bias or prejudice, choose acording to need and not because it's bigger and badder. If we start to rant about the foreign influences we better start right at the gas pump with that "foreign" oil instead of "texas tea", and that ain't gonna happen....
VEGA and CHEVETTE were the cars that would drive us into the next century and become the best sellers of all time......just the thought of all thought of all that quality steel makes my toes tingle.........
I would buy German,European.I would not buy Japanese Because they do not trade with the USA just because I care about keeping fellow americans working doesn't mean you have to,and I don't mean people working at car dealerships.
Whoa! All this anti-Japanese rhetoric scares the hell out of me, and I am branded a Honda/Toyota hater here at Edmunds. I don't hate Japanese people or their industry. What I do hate is the perceived quality/reliabiltiy advantage some blindly follow without question or research. If any of you have ever been to Japan you will see their quality of life is not that great. Goods and services are very expensive in comparisoin to the U.S. This is due to their closed economy and high tarrifs on imported goods. The people of Japan suffer from all these taxes and import tarrifs the government has put into place. I buy what I feel is the best choice for my dollar. The only country I make a point NOT to buy from is China. I'm telling you, we are going to have a conflict with the Giant we are feeding.
I agree 100%! China is the real threat. They have quietly, but quickly put more Americans out of work in the last 5 years than all other countries combine. Look at anything you buy from Target, Wal-mart, K-mart or if your from Arlen, TX...Megalowmart. 80-90 percent of the products are made in China by virtual slaves. There's alot more money made in all these everyday items than vehicles. What's China doing with all this profit? Buying and building weapons! Specifically intercontinental ballistic missiles. I've been to Japan many times. Their culture is definitely different than ours, but the people seemed decent and hard-working. If your boycotting their products your barking up the wrong bonzai tree!
To be honest with you its not that I dislike Toyota or any Japanese product I just like to support my country,I don't shop at Kmart or Walmart for those reasons that rwellbaum2 posted.
Americans, good honest Americans will continue buying foreign goods and cars because they serve their purpose. Quality cars are made in countries outside of the American shores and people buy these reliable vehicles to get them where they need to go. Foreign oil will go into the gas tank and CD's made in Hong Kong and Singapore will be played in them. Foreign goods have become a way of life and I understand the point your trying to make, but if you don't like something, fight it on it's merits and not because of prejudice. If need be, create a forum on NEWS AND VIEWS and state your case there, dont berate a car or truck because certain people made it, judge it on information derived from test data, statistics and reviews. Then you can make a honest appriasal of the vehicle and the strong and weak points on it.
I didn't berate your Tundra if anyone has berated a vehicle it has been you saying the American trucks aren't as good as your Tundra,since you are the one who asked show me the stats and reviews saying your Tundra is better than my 99 F250 XLT Light Duty 4x4 4 door supercab with the 5.4 V8, auto,3.73 limited slip.I know I paid less than you, if we are gonna use stats I know my engine is better than yours according to reviews ,I have 4 doors,I can tow more,haul more,I can plow can you? I don't see anything wrong in supporting fellow americans in what products I choose to buy and there are millions of people in this Country who feel the same way.I don't know what you do for work but the way I feel and others feel could be the reason you are working,and I'm not saying every single item I buy is American but I try to buy American if possible.
My Toyota was manufactured in America, by Americans, who earned a good wage making the car. And, there's only 27% foreign parts in the car.. the rest are domestic...so who is supporting whom in this argument???
I don't buy 'made in China' on anything, period. If you read the labels in Walmart, there are PLENTY of 'Made in USA'. Its up to you to put the merchandise down and got to another store, which isn't as convenient.
In my book, all the trucks are manufactured well. Its just personal preference as to what you buy. I bought my Corolla instead of a Prizm because I liked the interior and color options on the paint better...and got a slightly more discounted price. But the fact remains, both cars are manufactured here and someone got paid to do it. So before we go Japan-bashing, just remember that.
Your truck isn't backed by UAW workers and the people who make it make 1/3 what a UAW worker makes.Maybe we should replace you at job with someone who will make 1/3 less than you.
The domestic content label says 50% Japan, 50% others.
To qualify as domestic, 51% has to come from US.
But Toyota is more than 1% away from being a domestic, since of the remaining 50%, a portion still comes from 3rd party countries, including Mexico.
Since the engine and transmission account for more than 50% of the price of a new vehicle, this won't change for Toyota as long as the Yen continues to rise, or they shift production of those components to U.S.
In a perfect world we wouldn't need unions. However, they are one of the few organizations that look out for the worker. If companies have good employee benefits and wages it's to prevent the need for workers to unionize, not because they actually care. I think it all works out in the checks and balances. Remember the history of the unions. The lives of workers meant nothing to the money hungry industrialists. Unions were formed out of necessity and survival. Since the decline of unions in this country, our average standard of living has gone down the tubes. Less than 1% of the U.S. population controls over 50% of the money.
Then you get into that manufacturing shift to the service sector in the past couple decades. This is why unions dropped and therefore the standard of living has dropped. However, this is all relative. Anyone can make it in America and the union is irrelevant with your personal dreams and goals.
Just to add, i have worked one union job several summers and it payed for my Bachelor degree.
You misread my post above. I was representing my CAR. I bought a Toyota becuase it was 27% (on the window sticker) foreign. And yes, it was assembled by UAW workers in a plant in California. I should know, I've got a friend who works there.
Does anybody have the figures on the % of foreign parts in the other Big 3? I'd be curious to know.
Comments
However, one thing is for sure, they start out new much much higher in price and are unaffordable "when" you do have a part to replace.
6k for an import V6 engine, 2.5k for a domestic V8 350 engine.
Now, go try and buy a used full size GM truck. Good luck finding one on a lot for more than a week and they cost almost as much as a new one. Resale on the full size domestics are landslides better than any import truck made. If you don't think this is fact, take yourself on over to the used pricing here at Edmunds. If you compare exact optioned import and a exact optioned domestic, you will see that the domestics hold their value much better if you also look at what the domestics cost up front. You are only looking at the pieces that benefit your arguement.
As for extended warranties, people buy them as they plan on keeping their vehicles. Five + years is not unheard of for an import. If you're leasing a truck, say for 3 years, what need do you have for an extended service plan? I should've bought one this time around. Its relatively cheap insurance for the first 100K especially with computer driven systems on these trannies now.
Perfect example: I had a camry that loved to chew up flywheels. Very odd and unusual problem. I had never heard of imports or domestics having such a problem. At any rate, chewed up flywheels caused chewed up starters. The import starter was $120 and it was a rebuilt starter. I may still have a receipt to prove it if I dig around. A brand new domestic starter, comparable to the import one, went on a Pontiac GrandAm was $40. Lets say each of those $40 domestic starters only lasts for 80k miles (Two GrandAm's I have owned went well over 100k without any repairs), that gives me 240k miles of service for the same $120 dollar import starter. Who would really need a lifetime warranty with that comparison?
Again, I am not slamming Toyotas in any way, including price. The higher costs are largely from taxation imposed by the US to import the parts, but it is a fair and accurate comparison and one to really think hard about when determining which is more cost effective to own.
To answer the true jest of this topic...Toyota makes trucks just as good as any other manufacturer,not better,not worse,just different.
Obviously Toyota can make trucks,they have for many years,if they couldn't they wouldn't be doing it now ,huh.
American manufacturers can make trucks too,if they couldn't they wouldn't have lasted in the business for so long.Who makes the best truck?They all do,and none of them do,depends on who you talk to.
Just one question though,what truck does Honda make?
If you want to play that way, lets ask why it took Toyota 6 weeks to replace the head gaskets in one of my Toyota truck's and 8 weeks for the other, each done at a different Toyota dealership? That is an aweful long time to replace head gaskets! Answer: They had a list as long as a desert highway with people waiting for the exact same repair to be done. I just had to wait in line.
Anything else....?
Pity. These import truck owners are all that way. They know everything, until they want to do something, plow, haul, customize or upgrade. Then it's twenty questions. Basically always the same answer. They don't make the part for Toyota yet. Doesn't fit Toyota. Voids the warranty on Toyota. But damned if they don't have reliability! To do what? You can't find one with a camper, a fifth wheel or horse trailer.
Seriously,you can buy cheap crap parts for anything if you look hard enough,and you can go get quality parts for anything that will last 100,000 miles.
Isn't 100,000 miles when most people changed the break in oil on thier slant sixes?
I'm interested in if you had a problem with your Tundra, how it was fixed and were the repairs satisfactory. My wife is looking for a new vehicle and would be interested in a new Tundra.
She refuses to even ride in my one ton 6X6 air cooled 17 cylinder radial diesel Yugo UAV. (Urban Assault Vehicle) Which y'all know is the best vehicle on the planet.
Thanks!
Rich
Why can't you just ignore him and he will go away.
As you say he has been here a while, we all know his views, and even if we didn't they are so over the top that no one would believe them anyway - so just ignore him, don't rise to the bait - without an audience he will go quiet.
I think that most 'have gotten to this point' due to something similar to ABM or Microsoft hate. In this case it seems to be ABA (Anything But American). I freely admit that I'm an American bigot and really, really dislike purchasing foreign products. BUT that's another forum, another place and another time.
How good is the Tundra? I think that we'll only find out for sure when there are, perhaps, a million on the road.
Maybe we should start a few topics, "IF YOU HATE , POST HERE". Then as we start approaching the million mark, some of the earliest versions of Tundra will start exhibiting whatever quirks that they will.
I would guess that the people that took delivery of the first 4,000 or 5,000 trucks will have the highest quality of build of any of the Tundras. Like Ford, Toyota ain't stupid. The probably went through the trucks, post build and looked for problems and fixed everything at the factory. Ford has a program where the building process is prototyped and this initial build quality is incredible. How this quality translates to the subsequent build runs we'll only know in about another million trucks. (Same is true with Ford.)
Rich
Just my preference and certainly not the same as everyones obviously. That's what makes this country great, don't ya think?
If any of you have ever been to Japan you will see their quality of life is not that great. Goods and services are very expensive in comparisoin to the U.S. This is due to their closed economy and high tarrifs on imported goods. The people of Japan suffer from all these taxes and import tarrifs the government has put into place.
I buy what I feel is the best choice for my dollar. The only country I make a point NOT to buy from is China. I'm telling you, we are going to have a conflict with the Giant we are feeding.
I've been to Japan many times. Their culture is definitely different than ours, but the people seemed decent and hard-working. If your boycotting their products your barking up the wrong bonzai tree!
I don't buy 'made in China' on anything, period. If you read the labels in Walmart, there are PLENTY of 'Made in USA'. Its up to you to put the merchandise down and got to another store, which isn't as convenient.
In my book, all the trucks are manufactured well. Its just personal preference as to what you buy. I bought my Corolla instead of a Prizm because I liked the interior and color options on the paint better...and got a slightly more discounted price. But the fact remains, both cars are manufactured here and someone got paid to do it. So before we go Japan-bashing, just remember that.
To qualify as domestic, 51% has to come from US.
But Toyota is more than 1% away from being a domestic, since of the remaining 50%, a portion still comes from 3rd party countries, including Mexico.
Since the engine and transmission account for more than 50% of the price of a new vehicle, this won't change for Toyota as long as the Yen continues to rise, or they shift production of those components to U.S.
Just to add, i have worked one union job several summers and it payed for my Bachelor degree.
Does anybody have the figures on the % of foreign parts in the other Big 3? I'd be curious to know.