Diesel MiniVans

pusterracing

Does anybody know if any manufacturer is considering a diesel minivan?

forbes3

I believe Daimler Chrysler is considering selling their minivans with a diesel engine. I think it would be a smart move on their part. I would buy one in a flash. They are already available in Europe and elsewhere with the diesel.

mike91326

I've also heard talk of Chrysler considering a diesel option. However, I don't think we will see one until the 2007 model year when ULSD is the norm.

pusterracing

I also hoping that when VW returns their MiniVan/MicroBus (whatever they are calling it) that they will option it with the 1.9 or 2.0 diesel (I already own an 04 Jetta GLS TDI). I haven't heard much about the Minivan/Microbus, and nothing about whether it will have a diesel option.

I would also jump at a Grand Caravan with a diesel (providing it is not TOO much more expensinve that it's gasoline counterparts), I'm hoping that the Chrysler rumor is true.

natdman

I would LOVE to get ahold of one. I think they should shoot for 160ish HP and 275+ft-lbs torque, ~30mpg highway and ~23 mpg city, be able to tow 4000+lbs (strengthen sub-framing a little). All with a starting price of under $30k. Someone SHOULD be able to make it. I WILL buy.......

unitsup

A mercedes diesel van is available right now which is rebadged as either a Dodge Sprinter or Freightliner Sprinter. It comes as either a passenger van or cargo van. I have driven them and they are great. If you have seen any of the new small UPS vans, they are the Dodge Sprinter 140 inch wheelbase with the high roof. There are two shorter wheelbases available.

hansienna

Answers the question in posting # 1 of this forum.
     Question: IS a TALL van like the Dodge Sprinter still considered a minivan?

stever

I group them with full size vans myself. The FedEx driver I quizzed months ago didn't like his Sprinter but maybe the smaller versions drive better.

There wasn't a lot of interest in them over in Dodge Freightliner (Mercedes Sprinter).

Steve, Host

gagrice

I saw one the other day made into a conversion camper. Real nice and 22-25 mpg. They are underpowered though. I think I could live with cruising slower in a camper to get that kind of mileage, maybe.

stever

Neat - I heard that conversions were available.

I have a guide friend in Anchorage who could use one for shuttling kayakers if there's enough oomph to pull a trailer full of sea kayaks or rafts.

Steve, Host

gagrice

I will let you know when I talk to my Sister and brother-in-law. They are buying one for his contracting business in New Mexico. They live way the heck and gone into the mountains. And he has 7 kids still home to haul around. Not sure which model he settled on. I think they are very popular in Europe.

hansienna

Reliability and Economy are much more important in Europe. With cheap gas and diesel in the USA, POWER is King.
     I personally prefer the American idea of power with reasonable fuel economy. Honda provides both in the Honda Odyssey.

jimlockey

I'm driving my 4th minivan and my last. All the manufacturers are making the mininivans too large. They wind pushes them about a bit and only in ideal conditions are they ok to drive. A small 5 or 6 passenger vehicle with enough leg room for all the passengers will be fine. For example the new Ford 500 sounds like a nice size. Ford missed their chance by not adding a diesel to this car.

rsholland

Steve, the Sprinter is rated to tow 5000lb I believe.

They are definitely full-size vans, as they only come in 3/4-ton & 1-ton versions.

Bob

ahous

"Around the world, the Chrysler Group currently offers diesel powertrain options in the Jeep Cherokee (Liberty in North America), Jeep Grand Cherokee, Chrysler PT Cruiser and Chrysler Voyager minivans. In Western Europe, diesel-powered vehicles comprise 56 percent of Chrysler Group's total sales volume."

M-B also markets the Vito minivan, in several configs (including a camper).

A diesel minivan (running on B100) is exactly what I want. (An Ody with Honda's new iCTDi motor would be my first choice.) What kind of campaign would it take to get any mfr to bring them over here?

pusterracing

I'm hoping that the manufacturers will start implementing the diesel more often for our market. I just got rid of an Expedition because it was the absolute bare minimum to tow my travel trailer (no hills) and replaced it with an F350 Crew Cab with a 6.0L Diesel. We had looked into the diesel Excursion (don't remember seeing a diesel option on the "super large" GM SUV models), but I wanted a truck to keep my options open in the future. So, now out of the 3.5 vehicles (1/2 vehicle is a 150CC Honda Scooter that gets ~70mpg) two of them are diesel. I have a Jetta TDI, the F350 and a Mitsu Galant. I also have two small children and might like a third. If that happens I want to get rid of the Galant and get a diesel minivan. I'm not sure why Chrysler doesn't offer it as an option on the Town and Country or the Caravan.

I'm all for some sort of campaign to get the manufacturers to offer their diesels here.

mrnimmo

I keep hearing that Vito/Viano will replace the Caravan. Anyone have any links?

odman

I was just in the Ottawa airport where they have a diesel PT Cruiser on display. These sell in Europe and would be a good idea here.

dudleyr

A diesel minivan would be great. The Sharan comes to mind.

moparbad

The PT has a diesel that is OK, not exactly cutting edge. Would be better if it was the lastest technology.

acerguy

VW has the great looking Touran with a 140PS 2.0l TDI engine. I honestly would walk right down and buy one I think if they would only bring it over....wishful thinking I know......

dudleyr

Add one more to that list.

mrnimmo

One can buy a 7-9 seat minivan with a 4 cyl diesel that gets 35-40 mpg in every other market in the world.

Now that sulphur is disappearing from our diesel, where's mine?

mrnimmo

This would be nice with the 2.0 diesel

http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/generic_editorial.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@105841380-@&BV_EngineID=cccdaddefkiflhfcfngcfkmdfkidffi.0&navRoot=toyota_root&portal=- - null&edname=Previa+Intro&catname=%2ftoyota_root%2fTopNav%2fNew+Cars&zone=Zone+PREVIA&menui- - d=112360

mrnimmo

Combined fuel economy with the 2.0 manual 39.2!!!!!!

mrnimmo

http://tinyurl.com/5gzbt

mrnimmo

http://tinyurl.com/4krhb

32 mpg with the 2.0 diesel.

mrnimmo

with 1.9 TDI?

http://www.volkswagen.de/vwcms_publish/vwcms/master_public/brand_portal/de30/models/multiv- an.html

f111d

Test drove a Liberty Diesel luv that torque! What a beauty to drive. DCX is missing the boat that motor in the mini-van would make any the of gas v-6's options feel like a slug. Cub weight on the Liberty I believe close to that of the vans, it's almost the same as a Grand Cherokee. That Liberty has a robust chasis underneath. But I need the interior for the kids.

hansienna

Most citizens of the United States do NOT like diesel powered vehicles. The obnoxious noise and odor of diesel is not worth the money saved in fuel costs until fuel gets much more expensive than it now is.
I would NOT buy a diesel powered minivan, pickup, or sedan. :sick:

pusterracing

And that is what I love about this country......freedom of choice. I would love to see a diesel minivan...maybe a Town and Country with the 2.7L from the Liberty CRD or the diesel from the Sprinter, a VW Minivan with the 2.0L TDI-PD....anything would be welcomed....in MINIVAN form (the sprinter doesn't count). I'm still waiting for something like this to be offered for those of us who are big proponents of diesels.

Most citizens of the United States do NOT like diesel powered vehicles.

That's a mighty bold statement. You have polled them?

The obnoxious noise and odor of diesel

Obviously you have not been around any of the late model (99-present) VW 1.9 TDIs, 2.0 TDIs or the MB CDIs. From 10 feet away you wouldn't know they were a diesel, and the "noise" they emit is not much, if any, louder than a gas engine...it just sounds a little different (like a sewing machine). And ODOR? These cars have very little, if any, discernable odor these days

BTW...Mitsu Galant was replaced by a Passat TDI when it was totalled in Feb......

-PR-

03 Ford F350 SuperCrew KingRanch 6.0L Powerstroke
04 VW Jetta GLS TDI
05 VW Passat GLS TDI

gagrice

Most citizens of the United States do NOT like diesel powered vehicles.

I would bet that Toyota & Honda would love to sell their very fine diesels in the USA. They probably don't want to buck the plethora of misinformation that is out about modern diesel cars. It is only very recently that gas cars were able to brag that they were not more dangerous pollution wise than diesel cars. Gas is still less environmental friendly as far as GHG. Europeans have their choice of hybrids or diesels. the UK sold only about 1000 Prius last year. In a country that gas and diesel are both about $8 per gallon, diesel is the fuel of choice.

hansienna

Aha, exactly why so few Americans will buy a diesel powered vehicle. Our fuel is still CHEAP here in the United States compared to Europe. (Average $2.24 per gallon 87 octane vs $8 is cheap).
Americans will not endure the noise, smell, extra maintenance costs, extra cost for purchase, etc. to drive a diesel as long as fuel remains so cheap here.

pusterracing

Our fuel is still CHEAP here in the United States

Relatively speaking, yes, but look at the media....everyday there is something about the rising costs of fuel and the public, in general, is not happy about how high our gas prices are.

Americans will not endure the noise, smell

Didn't we just cover this?......

extra maintenance costs,

Such as? Oil Change $60 every 10K miles (with synthetic) vs $21 every 3K miles (with conventional oil) for a gasser. The gasser can use synthetic, but at a price premium. So, oil changes are a wash.

Everything else, maintenance wise is comparable..brakes, belts, etc. Gotta do that on all cars. Oh, and that diesel will go 300-400K miles......

extra cost for purchase

The extra cost is recouped in approximately 36-40K miles (depending on price negotiated) in fuel savings alone, not to mention the higher resale value due to the longevity of the engine (see above)

drive a diesel as long as fuel remains so cheap here.

Today I paid $2.15 for diesel...regular unleaded at the same pump was $2.24...so I saved $0.09 per gallon AND I get 18MPG average more than a comparably equipped Jetta with a 2.0L gas.

If diesel isn't for you, then that is fine and I respect that, but your arguments against diesel are all subjective and not factually based....

-PR-

dudleyr

A diesel minivan would be very welcome to me.

docsavage

There is one factor that diesels can offer that gasoline cars cannot - freedom from the terrorist bast***s in the middle east. Yes, we pay a lot less for fuel in America, but what about the human cost? I am working on setting up biodiesel production and running diesel vehicles so I can tell the Arabs to blow off. If buying a diesel meant freedom to conservative America, you can bet they wouldn't stay on the car lots long!

bhill2

I too would love to see us independent of Arab oil (or anyone else's oil for that matter). Logic tells me that we would never be able to produce enough biodiesel ourselves to satisfy all of our needs. Think of the appetites of the bazillion big-rigs that are out there every day. I do remember reading someone saying that we could do it by growing oil-producing algae! Sounds a little weird, but it if would work I'd be willing to convert my freaking swimming pool to a nursery for the little suckers. Meanwhile, keep up the good work. Every gallon of biodiesel is a gallon of independence.

corvette

I have no connection with this company, but:
http://www.changingworldtech.com/

Maybe not this specific technology, but in the long run, we need some form of technological innovation (cold fusion?) to solve our energy problems. (I am typing this on a PowerBook that uses between 18-25 watts of power under normal operation, compared to 150+ for my Dell desktop with flat-panel monitor).

I applaud the advances in diesel technology, but am somewhat dismayed at the diesel Liberty--I was expecting highway mileage in the low, low 30's. I'm not sure that a diesel minivan would get much better mileage than the 28 highway of the Ody Limited with its cylinder deactivation, although I wonder if cylinder deactivation can be adapted to (turbo)diesels.

gagrice

I'm not sure that a diesel minivan would get much better mileage than the 28 highway of the Ody Limited with its cylinder deactivation

According to owners of the above mentioned Odyssey, the mileage is not very good. I think an Odyssey with Honda's new diesel would do much better than their new gas engine. Plus have more torque for hauling that heavy vehicle up hills.

mrnimmo

Your opinion is typical of the average Uhmerican who thinks Cummins diesel or remembers Aunt Ruth's Oldsmobile with the 350 disaster diesel in it.

>Americans will not endure the noise, smell,

You obviously haven't been around a modern diesel, or you just aren't aware that you have been. Watch for those MB's with CGI or VW's with TDI badges. The fact that they are diesel is imperceptible.

>extra maintenance costs, extra cost for purchase, etc. to drive a diesel as long as fuel remains so cheap here.

Diesels have much lower maintenance costs because they do not need tuneups. No plugs, wires, rotors, caps etc to worry about. And VW/MB at least charge very little for their TDI/CGI engines.

Admittedly the fullsize truck diesels are expensive, but towing 10,000 lbs doesn't come cheap.

BTW Hans, I love Toyota vans. I currently drive a Previa and had one of the old square Toyota vans years ago. However, I won't buy another until an economical engine option is offered. I'm NOT driving around in a V6 that gets 15-19 mpg in town. (I'm also less than impressed with the low rider lack of ground clearance-- even speed bumps are a challenge-- and mommiemallvan interiors on them these days. Give me utility.) My money and I can wait.

dudleyr

Why can't Toyota (or anybody) offer two different sized vans (I'm not counting the truck based vans). The old Toyota was quite versatile and had a 4-cyl engine to boot. How come it makes sence to have a half dozen SUV's but only 1 minivan in a lineup.

rpinto1

Well, I just test drove the Dodge Sprinter passenger van (Diesel of course) for the first time, and will most likely purchase one. The engine did not have excessive noise, and the power was better than expected. The trade-off for fuel economy is more than justified. My only concern is the diesel engine performance (cold starts) up in the Northeast (Upstate NY) in the winter, as the Sprinter will not fit in my garage. And yes, I do need more than a minivan, with 5 small children.

mrnimmo

Good luck. I've been eyeing them pretty closely myself. Having trouble with the styling and the below industry standards seating. If it were easily removeable, I'd have less trouble with the purchase.

Regarding cold starts, Mercedes has been doing the diesel thing for a while now. They know what they are doing and Germany gets pretty darn cold in the winter. We're not talking a GM gas 350 with a new set of "diesel" heads slapped on. That CGI is state of thar art and doesn't even need a glow plug for cold starts.

mrnimmo

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new_cars/touran

Very nice. It gets more mpg than one of those tiny hyperid battery cars if they are running AC.

http://www.freep.com/money/autoreviews/phelan3e_20050203.htm

http://www.smartmoney.com/consumer/index.cfm?story=20031126

http://hybridbuzz.blogspot.com/2004/10/latest-update.html

sutekh1

I have a 2002 Grand Caravan. Totally out of warranty. I was wondering if it would be possible to import a diesel engine from EU and simply swap out the gasser? Let's say getting one wouldn't be a problem, is it basically plug & play for a good mechanic or will this open a can of worms? I just got an '05 VW Golf TDI and converted to a Greasecar system. It is such a joy to get 45mpg on free fuel, I would be happy to go through some hassle and expense to convert my van.

preferdiesels

Please tell me more about the "greasecar system". I have an '04 Passat TDI.

leadfoot_ed

I hope this one makes it across the pond sooner or later. I converted the power figures. 140 hp and 265 lbs./ft. of grunt. Oh yeah, and a 6-speed manual, too!

http://www.japanesecarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050823.006

leadfoot_ed

Here's a pic of the engine:

http://www.japanesecarfans.com/photos.cfm/photoid/3041124.001/pageview/photo/photo/1057/si- ze/large/mazda/1.html

hansienna

DaimlerChrysler offers 2 brands:

# 1. Dodge Caravan and Dodge Grand Caravan.

# 2. Chrysler T&C ( base, no letter or name = clone of Caravan) and
Chrysler T&C LX, Touring, and Limited.

I agree with you. Why don't Toyota and Honda? :confuse: They make a smaller size for markets other than the USA/Canada.

cpmom

any diesel minivans avail in US now?
thanks!

hansienna

NOT according to everything I have read. I am personally glad as diesel fumes have an objectionable odor and visually pollute the air. :sick: