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Tax credits / incentives for hybrids?

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    why the complaining about consumers' income bracket when this is needed in order to make a desireable product successful?

    Not as much complaining as questioning the fairness of it. Why should a person buying a Hybrid Accord that gets 30 mpg, get a tax break when someone buying a VW Jetta TDI that gets 48 mpg, does not get the tax break. Or anyone buying a SULEV II or PZEV vehicle should be eligible. I put it in the same calssification as the tax break on Hummers and over 6000 vehicles that was available in 2003. Not that there are not hundreds of unfair taxes and tax breaks.

    PS
    You must drive a lot of miles. That $2000 you are planning on saving in a year would take you 40,000 miles in a Prius or HCH at todays gas prices.
  • tomslycktomslyck Posts: 70
    Speaking for us wealthy people....tax breaks are always used when the government wants to promote something (e.g. home ownership). The fact that the government wants to promote something that saves gas and has less emissions doesn't bother me. The community will benefit by reducing the demand for gas and helping to clean up the air. (Does the deisel improve air quality?)

    My wife is an elementary school teacher in the inner city of Los Angeles. She plans to put on her diamonds and fur coats and then drive it to her job teaching gang member wanna-bes. A break on the taxes won't hurt. This summer we might drive it to Alaska to hunt baby seals.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    The community will benefit by reducing the demand for gas and helping to clean up the air.

    A bicycle does a lot more to help the environment and they do not get any tax breaks. Why pick out one small item when many things help as much. I don't get any breaks for planting all the trees on our property that suck up the CO2 put out by all cars including the Hybrids. I could go on. The point is that it looks like more corporate welfare to me. Without that little break maybe people would negotiate a little harder and get the prices of hybrids down where they belong. Our tax money is just ending up in Japan with that incentive.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    quote gagrice-"A bicycle does a lot more to help the environment and they do not get any tax breaks."-end quote

    There are not "different types of bicycles" which pollute less or more. There is that distinction in automobiles." Most people cannot commute on bikes, but they can choose a commuter car which is more or less efficient. Why not urge people to buy the cleaner, more efficient cars? Different rules can apply. :)

    quote gagrice-"The point is that it looks like more corporate welfare to me."-end quote

    I am not a corporation. Toyota or Ford get no money for the tax break I EARNED by spending more upfront for a cleaner, more efficient car. I EARNED that tax break, they did not, therefore I get the tax benefit, not them. :D

    quote gagrice-"Our tax money is just ending up in Japan with that incentive."-end quote

    How, exactly, does our "tax money" end up in Japan? I fail to make that connection..... :D
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    How, exactly, does our "tax money" end up in Japan? I fail to make that connection

    Very easy. It is a justification to pay more for the vehicle. Without that incentive some would wait and try to get the car for less money. If one person pays $20000 for his hybrid and with the understanding he will get about $500 back on his taxes, and buyer 2 waits until he can buy the car for $19,500, they both paid the same price. Buyer number one gave his $500 tax incentive to the automaker. I think it is bad policy just as I felt writing off the over 6000 lb vehicles in one year was bad policy. They are write-offs for the wealthy. Did you get the write-off on your used HCH? Some fat cat got it and you got the car a bit cheaper. The tax payers subsidizing the automakers.
  • Sometimes I sense a general attitude of some "threaders" that have a bone to pick with hybrid owners (Prius in particular). We don't all make 100 thousand bucks. Where ever that came from was over stated and an exaggeration. If you wanna believe that ....go ahead, if it'll give you some kind of satisfaction. Why..I don't know. I make 33K on retirement and I have total satisfaction in the Prius.
    As for tax breaks...Why not give an incentive for people that take the challange to improve our plight when it comes to being "green & thrifty" instead of "hoggish & foolish."
    Sometimes I sense Prius envy! "If I can't have one I'll sabatage them!"
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    We don't all make 100 thousand bucks.

    I am sure all Prius owners don't make $100k to $150k. It was Toyota bragging on the demographics of the Prius, not any of the posters. It is not just Prius buyers that I feel should not get the incentive. It is the Hummer buyers that got that full write-off in one year that was not right either. It had the desired affect in that they sold lots of big PU trucks and SUVs. On a $65k SUV it was a $24k tax savings in one year instead of spread out over 6 years. If you had a business you were crazy not to buy a new vehicle.

    Now, how does a HAH benefit the environment anymore than a Toyota Corolla that is SULEV II rated and gets 36 mpg combined? The Corolla puts out less GHG than the Accord Hybrid. It is more environmentally friendly yet the HAH fat cat buyer gets the tax incentive and the lower income Corolla buyer does not. It is not equitable and should either be administered fairly or done away with. It is not Prius envy, it is wanting things done fairly. There are 13 cars that are greener than the HAH and only three get the incentive. I have talked to my Congressman about it. Maybe you should also. Giving tax incentives to people that buy cars that are clean and efficient may have merit. Set a mileage and emissions standard and any car that fits in that category is eligible. The fact that hybrids & diesel cars do not pay their fair share of the road tax is being assessed. Look for legislation in the future that is not that friendly toward the high mileage cars. You may be trading your Prius for a Hummer :-)
  • When hell freezes over seems appropriate to your suggestion on buying a ..."Testosterone Buggy". Hummers are like Harley Riders (most of which think "if I can annoy everyone with my obsessivlely loud pipes, then I've achieved my testosterone rush." Hummers just do it with SIZE & Weight & Gas Guzzling.
    Any legislation to penalize hybrids is ludicrous. Simply by weight they do little if any harm to roadways as opposed to the forementioned monsters and the like (Suburbans).
    YOU SAY: "Giving tax incentives to people that buy cars that are clean and efficient MAY have merit"

    I SAY: Thats the whole point to this forum....Bringing back some sense of focus to what we have as a RESPONSABILITY to what we drive as fossil fuels become critical TODAY. You have noticed that problem..haven't you? I HOPE!!
    Manufacturers frantically slash prices in an effort to unload the gas guzzlers with all kinds of gimmics. When they should have had some sense of fore sight to the problems that were just around the corner.

    Last Point: Price of hybrids have been an arguable point to some. I say you have to pay the piper when it comes to new technology. Toyota gave great effort to producing a hybrid that was still affordable to most car buyers. Now it's up to the government agencies to get off their stagnant fannys and help steer america down the path of "GREEN & EFFICIENT".
    Gas Guzzlers= :lemon: 'S
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    ."Testosterone Buggy". Hummers

    I believe it was you that pointed out that the majority of Hummers were driven by the ladies. I don't know but maybe they are all feminist? hmmmm

    Before you put a crown on Toyota you should remember that they are as we post building a new Tundra plant in San Antonio. They have yet to start building a Prius plant in the USA their largest market for the Prius. They plan to double the sales of Tundra PU trucks to 250k units per year in the USA. I would say they are no different than the Big 3 trying to sell the high dollar vehicles. If they have inventory left over at the end of the MY they will unload them just as you are seeing GM & Ford doing. In the meantime they make Big Bucks on those vehicles. How many of the 1,800,000 plus full size PU trucks did GM & Ford get a big profit from? That may be all that is keeping them afloat beside their banking interests.

    Back to incentives. If the Feds offer a fair and equitable tax break for any car that is environmentally friendly that would be OK. I don't think it would sway anyone to buy one that was not already of a mind to do so. It did not change my mind on my latest vehicle purchase. The only thing that would have brought me to the hybrid table is something that I would consider useful. Toyota and Honda started out that direction and completely veered off into street racer & hot rod SUV land. There are too many street racers now. We did not need more of them. I suppose you are going to tell me that the RX400h is a great vehicle for the average American Family? Right!
  • O.K. Gary, I'll admit there excesses in the industry (even Hybrids) but the point is ...Honda & Toyota started and led the way inh the hybrid field.

    As to all the women driving Hummers...Well really now! Who do you think bought them? He's driving the "beater" to work while his honey gets to putt-putt around town. It reminds me of a humorous thing I once saw while attending college in Terre Haute... A little old(musta been 80+) gray haired lady driving a slick red-hot Corvette(convertable no less). Nothing wrong, mind you, just unique and totally out of sorts.

    Are Toyota and Honda getting it right? I think so. They will incorperate the "new technology of hybrids" into their full line eventually or most of it.

    Getting back to incentives I would hope that GREEN & FUEL EFFICIENT deserve their proper due.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,085
    Disagreement on a topic is fine, but avoid letting it get personal please. There are some tell-tale signs in the last couple of posts that things are headed in that direction. You're generally not going to "prove" anything here, and getting the opposing view to change their mind rarely happens. Sometimes it comes down to agreeing to disagree and moving on.

    Thanks for your participation and cooperation!

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  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    Disagreement on a topic is fine

    I think raliroadjames and I are closer to agreement than our posts sometimes would seem. I am sure he is someone I would enjoy having dinner with.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,085
    Just looks a bit different from the outside at times! :)

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  • I agree with Gary. We'd probably enjoy sliders @ White Castle or maybe I'd even splurge and by dinner @ Olive Garden with all that extra $$$$ I save on gas with my Prius.
    We"ll keep you happy though and remember the golden rule here @ our favorite forum.
    By the way, Bob. How come you didn't jump on the "new" Altimas the last 2 yrs? They are so sharp! They're definitly one hot lookin car from Nissan. Maybe your considering a hybrid? Huh? Tax incentives luring you maybe?
    Railroadjames(summer's here...enjoy the ride) :shades:
  • cjminnccjminnc Posts: 4
    I am very interested in getting a Prius when my current car, a CRV goes off its lease in August. I was wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to get the $2000 tax deduction if I lease a Prius or is it only if you buy one?

    Thanks,
  • "Speaking for us wealthy people....tax breaks are always used when the government wants to promote something (e.g. home ownership). The fact that the government wants to promote something that saves gas and has less emissions doesn't bother me. The community will benefit."

    .

    The money could be more wisely spent giving tax breaks to the... shall we say "less fortunate" members of our community. THEY are the ones who need to be "promoted", not the bankrolls of the wealthy corporations.

    Also, it appears the Hybrids will sell just the same without the tax breaks. Every hybrid made is quickly sold.

    troy
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    Is the world coming to an end? You and I agree! :surprise:

    Generally, tax incentives are just that - they are used to promote a certain behavior that, without the incentive, might be less attractive. In this case, the behavior we're talking about is purchasing a "greener" vehicle, which would (allegedly) be a less attractive proposition were it not for the tax incentives.

    However, with or without incentives, hybrids are flying off the shelves. So why incentivize this behavior? Why not invest the incentive money in new technology, improving existing technology, or figuring out ways to speed up production to meet demand?

    Alternatively, we could change the name of the federal $$ awarded to "bonus" rather than "incentive."

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  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    This discussion is about the credit and incentives and letting people ask questions about them. Let's not get into salaries, etc.
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    You probably want to ask in the Tax Credits / Incentives for Hybrids discussion as well.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    The federal tax code on this is clear that the vehicle must be your "property". On a leased car, you are not the owner of the "property"--the lessor is.

    Tax instructions available from a link on this page:
    http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Accord+Hybrid

    Many other references state that you must be the "original owner" of the vehicle. This is not explicity mentioned in the tax code, but could be implied by the wording regarding "property". To be sure, you might want to consult the IRS or an attorney.

    Interesting, however, that there is a tax break in Colorado that can be transferred from the leasing company to the lessee.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    In view of the dramatic rise in fuel prices, US President George W. Bush last week announced a programme to develop more fuel-efficient, low-emission vehicles. Together with hybrid vehicles, "clean diesel" models like the Mercedes-Benz E 320 CDI are to be promoted by means of tax incentives to the tune of $ 2.5 billion over the next few years.

    http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050502.003
  • This thread helped a lot with all of the 2004 tax year hybrid incentives, but what about those of us that have purchased a hybrid in 2005? Specifically, does anyone know if the NY state tax incentives (credit) have remained? The Fed deduction is still $2k for another year, so at least there's that.

    Thanks in advance.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 4,098
    The energy bill has passed and includes provisions for a tax credit - that's right credit, not deduction!

    http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/0205_Energy/conference/EnergyConf_report.pdf

    Having read the clauses, it looks like the Prius would qualify for a $1600 credit. The HCH would qualify for $1200. It's hard to say on the Prius because the calculation is based on vehicle weight, and the Prius weight is in between two values. The HCH is almost exactly on a value.

    However,there are strict limits on how many vehicles can have the credit applied. The first 60,000 vehicles get the full credit. The full credit then goes on for one calendar quarter. Then for the next two quarters, the credit is 50%, for the next two quarters after that, the credit is 25%. After that - no more tax credit.

    Since Toyota sells other Hybrids, I think it would be "first come, first served". But it looks like there is a chance that Toyota could have the incentive at least throughout 2006, if they take 3 quarters to sell 60,000 vehicles. Then the incentives would go down in 2007, and be non-existant (for Toyota) after that.

    Note that this means that Ford and Honda will have the incentives for quite a while, due to their lower volume. GM may be having the incentives until 2009, when they end (not that they are worth as much, since their hybrid truck isn't that much better in fuel economy).

    So, get 'em while you can. Only Congress could have come up with something as lame-brained as this...
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 4,098
  • otis1otis1 Posts: 142
    There's a couple of points on this bill that I don't get.

    what is the definition of "Vehicle Inertia Weight Class?" It gives a reference to the clean air act and EPA but I cant find anything about this. My hunch is the number is NOT the curb weight. (I did come accross an epa document that showed a 'small' pickup truck had a class of 4500 lbs, while the 'standard' truck was between 4500-8500 lbs. If a small pickup is 4500 lbs, I got to think a highlander has got to be greater than that.

    How is lifetime fuel savings calculated? I suppose everyone can say their hybrid has the potential to save over 3000 gallons over a conventional car given enough time. Is lifetime defined by a specific set of parameters?

    Does the HH fall under the "passenger automobile" "light truck" or other?
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Hey...thanks for posting that information. I can't believe some of the verbiage in that bill!!! Talk about ambiguous!!! GEEZ!!! Quite "lame brained" indeed!
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    GM may be having the incentives until 2009, when they end (not that they are worth as much, since their hybrid truck isn't that much better in fuel economy).

    I think the DC/GM joint hybrid venture is planned to roll out in the fall of 2006. The Tahoe is slated for that hybrid system. If they can squeeze a high EPA rating that is much better than the 2002 rating it would be a good tax credit. Just in time to give GM and Chrysler a big year end boost.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    I think this will make buying a Prius from now through December very easy. With big discounts. Maybe even GM style giveaways. You should be able to negotiate at least $2500 below MSRP on a Prius sitting on the lot now. Come January I think the wait list will be longer than ever. Has anyone calculated the credit on the other hybrids?

    $875 million in tax credits will be made available to those who buy hybrid gas-electric vehicles before 2010. A person buying a Toyota Prius, for instance, will receive a tax credit of at least $2,500, according to Toyota Motor Corp. spokeswoman Martha Voss.

    The hybrid vehicle tax credit has its limits, however. Each manufacturer can apply the tax credit to just 60,000 vehicles and Toyota sells roughly 150,000 hybrids per year.

    "If we had our way, there would have been a cap of 200,000," Voss said. "But for hybrids just to be in the bill, we're thrilled."


    http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-renewable-energy,0,1325044.story?coll=sns- -ap-politics-headlines
  • Doing a Google search, it appears based on some EPA documents that the Prius is in the 3000 pound vehicle inertia weight class, yielding a 2002 city fuel economy class of 26.4 mpg. The window sticker on my 2005 Prius says 60 mpg, an improvement of (60/26.4) 227 per cent, yielding a tax credit of $2,000. To that is to be added a conservation credit? Calculated by lifetime fuel savings which is 120,000 miles divided by 2002 city class mpg of 26.4, equals 4,545 gallons, compared to prius 120000 divided by 60 mpg equals 2,000 gallons, equals a savings of 2,545 gallons, yielding a tax credit of $750, for a total of $2,750. tax CREDIT? This from the link above re -- new energy bill Comments??
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    No one will get a 2500 discount. Trust me on that one! Keep dreaming Gary!
This discussion has been closed.