Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)

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Comments

  • b9driverb9driver Member Posts: 118
    I must say that CR's comments on fuel economy are dead wrong. I've never gotten as low as 16 MPG and I live in NYC. Average is 18 and change, better on the highway and 24-25 on long drives.
    CR may carry weight, but they've always been my last resource for buying anything on the higher end, including cars. Since buying the Tribeca and comparing it firsthand to cars like the RX330 and MDX I have no doubt that it's at least as good as the RX330 and quite clearly supperior to the MDX by virtue of it's superior AWD system.
    As for power...good grief. NONE of these SUVs are really quick under 50K. I think the Jeep might be the fastest. You don't buy an SUV for speed. Getting the B9's handling was a bonus. I rarely use the sportmode after playing with it for a while. I don't need to. Out on the open road, the B9 is smooth, powerful and very quiet even at high speeds. Measured to be more quiet than the Lexus BTW!
    If you want a nice, comfy ride with more room than typical cars and a luxury oriented approach with some good handling, the b9 beats many of others and does so at a lower price. It also has one thing the others are dearly missing...soul.
    CR looks at cars like a soccer mom would, even when they measure sports cars.

    Robert B
    Blue B9 5 pass..with soul!
  • x5killerx5killer Member Posts: 368
    yeah at least its recommended, thats what I mostly cared about. The Highs are the more important things to me besides the lows of acceleration and transmission which I can deal with. Cramped Second and third row is bogus to me because the second row as we all know when pushed back all the way has probably the most leg room in its class and way more then the jeep laredo cherokee I was in this past weekend. Child seat placement doesnt' affect me right now and maybe it will be an excuse to get a new car then when we do in a year or 2.
    Hopefully the Tribeca will have good resale value as I'm not in a lease.

    bottom line for me is that it was this B9 Tribeca or a Nissan Murano is what it came down to and I'd still choose the Tribeca over the Murano for a few reasons even though the Murano is #4 overall recommended mid size suvl under the RX, Pilot, and HIghlander. Given the choice there are just a few things that edge the Tribeca over the Murano for me.
  • x5killerx5killer Member Posts: 368
    wait a min, are all those recommended and put in the order of their overall score? Because sometimes a vehicle could have a higher overall score but still not get recommended I guess as if it didn't score a certain amount or higher in a category or two.

    That is a move up for the X5 3.0i as before it was #9 overall score but not recommended so to me not even in the running. I'm assuming that it still isn't because it was not redesigned from 2005 to 2006. I have my forums nickname to keep in tact here and I still think the Tribeca is better then an X5 3.0i.

    I usually trust and go by CR pretty strictly as their testing and unbiased unadvertising sponsored results. I go by CR and mostly completely ignore Car & Driver and other mags and their respective awards.

    Most of this isn't different from 2005 which had:
    1. Lexus RX330
    2. Honda Pilot EX-L
    3. Toyota Highlander Limited V6
    4 Nissan Murano SL

    as the top 4 overall scoring and recommended mid size suvs. then at 7 & 8 overall score but recommended were the Acura MDX Touring and Infinit FX35 (v6). BMX X5 3.0i again @ #9 but not recommended so shouldn't be in the running. then at # 10 the Lexus GX470 and recommended. Then 6 others further down the list recommended including the 4runner and the Chrysler Pacifica which I see absent from the new list.

    Please verify if those 24 you listed are all recommended and listed in order of overall score. I really don't think the X5 3.0i would be recommended as it wasn't in 05.

    Take the X5 and the x3 out of the equation as the x3 also wasn't recommended in 05 despite being #10 overall under the X5 (not to mention it is gay looking and small). So the Tribeca would move up 2 spots plus the fact that there is 2 Highlanders and 2 RX listed (hybrid and non) but still the same car so Tribeca would move up 2 more spots.

    hm, I notice that you are missing #8,9,12,17,18 etc. I"m assuming those were midsize suvs that had an overall score in that position but weren't recommended so you didn't list them? in which case the X5 and X3 are recommended? I'm surprised. Please verify. If not this would put the Tribeca at #9 overall recommended suv which is pretty good and considering I woulnd't even consider the Mitsu Endeaor as its ugly and lame. The GX is too big. Pilot is too plain and MDX is a Pilot. my mother and father already have RX400h and Highlander hybrid.

    So, I'd be back to being between the Murano (maybe the FX) and the Tribeca and still think I'd pick the Tribeca.
  • x5killerx5killer Member Posts: 368
    frick it looks like the X5 was recommended then? I'm surprised as I didn't think it changed at all from 2005 and I know it wasn't redesigned and it has never been recommended since it came out. In fact the 3 series and 5 series which was recommended year after year, well now only the 3 series was and the 2005 5 series scored one of the lowest reliability. Ah, well there goes the validity to my nickname but the X5 would still be too pricey even though I spent close to 40k on my Tribeca, I couldn't get the same options at even close to that in the X5 or the FX35 for that matter, so it would be back to the Murano vs. Tribeca for me and I'd still pick the Tribeca today.
  • x5killerx5killer Member Posts: 368
    "but you usually cant have more HP and more efficiency"

    Wrong. Big Misconception. Toyota/Lexus has proved this getting more HP, tourque, performance, speed out of their hybrid powerplants compared to the same exact vehicle without it. Its sad to think that my mom and dads RX 400h and Highlander Hybrid get better gas mileage and yet has more HP and power and speed then my Tribeca but I didn't want the same car as them and the RX 400h is expensive.
  • cluelesspacluelesspa Member Posts: 648
    yeah but Hybrid is not the same engine technology. I could say putting Solar power would get you more mileage ..

    I meant that along the same engine technology "in general" to get more HP output you need to usually add more fuel to the engine and to add more Fuel you need to add more Air (hence turbo) or bigger sized engine block. this "usually" results in reduced miles per gallon.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    x5killer: yep, just add .com; yes it comes with the cord to plug into the cargo area; and yes the ac/dc converter allows you to plug into a wall outlet. I doubt the converter would work with other things, but really don't know.
    On Subaru's website they show the cooler with just a Subaru logo, not the Outback logo I mentioned previously, so allsubaru may have that item available. If it's important to you which logo it has, I'd give 'em a call or e-mail to clarify what you want and what they have available, since their picture shows the cooler with the Outback logo.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cramped Second and third row is bogus to me because the second row as we all know when pushed back all the way has probably the most leg room in its class

    Thank you for being the first to point that out.

    Yet another in the long, looooong list of reviewers that did not figure out the release button so the seat can move back an extra 4". That's a lot, the difference between cramped and roomy.

    That's too bad because for a publication like CR comfort and room are big factors, no doubt that hurt it in the overall ratings.

    No biggie, though, folks. Look at the bottom line - they rate the Tribeca as VERY GOOD and proceed to recommend it. Sure, it's mid-pack, but considering the mistake they made in the 2nd row seating, it probably would have done a bit better.

    Having said that, the Forester is rated EXCELLENT and always has been, despite its cramped rear seat.

    They rated handling, ride, and steering well.

    0-60 was slow, but it's always slow with CR. The TSX sports sedan took 9.2 seconds. Some pubs get those in at around 7 seconds. So CR doesn't try too hard.

    Think of it this way, CR 0-60 is what you'd get if your grandmother was behind the wheel. :D

    -juice
  • alex_azalex_az Member Posts: 1
    I need some advice from members. My Tribeca's windshield started to crack from the center top down while it was parked. After taking the car to the dealer (where they looked at it and found two minute "chips" on the windshield and a low-res picture from a cell phone to Subaru, my warranty claim was denied.

    I can't believe it. If a rock had hit the windshield to cause that kind of damage it would be obvious. And I certainly would not expect for such a situation to be covered by a warranty. That would be unreasonable.

    But for a windshield to crack like this with no other visible sings...This is my first Subaru and I thought my warranty experience would be better. I've called Subaru, but I reaaly need help. I just don't think this is fair.

    Thanks for any advice.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's usually not visible.

    Try this instead - run a ball-point pen along the crack. If it stops in a "pit" anywhere along the way, it was debris that caused it. It might have happened early, and the crack developed later.

    Regardless, check if your insurance policy covers this. In MD, it's covered under my comprehensive policy, which I have a $100 deductible on. Look in your yellow pages for a coupon, sometimes you can cut that in half or even get it replaced for free.

    We have not seen a pattern of cracked windshields so I don't think it's a warranty item, to be honest.

    Good luck.

    -juice
  • foxbat121foxbat121 Member Posts: 211
    I read most insurance companies would happy to replace the windshield for you with a small deductible. The reason is there is a potential safty risk if your vision is impaired by the crack. Check with your insurance company to see what could be done. I have never heard any warranty will cover cracked windshield because most of the time it is caused by rocks, not necessary big ones. And it is hard to prove otherwise.
  • jerrys2jerrys2 Member Posts: 189
    As indicated on my earlier post I purchased Coleman cooler w/converter at Wal- Mart last fall for about $60.
    Jerry
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Jerry's absolutely right, X5killer. Non-Subaru-branded coolers can be much cheaper. If you can't stand Wal-Mart (or aren't near one), most good-sized sporting goods/outdoor/hunting/camping stores (G.I. Joe's, Gart, etc.) carry these.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    I paid 1560 for zero deductible 7/100. dealer matched prices at http://www.business-solutions.us/projects/masterPortfolio/Subaru/www/other/home.cfm (you have to initiate the application process to see the prices)
    you can also check subaruwrxparts.com but they don't have zero deductible prices on the site
    all the dealership websites will show you the "list price".
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just ask the dealer to see his cost book and tell him you'll pay $100 over his cost.

    Then share the info with us. :)

    -juice
  • robotb9robotb9 Member Posts: 82
    Just saw this in the news. I presume this means the Saab 9-6X won't happen after all. Maybe there's a hybrid engine for the Tribeca in the future.

    TOKYO - Toyota has agreed to buy an 8.7 percent stake in Japanese automaker Fuji Heavy Industries from General Motors Corp. for $310.5 million, officials from both companies said Wednesday, in a deal that will make Toyota the top shareholder in the company that makes Subaru cars.

    GM and Fuji agreed to dissolve their alliance and capital relationship, said Toyota executive vice president Mitsuo Kinoshita and Fuji Heavy President Kyoji Takenaka at a joint news conference. GM will sell its remaining 11.4 percent stake in Fuji in the market.

    Toyota Motor Corp. and Fuji are setting up a steering committee to try to reach an agreement on future collaboration as soon as possible, the companies said.
  • tyyeh0tyyeh0 Member Posts: 43
    go to another dealership and reason with them

    I found a similar crack -- completely straight up and down in the middle of the windshield of my inifiniti g35 after 2 years of driving. Brought it to the dealer and they agreed it was a installation defect where the windshield is fitted to tight such that expansion/contraction of the glass under temperature changes caused the crack. For this type of crack, you should be able to run your finger down the crack and not feel anothing such as chips and such. If the chips are much farther from the crack, and the crack looks like what I described, it should be replaced without charge.

    good luck, please let this forum know what happens. I'd like to see Subaru's customer service in action.
  • WMartonWMarton Member Posts: 58
    "Cramped Second and third row is bogus to me because the second row as we all know when pushed back all the way has probably the most leg room in its class

    Thank you for being the first to point that out.

    Yet another in the long, looooong list of reviewers that did not figure out the release button so the seat can move back an extra 4". That's a lot, the difference between cramped and roomy.

    That's too bad because for a publication like CR comfort and room are big factors, no doubt that hurt it in the overall ratings."

    Juice,

    I don't think CR made this mistake at all. The fact is, you can't put the center row all the way back if you want to use the third row. The Tribeca offers class leading second-row leg room for a FIVE seat vehicle, but it's still cramped if you want to seat seven.

    Bill
  • cluelesspacluelesspa Member Posts: 648
    Interesting! ... after GM has sucked the technology out of Subaru for the AWD... I wonder what Fuji received in return from GM? I dont see any of their technology in Subaru Cars....
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Interesting! ... after GM has sucked the technology out of Subaru for the AWD... I wonder what Fuji received in return from GM? I dont see any of their technology in Subaru Cars....

    I don't think GM really got anything out of Subaru except the 92-X. Are GM's AWD systems really any better now than before the investment? At least Subaru got to sell a few more Imprezas.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    >I wonder what Fuji received in return from GM?

    cheaper parts from volume purchase through GM suppliers
  • x5killerx5killer Member Posts: 368
    jeff,
    allsubaru.com has the outback labeled cooler for $102.95. and subaruparts.com has the subaru labeled cooler for 126.98 but it does look pretty much like the same cooler just with different label. I got it for $111 which is supposedly the dealers cost while its listed for $192.15 and what they regularly sell it for. So at least I did better then subaruparts.com's price and though its just an igloo cooler that says subaru I hope $111 isn't more then what the one that doesnt' say subaru is in say walmart or something because the one the guy says in a previous post he got in walmart for 60 was a coleman so not the same thing. I just felt better getting the one that is in the official B9 Tribeca accessories catalog. Meanwhile, its too tall to fit under the luggage compartment cover so unless i find a shorter one that fits under the luggage cover better elswhere I'll be keepping this one.

    I also got the larger cargo tray (5 seater) for 51 when its listed for 69.95 and subaruparts has it for 57.75 and allsubaru has it for 55.96 so I did better then all on that but still stuck with the smaller 7 passenger that I may keep anyway for rare occasion I use the 3rd row.

    I also got the bulbs changed out to the Sylvania silverstar for the low beam and the fog light and they are significantly brighter and whiter and look like HID. I changed the high beam to the H9's from v-mod.com which was a great price for them and I know I saw the whole lecture about blue bulbs being junk but they are just as bright or more so then the original highbeams with a nice whitish blue tint and as the high beam is the only exposed bulb you see it even when they are off and it reflects around in the casing blue and looks cool when off during the day.
  • x5killerx5killer Member Posts: 368
    jerry,
    Your'e right you can get the Coleman Powerchill 40 quart thermo -electric cooler @ walmart for 67.77 not 60 though but still better then 192.15 for the Igloo Subaru cooler and even the 111 I paid for it plus the Coleman one comes with the converter to plug into normal outlet but I don't think it has the ability to warm like hte Igloo one, only cool.
    I'm looking at all the cooler choices but looks like I'll be returning the Igloo Subaru one i got and getting the coleman as well.
  • x5killerx5killer Member Posts: 368
    Wow, thats good news to me. I didn't like the whole GM Subaru alliance mostly just because GM hasn't made great cars for the past several years and I felt like it cheapened the Subaru brand. Even Subaru technicians at the dealership told me GM was trying to steal all Subaru's secrets. Though GM is American and Toyota is another Japanese company I just felt like GM would only bring Subaru down and cheapen the brand like I said.

    Toyota as much as I want to not like them because they are so big, so succesful and have so many models (Of the big 3 japanese automakers 1.Toyota/Lexus 2. Honda/Acuar 3.Nissan/Infiniti I tend to like and root for Nissan/Infiniti as they are the smallest and use to make the more unique car with attention to detail not just the common Accord and Camry)

    But just look at the top recommended midsize suv category that the Tribeca is in Toyota/Lexus has the top 2 in their RX400h and Highlander Hybrid then the non hybrid RX330 in 3rd. and the non hybrid Highlander in the top 5 or whatever along with the Lexus GX and Toyota 4runner on the list and have had the top models in this and other category in previous years as well.

    Subaru can only benefit from their technology and success and as someone said it does look more likely for a B9 Tribeca hybrid. Of course too bad we already got the first rendition Tribeca and by the time I sell/trade it in for a new car I might just like the new modern styling redesigned Highlander by then or go in a diff direction and look at the hybrid version of the Audi Q7 or some other.

    Also as far as those Consumer Reports ratings, I'm really surprised to see the BMW X5 3.0i recommended (there goes the validity to my nick) suddenly after no major redesign that I know of and after having yet to be recommended since it came out but after pricing one out equally to my Tribeca it comes to about 60k so totally not worth it for the 3.0 litre engine.

    Even the Infiniti FX35 gets up there to like 45 and while the Acura MDX is the better price between those 2 luxury mid size category suvs (though mdx is bigger then fx) the Murano still seems to be the most closest competition in size, styling, options, price etc. and the Murano even comes up a little higher in price then the Tribeca, Before the Tribeca existed I would probably have to go with the Murano but for me if i had to choose again tomorrow it would still be the Tribeca I think edging it out for me at least in a few minor ways.

    Good job on Subarus part on getting ppl like myself (potential Murano buyers) over to the B9 instead but shame that the Murano is rated higher overall score. 2005 was the first year it was recommended too even though it had been out a couple years at least so maybe the same thing happened wiht the X5 3.0i....no redesign but just tweaked/improved the different areas to get a high enough score in all to be recommended which is pretty good and smart work on both Nissan and BMW's part to improve those things whether by their own notice or actually paying attention to CR's testing.
  • jim76jim76 Member Posts: 2
    The Tribeca offers versatility - a 7seater suitable for kids or adults for short trips in the back rows, or a roomy 5seater for adults. This all in the same vehicle. To criticise the car as cramped simply because it cant offer a roomy 7 seater is to miss the point, especially when less versatile cars with less room for 5 - the X5 - dont get criticised. And the Tribeca is avaiable as a 5seater if thats what you want!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Yep, there really is going to be a Subaru Crew chat tonight (unless I just jinxed the servers, lol). Link's on the left.

    Steve, Host
  • renjordrenjord Member Posts: 5
    With the Tribeca Nav system, you must hit the button that you agree every single time you start the car in order for the application to load. Can you agree forever and not have to lean over and hit the button every time you start driving?
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    no because then some trial lawyers will be on the dole.
  • jerrys2jerrys2 Member Posts: 189
    Sorry, I was off by a few bucks or it might have been on sale last Sept. In any event it does heat and cool ... at least mine (the Coleman Power Chill). I also have an Igloo Kool Mate, but I bought it years ago, don't recall the price but it lots less than the Subaru cooler.
    Jerry
  • foxbat121foxbat121 Member Posts: 211
    Just noticed and confirmed this morning that Tribeca does have speed-sensing intermittent wipers. I used my stop watch to time the speed of the wipers when set to fastest in intermittent mode, @ 40mph the wipers turn twice as fast as @ parked. This is a feature often touted by Acura MDX and yet Subaru managed to hide the information from us.

    This is the first we have real rain here in couple of months.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My Garmin has a similar screen, but oddly enough it goes away by itself after a little while.

    I'm with Jim on the CR seat issue. The 2nd row is potentially very roomy. They criticized both the 2nd and the 3rd rows, that's unfair IMO. 3rd row folded the 2nd row becomes a palace, with the biggest DVD screen option in SUV-dom. I would not rank that as uncomfortable by any stretch of the imagination.

    Back to the GM thing - we saw some photo-chops of 2 doors that would-have-been the Saab 9-6x, do folks think there's enough demand for Subaru to build a 3 door Tribeca (5 seat only)?

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    It would be product suicide to have a 3-door SUV with the general size of the Tribeca, so I never believed the photoshops. Think about how useless and un-versatile that would be!

    I do think the (5-door) 9-6X would have been a good thing for Saab. As it stands now, their one SUV offering is a lousy GM clone and doesn't offer any compelling virtues in my opinion.

    Craig
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Unlike you and juice, I'm not convinced that they were Photoshoped images. However, now that the project is canceled, I guess we'll never know for sure...

    Bob
  • cluelesspacluelesspa Member Posts: 648
    yep ... confirmed it as well. pretty neat! rough guess about twice as fast
  • aka1aka1 Member Posts: 110
    Just thought I would share that my mileage has gone up approximately 1.5mpg... it's not much, but every bit helps. It's been raining hard in NC for the past few days and this thing sticks to the road- I wish Subaru would include an animation on the navigation showing which wheels the power was being sent to with percentages, bc you can't really tell unless you're probably on snow... I think the LR3 has this.

    The rear wiper needs to be on INT in order for it to swipe once when reverse is engaged- I stand corrected. Time for oil change, dealer sent notice for 19.99 special- how much are others here getting charged for oil changes?

    Cheers!
    AKA1
  • mikejlmikejl Member Posts: 78
    It's in the owner's manual, pages 3-31 and 3-32. Both the front and rear wipers are speed-sensing in the intermittent mode.
  • megreyhairmegreyhair Member Posts: 154
    Yeap. It's in the manual... FYI, the rear wiper is speed sensitive too.......
  • cluelesspacluelesspa Member Posts: 648
    actually it operates as someone pointed out earlier. when in intermittent already and you put into reverse, the rear wiper doesn't sweep once but actually goes into full ON mode while in reverse.
  • b9driverb9driver Member Posts: 118
    Driving back from PA yesterday it was finally cool enough to leave AC off. 5th gear locked, 75-80 MPH, average speed of traffic overall and we had 26 MPG!!!! We were two adults and a baby plus some sailing gear. The B9 is truly the best overall SUV for under 40k depending on what your needs are. But if you want the best AWD system coupled with luxury, only the Lexus 330 (which I found less comfortable) can compete.

    Tricks for better MPG: manual mode in 5th gear at ALL TIMES. Build up speed for any steep grades and there's no problem. AC off added 1.5 MPG or so.

    Robert B
    NY
  • b9driverb9driver Member Posts: 118
    Just thought I would share that my mileage has gone up approximately 1.5mpg>>

    Mine has also improved. I'm expecting to use no gas at all by the time we hit 30K miles.

    Robert B
    NY
  • b9driverb9driver Member Posts: 118
    How do you get an oil change out of range of a dealer??? Every service station claims they have no filter yet for this car! Is it different from the Outback H6 filter? It's a real problem when you are far from a dealer.

    Robert B
    NY
  • cluelesspacluelesspa Member Posts: 648
    would be interested as well. I usually get my oil changes at the local Firestone dealer who has cheaper prices then my dealer and easier to get in and out for an oil change.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't think a 3 door SUV would sell in much volume, either, but I was just wondering what other people thought.

    which wheels the power was being sent to with percentages

    Isuzu had this with the Borg-Warner sourced TOD.

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Check liberty subaru in NJ -- you can mail-order filters from them at discount prices, and then just bring them to your mechanic.

    Craig
  • subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    If the factory has the capacity to run a two door down their line and marketed it correctly it could make sense to offer such a niche car.

    I think the market would be a younger urban buyer, probably male.

    The 2 door (I would call it an XUV Coupe or an XUC) and it would be very different from the B9 in its equipment & options.

    This could be a great platform to go even more upscale and performance oriented.

    I would put a turbo on the current B9 engine and a six spped manual & offer a six speed automatic as well.

    Since it is not a family hauler, lose the DVD and add a huge sunroof, a real high end sound system, blue tooth & voice cammand, performance seats and an upgraded interior, 20 inch chrome wheels, better brakes & improved steering feed back.

    Then SOA could test the high market with less risk and have a better chance of success since they would not be selling to their price oriented core market, but a more sophisticated & eclectic buyer they is tied to performance and quality - not brand loyalty.

    Done right that vehicle though not a high volume product would open the door for SOA to begin to recognized as a supplier of high quality, high enf performance vehicles that still maintain all basics that Subaru have come to be known for.
  • cluelesspacluelesspa Member Posts: 648
    what you are describing is leaning a little toward the Toyota FJ coming out in Feb 06

    Link to Edmonds info
  • subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    My idea is nothing like a FJ. It sounds like the FJ is low priced entry level car.

    I envision the most expensive Subaru yet - it would have all the missing options we have discussed for our B9s plus power and performance.

    With the right tweaks Subaru could have an SUV that performs and handles like a BMW V8 5 series, which is truly the ultimate driving machine.
  • foxbat121foxbat121 Member Posts: 211
    The problem is current market condition (gas price) would make such move suicidal. Subaru'd better off focusing on hybrid offering on B9.
  • subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    People who want that type of vehicle do not really care about gas prices - plus if dine right it would probably get better MPG than then my B9.

    Hybrid is a worse investment financially for almost all buyers. The increased costs are greater than any savings the average owner would ever see. Also, from a pollution angle, I would not not be surprised if the manufacturing & disposal process for the batteries caused more net pollution than the burning of more gas in a conventional system.
  • foxbat121foxbat121 Member Posts: 211
    While I agree with you on Hybrids, general public think other way judging by the long waiting list of Toyota's Hybrid offerings.

    People who want that type of vehicle do not really care about gas prices

    Those people alone won't sustain SOA's business unless the car sells for $200,000 a piece.
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