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Comments
Bob
Spent the whole time there clambering into the 3rd row of every 3 row 7 seater I could find and then going back to compare with the B9. B9 is quite good for a non minivan/full size SUV. In terms of space it rivals the XC90 back there (actually maybe a bit better),maybe not as good as a Pilot/MDX but better than a Highlander.SRX was nice,oodles of leg room but no footwell so adults sit with their knees at chest level back there.Got 5 kids and 2 minivans already so don't need another but a 5 seater with possibility of going 7 occasionally would be good.Plus its a Subaru.(That would make it the 5th I have gotten!)
Will wait till I can test drive it but its right up there on the list right now to replace the 98 Legacy. Could potentially go for an XC90 if something comes up negatively on the test drive.Visibility out the back isn't the greatest but better than a Murano/FX.Or for many new sedans.The best non fullsize SUV or minivan with 7 seating in terms of seating comfort is probably the Freestyle. Having had 2 Windstars,I wouldn't touch that with a barge pole.
Looks like Smart cars are going to be sold next year maybe.If I had no kids and lived in the city.That would be a no brainer!
Bob
"Subaru... had been banking on the remodeled flagship Legacy and other new cars to improve its fortunes, but faced declining profitability as more customers opted for cheaper variations of its products."
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID- =7619868
I don't think that news really means much for the Tribeca's potential, but I wonder if it will impact how many base models they build and how they advertise it. As Bob mentioned earlier, they aren't focusing on the out-doorsy image with their pics. I wonder if that's one change to help promote a more upscale image.
Thoughts?
Bob
I hope the Tribeca can (although taking 18" wheels into mud doesn't sound appealing)
tom
Subaru's reputation is not good enough to achieve that right now, neither is the service. So if they work really hard, they might be able to do it, over a few years.
Sly
In some ways I've been very impressed with the Tribeca, mostly in interior quality. But I'm also a bit let down. Considering Subaru's outdoors personality, I was hoping for something that would be more offroadish. The segment they're competing in is already pretty full.
I guess the 2005 Nissan Xterra is more like what I was hoping for. Especially with the Off Road package.
They are merely targeting:
1. Loyal Subaru Customers
2. Those who can't afford RX/MDX
Maybe they'll relase a more OB style Tribeca that will be more offroad friendly? Granted I never did more than fire roads in my SUVs, but that's still more than I'd want to do with those 18" rims.
tom
Excellent point. There are a lot of people who long for either of those two, but can't afford them. The Tribeca just might be a cheaper solution.
Bob
Craig
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID- =7619868
I think the sales numbers might pertain to the Japanese market. The numbers SOA has been releasing look much better, though we have not seen specific model breakdowns other than noting Legacy GT (turbo) sales have been good. SOA generally publishes unit sales numbers and doesn't talk about $$. So it's certainly possible their profits are flat/down even though sales are up.
If they knocked a couple thousand off prices on the high end, the cars would certainly be more compelling.
Craig
-Joe
The whole "upscale" talk was controversial, a lot of tradition Subaru owners wanted to keep the "inexpensive and built to stay that way" motto.
RX and MDX cost a bunch more, though. It's not going head-to-head with those, not really. Price is closer to the mainstream brands, they just want to offer a hint of luxury to make luxury intenders think twice.
I think they managed that pretty nicely.
If you want a loaded Tribeca, you probably want the 9" DVD and Nav, I know I certainly would. A cloth interior RX with neither of those would not be an alternative in my mind.
MDX $44k
RX330 $45k
With the same equipment as that $38k Tribeca, remember.
-juice
I'm betting the Tribeca will be incredible for what it was intended for, snowy roads, fire roads, and the like. I was just hoping for something more...'aggressive.'
Yeah, I agree with the percentages, Craig. But it's that 1% that's most memorable :-)
-Ty
Try fully loaded buying RX/MDX for 45k. The difference of 7-8k. There are a lot of people who strech for RX/MDX......if given a valid options ( assume Tribeca ) is for 7k cheaper, any sensible buyer would take it
Craig
I was pretty amazed at the acelleration numbers of the Tribeca given it's small displacement engine. I was originally hoping for a turbo flat 6, but the normally aspirated seems to be doing just fine. The X has another litre, 15 more horse, and 60 more lbs of torque, yet pulls the same numbers. Gotta' be in the gearing.
Subaru building a traditional SUV would be like Honda building a pick-up truck...
... oh, now wait a minute...
In this case, Subaru sales may be doing just fine, but because they are selling low-profit base models, rather than high-profit turbo cars, the companies bottom line isn't growing like it should.
FWIW, a similar article on the subject noted that Subaru sales were flat for 2004. I guess numbers were down until a strong rise in the last 4 months as the Legacy boosted sales.
A few thousand more at this point is not a big deal (for people who can afford $40k cars), especially if you will make it up at resale. Most people who want a 'premium' SUV will pay a few $k more, just for the name. If you can't afford a few thousand more at this price, you are probably overspending as it is.
I had a friend who worked for Lexus (corporate division) in the early years. Japanese Toyota execs could not understand why a more expensive rebadged camry with a fancy name would be popular. But the American execs knew, make it more exclusive, more expensive, and Americans would eat it up. And they did.
Subaru doesn't have that 'name' or 'exclusivity' and so will have an uphill battle. And it's not like they don't have some very good competition (no matter what you believe, the MDX, RX, and X5 are all very nice pseudo-SUVs)
Just adding fuel to the fire. And hoping Subaru prices the Tribeca right. Although if they don't, you could always wait for rebates. ;-)
Personally, I'd much rather have a Subaru than a Lexus or Acura. Just not at the same price. ;-)
tom
Also, note that Subarus are viewed as competitors to German SUVs which are in high-40s range (BMW, VW & Volvo).
They can't price fully loaded tribeca at 35 when VDC hits 33k mark. BTW, what will tribeca do to VDC OB ?
Now, i see subaru using VDC in all models in few years.
The last XTerra was crude and rude, an 80s pickup was more refined. I'm completely uninterested. And if you ask me quality will likely drop, not increase, when they build it in the Armada's plant.
The new Pathfinder, now body-on-frame, is a closer competitor, but the 3rd seat is painful and bolt-upright. I also felt the interior is about 3 steps down from what the Tribeca offers.
In general, Nissan's trucks have had poor quality, enough that Ghosn had to send hundreds of engineers to the plant to come up with fixes.
A heavily discounted Lexus RX would certainly be a tough challenger for the Tribeca. But remember - a *lot* of current Subaru owners could afford more, but chose not to.
So if they target the RX and then play the value card, even just $5k difference will certainly sway the same buyers that got an Outback instead of a Volvo or Audi today.
-juice
Subaru needs to play up the quality of the H-6 engine and the symetrical AWD. The Lexus, BMWs, and Acuras are pseudo AWD that are actually FWD vehicles that shift when the going gets rough, Subaru is real AWD that starts out with a more even distribution of power front to rear. It's really why I went with Subaru over a Volvo, etc.
I really hope the Tribeca campaign accentuates these differences.
I'd like to see a commercial with two guys talking about their cares at a car wash.... They each talk about their SUV's qualities, the real AWD, etc. Then at the end, the one with the lower specs gets in his X-5 and one with the higher specs drives off in his Tribeca with the car wash staff's admiration or something similar.
I guess i am NOT allowed to post links
While I am impressed with the traction of my Forester, I have already rubbed its chin in the gravel a time or two. Fortunately, the damage is not really noticeable, but I would like to see Subaru improve their approach and departure angles, which can be done without significantly changing ride height.
Bob
What i heard was no links to sites that have forums.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article- _id=9145
Getting into the 3rd row seats is cumbersome, and once you get there, seating is cramped.
I feel the styling on instrument panel and grille are overdone. Simpler would be better.
I would like to thank Subaru for the free tickets to the show and a nice spread in the hospitality room.
Jim
Bill
The differences between Subaru's AWD and say... BMW's, are only going to be significant to AWD enthusiasts. And I don't see this vehicle being marketed to enthusiasts. I think it's more of a practical alternative to those brands trying to play the enthusiast card as their primary virtue (BMW and Infiniti come to mind).
Furthermore, Acura is likely to introduce SH-AWD to the MDX within the next year. If Subaru spreads the gospel of AWD, they may be sending people to the competitor with the better system.
I think Subaru is trying to muster a new image, rather than rely on AWD as their principle selling point. And I think that's a good idea. AWD is rapidly becoming common hardware.
Selling the Tribeca as a less expensive entry-lux vehicle may be a tough row to hoe, but, after a few years, I think the results will pay off.
Thanks for the link. That 0-60 is an estimate, BTW.
Good review. This is the kind of subjective testing I've been waiting for. So far, so good. The quote below doesn't make my heart flutter, but it's promising.
"With communicative steering, four-wheel disc brakes with ABS, and big footprints, the B9 is impressively flat through turns and treats passengers to a compliant ride that still offers enough firmness to encourage you to take the back roads to Woodstock."
I'm going with my Subaru LLBean pullover windbreaker, maybe they'll let me in? ;-)
-Brian
I really don't see promoting the symettrical AWD as helping Acura that much, but I do see the failure to promote this system as helping BMW, Lexus, Volvo, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc. because they get lumped in with the crowd. Consumers need to understand what makes Subaru's unique and why we loyalist return to them. Also, most U.S. consumers just don't know that much about Subaru, the Tribeca is an opportunity to create that image and paint it as something apart from the crowd in a similar way that Apple promotes its products.
----
Wouldn't it be neat if Subaru could get Lance Armstrong and Sheryl Crow for a Tribeca commercial? Armstrong would give it the outdoor/sports persona that he gives to Subaru's line of vehicles and Crow could give the Tribeca a refined/fun persona attractive to female purchasers. Just another ranting thought as I hope Subaru takes advantage of the unique marketing opportunity Tribeca presents.
Subaru B9 Tribeca: Maybe you'll like the exterior design of the Tribeca. Maybe you'll think it's hideous. Once people see it in person, most will like it, said Bell. It just doesn't photograph well.
"That's one of those that screams 'concept,' then they tell you, 'No, it's production,'" said Bell.
The Tribeca is the first step in Subaru's plan to move up-market. The vehicle's artful interior design reinforces the message that going up-market, for Subaru, doesn't mean imitating anything else that's already there.
Most people associate AWD with all-weather safety. Whether it comes from a FWD until needed add-on system or a full-time designed-in from the start system, most consumers will probably not notice the differences under the majority of driving conditions. This adaptation is similar to what's going on with stability systems -- to the uninitiated, there's no perceived difference -- stability is stability.
I believe the logical step for Subaru is to go beyond AWD and focus on total vehicle safety. Vehicle crash worthiness, stability and all-weather capabilities. To avoid becoming just another Volvo, Subaru can also play the cards of performance and affordability -- two aspects that I believe are not Volvo's strengths.
Ken
BMW X5 (X-Drive)
BMW X3
Infiniti FX
Caddy SRX
Neutral (50/50):
Lexus RX
Highlander
Audi/VW Quattro
Front bias:
Volvo
Acura
Honda
Rendezvous (Versatrak)
Not sure about the Murano? Anyone?
Note the Tribeca is grouped with the two sportiest entries in the segment, and this is no accident.
Rear-biased AWD, tight steering, low profile tires, and a tight suspension might make the Tribeca stand out as an affordable performance SUV if an FX or X5 is not in the budget, and those cost a bunch more.
-juice
Bob
-Brian
Craig
Come to the light!
Sly
(Sorry Sly, couldn't help it)
I think people are starting to lighten up. ;-)
tom