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Which supercharger for a truck?
powerisfun
Member Posts: 358
in General
I'm seriously considering supercharging my 5.7L
Vortec in my '98 GMC K1500. You only live once
right? And it's a lot cheaper than trading in for,
say, the new 8.1L when it comes out. From my
research, I've narrowed it down to 2 choices: the
Whipple twin-screw or the ATI-Procharger
centrifugal. One of the main reasons I chose these
two is that they're both completely self contained
(engine oil doesn't need to be pumped through them
making installation much easier).
The advantages of the Whipple are:
1) more low end torque because twin-screw keeps
boost more constant for varying rpm's unlike
the centrifugal which is very rpm dependant.
2) max horsepower comes at a lower rpm
3) slightly lower price
4) no time lag in power (centrifugals have a
slight lag like a turbo, but not as bad)
The advantages of the ATI-procharger are:
1) Better gas mileage at highway rpms because
centrifugals have don't leach much power
at rpm's below 2500.
2) Has inter-cooler built in so the truck's PCM
won't have to retard the ignition timing and
there is less worry of pre-ignition.
3) Overall horsepower improvement is higher (but
it comes at higher rpm) because of intercooler
and nature of centrifugals
4) looks easier to install (but looks can be
deceiving so I'm not sure about this one)
5) for $25 or $50 you can buy a 3-year unlimited
mileage warranty for the supercharger unit
which tells me they're confident that it's
not going to break.
Most of the time I use my truck as a big car, with
a big trunk. Occasionally, I do some light
hauling. No stump-pulling, no heavy hauling or
towing (it's only a half-ton pickup). I mainly
want take-off power (I have to pull into heavy
traffic a lot), passing power, and highway
hill-climbing power (I live in a very hilly region
of New Mexico). Does anyone have any experience
with either of these units (or supercharging in
general)? I'd welcome any comments or advantages
(or disadvantages) that I haven't thought of. Or
if you think another brand is better than these
two, I'd appreciate input on that as well. Thanks.
-powerisfun
Vortec in my '98 GMC K1500. You only live once
right? And it's a lot cheaper than trading in for,
say, the new 8.1L when it comes out. From my
research, I've narrowed it down to 2 choices: the
Whipple twin-screw or the ATI-Procharger
centrifugal. One of the main reasons I chose these
two is that they're both completely self contained
(engine oil doesn't need to be pumped through them
making installation much easier).
The advantages of the Whipple are:
1) more low end torque because twin-screw keeps
boost more constant for varying rpm's unlike
the centrifugal which is very rpm dependant.
2) max horsepower comes at a lower rpm
3) slightly lower price
4) no time lag in power (centrifugals have a
slight lag like a turbo, but not as bad)
The advantages of the ATI-procharger are:
1) Better gas mileage at highway rpms because
centrifugals have don't leach much power
at rpm's below 2500.
2) Has inter-cooler built in so the truck's PCM
won't have to retard the ignition timing and
there is less worry of pre-ignition.
3) Overall horsepower improvement is higher (but
it comes at higher rpm) because of intercooler
and nature of centrifugals
4) looks easier to install (but looks can be
deceiving so I'm not sure about this one)
5) for $25 or $50 you can buy a 3-year unlimited
mileage warranty for the supercharger unit
which tells me they're confident that it's
not going to break.
Most of the time I use my truck as a big car, with
a big trunk. Occasionally, I do some light
hauling. No stump-pulling, no heavy hauling or
towing (it's only a half-ton pickup). I mainly
want take-off power (I have to pull into heavy
traffic a lot), passing power, and highway
hill-climbing power (I live in a very hilly region
of New Mexico). Does anyone have any experience
with either of these units (or supercharging in
general)? I'd welcome any comments or advantages
(or disadvantages) that I haven't thought of. Or
if you think another brand is better than these
two, I'd appreciate input on that as well. Thanks.
-powerisfun
Tagged:
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Thanks. I checked out the Wynjammer as you suggested. That's definitely another good candidate. I'd never heard of them before your post. The price is good and the installation looks easy, I'll have to look into that one some more. Thanks again.
davids1:
Yeah, I just reread my post and I even made myself sick with how anal I am about some things. Later,
-powerisfun
a whole lot before I spend $3000+ so I figured I may as well start now. This topic will probably be frozen by the time I do get one, but I'll just start another one at the time.
everyone:
In the meantime, please continue to offer any input. I have no experience with superchargers other than a lot of reading and I once test-drove a Pontiac GTP (great car!) with supercharged 3800 engine. So any info will be appreciated.
-powerisfun
That's the only problem I have with the Lightning. Wonder how much horsepower and torque the transmission and rear end can take??
Good Luck...
99 dakota r/t and it worked killer!Instant boost
when you stand on it.......fun
Bummer regarding the Lightning, but as I recall you traded it in for an F-250 SD 4x4 which is a much more practical truck (and one of the best looking vehicles on the road, IMO). You could install a supercharger on the SD and have the best of both worlds.
I think Eaton also makes the supercharger for the GTP, but I'm not sure.
swobig:
Yes, my truck is a 4x4 (Z71). I don't take it off road at all, but here in northern NM, we get really slick roads in winter, so I definitely needed the 4x4. The Z71 package was not needed, but I got it off the lot and it was the only thing the dealer had with everything I wanted...plus, I do like the way it looks. I agree that the Lightning (and forthcoming Chevy SS Thunder) would be nice in 4x4 form (or maybe AWD). Even then, I'd want an ext-cab too. I guess the only way to get one like that is to build it yourself, which is what I'm trying to do with my future
"Z71-SS" (or maybe "Z71-GT" is more fitting since it's a GMC)
It won't be a match for the Lightning (or the SS Thunder) or even close for that matter, but it should be a good mix of fun and practical.
y2ktrd:
Thanks for the info on the Whipple (Kenne Belle).
Do you happen to know how it affected the Dakota's gas mileage? My truck currently gets 18-21 mpg, which I think is great. I don't mind taking a little hit, but I'd hate to see it drop to 12-15 or something like that.
Thanks all,
-powerisfun
considering he always had his foot to the floor!
lol
One question I forgot to ask you, was how difficult was it to install the Kenne-Belle? That's a big consideration for me. I'm fairly handy with tools, but I'm not a mechanic. I installed my own headers and performance exhaust on this truck, and I do all my own routine maintenance, but that's about it. That's one thing going for the Wynjammer that barlitz mentioned above (they claim only 3-hours to install).
-powerisfun
you need a good head on your shoulders and plenty of time to read and understand the directions and you should have no probs.i did it in segments,
started on a wed night after i got home from work
and every night after that and i had it running on sunday.i just didn't rush doing it thats all
and it was a good experience.i'm sure i couild
do another one in half the time now.
the truck was not to fast to begin with (15.0 in
the 1/4 mile at 89 mph),hell my v6 tacoma 4wd went 81 mph in the 1/4 mile........i guess you can't polish a turd.
(5.7L, ext-cab, full-size GMC) is even more of a turd to start with. The Dakotas are about 1000 lbs lighter than a full-size especially since mine is 4WD.
Do you mean you had to replace the intake manifold gasket. If so, that sounds like a huge pain. Do you happen to know if that is specific to the Dodge 5.9L that you have to replace those? Were the gaskets included with the kit?
Yeah, $4000 is a lot of moola. The best price I've seen for the 5.7L kit is $3675 + $16 shipping, which is also a lot of money. I really love this truck and because of that I'm hoping to keep it for 10-15 years. The only reason I can foresee wanting to trade it in is for something with more power. Adding a supercharger is a bit of insurance that there won't be anything with more power (especially since the EPA is getting more stringent with truck emissions). It's actually a good deal compared to trading in every 3-5 years and taking the hit on depreciation, trade-in loss, taxes, interest and all the other fees involved in buying a car. Actually this is all BS, I'm just rationalizing and practicing what I'll tell my wife.
So Did the quarter mile time improve much with the supercharger? Was there any problems with detonation? Thanks for the input
-powerisfun
it would run ok on premium but guess what.......
it didn't,he had to run a can of octane boost every fill-up.the kit also came with a knock sensor set up and it would just back the timing up
when it started to ping (wich i couldn't hear)and the power would just go away.this continued untill
he added the ocatne boost to it.kinda sucked!
Thanks very much for your input. You've helped a great deal and I really appreciate it.
-powerisfun
This changes my thinking a lot. Because even though the power will be less than with an intercooled system (such as ATI), it comes at a price of about $1000 less. These are prices of a 6 psi boost blower.
-powerisfun
In the meantime, I'm going to try one of those performance chips. With my headers, cat-back, and cold-air induction, it should complement it nicely. I'll let you know how that goes.
-powerisfun
-powerisfun
I'm surprised that Kenne-Bell doesn't offer an intercooler for their Whipple kit. Seems to me you could sandwich something the size of a transmission radiator between the blower and the manifold rather easily. A major chunk of their prospective market is us Californicators, and most of us have to plan on running in 80+ temps much of the time.
It would be nice if they did. That'd definitely be the one I would want.
-powerisfun
it supercharged in the (near) future.
seems like there's no intercooler for the whipple
because it doesn't absolutely need it from what
i've heard.
already has lower temps, in fact, from
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com :
"The Whipple twin-screw supercharger is actually a compressor, which means it compresses air internally as well as compressing it in the manifold. Because the screw compressor compress’s the air inside the case, air enters into the pressurized envoirment with very little leakage or energy loss.
...
A screw compressor has very tight tolerances between the rotors. The rotors never touch, eliminating big parasitic and frictional losses as well as keeping the same performance year after year. "
i've also ridden in a paxton supercharged super
duty.. pretty nice
with higher boost and their intercooler for it.
What would be really nice (and my dream setup)
is to "Viperize" the v10, that is, make it as
effecient as possible (of course costing lots of
$$) then lowering the compression ratio to maybe
8:1 (or even 7.5) and increasing the boost to 13-
16 psi of a whipple charger if it goes that high--
should generate some mean numbers!
BTW, FYI: found this *very* informative technical
page on forced induction (by a mustang guy), with
thermodynamic calculations and all, covers turbos
, blowers (vortech, kenne bell) at:
http://gcoast.com/turbo/technical.html
oh yeah, here's a 530 rear wheel hp (may be
bumped to 540 soon) super duty:
http://www.fly-n-hi.com/trucknats/ryan.html
(from www.f150online.com discussion)
(the paxton's running at 8psi, no intercooler,
so that and the gale banks kit + superchip should
be over 400 rwhp; and while i didn't ask, i think
the nitro kit's worth 100+ hp)
I have read the Whipple literature and they are more efficient and stay cooler than other blowers, but even if a blower is 100% efficient (which is physically impossible), you still have the heat of
compression which is a very large amount of heat. In fact, that is the largest portion of heat generated. For an 8 psi blower (a rather tame one), the heat of compression will raise the temperature by over 100 degrees by itself (I'm a physical chemist who works with adiabatic compression a lot). Including mechanical heat and other inefficiencies, you'll get up to 120-150 degrees increase. When your pistons compress that further (at that already high starting temperature) it will bring the temperature up to the ignition point of the fuel/air mix before the spark plug sparks -----> detonation. You can help it out by using octane boost (On top of premium fuel. Higher octane means higher temp. ignition point and slower burning), but that's expensive. Using a lower temperature thermostat also helps, but that increases engine wear. Backing off the ignition timing also helps in an indirect way by lowering the engine temperature, but then you lose a large portion of the power gained by the blower.
An intercooler is a must if you want to prevent engine damage, to gain the maximum power, and not have to use octane boost. For $3000+, I want all those things.
Love those super duty trucks, by the way. Best looking trucks on the road, in my opinion. Which engine do you have?
-powerisfun
Strange thing is that whipple offers intercoolers
for their marine applications though (but i guess
that's a freebie, like turbos for diesels)..
I myself would like an intercooler though.. but
i hope the kenne bell whipple charger at 8 psi
would not cause any detonation with ambient temp
up to 100 deg./under load. Or maybe they kinda
cheat a little and don't offer an intercooler
by retarding the timing via recalibrating knock
sensor system since the kit does come with it's
own chip.
i agree; i think its looks is partly why it and
the excursion sell so well.
And I have the V10 with a few mods (pics/info at:
http://members.tripod.com/jimveta - My truck link)
difference?
I like the Excursion, but I'm not crazy about honeycomb grill. If I got one, I'd want to replace the grill with the one from the pickups or a custom one.
later,
-powerisfun
My '00 SuperDuty V10 (all black, plow package, extended cab, short box, XLT) should arrive the end of this month, a truck I ordered on 6/24/99. JimVeta, I'll repeat my question from another thread, where PowerIsFun let me know you've had experience here. I wanna put dual exhaust on my truck, but I've heard from a couple of people that the result makes the truck sound like a lawnmower or an Evinrude. I've got a '96 Tahoe right now with twin pipes that sounds great. How does the V10 Ford sound?
sounds like the wave file except with some more
treble. And actually, y2ktrd, my neighbor has
a dodge ram v10 and it sounds similar in that
both v10s don't sound like the usual big blocks.
In fact, I was told from the guy who did
my exhausts that modified ford v10s sound
viper'ish.
this topic is being "frozen." It will be archived or deleted in the next 10 days or so.
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