2007 Infiniti Q series

lexi4life

Obviously there's no information available from Infiniti but we can always discuss this future car. Anyway, I wish it's going to become as interesting as the other new Infiniti products launched a little while ago. I predict a 5.0 V8 with 6 speed automatic.

lexusguy

I think the car will be a pretty radical departure from the current one, just like the change from the old M45 to the new one. When the '91 Q came out as the sporty alternative to the LS, it had to deal with Germany, and Germany was invincible in those days. Today is a different story. If Nissan can get the interior right, and make a car that drives like a 745i with the reliability of an LS430, they may FINALLY have made a Q that works.

merc1

That may happen, but it won't be for 2007 with the car just getting a facelift for 2005. I'd say 2008 at the earliest and possibly not at all. They'll need a new platform not a stretched G35 and the sport car isn't going to work in the upper category, luxury first and then sport...BMW is the only exception to the rule and the 7-Series is far from dominate in the class.

 

M

lexusguy

Lexus traditionally replaces models 2 years after a face lift. Infiniti has said they are doing "something" that the Q wont just disappear. Nobody knows what yet though.

lexi4life

Normally, Japanese cars are lasting 5 years. The new LS will be an exception since it appeared in MY2001, was facelifted in MY2004 and is supposed to be redone in MY2007. They probably want to give themeselves time to make THE perfect car (they don't want to miss their chance). Because normally every Lexus/Infiniti is redone after 5 years. And I predict the Q will be redone in MY 2007, like the LS, because it was launched in MY2002 just before the G35 that will be redone in MY2008 (but the G35 got an earlier refresh than it was supposed to; 1 year before, like the Corolla that should've been refreshed in MY2006 but they did it in MY2005, and the car is going to exist on this form during 3 years instead of 2 after its refresh).

lexusguy

Since when do Japanese models last 5 years? The first SC ran for 8. The first LS ran for 6 or 7. This GS is just finishing up an 8 year run. The first RX ran for 6. Only the ES seems to be going on 5 year redesigns.

lexi4life

I was basing myself on Toyota's habits of replacing their models in a cycle of 5 years. And anyway, I don't think Infiniti will let the current Q in production for more than 5 years since it's a total mess in terms of sales. I don't know the real facts, but somehow they must surely loose some money with that Q?? I'm sure Infiniti wants to launch their next Q at the same time than the LS to steal any attention the Lexus would generate. And look at the old M, it wasn't long before it got a replacement (launched HERE in MY2003, discontinued in MY2005!) That's my opininon!

lexusguy

The M's early retirement is not related to it being a sales disaster. The NA version was based on a JDM Nissan model near the end of its life cycle. Just as they're getting a new Nissan Fuga, we're getting a new M45. It makes sense for Infiniti to make their move in '07 to counter Lexus, but thats only if they have a car ready to make that move.

bruce6

Is it my imagination, or has Infiniti completely failed to promote the updated Q? I have not seen a single ad anywhere.

Kirstie_H

Well... we ARE talking about a 2007 model. Doubt there'd be any advertising at this point.

lexusguy

kirstie, I think he was talking about the modest freshening Infiniti gave the Q for 2005. Bruce, its such a poor seller that Infiniti probably feels its not worth the ad dollars.

bruce6

Lexusguy is correct, I'm talking about the '05 facelift. Why spend the money to update a car if you aren't going to try to get people to buy it? If they wanted to forget about the current Q and concentrate on th '07 (and the new M in the meantime), fine, but why bother with an update at all then?

Kirstie_H

Gotcha. I've actually only seen one on the road.

lexusguy

Same here. It was a few years ago, back when Infiniti was running several ads in all the automags bragging about the Q's multi-projector headlights. When your best weapons are your fancy headlights, you've got a problem.

oac

That may happen, but it won't be for 2007 with the car just getting a facelift for 2005. I'd say 2008 at the earliest and possibly not at all. They'll need a new platform not a stretched G35 and the sport car isn't going to work in the upper category, luxury first and then sport...BMW is the only exception to the rule and the 7-Series is far from dominate in the class.

  

M

 

Couldn't agree with you more. Infiniti shot itself badly in the foot with the Q, and I think the opportunity has passed. It will take a miracle to resuscitate the Q from the morgue where it currently rests in peace !

merc1

Well I think if they can get the new M series cars onto the mid-luxury buyers shopping lists then a totally new Q, provided that it is equally impressive should be able to do somewhat better than the current model. I think the higher up in price/size class you go the tougher the market. The Audi A8, imo is wonderful car, and it just had its best sales year ever, but it still only a little less than 6K units. The Jaguar XJ was all new for 2004 and I think it did about 10K for the year. Lexus managed to crack it by going for the Mercedes formula, not sportiness first, like Infiniti did with the Q. The only large car that is truly sporty is the 7-Series and the occasional AMG S-Class, but other than that its luxury first in this class. Infiniti will have to decide in which light they want to cast a Q45 replacement. If they choose sport I predict more of the same. If they choose luxury they'll have to deal with MB, Lexus and Jaguar, not easy to do imo.

 

M

bobcatman

Infiniti is the Japanese BMW. Don't count on any soft sprung new future cars being developed. Their business plan is to take market share from BMW mainly. Who cares about whether a new Q is coming or not. The GT-R supercar will be all the talk when it rolls in 07. Over $70K price and

BMW M type power and performance.

lexusguy

The same guy has been given the position of figuring out how to sell both the M and the Q, so I figure the new Q is not going to target the LS. Infiniti knows they cant match the Lexus on luxury, so they've got to go in the other direction. I really dont how Infiniti can get a new Q to actually work in the market. Frankly, I just dont think they NEED a fullsize $60K+ sedan, they've got other things to worry about.

jchan2

Actually, most Infiniti models aren't selling too great. Only the FX, the G35 and maybe the QX56 are doing fine in terms of sales. Here's the rundown of the other three:

 

M45: A mess! I still have yet to see one on the road since it was launched. And I haven't seen any advertising.

 

I35: Yet another mess. No ads. I have seen two or three on the road, and my kid's old piano teacher bought one last year. (So I've probably seen three or four of this car)

 

Q45: Yep, another mess. I've haven't seen one on the road ever since it was launched. When your best feature is your headlights and your heated seats, you've got problems. Big problems.

lexusguy

The M45 is the car thats about to be replaced. Once it actually hits dealerships in another 2 months, except sales to increase 10 fold at least. The I35 is dead for 2005, so there's really no mess anymore. For what its worth, I've actually seen two Q45s not in an Infiniti dealership. The poor Q must solder on for another 2-3 years, and then something will happen. It will either just die like the I35, or they will replace it, but with what I have no clue.

oac

The M45 is the car thats about to be replaced. Once it actually hits dealerships in another 2 months, except sales to increase 10 fold at least

 

10-fold sales increase ! I guess when you are selling ~100 units per month, that is not that far an expectation ? BUT, are we not really infering too much about this car ? No one can predict the extent of its success - 10-fold, 1 kadzillion-fold, etc... Why not let us wait and see how the market reacts when it gets here. I don't see that many people with $45K+ to spend aiming for an Infiniti M, when there is a Bimmer (530), Audi (A6 4.2), Lexus (GS430), Acura (RL), and MB (E350) out there. Only time will tell if the M is a sector defining car, otherwise, I suspect it may not make that much dent in its sector afterall. I guess we'll see, won't we ?

merc1

Something tells me you just don't like the Infiniti M cars my friend...because that very same thing, what people are and aren't willing to pay for a 45K M, can be said about a 50K Acura and of course the Lexus GS, which has never been a sales hit either. IMO, the RL looks more vunerable than any of the Japanese cars simply because it appears you can get an M35 for less and a lightly optioned M45 for about the same price, both of which easily outperform the Acura. Honda is still dreaming about V6s competing with V8s. The RL, imo would have been a raging bargain for 43-45K. Acura is forgetting their low-priced-alternative to Lexus/Infiniti heritage with the RL, which is just as expensive.

 

M

oac

Let's just say I am a skeptic.

 

Time was when I was a SOLID Nissan fan. I owned two of them at the same time - a '96 Alt and a '96 Max. Sold the Alt after 5 yrs (and 60K trouble-free miles), and the Max after 6-years (and 120K miles) of ownership. Almost purchased a '93 J30, before I wised-up. The early Infiniti-badged Nissans were pitiful cars and I was very disappointed. Then came the M a couple years back, and it was a HUGE flop. The Q never found its footing, no thanks to poor vision and judgement at Nissan/Infiniti. I like the G (and the coupe) but hate the FX - too lumpy for my taste, and the wheels are much too large on such a wimpy frame. The Q56-badged Armada is ugly and plagued with issues, the G20/I35/QX4 were just too barren attempts that were laughable.

 

So you should understand if after being a loyal fan for 6 years and seeing how disappointing they were, I joined the "show-me" crowd, so to speak. So I am waiting to see how truly the Infiniti turnaround is before I join the bandwagon. Even then without a true high-end lux car, it may be difficult for me to take them seriously....YMMV

lexusguy

It seems like Infiniti's "we're serious" turn around is going just fine. G35 sales are doing well, and it seems like thats going to remain true for 2005 and most likely throughout the remainder of the car's probably 2-3 more years with us. Every Lexus attempt at a car like the G has nose-dived after a mere 2 years or so. Both Infiniti and Acura hit the bulls-eye with the G35 and TL, and it seems like Infiniti should repeat that with the M.

 

The RL, I dont think so. As Merc said, they got a little greedy and thought that the RL would be the value priced alternative to competitors V8s. I dont think so bub. Not when M35 and (eventually) GS350 are your competition. As for the future of the GS, I dont know. If I were Lexus, I probably would've introduced GS350 as the sole option, and when the 4.6L V8 arrives for 2007, then start offering a V8 GS. Making the GS300 suffer with the segments weakest engine just to protect at best a few hundred GS430 sales a month makes no sense to me. Nobody buys the V8.

oac

I know this is not the forum for it, BUT I really do like the new TL's styling better than the new RL. Where the TL is muscular, the RL looks effeminate. Howdid these two cars diverge so much ?

 

As for the G, its total sales FY2004 is a tad over 42K units. That ain't much to hang a hat on. Now, if its doing like 80K+ units annual, that would be something won't it ?

 

Lexus is not doing the right thing, imo, wrt the 06 GS. The design is OK, but the engine choices leave me perplexed, as I've expressed many times in my posts. If the GS comes with the 3L/4.3L combo, I think they are at a clear disadvantage against the M35/45. And Lexus may have to go back to the drawing board and get it done RIGHT.

 

As for the Q, any word on the redo I keep hearing about ? What direction will Infiniti take the car ? Hopefully, not a big brother clone of the G/M designs !!!

lexusguy

"I really do like the new TL's styling better than the new RL. Where the TL is muscular, the RL looks effeminate."

 

I agree totally with you on that one. The TL is a great looking car, probably the first Acura I can remember since the original NSX that is an attention grabber. I was excited to see the direction Acura would take the RL after doing a good job on the TSX, and a great job on the TL, and was very disappointed to see them fail so miserably. I predict good initial sales for RL, followed by a steady decline that will have dealers heavily discounting to what the RL is ultimately really worth, the low to mid 40s.

merc1

Yikes, we're totaly in sync here..lol!!! I feel the same way, but about Acura not Nissan/Infiniti. Loved the orignal Legend and the 1991-1995 model was end of an era. I still should have bought the 1995 Legend GS as a used car a few years ago. Duh! It took me years to get over them dropping the "Legend" name. That was about stupidest thing to do. They car was on its way to becoming just that, a Legend. Looking back now though its good they didn't ruin the Legend name by stamping it on the pitiful 1996-2004 RL.

 

I get what you're saying about Infiniti perfectly. I think they'll convert you before the decade ends.

 

M

lexusguy

Yeah Acura's name thing doesnt seem to make much sense. They had BIG brand names, Legend and Integra, and they dumped them for meaningless letter combinations. I understand why marquees such as Mercedes and BMW do it, to get you to say I drive a "Brand name.. model number". Except the Acura name doesnt mean much to anybody, so theres no real point to it.

jchan2

I took advantage of the I35's "mess" and bought one about a week ago for $25,800. So I guess there are some good things about the mistakes Infiniti has made. I got a pretty good car at a great price.

merc1

Yep there is always an upside to everything. THe VW Phaeton will make one hell of a used luxury car buy a few years from now.

M

jasonnb

For the money, there isn't much that comes close to the Q45. It's great having a car you don't see on every block, and great when everything keeps coming up to find out more about it.

I've had mine since 2002, and still running strong. The A8 is my next favorite, and funny how they don't sell either. One reason, noone knows about them, except us.

jchan2

What's so funny is that I see Lexuses (or is it Lexii?) on almost every corner in almost every subdivision I've drive through. I also see quite a few in the parking lots I park in, and I see them showing up at stoplights. So it does make me feel special that I drive something other than a Lexus. (not to mention I got a wonderful deal)

iancar

In Japan, they already have a sedan that build on the Q's platform but price much higher than the Q. They call that car, "president", and Q45 is called "Cima". Both car priced above Toyota's flagship "Celsior" (LS430). In Japan, the people who brought these cars would not drive, they let their drivers do that. I was supprised when Nissan did not bring "president" to the US back in 2002, but i believe the new LS for JApanese Lexus will price and equiped above "President" and become the most expensive production sedan from Japanese homeland brands.

k_mitsui

Even if the new LS comes out in about 2 years, their pricing would not exceed the Toyota Century sedan since it's a class higher than the LS sedan.
Ken

rjlaero

The M45 is already pushing 60k. Don't know where Infiniti would go with pricing on a new Q.

It would have to be a killer car to get into the 70k plus range and compete with the competition of the S class, 7 series, & A8.

merc1

It would have to be a killer car to get into the 70k plus range and compete with the competition of the S class, 7 series, & A8.

I'm waiting to see how they're going to play it. A big soft luxury car like a LS wouldn't fit in with their other models and its going to be hard to top the 7-Series as a drivers car, while giving a luxury ride. I don't think people buying a 70K car will put up with the enthusiastically sporty ride quality of a M45 Sport. BMW seems to be the only that can get away with a large luxury car that has a truly firm ride.

M

chris65amg

Not to forget that Porsche will also bring a large sedan to the market in 2008....

jchan2

A big soft luxury car like a LS wouldn't fit in with their other models

I think that's why they killed the I35- doesn't feel at all like the rest of the Infiniti line does.

So I guess Infiniti will try to make it sporty, like a BMW 7-Series, but more reliable...

merc1

So I guess Infiniti will try to make it sporty, like a BMW 7-Series, but more reliable...

That will be tricky. I don't think anyone else can get away with that firm of a ride in the premium luxury class. Most buyers like the S, LS, XJ, Phaeton, type (smooth) of ride, not the 7-Series, imo.

M

cybersol

That will be tricky. I don't think anyone else can get away with that firm of a ride in the premium luxury class. Most buyers like the S, LS, XJ, Phaeton, type (smooth) of ride, not the 7-Series, imo.

I think they should make it slightly softer than the 7 series but more firm than any of the others. Then use whatever tricks they can to make it handle like a smaller, lighter car than it will be.

However, the big concern to me is that NVH is unacceptable in the big gun class. It should handle and perform well with good road feel, but it should be silent and smooth as glass. Any noise or harshness over the best in class will be perceived as being unrefined. Being unrefined is deadly to sales in this class.

Enjoy, cybersol

merc1

However, the big concern to me is that NVH is unacceptable in the big gun class. It should handle and perform well with good road feel, but it should be silent and smooth as glass. Any noise or harshness over the best in class will be perceived as being unrefined. Being unrefined is deadly to sales in this class.

This is true. They're going to have to burn the midnight oil and really sweat the details to achieve the right balance between sport and luxury as to not alienate too many buyers from both sides. I can't see Infiniti making a large car handle so well without some harshness that the average LS/S/XJ buyer wouldn't find objectionable.

M

jchan2

I was thinking somewhere in between a Lexus LS430 and the BMW 745i. More like the Audi A8...

chris65amg

I think that the next Q is going to have trouble. Infiniti hasn't gained the rep. for sport that BMW currently enjoys, so it will be hard "getting away" with a 7-Series-esque car. I have no doubt that it will be more expensive than the previous Q. I personally like the current Q, but it is sandwiched in an uncomfortable marketing postion pricewise between the American fullsizers (DeVille, Town Car, yuck) and the big European metal (S, 745, A8, Phaeton, Quattroporte, XJ.) The fact that the oh-so-smooth-like-butter Lexus LS is right in it's price range is the reason that the Q isn't selling too well.

They have to make it a little more dynamic for the next gen, and then as soon as they're seen as serious game by BMW enthusiasts, THEN they redesign for a 7-Series feel. In other words, they should take small steps into this super sport sedan market, not a huge jump.

jchan2

Maybe something that feels more like an Audi A8?

merc1

Maybe something that feels more like an Audi A8?

Exactly! I forgot all about the A8 in my earlier posts about what kind of car Infiniti should come up with for the next Q45. The A8L kinda sits in between the S/LS/XJ and the 7-Series in the sport/luxury compromise.

M

jchan2

Infiniti be tempted to build an AWD model?

chris65amg

The Q isn't exactly the best seller, so I doubt that Infiniti would sell a seperate AWD model. However, if they are going to be like the A8, which is probably the best target to aim for, AWD is almost necessary. They can't aim for the LS, as LS buyers are pretty likely to buy another LS. It would be awful difficult to hit an XJ target, as the XJ has an aura about it. Not exactly sure why it would be hard. Also, the XJ isn't exactly the highest target, or the best selling. The S would be the safest target, but the A8 is the best rounded to be competed against. No pun intended.

jchan2

Infiniti is trying to build two model lines- RWD models and AWD models, seperated by an x on the end of the name. (G35x, M35x, etc)

andy2343

I'm assuming you're talking about the old M45. Because Infiniti's been pretty big on advertising the new M. And before they cut the I35, it was Infiniti's best selling model.

jchan2

it was the best selling model, at least until the G35 came out...

And yes, I was talking about the old M45.

jasonnb

I love my 2002 Q45. I also created a personal website on my car, which I think is one of the few, or only one out there. I'm sure you've seen it at the get.to addy.

Love this car, and it gets look every day.