2006 Toyota RAV4

boywonder2

I saw the new Rav4 a few days ago. Although it was under black camouflage, it appears to be bigger than the current version but smaller than the Highlander. I would say it is about the length/size of the Saturn Vue with the spare on the outside. It also appears to be boxier.

petl

Where did you see it?

chris65amg

I don't doubt you, as I saw some Tribecas around Lafayette a while back. Where'd you see them? Usually Toyota is pretty secretive to say the least. Smaller than a Highlander, eh? Was the spare on the back?

ravman

4 cyl Nov 16, 2005
V6 Jan 20, 2006

Just for clarification... these dates are when the 2006 RAV4 first arrives at the US ports. Not when it goes on sale at dealerships.

boywonder2

Saw it around Toyota HQ in Torrance California and the spare is on the back.

chris65amg

Aw....I was hoping for one in the normal position, but oh well.

nippononly

why it is so darn popular for the spare to swing on the tailgate on these cute utes. I used to think it was so the manufacturers could maximize interior space for the numbers race, but people really seem to like the look too.

I only had to see those IIHS test videos once, where they back into an object at low speeds and that rear-mounted spare crumples the whole back end of the car, to dislike this design.

jchan2

Toyota (and Honda, to an extent) like to keep everything secret until the absolute last minute

Over on the Sienna and Odyssey boards, we saw some pictures and heard some details, but the original Sienna pictures were waaaaay off and the details on the Odyssey came from a person claiming to be a Honda insider. (that is, he said he works for Honda)

jchan2

A picture of a new RAV4-sized Lexus SUV to go head-to-head against the X3. The car debuts in the Spring of 2007. Complete with a picture (in teal-color), the car looks like a smaller-sized HPX concept. Looks realllyyyy good (Len, you will like it).... Double yum !!

That's news from the 2007 Lexus LS board....

Guess I was right about a Lexus RAV4...

wwest

Is my dream...RAV4 hybrid using the 2.3L I4.

jchan2

Doesn't the RX already have a hybrid though?

How about the Lexus MX230h?

wwest

Sure, a hybrid touting V8 performance but not fuel economy...

Going after the boy-racer market I guess.

jchan2

True. I'd like to see a Lexus Hybrid touting economy priced at $45,000...

Guess that's the Highlander Hybrid's territory...

chris65amg

Lexus hybrids sell because they are chic. That's it. Some extra horsepower, and you get to hold it over your neighbor whose FX35 gets 20mpg.

Toyota's hybrids= less power, less prestige, less fuel.

nippononly

except....don't the HL and RX hybrids have identical powertrains?

They should have a RAV hybrid next time out - this is a car that has never had earth-shaking fuel economy.

petl

In the small SUV segment the RAV's overall mpg is 21. It is equal to the Forester (21) and the CRV (21) and better than the Outlander (20), Element (20), Vue (19), Escape (18), Tribute (18), Santa Fe (18), Equinox (17), XL-7 (17), Freelander (17), Sorento (15), Liberty (15). I'm not sure if any of these are earth-shaking. However, the RAV's is at the high end of what the others are getting. It has a better mpg rating than any (non-hybrid) SUV sold to date. The only vehicles that have a higher mpg rating are these wagons/hatchbacks... Vibe, Matrix and Focus. Should there be a hybrid RAV? Possibly. Is the RAV's fuel economy terrible? I don't think so.

chris65amg

"except....don't the HL and RX hybrids have identical powertrains? "

Yeah. Yeah, they do....

nippononly

Sorry, didn't mean to imply fuel economy was "terrible", that is why I used the words "not earth shaking". Which it isn't. All the sub-20s you quote there are V-6s with lots of extra speed over the RAV. The 20-and-ups are a minority in the list you provide.

These are small vehicles - basically high-roofed cars with the most rudimentary of AWD systems - so I wish they would do better for gas saving. In an age when Toyota manages to extract high 30s from the Corolla fairly easily, I would like to see high 20s in the RAV on which it is based.

As it is, if I were looking for something a little less trucky than my Runner, which probably will be replaced with an FJ or an XTerra (crappy gas mileage all around), I would be waiting for EPA numbers in this segment to rise quite a bit before shopping.

The Escape V-6 was only about five points lower in fuel economy than RAV is, yet it paid off for them to make a hybrid of that model...which soundly trounces RAV on gas mileage (at a higher price of course).....

cammer2

I may be mistaken, but doesn't the Escape hybrid use the 4-cylinder, instead of the V6?

nippononly

you are right - they use the four in the hybrid model. I was unclear, but meant "they made a hybrid of the Escape". And in fact, the hybrid is faster than the 4-cyl Escape, roughly halfway between the two gas Escapes in power, in fact.

I see that Mitsubishi has announced that for '07 the Outlander will offer only the 3.0 V-6 as the standard engine, and this has me worried that Toyota WILL play the hp game with RAV. I would still rather they have a hybrid and a 4-cyl, than a 4-cyl and a 6-cyl.

alpha01

Do you really think Toyota sees the non-selling Outlander as an actual threat? Now, if we were talking about the CR-V or Forester, or even Sportage/Tucson, I'd say you have a point. But Mitsu's slide will continue and Toyota's strategy isnt going to change based on a player that commans less than one percent of the market (share continually declining).

jmho

~alpha

cammer2

Threat or no .. I guess I would prefer to see a hybrid 4-cylinder as well. (Not that I have a problem with the RAV offering a V6 - would just like to see the 4-cylinder/hybrid option if one is more inclined to fuel economy than performance)

nippononly

Absolutely, absolutely. Mitsu is not the primary competition. But it does set a precedent. Tucson/Sportage have the optional V-6, and are expected to sell with a V-6-heavy mix. Forester has the turbo now, up 20 hp to 230 for '06, and with virtually the same fuel economy as the 4-cyl RAV with 70 less hp. And the Forester mix has been leaning towards the turbo more and more too. There's no Nissan and I am sure we all know that Ford doesn't sell any 4-cyl Escapes. So that leaves CRV, which is a bigger and much more popular vehicle. And I don't think we can rule out a bigger engine for the CRV next time around either, as it seems likely it will do some parts-sharing with the RDX coming next year as an Acura, which will probably have a V-6.

Toyota should not be getting edged out on the fuel economy front by a turbo competitor with 50% more power. So I say go for a hybrid next time with the RAV. But it was not mentioned anywhere on Toyota's official rundown of coming hybrid models, so I don't hold out a lot of hope.

alpha01

being that just because Mitsu moves to a standard V6 doesnt mean that Toyota will. Its not as if Honda or Subaru or Hyundai are moving to higher power standard variants, and ditching the economical options, there all still there, for those that want them. That said, if Toyota's new 2.5L V6 that debuts in the Lexus IS can achieve better MPG in a RAV incarnation than the RAV's current 2.4L, I would say.... why not? Its got 40 more horses than the 2.4L and about 20 foot pounds more twist as well.

Toyota has already demonstrated incredible fuel efficiency with the new Avalon, rated at 280 hp and 22/31, weighing in at 3600 lbs.

~alpha

nippononly

can you imagine a RAV250 with fuel economy like 25/30 for the 4WD? Now THAT would be worth the extra money for the optional engine! :-)

Hasn't there been some whispering about there perhaps being a Lexified RAV appearing around 2008? It could use the 2.5 V-6!

wwest

V8 performance for a RAV4....

NOT!

nippononly

chris65amg

Are you talking about a V8 in a Rav4??? That's silly.

carnovice3

I just called my local Toyota dealer, who advised that the '06 RAV4 will be 6 cylinders, and will be almost as big as the Highlander (she also advised the Highlander will be bigger as well). The sales woman didn't have too much information at this point. I have to admit, I am now confused as to whether to wait it out or get an '05 Rav4. I would really like the added space (and 3rd row), but really wanted to have a manual shift (the saleswoman could not confirm whether the '06 Rav4 would come in a manual shift). Anyone have any words of wisdom? Any suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

toyotaken

From what I've heard so far, the RAV-4 redesign will start with a 4cyl model only with a V6 following about 2-3 months after. Size should be just a bit smaller than the highlander without a 3rd row available. I have yet to see any of the car-based SUV's built by Toyota EVER come available with a manual transmission and even on the Truck based models, the upgraded engine choices almost always eliminate the option of a 5sp.

Hope this helps.

Ken

nippononly

the RAV DOES currently come with a 5-sp manual as the base transmission. My local dealer has a nice black one, 'L' package, AWD.

I bet the next one will still have a base 5-speed to keep the base price down for advertising purposes. I really hope it doesn't grow too much - "slightly smaller than the Highlander" would be too big IMO.

I am sure if there is an optional V-6, it will be automatic-only.

chris65amg

"slightly smaller than Highlander", eh?

Sounds like they're aiming at the Equinox.

I hope they don't take a price jump. I actually like the RAV4, but if it's going to be so big.... but then again, don't automakers sometime say "slightly" when they mean "waaay"?

gordonr

"slightly smaller than Highlander" might mean it's more like the size of a CR-V.

If you look at the numbers, the current CR-V is closer to a Highlander in size than it is to the RAV4 which it's usually compared with...

RAV-4 Length:166.6"
CR-V Length: 181.0"
Highlander Length: 184.6"

RAV-4 Width: 68.3"
CR-V Width: 70.2"
Highlander Width: 71.9"

RAV-4 Height: 65.4"
CR-V Height: 66.2"
Highlander Height: 68.3"

RAV-4 Passenger Volume: 82.0 cu ft
CR-V Passenger Volume: 106.0 cu ft
Highlander Passenger Volume: 104.7 cu ft (assume only 1st & 2nd rows)

RAV-4 Cargo Volume: 29.2 cu ft
CR-V Cargo Volume: 33.5 cu ft
Highlander Cargo Volume: 39.7 cu ft

Maybe what Toyota is doing is shooting for the CR-V from a competitive standpoint.

wheelz4

I think you're right, gordonr, as the Rav4 has always played 2nd fiddle to the cr-v size-wise. Makes sense to grow it, not only to meet or beat the competition, but also knowing that the next Highlander will also be growing to be a true 7 seater to match the larger Honda Pilot (and new Santa Fe). Still would like to see the Rav get a +2 option along the lines of the new Mazda5 (and it should be possible for Toyota, given that their Corolla Verso has the extra seats and is only about 172" long) as the Highlander is a bit out of our price league. Throw in an extremely fuel-efficient V6 (they did wonders with the new Avalon's) and you would have a very compelling vehicle.

jchan2

look HUGE.

wheelz4

where's post# 86?

carnovice3

Have you seen the new RAV??

c14

The 2006 RAV4 will be redesigned and have an optional 6 cyl. I understnad Honda will be offering a 6 too to compete. The 2006 RAV4 will be unveiled at the Tokyo International Auto Show.

petl

When is the Tokyo show?

jchan2

my comment was regarding the picture on post 86.

upstateny5

Starts Oct. 22nd - does this mean the 2006 RAV will not be available before this?

vcarreras

What I've seen 06 RAV 12/05 and the V6 RAV 02/06.

http://www.donlen.com/buildstart_toyota.asp

This data comes from Canada but would think it would be the same for the US.

upstateny5

Wow - I can't seem to win with Toyota - I have a deposit on a base model Highlander Hybrid with no info at all on when base models are going to see increased production - thought a RAV4 with increased size might be the perfect alternative but I leave for Florida at the end of Dec. and must have a car by then. Hope my 1990 Corolla with almost 200,000 miles can keep plugging away.

vcarreras

Does anyone know if the V-6 is same one that will power the Lexus IS250? 2.5 liter with about 200hp! Also transmissions..hopefully the 5 speed automatic for the 4 cylinder...and maybe 5 or 6 speed MT/AT for the V-6??

biker4

That would be a pretty expensive engine (DI) to put in a entry level SUV. Size and powerwise it would make sense.

chris65amg

It would be expensive. However, it would also spread costs pretty well. I thought that the 2.5L was only suited for RWD/AWD duty for the moment, but they could change it.....

alpha01

In the past, Toyota's engines families typically had defined roles in RWD, FWD, or 4WD/AWD applications. That is no longer true.

The new family of V6s that Toyota is introducing will see many different applications. The originally introduced engine was the 4.0L V6 in the 4Runner, obviously a RWD/4WD application. However, the 3.5L, which is based on that engine, is used in the FWD Avalon. Its pretty certain that once the Lexus LS460 debuts, the GS will become the GS460 and the V6 GS will then become the GS350, using the 3.5L an RWD/AWD application.

My point: it seems that Toyota's engine families are no longer limited in use with a designate drive wheel layout.

~alpha

nippononly

but the other poster's point about the DI is a good one - expensive technology to put in a $23K RAV4. It will be another year before the Highlander (most likely) gets DI in the 3.5. And the passenger cars at the same price point don't get it yet.

RAV4 always seems to get cast-off engines - maybe it will get the 3.0 from the current Camry.

biker4

Even tho the Avalon uses the same 3.5 block as the one in the non US GS350 (and upcoming IS350 and others) it does so without DI. So maybe the RAV will use that 2.5V6 but with less expensive plumbing and fuel system. The 2.5V6 is used in the Japanese market for some lesser Toyota offerings.

The layout might be a factor tho - the small engine bay may mean a longititudinal install - meaning 4WD only. Which would make sense - there won't be a striper V6 version.

neumie2000

Well, who knows how accurate these pictures are, but they may be better than anything we've seen so far. Check it out.

http://www.1000islandstoyota.com/newsite/pages/spypage.html