All true, but keep in mind those pioneers were designed for Japan, i.e. right-hand drive markets. And in those markets, the opening faces the curb, for easy loading.
When they imported the cars, they cut a few costs by not reversing the door hinges.
OK, fine, they rushed the first generations over here and wanted to be the first car-based compact SUV in the US.
They didn't fix this for the 2nd generation, which surprised me.
For the 3rd generation, they could have flipped the door, have it swing open the right way. It's not rocket science.
Driving in to work, I noticed that the radio display was blank, while I was listening to a radio station. I pressed a few of the channel buttons, but nothing would happen. I tried to turn the radio off, and it would not turn off. All of a sudden, the display came back on but it looked like ancient Hieroglyphics all scrambled up and moving. It did this for 30 seconds to 1 minute. I pressed the channel buttons again, and everything seemed to go back to normal and work fine for the rest of the trip.
This can not be a good sign for things to come. Were there solar flares this morning
Looks like details are starting to emerge about what's new for 2007 Rav4 in Canada. The biggest changes from what I read are that all models (Base/Sport/Limited) will now have side impact air bags as standard and that the Sport will now have a "B" package which will consist of a power moonroof. Looks like everything else pretty much stays the same. Pricing has not yet been announced and I'm told delivery will be in December/January.
This info is dated June 26th. I got a PDF with the details from my local dealer (Southern Ontario) so I'd expect that all Canadian dealers should be able to provide the same info.
This happened to me about two weeks ago. When I got to my destination, I turned off the car, and restarted it and it was fine. I took it to the dealer, and they ordered me a new radio, and replaced it.
I was very reluctant about this feature having had my last 3 SUV type vehicles w/top opening rear hatches. Now that I've been able to slide in a full size oven, and than a full size dishwasher from home depot, (two separate trips) into my RAV, it sold itself as far as more room and ease than any of the available SUV's of its size. The only thing that could improve the side opening door is if it opened the opposite way. I also don't have to open the garage door in order to retrieve something from the back cargo area as I used to do with all my other cars. I did not think the quality of the honda came close to the toyota,it seemed to have very cheap features.
I doubt that Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Sony, etc. design anything "for Japan" these days. They look at the world market and choose where to make compromises to keep increasing market share while keeping the number of models, parts, etc. manageable.
Even if they don't have a shop nearby, considering the cost of a new OEM wheel, I think I'd consider shipping the damaged wheel to em for repair if I had a driveable spare!
I towed my boat, 2400+ lbs, with V6. No problem. It's a good towing car.
However, I towed the same boat with Subaru with 4-cyl engine at speeds 70+ mph.
Towing is not such a big deal as most people think. You have to use common sense, load your trailer properly (plenty of tongue weight), and use trailer brakes.
One more comment on this feature. As I heard from my wife (who drives RAV4) and her woman friend (who drives CRV), the side opening door is a chick feature, some women may be too short to reach a tall hatch.
The rear door works perfectly for us. We don't clunk our heads on it like we did with our '96 4Runner with its rear door that swung up (we're 6' and 6'2"). As an added bonus, when I have my hands full with grocery bags, it's easy to swing shut by giving it a gentle hip-check. With the 4Runner's door, you had to have a free hand to give a big tug to shut it.
It would be great if the rear window could open like it did on our 4Runner. It was easy to create a nice breeze by leaving the fan on low and the rear window opened a crack. BUT. I don't miss vacuuming off a thick layer of dust from all the surfaces including the ceiling every few months; rear windows that roll down end up sucking in a lot of dust. Still, it would be nice if it would flip up like the CRV's do, just for quick loading.
Thought you guys would like this. It was in the Sunday Chicago Tribune's auto letters section:
Question: I've been shopping for a sport-utility and can't believe that a Toyota RAV4 with the new V6 gets such great gas mileage on regular unleaded. Some SUV's resort to using premium fuel, like the price of gas isn't high enough. But the RAV4 has a high compression ratio of 10.8 to 1 and that would seem to indicate premium fuel.
Answer: The high compression ratio may have dictated the use of premium fuel years ago, but with today's fuel-injection systems and engine management controls, that's not the case now, according to Toyota's spokesman Mike Michels. "The engine management system automatically adjusts spark timing to accomodate the octane of the fuel used and help allow higher compression ratios to boost horsepower," michles said. "In many vehicles premium unleaded is recommended because by doing so the car gets the advertised horsepower from the higher octane. In most cases using regular grade fuel doesn't hurt anything, and most people don't know the difference," Michels said.
Many of Toyota's new models, Lexus included, have a V6 engine that uses SFI, Sequential Fuel Injection, and DFI, Direct Fuel Injection.
With DFI a "lean-burn" technique can be used wherein the overall fuel/air mixture ratio is leaner than has been typical for SFI only. The idea is to use DFI to inject a relatively small amount of additional fuel very near the sparkplug just as the piston reaches TDC directly into the combustion chamber.
The result is a "rich" mixture only at/near the sparkplug at the start, beginning of the flame front. Next thing we know it will be kerosene via the SFI and 92 octane via DFI.
I have the JBL 9 speakers and sub. My RAV was just days old when exactly what you describe happened. It played fine, but the LED freaked out or was entirely blank. Dealer replaced. New one has no issues.
Black '06 Limited Leather w/heat Tow package Moon Roof
I've got a 2003 Buick Rendezvous and am thinking of trading it for a Rav4. Are there any golfers out there who can tell me how the clubs fit in the back? I can fit 4 sets now...seems like it may be tight in the Rav4.
Sorry if this has been mentioned - I tried searching to no avail. I'm cross shopping with a Passat Wagon. Can someone with a tape measure handy post the cargo width and height at the rear door? (What's the biggest sized box that can be put in back) thanks, much appreciated.
Well I don't own one yet but have measured and compared to Passat wagon also! So RAV4 is 44" wide at floor between wheel wells, 52.5" wide above wheel wells and about 54-55 wide forward and aft of wheel wells with the 2nd row seats stowed. A digaonal from the floor at one wheel well to the roof on the oposite side is about 53 inches. From the rear door to the back of the front seats in a normal position is about 74". It is about 76" with the seat forward. I do not know the height at the rear door but my guess says it will be about 53 inches or so based on the diagonal meas. I made.
The Passat is 40 to 47 wide depending where you are along the floor and the wheel wells.
My primary hauling needs are large model airplanes so the RAV4 seems good for that
Since I am presently an Audi owner and the new A6 Avant is like $48K I have been looking at RAV4 and Passat. Both are different but practical in their own ways. The rear volume, 269HP AWD,handling, reliability and $26K purchase price for the RAV4 Sport will probably do it for me. The 2.0T Passat has lots if nice features but the reliability problems I see here are scary. The 4 year warranty is good if you lease end or sell at the end of that time. But the warranty does not make up for the lost time and grief if the car is broken often.
By the way, two Audis, both about perfect in spite of what you read here so maybe the VW stuff is over rated here Good luck
The rear door has been a deal killer for several people I know. For me its still in the limbo stage and I'm waiting to see what the 2007 CR-V will offer up. The CR-V potentially will have a better rear view (no spare sticking up in the window) as well as the hatch is nice on adverse weather day's. I believe the strength of the RAV4 is good mileage in a good size vehicle.
If you remove the floor in the rear, it will reveal a fairly large cavity which will allow you to place 4 sets of golf clubs (cart bags) upright with loads of room to spare behind the second row. You are also able to slide the second row forward giving you even more room. Vic
You must not have been checking your rear view mirror very well. Its definitely there and sometimes its blocking the view of a person who just decided to walk out behind you even though your reverse lamps were lit or any other number of possible scenarios. Don't get me wrong on the RAV4, its a neat, roomy, vehicle thats good on the mpg. It just has a flawed rear door design.
I don't find the rear wheel a hinderance at all. In a perfect world it wouldn't be there, but no way can I claim that it substantially blocks my view. And I look in my rear view mirror all the time.
I have owned a 97 Rav4 and now own a 06 Rav4. The door and tire are not a problem. Get over it. There are plenty of vehicles out there with worse problems than this. The rear spare must stick up a few inches. You actually think it will block the view of someone walking behind you? May I suggest an AMC Pacer. It had plenty of glass.
I bought a RAV4 V6 sport two weeks ago. It is a nice car. But I do have two questions: When I pedal down the brake slightly, I get the feeling of slight speeding up! I really do not think it is my illusion! Of course, when I pedal down harder, the brake dose work. The same funny thing happens to my gas pedal: when I pedal it down slightly, it seems the car slows down.
The other thing is the revolving speed when the car is started became 1500 rpm recently. It was just several hundreds a week ago.
The good , the bad and the Ugly after our 5 hour first 5 hour trek in our new RAV.....
The Good: The Rav is roomy. There appears even more leg room (thus a bit more distance between me and the kids) in the new RAV than our 02 Camry. The little trunk area in the 06 RAV (if you forgo the 3rd seat)provides much more storage room than I anticipated. We were able to pack for 4 and still close the rear cover! Note though the the cover's design does not fully hide the trunk's contents unless you slide the rear seat all the way back and recline the rear seats. A bad design in my opinion. Acceleration with the 4 cylinder was more than adaquate. Again, I think peppier than my 4 cylinder 02 Camry...though a bit slower with the AC on. We drove thru much rain and flooding. The AWD worked flawlessly; I never felt out of control. The ride was comfortable though after a few hours I longed for a little more thigh support, just above the knees. I did sit up straight and this helped. The Rav is quiet, not nearly as quiet as the Camry but not bad. It was a nice 5 hour trip.
The Bad: Not having a cargo light really is a pain. Not having the doors autolock is still a pain. No great/convenient spot for change, some may argue I guess. The standard radio's sound quality (or speaker or speaker location) really stinks. It seams the speakers need to be mounted higher or something. We found that in order to hear the streo you had to turn it up louder than you would normally want to. Gas milage was 26pmg, pure highway, driving 60 - 80 mph with the AC on. I really expected a little more.
The Ugly: Door pillar rattles! What a nightmare. It was not so bad on the way back as I had brought the head rest from one of my Camry seats and wedged it between the RAV seat and door pillar. It helped a bit. I will have Toyoyta try to quiet the noise in each pillar (passenger side too). If not then I will ask for a matching pair of RAV head rests and create my own accessory! We had a leak the on evening after a storm. Enough water came in thru the floor vent on the passenger side that we could pour the water off into the street. I am unsure how this happened...another item for my next visit.
Mind to tell me if your new RAV4 was made in Japan or elsewhere? (Take a look at the Serial No. through the windshield and if the serial No. starts with a "J" then it was made in Japan.
My brother got his from Japan and he doesn't have any of those problems as you mentioned. :confuse:
Yes, the old 'its made in America with inferior plastics and people' will not float here. It was made in Japan. I noticed the overall 'rattle' quality had degraded in my 02 Camry. I had hoped it was an anomoly but apprantly not. I still hold out hope my door pillar issues are limited to a select few. I had the same hopes for my Camry but sadly many were and still are affected. The Camry has been mechanically trouble free as I hope the RAV will be. You can see though where they have started to cut costs...only one door lock on the whole car, no auto lock feature when pulling out, thinner plastics etc. Still the Rav is king of the hill. The new CRV is coming though. I saw some pictures. I think the Rav looks better and 'trukier'. The new V drops the tire off the hatch so it can open up and down. I like the rear tire myself. We'll see how the RAV stacks up.
I think the main reason for the swing rear door is the exterior spare wheel, which is a tradeoff for interior storage/available 3rd row.
Also, a full sized spare is a bonus (especially in Alaska), but on mine with 17" wheels, the spare is a different wheel! What a waste; now I can't rotate through all five tires without a mismatch. Does anyone know if it's bad to use the spare for regular driving since it's different?
Its the weak part of the vehicle. A dumb move by Toyota to have it there. Unsafe and ugly. Funny if you read your posts it sounds like you're being defensive about it. Doesn't block it substantially and there are other vehicles worse you guys say. Brand loyalty. But you can just keep on cheerleading for Toyota as you're doing a great job of it.
It is odd Toyota left the rear door design alone. Stranger too, they allowed the tire to move up. I personally like the look of the tire on the back. Funny, while shopping we looked a a Forester. I can not tell you how many times we saw a Highlander from the side in the distance and thought it was a Subaru. I think the tire on the back makes it look less like a wagon. Nevertheless they could have had the tire swing out and the hatch up. I guess thats double the work though. Strange too the did not reverse the hinges. My only real issue is that if I want to load something big enough I likely can not take advantage of all my cargo room since the door, off to the side, is in the way. Brand Loyalty or not, they could have done better. My sister's Nissan has a cool camera / screen in her car that greatly assists with backing up. One day this may be standard equipment. It works well.
I wonder if not moving the hatch hinge has anything to do with the safety cage design ... you'd think moving the hatch would not be as big a deal as moving the steering wheel and controls, and they seem to do that with ease.
There must be something more to it than simple beancounting.
Well in a way the hatch/tire thing is a RAV4 trade mark I think and even with the mixed whining here, it has advantages of volume and storage space. I suspect that the market research said it is a mostly positive thing.
They are selling all the RAV4s they can make at a big profit so by definition, right now to Mr. Toyota, the 2006 RAV4 is perfect!
I aggree. Keeping it back there allowed for a third row seat, which is what made me consider the new RAV at all. It clued me on to how much bigger it was, even though I went without the third row (love that storage space).
I have a 4cyl. LTD. I've noted accasionaly hesitation, which surprise surprise, Toyota says is normal. Go figure. It's much worse with A/C on and don't say it's cause of it being a 4 cyl. unless typical of Toyota's? I had a 4 cyl. Accord once and never experienced. Anyway, a few times i've had what i'd consider a more serious hesitation. Once slowing almost to a stop and :surprise: acclerating, and 2 or 3 times from a traffic light. Pulling out, accelerating and experience was as though trans or whatever got lost. Nearly panicked the first couple times, pushed down on acclerator more, then it downshifted, then eventually moved faster. Now tell me thats normal Toyota. Has anyone else experienced or had repaired etc.? Haven't gone in for 1st oil change, check yet. Other than that love the car, although mileage not where it should be (in fact seems worse of late) after 2500 miles.
Agree. Overall i don't mind the rear door other than the fact the glass doesn't raise up. Opening from driver side actually better for me, since closer when i get in/out of car, and only park in drive, or in parking lots anyway. New 2007 CRV losing rear tire, so that could move it to top of preverred small SUV list. But no biggie with RAV4. Like the extra under floor storage anyway.
Well there are many many reports at other RAV4 web sites of what your describing. More I4 but some V6. No solutions so far but some people are notify the NHSTA as a major safety issue.
The RAV is my third Toyota and I like them because they are built great. I don't care about any tires blocking my view; minor inconvenience. All vehicles have pros and cons, but not all vehicles are built the same. The RAV will have great reliablility, great resale value and will not leave me standing on the side of the road. I want a vehicle that gets me from point A to point B today, tomorrow and ten years from now, reliably, and overall no one does that better than Toyota. Are some RAV owners having problems, yes. We spend a thousand bajillion dollars on the Space Shuttle, with thousands of engineers going over it with a fine tooth comb and it still malfunctions. It and the RAV are built by humans and we are imperfect.
Actually this engine delay/hesitation issue/symptom seems to be most prevalent on the entire Toyota/Lexus FWD or front torque biased AWD product line. There are a few complaints of/about other T/L products but the clear majority of complaints seem to be as above.
The problem seems to have come to light initially with the introduction of DBW, e-throttle, on some 2002 models. IMMHO the problem had its origins in Toyota's adoption of ASL, Aggressive Shift Logic, late in the last century.
The latest TSB, or newest factory firmware version, seems to alleviate some effects but in favor of the engine occassionally going over-speed during downshifts.
I have a 2006 RAV4 we bought in January. The rear window simply blew out last Saturday after sitting in our driveway from the night before. Nothing hit it...there was no precipitation, it wasn't sitting totally in the sun, temp was around 75-80 degrees, rear passenger/driver windows down about two inches to promote air flow.. witnessed this event. Car sat on hill in driveway...rear end higher than front end... Lots of glass outside of rear window..hardly any inside! Have lots of pictures!! Toyota was absolutely no help whatsoever! No local dealers open (it was Saturday before 4th of July).. Anyone else experience anything like this??? First Toyota and probably last Toyota purchase.. :mad:
Comments
When they imported the cars, they cut a few costs by not reversing the door hinges.
OK, fine, they rushed the first generations over here and wanted to be the first car-based compact SUV in the US.
They didn't fix this for the 2nd generation, which surprised me.
For the 3rd generation, they could have flipped the door, have it swing open the right way. It's not rocket science.
-juice
This can not be a good sign for things to come.
Were there solar flares this morning
Anyone else have this happen?
This info is dated June 26th. I got a PDF with the details from my local dealer (Southern Ontario) so I'd expect that all Canadian dealers should be able to provide the same info.
-juice
Now that I've been able to slide in a full size oven, and than a full size dishwasher from home depot,
(two separate trips) into my RAV, it sold itself as far as more room and ease than any of the available SUV's of its size.
The only thing that could improve the side opening door is if it opened the opposite way.
I also don't have to open the garage door in order to retrieve something from the back cargo area as I used to do with all my other cars.
I did not think the quality of the honda came close to the toyota,it seemed to have very cheap features.
(By the way, the Japanese Toyota catalog shows a lot of models that I have never seen in North America, including a Sienta that goes 44.6 mpg... For the "Toyota-curious": http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/environmental_rep/04/download/pdf/c18_25.pdf)
Wheel Repair
I towed my boat, 2400+ lbs, with V6. No problem. It's a good towing car.
However, I towed the same boat with Subaru with 4-cyl engine at speeds 70+ mph.
Towing is not such a big deal as most people think. You have to use common sense, load your trailer properly (plenty of tongue weight), and use trailer brakes.
It would be great if the rear window could open like it did on our 4Runner. It was easy to create a nice breeze by leaving the fan on low and the rear window opened a crack. BUT. I don't miss vacuuming off a thick layer of dust from all the surfaces including the ceiling every few months; rear windows that roll down end up sucking in a lot of dust. Still, it would be nice if it would flip up like the CRV's do, just for quick loading.
Just how often do any of us come upon a situation where there is a need for truly PANIC braking, or braking of a really SEVERE nature...??
Too much weight on the rear hitch at that time can lead to a very HAZARDOUS situation.
Question: I've been shopping for a sport-utility and can't believe that a Toyota RAV4 with the new V6 gets such great gas mileage on regular unleaded. Some SUV's resort to using premium fuel, like the price of gas isn't high enough. But the RAV4 has a high compression ratio of 10.8 to 1 and that would seem to indicate premium fuel.
Answer: The high compression ratio may have dictated the use of premium fuel years ago, but with today's fuel-injection systems and engine management controls, that's not the case now, according to Toyota's spokesman Mike Michels. "The engine management system automatically adjusts spark timing to accomodate the octane of the fuel used and help allow higher compression ratios to boost horsepower," michles said. "In many vehicles premium unleaded is recommended because by doing so the car gets the advertised horsepower from the higher octane. In most cases using regular grade fuel doesn't hurt anything, and most people don't know the difference," Michels said.
With DFI a "lean-burn" technique can be used wherein the overall fuel/air mixture ratio is leaner than has been typical for SFI only. The idea is to use DFI to inject a relatively small amount of additional fuel very near the sparkplug just as the piston reaches TDC directly into the combustion chamber.
The result is a "rich" mixture only at/near the sparkplug at the start, beginning of the flame front. Next thing we know it will be kerosene via the SFI and 92 octane via DFI.
Black '06 Limited
Leather w/heat
Tow package
Moon Roof
thanks, much appreciated.
A digaonal from the floor at one wheel well to the roof on the oposite side is about 53 inches. From the rear door to the back of the front seats in a normal position is about 74". It is about 76" with the seat forward. I do not know the height at the rear door but my guess says it will be about 53 inches or so based on the diagonal meas. I made.
The Passat is 40 to 47 wide depending where you are along the floor and the wheel wells.
My primary hauling needs are large model airplanes so the RAV4 seems good for that
Since I am presently an Audi owner and the new A6 Avant is like $48K I have been looking at RAV4 and Passat. Both are different but practical in their own ways. The rear volume, 269HP AWD,handling, reliability and $26K purchase price for the RAV4 Sport will probably do it for me. The 2.0T Passat has lots if nice features but the reliability problems I see here are scary. The 4 year warranty is good if you lease end or sell at the end of that time. But the warranty does not make up for the lost time and grief if the car is broken often.
By the way, two Audis, both about perfect in spite of what you read here so maybe the VW stuff is over rated here
Good luck
The CR-V potentially will have a better rear view (no spare sticking up in the window) as well as the hatch is nice on adverse weather day's.
I believe the strength of the RAV4 is good mileage in a good size vehicle.
Vic
Its definitely there and sometimes its blocking the view of a person who just decided to walk out behind you even though your reverse lamps were lit or any other number of possible scenarios.
Don't get me wrong on the RAV4, its a neat, roomy, vehicle thats good on the mpg.
It just has a flawed rear door design.
When I pedal down the brake slightly, I get the feeling of slight speeding up! I really do not think it is my illusion! Of course, when I pedal down harder, the brake dose work. The same funny thing happens to my gas pedal: when I pedal it down slightly, it seems the car slows down.
The other thing is the revolving speed when the car is started became 1500 rpm recently. It was just several hundreds a week ago.
Does it matter?
The Good:
The Rav is roomy. There appears even more leg room (thus a bit more distance between me and the kids) in the new RAV than our 02 Camry. The little trunk area in the 06 RAV (if you forgo the 3rd seat)provides much more storage room than I anticipated. We were able to pack for 4 and still close the rear cover! Note though the the cover's design does not fully hide the trunk's contents unless you slide the rear seat all the way back and recline the rear seats. A bad design in my opinion. Acceleration with the 4 cylinder was more than adaquate. Again, I think peppier than my 4 cylinder 02 Camry...though a bit slower with the AC on. We drove thru much rain and flooding. The AWD worked flawlessly; I never felt out of control. The ride was comfortable though after a few hours I longed for a little more thigh support, just above the knees. I did sit up straight and this helped. The Rav is quiet, not nearly as quiet as the Camry but not bad. It was a nice 5 hour trip.
The Bad:
Not having a cargo light really is a pain. Not having the doors autolock is still a pain. No great/convenient spot for change, some may argue I guess. The standard radio's sound quality (or speaker or speaker location) really stinks. It seams the speakers need to be mounted higher or something. We found that in order to hear the streo you had to turn it up louder than you would normally want to. Gas milage was 26pmg, pure highway, driving 60 - 80 mph with the AC on. I really expected a little more.
The Ugly:
Door pillar rattles! What a nightmare. It was not so bad on the way back as I had brought the head rest from one of my Camry seats and wedged it between the RAV seat and door pillar. It helped a bit. I will have Toyoyta try to quiet the noise in each pillar (passenger side too). If not then I will ask for a matching pair of RAV head rests and create my own accessory! We had a leak the on evening after a storm. Enough water came in thru the floor vent on the passenger side that we could pour the water off into the street. I am unsure how this happened...another item for my next visit.
All in all, rattles aside, a nice trip.
My brother got his from Japan and he doesn't have any of those problems as you mentioned. :confuse:
Also, a full sized spare is a bonus (especially in Alaska), but on mine with 17" wheels, the spare is a different wheel! What a waste; now I can't rotate through all five tires without a mismatch. Does anyone know if it's bad to use the spare for regular driving since it's different?
Funny if you read your posts it sounds like you're being defensive about it.
Doesn't block it substantially and there are other vehicles worse you guys say. Brand loyalty.
But you can just keep on cheerleading for Toyota as you're doing a great job of it.
My Miata sprung a leak, I think some of the drains are clogged under the doors. But it's also a '93, so debris probably built up, yours is brand new!
-juice
I wonder if not moving the hatch hinge has anything to do with the safety cage design ... you'd think moving the hatch would not be as big a deal as moving the steering wheel and controls, and they seem to do that with ease.
There must be something more to it than simple beancounting.
Steve, Host
They are selling all the RAV4s they can make at a big profit so by definition, right now to Mr. Toyota, the 2006 RAV4 is perfect!
I am not a RAV4 owner........yet. :P
Anyway, a few times i've had what i'd consider a more serious hesitation. Once slowing almost to a stop and :surprise: acclerating, and 2 or 3 times from a traffic light. Pulling out, accelerating and experience was as though trans or whatever got lost. Nearly panicked the first couple times, pushed down on acclerator more, then it downshifted, then eventually moved faster. Now tell me thats normal Toyota. Has anyone else experienced or had repaired etc.? Haven't gone in for 1st oil change, check yet. Other than that love the car, although mileage not where it should be (in fact seems worse of late) after 2500 miles.
The problem seems to have come to light initially with the introduction of DBW, e-throttle, on some 2002 models. IMMHO the problem had its origins in Toyota's adoption of ASL, Aggressive Shift Logic, late in the last century.
The latest TSB, or newest factory firmware version, seems to alleviate some effects but in favor of the engine occassionally going over-speed during downshifts.
-juice