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I am new to this forum, as I just started seriously looking for a Freestyle. I have located a 2007 Limited with AWD, moonroof, and DVD. The dealer is asking $16988.
From my reading of this thread, it is my understanding that I should be shooting for somewhere around 50% of MSRP, which was about 32K. This would be 16K. Also, it appears that dealers are pricing about 3K over what they have in the car. Based on this, would it be safe to assume that the dealer has around 14K in the car, and somewhere between there and 16K would be a good price? Thanks for your help.
07 Freestyles are going for $Ks less.
Good Luck!
With unsold cars stacking up by the day, demand falling faster, and bailout silliness getting sillier, I have three easy to make predictions.
1) Hundreds of dealerships are headed for bankruptcy in 2009
2) The Fed Is Destined To Become World's Largest Auto Dealership
3) Cars are going to get cheaper, much cheaper. Auto prices will crash. Liquidation sales later this year after the 2010 models come out are going to be fabulous.
It makes no sense to buy a car now, no matter how good the deal looks. The deals will get progressively better as the year rolls on.
Mike "Mish" Shedlock
Yes your post is "interesting reading" and great information to know. I good friend of mine that works for a state auto auction said it is getting harder and harder to move vehicles. His dealer contacts tell him that stock on the lot's continue to build faster than they can sell and no dealership can survive long under that dynamic.
Given your prior post of aiming for at least 50% off of MSRP when prices start to crash how for below MSRP do you foresee it going?
Lastly I must give you kudos for you Blog
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/
You have some very insightful articles, good reading!
So if they can't make that small profit anyway, they probably don't care about the sale in the least, especially if they're going under and losing everything after all.
Why?
Because I'd always wonder what was wrong with it. They aren't that old.
We just purchased, last week, an '06 Limited AWD for $16,490 in Milwaukee. Has moonroof, DVD, navigation, pretty much everything. We like it very much so far. Make sure when you buy a vehicle that you know what should be included. We had to asked the salesman to look for the headphones, DVD remote, cargo net and navigation disk since they were not inside the car. He found them in a storage area. He told us that they do this so they don't disappear from the vehicle before it is sold.
I originally looked only at 08s, hoping to get the best deal. However, my wife and I ended up buying a white sand 09 TX limited. The vehicle is FWD, has a sunroof, limited wood package, pwr liftgate, moonroof, 2nd row heated/auto fold, and aux climate control. The best I could do (for a day) was $29,000 plus TT&L and fees. The dealer had a $600 doc fee. I told the dealer if he rolled his dock fee in, I would take it at $29K. He said no. I told him I was suprised he would not close the deal over 600 dollars. Long story short, the next day we split his fees. I got the TX for $29,300.
I felt like a got a decent deal, but at that point, I just wanted to get it done. Congratulate or laugh at me, hope the info helps.
"A steep drop in sales to rental car companies and other fleet buyers is expected to weigh heavily on carmakers when they report their January sales results Tuesday."
Fleet sales were the largest consumer of this car.
Now is not the time to buy a new TX!
Taurus X 879 2,234 -60.7 (Month) 879 2,234 -60.7 (YTD)
I am seeing alot of $4K plus mark-ups on TXs.
How much lower I can go from here?
Also, there are not many TX '09 in the area - I found 4-5 and total 8 in the state. The one I was looking at is the cheapest and closest to what I like (I would take SYNC out and add heated seats and homelink). But there a quite a few TX '08 (30+) to chose from. TX '08 has $3500 rebate. Is it a good idea? What should be a realistic price target?
Sales of this model have been extremely slow (check previous posts).
Current rebates are not clearing the current inventory.
This model is being discontinued at the end of this month.
When Ford discontinued the Freestyle, it added huge incentive to clear the lots.
Cars like the CX-9 and Veracruz are selling for $8-11K off MSRP.
Used 08 TXs are selling for 1/2 or more off MSRP at the car auctions (extremly poor resale value, worst in class)
Opinion:
This is not a bad car.
At the currently prices(incentives), a new TX is not a good value.
To clear the lots of unsold 08 and 09s, Ford will need huge incentives on this car.
Car sales and prices will continue to decline in 09.
It is just a matter of time, before supply and demand factors will cause Ford to clear the lots of this car.
Options:
Buy Used:
If a dealers can purchase a load Ltd (DVD, power lift), no NAV for around $15K at the auction, you can buy it for $16.5 (about 1/2 off MSRP).
Buy New 08:
With current incentives $5.5K off MSRP, $27.5K (same car as above)
Buy New 09:
With current incentives $4.5K off MSRP, $29K (09 price increase).
Clearly, option number 1 is the best value for your money, but if you could get $10K off MSRP for a new 08 is it worth $6.5K more for the new car vs the used car?
If the Gov't offers an additional $1.5K to purchase a new car, then the 08 option becomes more interesting.
Any thoughts?
Here in my area (Philly suburbs) the flow of used T-Xs has almost completely stopped. Hope to see more soon.
One question though- with so many Ford dealers going under, where are the cars returned to Ford going? They can't hold onto them forever-either they're going to be sold at fire sale prices (fleets?) or they take them back and crush them.
In my opinion, the Veracruz is clearly the better car with a better warranty, better resale, and currently a better rebate than the TX.
At 1/2 off the MSRP the TX is clearly a better used car value.
The TX's price needs to be about $2.5-3K lower than the Veracruz (like new car and options) to offset its numerous shortcomings.
This explains why there are so many unsold TXs.
When a dealer goes out of business, Ford sells the cars to other dealers. I am sure it is at a discount, but no one will share that information with me.
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/glut-of-unsold-new-cars-pile-up-on-california-- lots/3333268053
Check out this video.
One dealer in my area has a new, early '08 on the lot with inspection stickers that expired in August of last year so they've been sitting on it for at least 18 months.
At this stage I could only see going used. And if (or when?) they incentives get upped it might bite resale more, no?
If a dealers can purchase a load Ltd (DVD, power lift), no NAV for around $15K at the auction, you can buy it for $16.5 (about 1/2 off MSRP).
Will a dealer really take a 1.5K premium for any car? That seems like a low profit margin that would barely cover expenses.....
Thank you for you opinions.
There only 6 used TX '08 in 250mi radius.
These 2 could be of any interest:
www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?paId=301415022
www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?paId=301003550
Veracrus is also considered, as well as Odyssey, Sedona and some others.
One of the main requirements is to be able to install rear-facing car seat behind passenger seat and still have enough legroom for passenger, so second row legroom is should be as big as possible. Veracrus's second row is not the roomiest.
Also, I am hesitant to buy Hyundai/Kia. I own a Hyundai. It is not bad car at all, but it is a cheap car and I don't expect much from it.
So the question is still this - how much lower than invoice-minus-rebate can I get when dealer offers invoice on the spot?
The two cars listed sold for $14.5 to 16K at recent auctions. These cars have at least a $4K markup (maybe more) if they were purchased from the auctions. Ask to see the CarFax, so you understand the car's history before making an offer.
I agree, many of the Hyundais feel cheap, but I do not get that feeling in the Veracruz. It does feel a little less roomy than the TX.
As for your question, if a dealer is offering you an invoice price for a new TX walk away, they are wasting your time. The starting point for a poor selling car like this is what you stated ' invoice minus rebate.' Watch out for extra fees. Like I stated before, even at this price, the TX is not a good value. I think we will have to wait until Ford decides to clear these cars from the lots.
If fact, there is a guy on the internet that will buy a car for you at the auctions for $600.
I really meant 'invoice-minus-rebates' when I said 'I was offered invoice'.
So it is a good starting point but I don't know how far I can go from here.
Yes, there is more room for negotiations before you get to the vehicle's 'net cost'. If Ford is not providing any factory to dealer support, then you have 3-5% to work with (holdback, etc..). If they are providing dealer support then the % could be higher. Additionally, if the car is costing the dealer to keep it on the lot, they may be willing to let it go at a loss to avoid another interest payment.
From this point forward expect negotiations to become tougher. Also watch out for extra fees and keep your trade (if you have one) out of the deal until you get the price of the car finalized.
Remember time is on your side!
Interenstinly, when I bought Outback '08 in early 2007, I got $500 under invoice (no rebates were available, no real negotiations either) and better financing than it was available for the model - 1.9% instead of 2.9% available, just like for '07 models.
No trade-in, $399 doc fee.
How do they manage deals like this? Dealers weren't desperate in early 2007.
They are getting ridiculous! A few years ago they were $99 and now all dealers around have $399 and some even $499 fees. Can I refuse to pay it and register vehicle myself? Shouldn't be a big deal. Even if I spend a whole day for that - I am not getting paid $50/hour after tax.
As for extra fees, I refuse to pay them. Sometimes they can be a deal breaker depending on the dealer. The are completely negotiable!
Good Luck!
There are not too many used TXs for sale in Canada right now, but I thought I could give a little perspective from this side of the border, as it might (a first, I'm sure) actually benefit those of you in the Northern States to come to Canada to buy.
I just got mine with around 19K miles for $18000 CDN + a $350 dealer fee. With the exchange rate right now, you can knock off another 17% for the equivalent in US $$.
The dealer's list price was $24000. It was bought from auction in Aug 08. I don't know what they might have purchased it for from the auction.
Of course, the speedometer will be in Kilometers per hour instead of miles.....
Here is the current situation:
Dealers:
- Invoice Price - Rebates is a standard deal for this car.
- Dealers still have at a minimum 3% holdback on these cars (roughly $1K).
- To date, Ford has not provided any additional factory to dealer incentives on this car.
- Sales for this car continue to be extremely slow.
Ford's current strategy is to slowly reduce the inventory through cash incentives.
Buyers:
- Due to its extremly poor resale value, buyers (in large numbers) are not motivated to purchase this car (even at invoice price - rebates).
- The TX used car market is keeping some new car buyers out of the market.
It is a waiting game!
Are they just piling up in the auction house parking lots? Are owners (mostly rental outfits) just holding onto them instead of sending them to auction? Are there better sites than Cars.com and Vehix.com to find them?
Thanks,
Jim
Good questions.
Ford sold 19,000 fewer new units of this model in 2008 (45% decline from the year before), where are those unsold cars?
There are some on the dealers lots, but I do not think there are 19,000 new TXs on the lots.
Maybe corporate fleets?
Does anyone know?
Does anyone know the total TX production for 2008?
Based on last year's sales numbers, I am guessing that about 3,500 new units were produced monthly???
I understand that Ford slowed production in the 4th Qtr, they may account for about 2-4K of the units, that still leaves about 15,000 unsold units. Of the units sold last years, about 55% was to corporate/rental fleets, that means about 12,000 units are coming to the used car market after they have been in service for 8-12 months.
Also check autotrader and myride. Some dealers are cutting back on advertisement, you may need to go directly to the dealership' s web site to find these cars.
Good Luck!
Myride.com includes a lot more possibilities. It appears to be a browser of many sites like cars.com, most of which I've never heard of. This should keep me occupied! Very interesting...
thx, Jim
We need to see $6-7K rebates before this car becomes interesting!
In this area they're down to about 25 remaining 2008s from 40 in November.
I've got a local dealer looking through the auctions for an EB/limited and hope to find something in the next 1-3 weeks.
Dealer mark-up on this car continues to be $3.5-4.5K.
This price increase is likely to be short-term situation.
This is a supply and demand issue for used cars due the lack of people trading-in cars because they are not purchasing new cars. It will be interesting to see how long this lasts, before to car companies increase incentives to move new 08s and 09s.
Wholesale Prices Rebound in January
After the worst fourth quarter on record, wholesale used vehicle prices (on a mix, mileage, and seasonally adjusted basis) rose significantly in January. The 3.8% increase during the month put the Manheim Used Vehicle Value Index at 101.7 and reduced the year-over-year decline to -6.8%.
Same story sales continue to fall for this car.
Maybe Ford was able to effectively manage inventory for this car?
Could see some real bargains later this year.
Do not recommend the purchase of a new or used TX at this time.
Wholesale used vehicle prices (on a mix, mileage, and seasonally adjusted basis) increased significantly again in February. Seasonally adjusted, February’s rise was 3.7%, which came on the heels of a 3.8% increase in January. The Manheim Used Vehicle Value Index now stands at 105.5, which represents a year-over-year decline of 2.4%.
Used TXs are really over priced now!
The TX has the crossover market's worst resale value.
Middle GA
Thanks!
Another poor sales performance for the TX.
This is not a bad car, but you must buy it really cheap. It has the worst resale value of any car in its class.
There are plenty of new 08/09s still on the lots!
If you work hard, you can get $12-13K off MRSP!
Many of these cars are been on the lots over 400 (+) days.
There are a lot of factory to dealer incentives out there.
As far as value, the 08 Mazda CX-9 and the Veracruz are a much better overall value.
Good Luck!
If this describes you, please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by Monday, April 6, 2009 and indicate your vehicle's make and model.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
Coporate Communications
Edmunds.com
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