Mazdaspeed3 vs. VW V GTI vs. Civic Si

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Comments

  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    yes, the drivetrain in the recent Focus in the U.S. is Japanese. So was the 1.8 in the '91 Escort GT/Tracer LTS.

    Not totally. The 2.0 and 2.3 Duratec is a Mazda design but built by Ford. Only the 4F27E (4 sp auto) tranny is a Mazda. The 1.8 in the Escort GT and Tracer was totally Mazda, also used in the Miata.

    It's a shame that we are not going to get the Mk2 Focus over here. That is one helluva vehicle...
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    good info here guys.

    i didn't realize that the focus was reffered to in 'marks' like vw's are. i just thought they were generations.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    didn't realize that the focus was reffered to in 'marks' like vw's are.

    In Europe they are!

    I especially like the Focus RS... the current Focus has been rated the most reliable vehicle in its segment in Germany, outdoing all [non-permissible content removed] and German brands....why the heck do they not give it to us!?!?!
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "the current Focus has been rated the most reliable vehicle in its segment in Germany, outdoing all [non-permissible content removed] and German brands...."

    That's incredible for an European car (MkII Focus)! This credit must go to Mazda, as European's MkI Focus never had a chance to run on Japanese-designed powerplant (did they?).

    By the way, the MkII RS was cancelled. Here's the MkIII regular Focus. Watch out, it's coming to America in the distant future, but even the MkII's overall width is so fat that the 6-ft-wide Lexus LS430 can't match.

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/u/r0a9f0811324f75a7t/news/autoexpressnews/209134/ford_focus.html
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    If it does, it is the very distant future. For just came out with its new 2008 Focus for NA. The MKIII would definitely save Ford over here.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    yeah def in the VERY distant future, if at all. if it does, i doubt it will look exaclty like this either.

    the new focus is coming out soon and there have already been pics of it, and its nothing to write home about. and it certainly looks nothing like this.

    the interior still looks a bit chintzy though.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    God, the 2008 N/A Focus is down right ugly.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Since the Euro-market MkV Jetta's are built in Mexico, & this frugal super-&-turbo charged 1.4 is being assembled just south of our border...

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/u/r0a9f0811324f75a7t/carreviews/firstdrives/209156/volkswagen_jetta.html

    Aren't we getting this engine soon? A lighter-nose 4-cyl Rabbit/Jetta should handle better than the 5-cyl one.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    actually no, we are not getting it at all. maybe it will be a choice in the newer mkVI, but the only thing that is happening to the rabbit and jetta is a horsepower bump to 170 and torque is up to 177.

    i dont see any problems with the handling of the mkV chassis though, especially not in gti/rabbit guise; it handles well enough. the rabbit is still built in germany too, only the engine is sourced from mexcio. The jetta, however, is built there.
  • carfanatic007carfanatic007 Member Posts: 267
    I've driven the Speed 3, the GTI, even the little Mini Cooper S. None compare the the Civic SI in refinement, handling or all out fun to drive in my opinion. Plus it is cheaper and much more reliable to boot. The best by far. :D
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Have you driven all 4 on the same road course?

    "all out fun to drive" is subjective, which is OK. I just don't think the Si was all that fun to drive. The Mini was the most fun, by far, in my opinion.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    long time no post fanboy!

    if the si is the most fun in YOUR OPINION, how is it also the 'best by far'? :blush:
  • carfanatic007carfanatic007 Member Posts: 267
    For those of you who don't comprehend, I will expl ;) ain. I prefer the SI to the GTI, the MS3, the Mini cooper "S", the Nissan Sentra SER Spec V, etc. To me, the SI rocks. Just superior in all facets of driving. I'm sorry if you don't agree. Thanks. ;)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,257
    I can understand it. That's why they make various cars...not all of us like the same things.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,288
    I can understand it. That's why they make various cars...not all of us like the same things.

    Agreed. I went with the Mazdaspeed3; I loved the MCS JCW but I needed a larger rear seat. The Si was OK, but I already have one car that needs to be wound tight in order to make brisk progress. The GTI had the best interior but I didn't want a sunroof and the local VW dealer wasn't enthusiastic about special ordering a car. So far I love the MS3, and I'll probably keep it for a few years, or at least until BMW sticks the twin turbo diesel in the 1er...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    if i was a uneducated person with regards to the cars in this segment, i would have no clue why you think the si is better, because you never give any real reasons.

    BUT, being a honda enthusiast (as well as a vw enthusiast), i CAN figure out MAYBE why you do enjoy it. But i also remember the days when i pledged loyalty to only one car and couldn't see the good in others. You obviously have not gotten to this point.

    price and long term relaiability aside, its actually the gti that probably does everything good and not one thing amazing (except for torque everywhere on the rev range and a flawless interior), as oppossed to the si or ms3 which specialize in certian things.

    again something you probably wont understand.
  • carfanatic007carfanatic007 Member Posts: 267
    Whether or not eldaino understands my reasoning for making a post is not relevent. I simply made a comment. Actually, I have owned 3 VW GTI's in the past and really like them but for there poor reliability. :)
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    why are referring to me in the third person?

    and no, its not irrelevant, its actually very central to understanding some of the things you type on this website.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAMember Posts: 9,400
    Let's keep this about the cars and steer the conversation away from talking about each other please.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,804
    about .3 seconds faster to 60 MPH, and is a blast to drive, very fun.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • davertdavert Member Posts: 23
    Volkswagen GTI cornering seems just fine. Rabbit will probably be very similar though less busy since the wheels/tires will be more pragmatically sized. With the horsepower of the regular Rabbit comes extra weight - I wonder how much faster it is compared to the original? ... my own GTI impressions are in this Volkswagen GTI car review.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    i belive the corninering is fine too, and there is a quite a bit of grip...but the body roll is nothing to write home about, as both the si and mazdaspeed 3 control it better. maybe only the new wrx is worse.

    dunno how much quicker than the original the new bunny is, but its quite a bit quicker than the model it replaces...with the same fuel economy.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    while all these Mazdaspeed3/VW V GTI/Civic Si are penalty boxes over bumpy roads.

    The Rabbit is luxurious, as its optional ipod includes a front center armrest w/ rear-seat A/C vents behind it, same as the GTI.

    Anyway, after my test drives, I've decided to own the 2.3 Focus ST. It handles way sharper, & especially its feel-ful steering makes it much more fun than the Rabbit, while still rides less nervously than even the non-turbo 2.3 Mazda 3S.
  • charlietorquescharlietorques Member Posts: 2
    I've just had the pleasure of test driving the new 30th Edition GTI on a race track and boy it was good fun (extra 35bhp or so over Mk V GTI, 18 inch black alloy wheels, leather race seats, polished drilled steel pedals, etc). It didn't seem to want to let go on the corners no matter how hard it was pushed! I haven't tested any of the competitors cars mentioned here such as the MazdaSpeed3 or Honda Civic Si, but was wondering if anybody here has tested the 30th Edition GTI against these other cars and how they compared?
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    OK, you guys all want hardcore versions to compete w/ the hard-riding Mazdaspeed3.

    Now it's Civic's turn:

    http://honda.bfi0.com/W7RH02BFC330732251441313DE05E0

    & priced to match. :P
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    are you in europe? because we have no edition 30 gti here!

    the extra hp torque would be nice though!
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    i dunno about penalty boxes...i know they are stiffer than the rabbit (especially the si and mazdaspeed) but i would hardly call the gti a pentalty box, as its the most softly sprung out of all of them minus the regular versions of each respective car.

    the bunny is pretty darn luxurious though.

    creakid...i'm suprised you say that the focus st rides less 'nervously' over roads than the 3...i test drove one the other day and it was good fun, and sportier than my rabbit.

    is the st the c-1 chassis? i was always under the impression that the c-1 chassis can only be found under the euro focus...
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    creakid, i would hardly call this the 'hardcore' version.

    a free-er flowing exhaust and slighlty stiffer suspension...this is just a limited edition for some jdm fanboys.

    the civic that would fit your description was reviewed recently on insideline: the jdm civic type r sedan :222 hp, 8500 redline, 18 lightweight wheels, and incredibly well handling suspension that actually allows this civic to lap FASTER than a stock s2k, and brembro brakes.

    that is a hardcore civic.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,288
    It's a nice appearance package, but IMO it's not worth 29K.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,288
    this is just a limited edition for some jdm fanboys.

    You nailed it. All show, with very little-if at all-extra go.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    OK, a Civic Si with a Mugen suspension and aero kit, and a different Honda exhaust. I did not see any mention of more power. If it heads near $30K, its WAY over priced. I would rather buy the Mazdaspeed3 and add the Mazdaspeed intake and exhaust that adds make the engine a 293hp and 310tq monster.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    the jdm civic type r sedan :222 hp, 8500 redline, 18 lightweight wheels, and incredibly well handling suspension that actually allows this civic to lap FASTER than a stock s2k, and brembro brakes.


    I was in St. Lucia and picked up a British car mag, forgot the name, but, on the cover, it had a comparo between the WRX, Mazda3 MPS (Speed3 over here), and Civic Type-R. It was a pretty good article. The Subi came in last, the Mazda 2nd, and the Type-R 1st. Mazda got kudos for being the fastest, and handling while the Type-R won because of handling and driving ergernomics.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    yeah right now the brits love the type r, i've seen it proclaimed as the best hot hatch over there right now by a few euro car mags. (funny because edmunds review of it was less than stellar.)

    the type r i was talking about avi is the jdm version. its the one with the huge brakes and 222hp engine.

    some sources say 212, but the engine in the EUROPEAN hatch type r is supposed to be only 198 hp. Its essentially our si's engine, but tuned for torque and midrange. (it has more of it too rated at 142 lbs.)

    it actually only has a torsion beam rear suspension; but the interior and exterior simply own our si and the jdm type r(which is just a jdm civic sedan.)

    even though its technically the lesser of the two, i'd love the euro type r hatch, the sytling is amazing and its still quite a bit quicker than our si, if not quicker than the jdm r.

    again, the styling alone is the selling point. on top of that, while it does lack an lsd, it comes with a stiffer suspension, noticably bigger brakes, awesome wheels and a better k20.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    It is absurd that the Euro Civic w/ such low-tech suspension can beat the Control-Blade GTI & C-1 Focus ST, per most Brit magazines. That's b/c lowered sport versions don't use much suspension travel, & therefore the crude suspension geometry doesn't show much. The 5-cyl turbo in the C-1 Focus ST also hurts, no wonder it got ranked behind the GTI:
    creakid1, "2008 Ford Focus future vehicle" #43, 19 Jan 2007 2:11 am

    But once comparing the "normal" versions, the order almost always goes reverse. The C-1 Focus w/ 4-cyl beats both the Golf (Rabbit) & the Euro Civic, mainly b/c the Euro Civic's ride sucks & neither can match Focus' steering feel.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "...but i would hardly call the gti a pentalty box..."

    Yeah, but I'm sure the 30th Edition is, per some Brit magazine who found it too uncomfortable for British roads. :)

    "creakid...i'm suprised you say that the focus st rides less 'nervously' over roads than the 3...i test drove one the other day and it was good fun, and sportier than my rabbit."

    I only drove the '04 Mazda3's, so I don't know if its quick-rebound ride has changed or not. But the Focus ST has retuned the suspension after the '05 & no longer using the SVT shocks. No wonder Consumer Reports mentioned how comfortably the '06 ST rides.

    "is the st the c-1 chassis? i was always under the impression that the c-1 chassis can only be found under the euro focus..."

    Some Brit magazine also found the old BMW E36 3-series more fun than the E46 3-series mainly due to the more lively steering feel & more playful oversteer from the multi-links. So even an E36 w/ std suspension is still more fun than an E46 w/ the less comfy sport suspension.

    The same goes to the old C-170 Focus I vs the C-1 Focus II. The only thing wrong w/ the U.S.-spec is the over assisted steering on all but the discontinued SVT model. But I know how to fix that by tapping into the pwr-steering wires. I can also have this cheaply equipped car sound insulated by Dynamat to feel more luxurious.

    British Top Gear said:
    comp386, "2008 Ford Focus future vehicle" #47, 19 Jan 2007 10:14 am
    In other words, the old C-170 Focus I beats the Mazda3 & the Golf V.

    It also beats its own new version in fun but not ride/handling compromise (see post#67):
    creakid1, "Ford Focus 2005 release date" #67, 25 Dec 2004 12:39 pm

    That's right, you don't want to give up a lively tail if the high-tech Control Blade design can harness it w/in a predictable level.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    hey man whatever works works. i too was a bit of a snob and scoffed at this (and that with me being a honda fan), but you know what? like someone else on this site said its excecution that counts.

    if the focus or mazda 3 accomplished what they do using a torsion beam, than i'm sure you wouldn't complain. ;) there is no denying the purity of the type r philosophy.

    plus creakid, you haven't driven the type r have you? i'd say the brits are pretty savvy on their hatches...they know what they are doing. ;)
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    maybe i should clarify... i thought the c-1 chassis was the only reason why the focus was fun, and the only chassis that had the control blade suspension.

    i was under the impression that that 3 here in states was the only offering with the control blades....so your saying that even your focus st has them?

    but then again, you and top gear also think that regardless of the suspension, this older focus is more 'fun'? ok i get that. i'm just trying to confirm that this is what you are saying! because you mentioned it 'beating' the 'new' version, whereas i thought the c-1 was kinda oldish and not anything 'new'.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    never mind, i got educated on wikipedia.

    i know the differences now, so i guess the question i have is if the mk1focus in europe is the same suspension as the focus st we have here, because the wikipedia article on the american focus that i just finished reading didn't identify the chassis codes on the american focuses, just the euro ones.

    having said that, compared to the older euro focus AND the new c-1, most euro guys, including top gear, still think that the rabbit feels the nicest with regards to ride comfort, while stil having a sporty edge, even if its not as big as the old focus or c-1. so yeah, you were right. the rabbit does kinda ride like a luxury car.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "if the focus or mazda 3 accomplished what they do using a torsion beam, than i'm sure you wouldn't complain. there is no denying the purity of the type r philosophy."

    According to Brit magazines, the better Civic Europeans dream of is the multi-link-rear sport sedan privately imported from Japan!

    MkV's Control Blades really improved the MkIV GTI.

    Read post #44 & #45:
    creakid1, "Ford Focus 2005 release date" #44, 6 Oct 2004 2:56 pm
    Even today, VW never really duplicated the liveliness of the original MkI GTI, which has torsion-beam. But again, it's the steering that shines, & having multi-link rear on the MkI Rabbit is likely to make it even better.

    So far, I've collected a non-sport (springs/swaybar modified to match the LX sedan purely for comfort!) '00 Civic hatch, which sucks in steering feel & ratio, but its multi-link Double Wishbones all around was amazing when showing how evenly all 4 wheels drifted the same time! I doubt if the new Euro Civic can achieve such balanced drifting talent, or just having this level of road holding w/o hurting the ride comfort.

    I also collected an '84 MkI Jetta Wolfsburg (Recaro front seats) coupe & added GTI swaybars. Repairs have been troublesome, but, besides the fun manual steering, the rear seat was very comfy & cushes road shocks uncannily well!

    Last year, I collected the latest E36 -- '99 328is. Looking forward to power-wag its tail by adding LSD.

    My latest collection is of course, the just-discontinued '07 Focus ST w/ a big 4-cyl & quick steering ratio, & corners way sharper & w/ less front-end plow than my 6-cyl BMW.

    I'm still keeping my twin-cam '90 Protege LX w/ TTL suspension, which does scary donuts all the time, especially in the rain. But its steering feel is so good & the ratio is quick.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "...so i guess the question i have is if the mk1focus in europe is the same suspension as the focus st we have here..."

    Only our SVT had identical setting as their ST170. Our ST sedan also had the same suspension but w/o the lowered springs.

    Euro suspension settings vary from std to Ghia to ST170 to RS. Lately, ours starts from S/SE (no rear swaybar) to SES to ST. Back around '02, our Street Edition sedan/wagon (comes in bright yellow, red or blue) had Euro-setting suspension. I test drove it, & it felt pretty firm -- probaby the Euro Ghia setting. I ordered one but then cancelled it, b/c the Advance Track (stability program) was only available on the softly sprung ZTS.

    The old-design ligher-body C-170 has no subframes, so the car feels more direct to handle but noisier than the C-1. By the way, the Control Blade is just a cost-effective way to duplicate the expensive multi-link found in the early-'90's MkI Mondeo wagon.

    For those of you not familiar w/ C-1's (& C-170's) original ancestor Mondeo wagon, here's a recent ST220 sedan version of it:
    http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24/Galleries/w24_GalleriesModelPicDisplay/0,,675- - - - - - - - - - - - -13649,00.html
    I'm sure it looks very familiar :D
    http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24/Galleries/w24_GalleriesModelCompNavIndex/0,,6- - - - - - - - - - - 75,00.html

    & the 1st mass-produced C-1 Focus sedan started in Taiwan since late '04:
    http://roadtest.u-car.com.tw/roadtest-detail.asp?rid=61
    Scroll down & see another interesting corporate face from a Foreign-market Ford. Wow, like the Golf V, it even has rear A/C ducts.

    No wonder I don't think the exterior of my '07 C-170 U.S. Focus ST looks outdated :P
  • charlietorquescharlietorques Member Posts: 2
    No not Europe, I'm in New Zealand. The Edition 30 GTI has only just come out, so it might make it to the US - ask your VW dealer (if enough of you ask your VW dealers you might be able to get it!)
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Add a lag-free supercharger to the 1.4 turbo can do no less while less fuel/emission is needed:
    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/longtermtests/209883/volkswagen_golf.htm- - - - - - - - l

    This engine is finally coming to America along w/ the new body:
    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/spyshots/209759/volkswagen_golf.html
    The bulky, heavy, weak low-end, gritty-sounding & thirsty 2.5 5-cyl is finally dead. So the output of your next std Rabbit can be tuned to "Edition 30" level? & everyone of them can now ride on DSG. I wonder what's gonna happen to the 4-link Control Blade rear suspension when they simplify it this time.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    According to Brit magazines, the better Civic Europeans dream of is the multi-link-rear sport sedan privately imported from Japan!

    which ones? all the recent ones i have read are NOT talking about the jdm type r (the sedan you mentioned) but about the torsion-beamed hatch that is exclusive to them. (europe.)

    i think the type r from japan would fare horrible in europe, its suspension is tuned way to much for track use to be a daily driver for most.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    The bulky, heavy, weak low-end, gritty-sounding & thirsty 2.5 5-cyl is finally dead. So the output of your next std Rabbit can be tuned to "Edition 30" level? & everyone of them can now ride on DSG. I wonder what's gonna happen to the 4-link Control Blade rear suspension when they simplify it this time.

    man! weak low end? what are you talking about!? thats the problem with the 2.5: its MOSTLY low end!

    I dunno about the rabbit being tuned to edition 30 levels...where on this report does it say that? and i didn't see where they said they would simplify the control blades...they are just tweaking them.

    and granted, this is a uk website: the 2.5 engine is nonexistant there, so we don't know what vw of america has in store for us yet, even though i wouldn't mind some different engine choices. I just hope the base price doesn't go up, the interior retains its luxury (thoug i feel that this is going to be the first thing to go, it'll still be nice, about as nice as mazda or honda, but it may not be slightly superior like it is now. And they better keep the rabbit nameplate!)

    i didn't find any real proof or insinuation that the 1.4 is coming to the US. IT may make the gti irrelevant!

    to top it off, the mk VI looks only very slightly different than the mkV; and its hard to tell with all the coverings. But i only detect slight refreshings of the body, a bit more muscular. the biggest changes will be under the hood and in how its produced.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Which one? I don't remember. I'm not even exactly familiar w/ the difference b/t type R & S. But that British article talked about the availability of the sedan imported from Japan. They all have the steering wheel on the right side anyway. Japan also export Civic sedans w/ the steering wheel on the left side.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "man! weak low end? what are you talking about!? thats the problem with the 2.5: its MOSTLY low end!"

    My bad. I only read about the difference b/t VW's 2.3 5-cyl & 1.8 4-cyl turbo from British "CAR" when the V5 was first available more than a few years ago. They said the V5 doesn't cost less, has weaker low-end torque but no more pk hp, consumes more fuel & the nature of the 5-cyl also sounds less smooth. So the only reason they can think of for this V5 to exist is that the 1.8 turbo's continueous max-torque produces a constant accelerating rate along w/ a non-music-like unchanging sound throughout the rev range. This is simply boring & therefore feels less satisfying than an engine w/ rise-&-fall torque curve that give you a sweet spot. In other words, the 1.8 turbo is less challenging & therefore less "fun" in a way.

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/59942/volkswagen_golf.html
    "The result is 168bhp - about the same as the old 2.3-litre V5."

    There's no doubt that the 2.5 has much more low end than the 2.3, as both have similar max peak hp. Just like the 2.8 in my BMW 328is has about the same peak hp as the weaker-low-end 2.5 in the 325i.

    But, compare the low0end of the 2.5 5-cyl to this mighty "tractor"- "big-rig"- "locomotive"-like double-charged 4-cyl monster... I don't know:
    http://www.motorbar.co.uk/vwgolf14gt.htm
    "When you look at the 'paper' specification and performance figures
    for VW's new 1.4-litre TSI dual-charged petrol engine and see it is
    more powerful, faster, more fuel efficient and less polluting than the relatively-new 2.0-litre FSI direct injection petrol engine, it's hard
    to believe what you're reading can be possible.

    But, I can assure you, it most certainly is. At last, a petrol engine which drives like a diesel but is quieter although not yet quite as frugal with fuel. Turn the ignition key and the new 1.4-litre unit springs into life — no diesel rattle or clatter. Slip it into first gear and accelerate. Change up to second, third, fourth and so on and there is a huge amount of power. And, more importantly, torque — making the car easy to drive at slow speeds in town or in traffic. On the open road, thanks to supercharger and turbocharger power or a mixing of both, the engine is really responsive and strong during acceleration. There are no steps between these boosted stages. It is a petrol unit, but
    it's just like driving a diesel. Remarkable."

    "I dunno about the rabbit being tuned to edition 30 levels...where on this report does it say that?"

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/59942/volkswagen_golf.html
    "Installed in the new Golf GT, it gives 0-60mph in less than eight seconds, plus 39.2mpg economy and impressive CO2 emissions of 173g/km. But headline figures aside, the most striking aspect is the TSI's performance. Put simply, it feels like a large, lusty engine, with lots of punch and power right up to 6,500rpm."

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/longtermtests/209883/volkswagen_golf.htm- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - l
    "Power has increased to 230bhp – that’s the same as the Edition 30"

    Well, it's the same 1.4 super-&-turbo.

    "and i didn't see where they said they would simplify the control blades...they are just tweaking them."

    It was another British article that mentioned about "simplifying it" for cost-cutting purpose. & the word "tweaking" simply sounds better. We'll see.

    The Focus has expensive suspension. The Golf/Rabbit MkIV has expensive interior. The MkV had both expensive interior & suspension. & the MkVI is just a cheaper-built of the MkV? Well, at least they said they will improve the steering ("feel" perhaps?). You know, all it takes for the Rabbit to beat the Focus (& rest of the world) is the steering feel & reliability!

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/59942/volkswagen_golf.html
    "The result is a vehicle that rides and handles well. A Focus is sharper, but Ford doesn't yet have a 'super-turbo' engine. Not even James Bond has one of those."

    Nah, I'll pass this "James Bond-ish" high-tech engine 'cause the Focus is still a sharper drive, especially when there's an U.S.-only Mazda-developed 2.3 normally-aspirated meaty 4-cyl on tap :D

    Here's why. This high-tech VW engine is far from perfect. Otherwise, BMW's 3.0 6-cyl nearly-lag-free turbo wouldn't be such a big deal:
    http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Daily_Auto_News/Euro_Drive_VWs_Golf_TS- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I.S173.A11836.html?pg=2
    "You have to be very deliberate in your requests for power (a serious bootful of gas is needed to convince the engine of your desire for a rapid increase forward motion) at which point the Golf GT (maybe a future Rabbit for you Yanks?) jumps to its feet takes off like a startled, er, bunny. It's the most on/off engine I've ever encountered, which is ironic when you consider that the whole point of adding a supercharger was to reduce turbo lag and make it feel more urgent."

    "i didn't find any real proof or insinuation that the 1.4 is coming to the US. IT may make the gti irrelevant!"

    Well, maybe VW wants to take time to tune the throttle for a few years before introducing it to a big & sensitive/picky market like the U.S. w/o ruining its image again. Same reason why they changed the 2.3 V5 to 2.5 for the U.S.

    Just remember, even the 2.0 8v in the non-GTI/GLI MkIV also got replaced by the Audi-designed 1.8 20v turbo gradually before the MkV came out. How about this? It'd be fun if I bet you that by the time the MkVI U.S.-spec Rabbit/Jetta comes out, a super-&-turbo 4-cyl will become the std engine. :D & people won't complain about its non-GTI-like mpg, either :P
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    thanks for the links!

    i really wouldn't mind the 1.4 tsi at all, i just didn't know how vw would position it...i hope it will be reliable!

    the new edmunds article comparing the bmw m3 and some competitors included a gti edition 30...they said it was great and that its going to become the standard engine in the gti when the mkVI comes out, so if thats the case, butting the 1.4 tsi in the rabbit would makes sense.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,804
    Wrong. Reliability should be everyone's number one concern as it is the biggest cost to the eventual owner. While it might be true all car brands have lemons..... it is also certainly true that Dodge may make as many as 1,000 lemons for every single (1) lemon Honda makes, for example.

    In my experience with VW, they are not lemons, but simply cars with parts that break down semi-regularly.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    While it might be true all car brands have lemons..... it is also certainly true that Dodge may make as many as 1,000 lemons for every single (1) lemon Honda makes, for example.

    As a Honda owner who has watched his dad burned by Chrysler twice, I still have to say that making a comment like that sure seems inflammatory, like you are looking for a fight.

    You won't find it from me, since I dont completely disagree, but c'mon, 1000 lemons from Dodge for every 1 Honda lemon? That's just major exaggeration.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    statistically 7-yr old Japanese cars have as many problems as 4-yr old American cars. Take your pick.

    If you lease a made-in-Germany Rabbit for 3 yrs, then you might only have to deal w/ around one unscheduled break down, which isn't too bad consider how this little bunny pampers you every single day w/ 1st-class ride comfort & decent quietness all wrapped in an easy-to-park exterior dimension that'll find you parking spaces easily. I don't recall the bulky '95-99 Toyota Avalon w/ low-tech suspension riding this comfortably!
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