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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • shado4shado4 Member Posts: 287
    I love the subtitle about "Hell freezing over".

    Isn't that priceless? Thank goodness the Sonata has standard traction control, standard stability control and standard ABS brakes for those spirited drives through the devil's freshly frozen lair.
  • scott30scott30 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for your feedback. You made some interesting points.

    I should have made it clear that I don't advocate choosing arbitrary portions of the test. Based on my analysis, I viewed the Price, Features and Performance categories of the test as being "biased" by Edmunds' approach, and hence unreliable for decision making purposes. Therefore I chose the remaining categories as being more relevant based on this analysis (as opposed to being arbitrary or cherry-picked).

    Also, if Edmunds had picked similarly-featured models and let the Price category penalize higher priced models (Honda and Toyota), we be in a better position to quantify the "Honda-premium" or "Toyota-premium" associated with these models. Frankly, if I thought it would cost 20% more for a Honda with the same features as a Hyundai, I would be more likely to snap up the Hyundai and spend the difference on a big screen TV (or some other toy). Unfortunately, I can't easily make that decision based on this review.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    I admit i was wrong when i said the V6 is a better handler :blush: when i wrote that i forgot that with FWD cars the handling gets worse with a heavier engine. I hope in the future Edmunds would compare the V6 models so we know which of the three has the best handling. But remember the V6 does not affect the transmission, braking, suspension and steering which Accord beats Sonata in.

    If someone were to give me $21,000 to spend on either an Accord, Sonata or Camry I would have no doubt in picking the Sonata. But if someone were to give me a choice between the Sonata LX or Accord EX V6 i would pick the EX V6. I dont mind spending more for IMO a better sedan and i admit i dont speak for everyone.

    Alpha01- I have no idea how Edmunds tests their cars, I trust Car and Driver more so i guess Accord and Sonata are equal in power :confuse: . If you notice the Accords 0-60 ratings are all over, Motortrend gives it a 6.5 seconds, Car and Driver 7.0, Edmunds 7.5 and i just recently found 6.7 from Modernracer.com.

    The Spyphots of the new Camry are gorgeous. I hope the Camry will atleast look something like the spyphotos.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    2003-2004 edmunds gave Honda accord the champ 78.1 in total scores. with 56.5 in price scores. So givint it 85 in my point of view was kind of generous, though i guess the car has made some add ons. Anyways it still doesn't matter

    Ctalk, how do you keep saying the Accord is such a better car?? The interior quality, weildings, paint job, stability control, traction control, NVH level, styling, all belong to the sonata. Are you pertaining to performance only?? Yes the engine, and steering belongs to the accord, but that is a joke if u think thats what a midsize car is only about. This is a family mid size comparison dealing with quality, price, just or even more important than performance only. Please don't keep shooting yourself in the foot by saying the Accord is the better sedan unless you utterly just mean by performance, overall thers no doubt who is the winner
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Actually, adding a V6 can affect braking--more weight to haul down. The Sonata did very nicely in braking as it is. I was surprised the review gave 1st in braking to Accord after all the praise they heaped on the Sonata's brakes. Probably because the Accord had zero fade.

    Adding a V6 can also affect handling and steering--again because of the extra weight, but moreso because of what comes with the V6. In this case, if you compare the Accord EX V6 to the Sonata LX the tire sizes change. Other reviews that have tested both the regular tires and 17" tires on the Sonata have noted that the 17-inchers handle better.

    I will spend more $ on a car to get a better car but only to a point. Once a car crosses my "has everything I need/want" threshhold, I will buy the least expensive car that crosses that bar.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    We will just wait till the Compare the LX V6 to the EX V6, i am not going to make any predictions. But i still stand by my statment that the Accord EX V6 will beat the Sonata LX.

    You really think Toyota and Honda are just going to let Hyundai slowly make its way to the top. Toyota and Honda have been doing this for so long, i trust they will come out with great cars at a competitive (but i admit still expensive) price. The 3 year old design Accord still have some areas where it can beat the Sonata in. The Sonata should have as good or better transmission, braking, suspension and steering. You said "unless the camcord drastically change which i doubt they will because they are cheap as heck" If you look at Honda and Toyota's history with every new design they improve everything about their car. If the new Sonata can not beat the current Accord in steering, transmission etc. I to have doubts how the 2006 Sonata will hold against the new designs from Toyota and Honda. The Sonata will have to have a pretty big refresh.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    The reason why the Accord got rated well in braking is because the reviewers loved the Accord brake pedal feel (i do to actually.) Correct me if i'm wrong but no one has said there is any difference between the 4 cylinder and 6 (in steering)

    The Sonata is very well equipped at a excellent price but i really loved the fact that the Accord had a power passenger and dual-zone automatic climate control. I also loved the Accords firmer suspension and better steering. I admit any model under the EX-V6 (EX-L, LX V6) i would buy the Sonata over them anytime.

    Choe13- The Accord is a well rounded vehicle, its seats are very comfortable, reasonably spacious and has a high quality interior that is equal to Hyundai's or better, as for styling i do admit the Sonata's styling is better then the Accord's but IMO needs to be more distinctive (paint job?.. i dont see how Hyundai's paint job is better then Accords). The only car i would say is better then the Sonata is the EX-V6, i do admit the Sonata is feature-packed and has a long list of standard safety features Honda can not match and a price that is unbeatable, but the EX-V6 is comparable (not in price but in everything else and does a little extra to give better transmission, etc.) The Sonata is a great vehicle i admit, it really gave the Accord and Camry a kick in the behind, but i still feel the EX-V6 is better IMO.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    There you go, there's a good example of why people buy particular cars: features like a power passenger seat and dual-zone automatic climate control are very important to you, and they mean zilch to me. Whereas the dual-arc seat cushion on the Sonata is a biggie for me and doesn't do anything for you.

    Widely-recognized example of where Honda went one step forward, two steps back in going from one generation to the next: the '01 Civic. Personally, I also thought the '86-'89 Accord was superior to the '90-'93 generation, and the '94-97 gen was superior in many ways to the '98-'02 years. But with the competition heating up, Honda can't afford to miss with the next generation Accord. Not only is Hyundai coming on strong, but GM and Ford are putting out some good mid-sized cars too--or will soon (Fusion). And don't forget Nissan, Mazda, Subaru, and VW.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Now, I drive an Altima...but since the beginning of my car loving time I have always been an Accord fan. Heck, between, my family, we have had at least 10.

    But I have got to say that Honda has just been beaten.

    When you add up all things and consider what you can get for the price, the Sonata is the clear choice overall.

    I am a FIRM believer (like my buddy Alpha :P ) that this car has Honda and Toyota scared to death.

    I am willing to bet that the "Conservative" Honda and Toyota folks are going to be working overtime to get these new Accord and Camrys to the market.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the new Accord is pushed up to early 07 similar to the Camry's debut in early 06.

    The point is SIMPLE. Honda and Toyota have got to start offering more features on the lower trim levels.

    An Accord should come standard with a power driver's seat in LX trim, disc brakes should be standard in ALL Trims, not just V6 and EX models.

    Simple options like fog lights should have been standard on the EX and V6 models.

    Stability control, TRAC, and ABS should be standard (the last one already is)

    And Exterior styling of both cars will have to be fixed up as well...

    We have a new car on the docket folks..that's all it is to it.
    I was an avid fan of the Accord (still am), but the truth be told, the Sonata is offering more value for the dollar bill.

    It only makes me wonder what Nissan is going to do with its redesign.

    Nissan is even further behind on the safety stuff compared to Honda and Toyota, much less Hyundai.

    And did anyone notice that the 06 Accord LX will now have alloy wheels standard, and that LXV6 models will get 17 inchers, power sunroof and other options that LX models never had before???

    I think the launch of the Sonata played a key role in that folks...
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    I hope Sonata's sell well, that will force Honda, Toyota and Nissan to make their models more feature packed at a low price. After reading the comparison i didnt realize how much you can get in a Sonata for the price of a LX-G :P. At the dealer when i sat in the EX V6 and the LX-G it was literally like sitting in another car. The LX i have to admit is really stripped down. You can tell it scared Honda because of its sudden addition of feautures to the LX.
    But i have no doubts when i bought my 05 EX V6 maybe a little, i really love the new 6 speed manual the Accord EX V6 will have.
  • irnmdnirnmdn Member Posts: 245
    Nicest 4-banger in it's class - best experienced with a 5-speed manual, among V6s Altima is the best
    Poor compromise between ride and handling, Mazda 6 handles better with similar ride, Camry offers way better ride
    Accord is loud for a family sedan when compared to Camry and now 06 Sonata
    Ugliest car in it's class, even with mid-cycle refresh

    In 98, accord was at the top of it's class, now it is an also ran.

    ~A thoroughly satisfied 00 Accord owner.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    - Does have a the nicest 4- banger in it's class, also has good 5-speed automatic (Edmunds calls it 'Smart transmission')

    - I do agree with the ride and handling, but i think the 6 has a even firmer ride. I drive on pot-hole filled roads everyday, the Camry definetly would be better for the roads i drive on, but its boring ride turned me off.

    - The only models that actually looks good from the Accord are the EX models, I hate how the LX-G and LX-V6 wheels look so cheap (and ugly). The new Camry does look nice, the LE looks a lot better then the LX-G. But Camry's attemp to jazz up its SE-V6 was IMO tacky looking, I was considering buying it but prefered the 2004 model more. But Camry's 2007 design looks gorgeous from the spy-photos, i really hope it comes out to look a bit like that. Accords refresh I find the back looks to similar to, too many cars (Mercedes E class, Grand Prix), but i love how rear LED's are now in Accords.

    - The current Accord was top of its class, but the aggressively priced, very well equipped new Sonata forced it to be second (something Honda's not use to :P). I'd really love to see atleast one of the sites compare the Top of the line models, the EX-V6 still has a good chance at getting first IMO. The comparison Edmunds did was a no-brainer. I mean look at what you get in a Sonata for 20,000 and look at what you get in an Accord. I have to say, Sonata has a lot of bang for the buck. Honda should learn to put more features in their lower end models (same goes with Toyota), the only models that are well equipped are the EX-V6, and EX-L.

    -But to be fair Hyundai is going up against 3 year old designs, the next generation designs from Honda and Toyota will probably put it at the top of the list yet again.
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    But to be fair Hyundai is going up against 3 year old designs, the next generation designs from Honda and Toyota will probably put it at the top of the list yet again.

    But at what price? What level of content, etc. They may be 3 year old and due for an update, but those 3 year old designs are already more expensive than the new Sonata design. How much higher can Honda and Toyota go with their new designs? If they are smart, they will follow the Hyundai model and add content and features to their new designs and hold the price or drop it. Otherwise, the Sonata becomes an even greater value against the new Accord/Camry duo. ;)
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Your very right Honda cant afford to miss a beat with its next-generation Accord (same goes with Toyota). But I trust Honda, i mean it has been on Car and Drivers 10 Best list for 23 years. I dont think Honda is ready to let go of its spot. I really can't wait to see which car comes out at the top after Nissan, Mazda, Subaru, VW and Toyota come out with their designs. The mid-size sedan segment is getting really competitive and there are more and more choices out there.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    Wow!!! It seems like Edmunds reviewers are in love with the Sonata :blush: Such positive reviews can only help Hyuandai increase its market share. But it seems to me that the reviewers were feather footing the car during acceleration tests.

    0-60 time for Camry, Accord, and Sonata were 10.3, 9.5, and 8.2 respectively. Even my mom could get better numbers than that when she is in a rush :P Were the reviewers going easy on the car on purpose ?
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    You guys realize that this was the first comparo in which the 2003+ Accord did not place in first? Previously, the Accord got first in comparos conducted by Edmunds, R&T, C&D, Motortrend, and Automobile Mag. A clean sweep.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=101056/pageId=57512

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=437&page_number=7

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=1807&page_number=10

    http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0304_fam/index4.html

    http://automobilemag.com/reviews/0411_legacy_comparo/index.html

    And now little Hyundai comes and stops the Accord's streak. Good job.
  • navigator89navigator89 Member Posts: 1,080
    Wow that really is amazing. Honda's Accord won 5 independent comparison tests?!!

    Anyway, I don't think Honda should lose sleep over the Sonata yet. The Accord has and will probably continue to top the midsize sedan charts. The 2007 refresh should help with that.

    But Hyundai has done a commendable job of building a high quality vehicle loaded with numerous standard features for such a low price. I don't doubt the new Azera and Santa Fe will have such success in their own segment.

    The previous Sonata got 8/10 in C&D and Edmunds comparison tests. This new car is a huge improvement, thanks to the strong engine.

    Hopefully the new Fusion/Impala will also do well in the midsize sedan segment. The cars they replace are 5 years old.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    FYI, it was more than just a strong engine that vaulted this new Sonata to the head of this price-point comparison- it was the whole portfolio of features, from room, to ride, to handling. The new Sonata simply represents a minimal compromise; whereas the Camry LE is clearly the most easy to drive down the boulevard in comfort, and the Accord LX can most handily tackle the mountains, the Sonata GLS can do both to only a slightly lower degree.... and dust the competition from stoplights to boot.

    Toyota- are you listening? For the 07 redesign, we need to see the suspenders and steering tightened on all models, without major sacrifices in ride quality. Even small modifications such as increasing the rear-anti roll bar diameter and adding the strut tower brace to all models would be fairly cheap and effective, no? 16 inch tires are a must on the base and LE grades, as are disc brakes on those models and standard side curtian airbags everywhere. Please inject a degree of style in the interior, but DONT change materials quality. (Otherwise, feature content is pretty decent- steering wheel audio, 8 way power driver's seat, electroluminescent gages on the LE.... not too bad).

    Re: the Fusion and Impala- the Fusion, yea its a contender, but I dont know how strong it will be especially given that the new Camry will come on its coattails. What the Fusion has is sharp exterior styling and a good chassis. Equipment, options, standard safety features, power, and the interior leave a lot to be desired, IMO.

    The Impala is a full size car and doesnt compete as directly against the Sonata/Camry/Accord, though looks to be a huge improvement.

    ~alpha
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Toyota may be taking one for the team :P in order to help the U.S. Auto Industry, since Japanese cars have been eating up its sales. Is this really going to happen?

    Toyota Raising Prices to Help Ailing U.S. Auto Industry
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Note how Toyota tightened up the suspension on the new Avalon. Could that be a hint of things to come for the Camry?

    Personally I think the Fusion is one ugly cuss, especially in front, but the interior looks classy and at the right price, with the Mazda6-based platform, it could be a contender.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Toyota is taking a slight sporty edge to their cars. In the C/D test they said "The Avalon has abandoned its "Japanese Buick" spot for a position in the Sports Dept" The Camry will most likely follow. The Avalon also has a much more stylish interior, that might give hints of how the Camry may look inside.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    I just have to nit-pick your post a little. Road and Track goofed on the luggage space category in that test. They later said in a different issue that the Mazda6 actually has more cargo room than the Accord and should've had a higher rating in the luggage space category. The Mazda6 should've tied the Accord in that test. Even without figuring in the luggage space goof, the score was 566 points for the Accord and 565.4 for the Mazda6.

    Anyway, good job Hyundai.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Does any one understand economics? Do the math. Raise your price, in the name of helping your competition, and increase your profit per unit sold.

    Yes, there are the fixed vs variable costs to be factored in. But with the volume Toyota is talking about, the variable cost won't change much. There could be "some" payroll deduction and Toyota could wind up making more money than they do pre-price increase.

    MSRP may go up but invoice might stay the same. Their dealers could really play with this without affecting Toota's corporate policy of trying to help other car companies.
  • johnmellencampjohnmellencamp Member Posts: 7
    `2005 Honda Accord LX with a price of $21,240 and a 2005 Toyota Camry LE that ran $21,683.` compared with the Sonata which actually sells for around this price point . Does anybody know of anyone paying over 20K for LE and LX surely the XLE and EX were on the same price point and more of a fair comparison .
  • toyunkitoyunki Member Posts: 25
    I think Sonata 4cylinder with manual trannsmission will perfrom and handle better than V6. All Sonatas offer TCL. ESC, ABS disc/disc all standard and weighs 200 less than V6.

    And According to CAr and Driver Sonata LX with 17" wheel out handles the Accord V6.

    SONATA LX RESULTS/ accord
    C/D TEST RESULTS
    ACCELERATION: Seconds
    Zero to 30 mph: 2.4
    40 mph: 3.7
    50 mph: 5.3
    60 mph: 7.0 60 mph: 7.0
    70 mph: 9.3
    80 mph: 11.9
    90 mph: 14.9
    100 mph: 19.3
    110 mph: 24.8
    120 mph: 31.9
    130 mph: 43.7
    Street start, 5-60 mph: 7.3
    Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 6.0
    50-70 mph: 5.1
    Standing 1/4-mile: 15.5 sec @ 92 mph 15.5 sec @ 92 mph
    Top speed (drag limited): 137 mph

    BRAKING
    70-0 mph @ impending lockup: 191 ft
    202ft

    HANDLING
    Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.79 g P205/60VR-16 Michelin Energy MXV4s (0.74 g

    Understeer: minimal moderate excessive

    FUEL ECONOMY
    EPA city driving: 20 mpg
    EPA highway driving: 30 mpg
    C/D-observed: 19 mpg

    INTERIOR SOUND LEVEL
    Idle: 38 dBA
    Full-throttle acceleration: 74 dBA
    70-mph cruising: 67 dBA
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    is that the Accord was still #1 in the editor's personal ranking. Despite all of the features and HP and the price advantage the Accord was still the one more editor's would drive if cost were no object.

    Pretty much the same thing I've been saying all along.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    I have to nitpick your post again. I just read that Automobile article that you cited, and the Accord didn't "win" that comaro either, the Subaru Legacy did. Automobile didn't like the Accord because they didn't think it was fun to drive. Another thing to note is that even on the comparos that the Accord did win, the styling of the rear end is always brought up and not in a good way.

    The new Sonata looks really sharp. The rear end resembles the Accord's, but it looks a lot better on the Sonata.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    For how many buyers in the $20k midsized car class is price no object? If price were no object, I'd probably go for the Accord Hybrid, for best-in-class power AND fuel economy.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Heck, if price were no object, I'd probably also look at something more expensive...like a Rolls Royce..

    The fact of the matter is, price IS an important consideration for most people. Hyundai = great value.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    The Accord actually won 6 comparisons. He (newcar31) missed the other comparison Motortrend had with the Accord EX V6.
    http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0402_family/

    You're right automobile did put the Legacy first.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    The problem is people associate price with Quality. When people buy a Honda or Toyota they dont mind paying extra because they think its a better quality car.

    When they look at Hyundai, they think the reason why its so well priced is because its a inferior car to Toyota and Honda.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    He (newcar31) missed the other comparison Motortrend had with the Accord EX V6.

    I'm not the one who brought up the comparisons, jrock65 did. The Accord actually didn't win in two of the articles that jrock65 provided.

    Automobile liked the Subaru best, Mazda second, and Accord last.

    Road and Track messed up their ratings and they pointed it out in a later issue. The rating they messed up on was luggage space. The Accord was rated better than the Mazda6 in that category when in reality, the Accord's trunk is slightly smaller the Mazda6's AND has gooseneck hinges that intrude on trunk space. There is no reason that the Accord should've been rated better for luggage space than the Mazda6, it should've been the other way around. The Accord and Mazda6 were so close that if Road & Track didn't screw up luggage space rating, the outcome of the comparison would've been different with the Mazda6 either tieing for 1st, or winning outright.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    I actually meant to put jrock65 in the brackets.

    I did read the comparison by automobile, your right about the rankings. But i thought the comparison was unfair, Honda Accord vs. Subaru Legacy wagon?
    About the Road and Track comparison, I believe the Accord and 6 would have tied for first.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    You are correct. Some people do over pay becasue they think "if it costs more it's got to be better." Rather than considering quality and price, they just assume that a higher price means better quality.

    Then there's the relative quality or value. Take 2 good lawn mowers. The "experts" say brand A is rated 5% better than brand B. If the price difference is 5% or less, brand A is a good deal. If brand A costs 25% more than brand B, brand A is not as attractive. The value just isn't there. But the uninformed consumer will still opt for brand A assuming more expensive means better.

    As others have said, Hyundai is still suffering from years ago when they made crummy cars. That has changed, but it takes several years of experience to improve a car maker's reputation. Honda & Toyota overtook their deserved crummy car reputation when they started making good cars...but it didn't happen overnight.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Good catch about the Automobile comparo. I have no idea why I thought the Accord won. Weird. :confuse:

    I didn't realize the luggage space issue with the R&T comparo. So I guess the Accord tied for first in that one.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Hyundai needs to change people's perspectives about their cars. Hyundai has improved their car reputation but is still considered a inferior to Honda and Toyota to many people.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    NG Camry, rumored debut date in March 2006

    http://www.japanesecarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/spyphotoid/6050720.001

    ~alpha
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    About the Road and Track comparison, I believe the Accord and 6 would have tied for first.

    Well, if you look at how Road and Track rated the cars, I think the Mazda6 would've actually won the comparison.

    Out of 600 total points, the Accord scored 566.0 and the Mazda6 scored 565.4. The difference is .6.

    The luggage space rating for the Accord was 10 and the rating for the Mazda6 was 8.8. The difference is 1.2. The EPA cargo volumn for the Accord is 14 cu. ft., the EPA cargo volumn for the Mazda6 is 15.2 cu. ft. The Accord has gooseneck hinges, the Mazda6 has double hinges/struts. It should be a no-brainer as to which car scores better for cargo volumn. The difference isn't huge, but it's enough to change the outcome of the comparison.

    Switch the luggage space ratings around----the way it should be, and Mazda6 ends up the winner.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    I knew the NG Camry would come out early, but that early! Wow. Although its hard to tell, the front kinda of looks like the Spyphotos IMO http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t81131.html I'm not sure about the back though.
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    RT in a later corrected the ratings, and said the Accord and 6 were tied for first. Please check facts at RT. Anyway, the Mazda 6 has been a failure for Mazda, unlike the 3, so I don't know what the comparison is between the two. Mazda has been giving away the 6 and people still don't buy it (what was it, 5k discounts?)

    The new Sonata is definitely going to cause a dent in all the major contenders, its really seems to be an excellent car.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    I'm sorry to any toyota fans, but who are these guys designers?? even the 2007 camry doesn't look all that great. If you really think about it all toyota cars are very ugly. Avalon, camry, corolla OMG

    but if you get to lexus, it is amazing how much better they look. even the es , which is an enhanced camry, looks so much better.

    The sonata RIGHT now and for a few years later is going to be the best looking mid size.
    What can you say, its a smaller Audi A6, just gorgous and will age well.

    Looks are not everything, but if your car is also good everywhere else, it can make the big difference(unlike the pontiac G6 which looks good and tahts about it)
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    Anyway, the Mazda 6 has been a failure for Mazda, unlike the 3, so I don't know what the comparison is between the two. Mazda has been giving away the 6 and people still don't buy it (what was it, 5k discounts?)

    Who was comparing the Mazda6 and Mazda3 and what do the sales of the Mazda6 have to do with what we're talking about (comparison tests)?

    I like the discounts BTW. :)

    I bought this for $16,800 @ 0% for 60 months:

    image
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I think the new Camry looks much better, but styling is just a very superficial thing for me. I think the Accord is a great car and would buy one in a heartbeat if I had the means and neccessity to do so, but its the ugliest midsized sedan out there, IMO.

    FWIW, the Avalon is so ugly that, at the current pace, its going to sell about 35 THOUSAND copies more than the originally projected 85k/year, if TMMK can produce 'em. In other words, your opinion seems to be just that.

    ~alpha
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    One man's boat is another man's 12 meter yacht. I don't think anyone would call the Camry exciting but it is inoffensive. I think that describes most Toyota models although the Solara is vying with the Accord sedan as ugliest back end in the mid-sized arena.

    I never thought the various Lexus models were anything to write home about although I really like the new GS and IS. Styling is just too subjective to argue about.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    The new gs styling is totally off the hook. Imagine you were a owner of such a car? it makes you feel great, and a car you could show off

    I know most camry owners don't care about that kind of stuff, but i don't know if i cannot.

    Styling is subjected to a point but also objective to a point(like being colorblind or not). Toyota has to understand, function design is great but function design with some pizzaz is even better(with such loyalists customer i think its just to do something extra , like what sonata has done)
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    "Toyota has to understand, function design is great but function design with some pizzaz is even better" That's exactly what the NG Camry shows. Great styling and distinctive features.

    "with such loyalists customer i think its just to do something extra , like what sonata has done" Your opinion on Sonata's styling is very subjective. The majority of auto reviews have agreed that Sonata's styling, although handsome and clean, needs to distinguish itself from its competitors.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    "The new gs styling is totally off the hook. Imagine you were a owner of such a car? it makes you feel great, and a car you could show off "

    yea, I love my car, and I love cars in general, but I could careless about the "show-off" factor. I would love to own a GS, but not for its "wow" factor, if it has that- I dont really need my car to make me feel like a well rounded person, in terms of getting attention from others... though perhaps some do need that [attention].

    Your analogy to the objective/subjective-ness of being colorblind is odd. And I think the new Sonata is attractive, but it looks like an 03/04 Accord from the rear and about a dozen other cars from the front. Im not sure what 'extra' Hyundai has done. (Not knocking the car, I think its phenomenal, I just never really thought of styling as a selling point...)

    ~alpha
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    Can i ask you why is it that the Audi A4 and A6 get such huge praises about its styling?? can it be that the word AUDI is associated with the car that it looks extra great?

    Of course the Sonata is not exactly Audi A4 or A6, but its very close to anything that resemble those cars(hyundai has said straight up those were the cars to copy)

    Maybe the Hyundai emblem creates this idea this car is less attractive or whatnot, but the lines and the harmony of design is flawless(nothing looks out of place)

    and please the back DOES not look like the Accord, please that is ridiculous. The accord back lights are more to the middle and have this odd shape to them(no wonder they are even changing it for 07). Hyundais is more to the upper area and are shaped properly.What car company would even dare copy such an ugly end?

    Click on these pictures and see it for yourself

    http://www.hyundai-forums.com/2006-Hyundai-Sonata-code12-cid99.htm
    and
    http://www.hyundai-forums.com/2006-Hyundai-Sonata-code12-cid111.htm

    Lastly you said Hyundai Sonata makers didn't do nothing extra?? How do you call a car thats considered the biggest in its segment, one of the biggest trunk space, interior space and all enclosed in a harmious design called nothing extra?? Very unessacery as they could have just did one or the other and use their price advantage, but they just didn't stop.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    "...please the back DOES not look like the Accord.."

    When I linked to the picture, I thought it was an Accord until I enlarged it. It may not to you, but it does to me (and obviously some others.) That's why it's silly to discuss styling in any terms other than what you personally like.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    We'll see who's on top once the IIHS front and side crash tests for the Sonata are revealed. The current Accord and Camry both have Good/Best Pick ratings for the frontal offset test, and Good ratings for the side impact test, when equipped with side airbags (standard on Accord, optional on Camry). To its credit, the Sonata has standard side airbags.

    Forget the NHTSA tests - Virtually everyone aces the frontal tests now, and the side tests are a joke, in that head injury measures don't count in the star ratings.
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