Future Hybrids Which Model Will Be Next?

fuel man

I would like to hear what you all have heard about future hybrid models.

I am aware of the following announcements:
- Toyota Highlander
- Mercury Mariner Hybrid
- Saturn VUE Hybrid
- Lexus GS
- Nissan Altima Hybrid
- Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid
- Dodge Durango
- Mazda Tribute
- Chevrolet Silverado Hybrid
- Mercury Milan

Has anyone heard about any rumors of any other future models. I know Toyota has been aggressively promoting their hybrid technology so I am cureous if they will be offering any more models. Also, why has Honda been so quiet about hybrids lately? Any new models from Honda?

I would appreciate any information you may have heard.

Thanks,
Fuel Man

nh4wheeler

Does anyone have any info on whether or not Toyota will produce a hybrid version of the Tundra?

gntrainman

Or whether or not Toyota will produce a hybrid Sienna mini-van?

larsb

Looks like the Sienna is due in 2007:

http://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-sienna-minivan-hybrid.html

larsb

Hybrid Cars in Development

Last year, about 80,000 hybrid cars and trucks were sold out of some 17 million total sales in the US, according to David Friedman, research director for the Union of Concerned Scientists' Clean Vehicle Program.

Toyota plans to double the production of the Prius to 100,000 a year for the US to help alleviate severe shortages in some parts of country, where buyers must wait three to six months to take delivery.

Automakers are developing new hybrid models at a rapid pace. Here's a look at the hybrid car lineup under development, and 'best estimate' dates for availablity to the consumer market:

2005 scheduled releases:
Lexus RH400 SUV - a 270 hp luxury hybrid, averages 27.6 mpg (8.5l/100km).
Toyota Highlander SUV - the largest and most powerful of the hybrid SUV's.
Mercury Mariner SUV - similar to the Escape SUV, but with more amenities
GM Silverado
GM Sierra
Dodge Ram pickup
2006 scheduled releases:
Honda CR-V SUV - this is a compact SUV
Toyota Camry Hybrid - the Camry is currently the best-selling passenger car in the US.
2007 scheduled releases:
Toyota Sienna Hybrid Minivan - a North American version of the Estima Minivan, available in Japan since 2001. This will likely be the first hybrid minivan on the North American market.
Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid
Mazda Tribute - compact SUV
Nissan Altima Hybrid
Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon
Dodge Durango - with a 20% increase in gas mileage ( 22.3 mpg combined city/highway for the Durango HEV compared with 17.1 mpg for a comparable conventional V-8 Durango).

See full story here:

http://eartheasy.com/live_hybrid_cars.htm

jk450

"Looks like the Sienna is due in 2007:
 
http://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-sienna-minivan-hybrid.html "

Not from that link, it doesn't. The author offers no evidence the s/he is doing anything but guessing. Remember, this is the Internet, where everyone passes around their ideas until they sound like facts. Many have claimed that Toyota would release a hybrid minivan here in 2004, then 2005, etc., etc. It's tempting to think so, since they have had two (the Estima and the Alphard) in Japan for some time, but guessing is just guessing.

A slightly more evidence-based possibility: I'm sure that Honda is nervous about the possiblity of a Toyota hybrid minivan in the US, and more than one person, including Honda personnel, has noted that the spare tire storage area on the new Odyssey is well suited to a battery pack. And since the Odyssey has a run-flat option, it wouldn't necessarily need a spare...

Also, the Accord hybrid's V6, a 3.0L vs. the Odyssey's 3.5, would be just about the right size for a minivan, once the IMA was factored in. We'll see.

The eartheasy.com link also presents speculation as fact. I'll agree with the probablility of a hybrid Camry by 2006, since I've heard that from inside sources, but Honda has repeatedly quashed the hybrid CR-V (and hybrid Element) rumor, and has gone so far as to state that they don't believe in hybrid SUVs. However, if the Highlander is a runaway hit...

railroadjames

About a yr and a half ago I decided to investigate the hybrid cars. I test drove a Honda Insight, a Honda Civic Hy. and finally a 2nd Gen. Prius. The Prius really grabbed the "brass ring" for both my wife and myself. It won hands down on almost all catigories. So, we decided to by one. The salesman was helpful and our wait was 3 months to the day when we received a call telling us our car had arrived. To this day and 17K miles under our belt we've been thrilled with the car's overall return.
If there was one thing that comes to mind that could have made our selection different it might have been if Nissan's Altima was out there at the same time. I think that it's rare when my wife and I agree on a selection of furniture or anything else for that matter but we both agreed that, had the Altima been available in a hybrid format, we would have cosidered it above a Prius. Alas! It was not meant to be. I still wonder what if...and yet, it still could happen.
Railroadjames(if I shoulda, coulda, woulda)

PF_Flyer

Everyone is welcome at our weekly chats! We're not quite as topic-restricted in the chats as we are here on the boards, so hybrid chat is fair game.

PF Flyer
Host
News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles Message Boards

The Subaru Crew Chat is on tonight. Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

larsb

Two Asian Hybrid Minivans with short reviews....rated at 44 MPG USA !!!

http://www.bangkokpost.com/250305_Motoring/25Mar2005_motor59.php

stevedebi

"2006 scheduled releases:
Honda CR-V SUV - this is a compact SUV "

I wish. Honda corporate has stated they won't hybridize the CR-V or Pilot.

mnmadman

Any scoop on the Accord hybrid? I have not seen any on Minnesota roads, but have read great reviews on car mags galore. Last I heard from Rudy Luther Toyota (a local dealership) the Tundra hybrid is still a few years off (maybe 2007?). Any scoop by you?

nh4wheeler

PF_Flyer

We're not quite as topic restricted int he chats as we are in the board topics, so a live discussion about what hybrid you would like to see next is fair game. Stop in tonight and we can get into it!

PF Flyer
Host
News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles

The Mazda Mania Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

boatfloyd

When will Toyota make the Matrix a Hybrid?
boatfloyd

larsb

Hyundai and Kia to release Hybrid models in USA by late 2006:

"Hyundai Motor Co. and affiliate Kia Motors Corp. have moved up their schedule for introducing hybrid cars to the United States. They now expect to do so by late next year, a Hyundai executive says."

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102298

sinepman

Edmunds has an interesting blurb on the upcoming new Chevy Suburban. It looks like GM is jumping in on the hybrid bandwagon. I know GM has been getting a bad rap lately, but some of their projects on the horizon look quite promising. I just hope it's reliable.

sinepman

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/toyota_gm

larsb

From Toyota, the next US Hybrid will apparently be the Camry, according to Japanese press reports:

"Toyota's next U.S. hybrid will be a Camry, according to Japanese press reports. Look for its arrival next year. Because the Camry shares its underpinnings with the Lexus RX and Toyota Highlander wagons - which have hybrid variants reaching dealers now - adapting the powertrain to the Camry shouldn't be a big stretch."

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102339

dewey

A Toyota Corolla hybrid may be introduced after the hyrid Camry?

http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh56138_2005-05-09_23- -56-48_t133877_newsml

larsb

Looks like a V-10 Hybrid Sports Coupe for sale in 2007:

"Connaught's hybrid V10 sports coupe, the Type-D - High-flying hybrid dispels performance myths (30.03.2005)

Following successful tests at Millbrook proving ground, a high-performance, petrol-electric sports coupe should reach UK markets next year.

The Connaught Type-D sports coupe is described by the company as a 'revolutionary concept in vehicle design and engineering'. It will be powered by what is claimed to be the first-ever V10 hybrid engine, and should dispel the notion that petrol-electric engines entail a performance compromise.

The 2+2 Type-D is expected to deliver a 0-60 mph time of 6.2 seconds, en-route to a maximum rated speed of 140mph. The performance will not be at the expense of economy: the company is targeting 42 mpg on the combined cycle, and compliance with the ultra-low emissions standards set for 2010.

Production of the Type-D is due to start in 2006 with prices starting at around £35,000."

http://www.newcarnet.co.uk/newsarchiveitem.html?id=4482&pos=1

gagrice

I have somewhat mixed feelings on this retrofit. It is not what I would call cost effective. It looks like the Prius + retrofit will cost from $10k -$12k on your car. If they go to Lithium Ion batteries it will be considerably more. It sounds from what I am reading it was borne out of frustration with the automakers dropping the ball on EV's. Rather than fight they have taken what is given them and tried to make a truly eco car from what Toyota has offered. I hope they succeed, I am a bit skeptical. When all is said and done you end up with a car that costs as much as a true luxury car and little or no warranty. You are out there with only your friends at calcars to help you. I believe I would take the money and buy an E320 CDI go run biodiesel and cut the oil companies completely out of the picture.

http://www.calcars.org/priusplusfactsheet-v1.6.pdf

larsb

Nissan to license Toyota HSD technology for their Altima Hybrids:

http://www.mixedpower.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=644

molokai

Isn't that OLD news??

larsb

Might be old news....I dont think it is official yet though.....

pjyoung

He said that Toyota plans to have 60% of their vehicles be hybrid by 2009. Don't know how accurate that is, but it sounds sensible to me.

yerth10

I guess Toyota wants to hybridize 60% of their models rather than 60% of their vehicles. The hybrid version of each model will have extras and will cost $5-6K more. And those who are rich and have hybrids will just boast of it.

Someone should launch a hybrid without the extras and make it affordable for an average guy.

pjyoung

Yerth...I AM the average guy, and I've got TWO Priuses. PAckage 4 and package 6. And, IMHO, I didn't find either to be outrageously overpriced. Actually, I find the to be quite the bargain, all things considered.

toyotaken

I was actually thinking the same thing. You can purchase a Prius for just over $20,000 which is less than the average price for a new car now ($22,000). Sounds like it's within the price range of the average person now.

Toyota Ken

frankydiggy

I think what the original post was talking about was not necessarily the Prius. Take this into consideration. You can get a Honda Accord LX for well under 20K, however the Accord Hybrid is going to cost you a minimum of $30K. The problem with almost all hybrids is that they take a model, make it top of the line (leather, better trim, better speakers, etc) and THEN make it a hybrid. Sounds like corporate greed and a tactic that prevents more Americans from owning hybrids (terrible idea IMO). Case in point. When the Altima hybrid comes out, I'll bet it will cost in the upper 20s or low 30s. compare that to a 2.5s altima, which cost about $17k (pre tax, tag, title). Is getting an extra few miles/gallon worth all that money? NO.

In a perfect world, we'd all be more concerned about the environment and dependency on foreign oil, HOWEVER this is the real world and we're more concerned about our financial situation. I'd rather drive a regular Altima or Accord and be fine rather than get a hybrid of these two cars and have to get a second job just to afford them.

falconone

I guess the average priced hybrid would either be a HCH or the Prius. Both can be had for LESS than the average purchase price of a new car.

pjyoung

IMHO, the Honda approach to the hybrid isn't about economy...it's about adding horsepower without sacrificing too much economy. I really don't care if it's hybrid or not, paying a premium so I can be the first person from the stoplight at Third and Elm to get to the stoplight at Fourth and Elm isn't worth the extra cost. Where in the USA does anybody every get to use 300+ horsepower other than the stoplight dash?

gagrice

Where in the USA does anybody ever get to use 300+ horsepower other than the stoplight dash?

I agree, and the reason for my negative attitude toward the hybrid manufacturers. They went from economy hybrids to joining the HP race using hybrids. I don't see the "green" in the HAH, RX400h or the Highlander Hybrid. More is written about their 0-60 ability than the amount of fossil fuel they will save us. Who needs 255 HP in a midsize car? That's how much HP my 6000 lb Suburban had. Maybe Nissan will make the Altima a practical economical hybrid. That is what we need.

toyotaken

Unfortunately, that's the laws of supply and demand. People want performance and are willing to pay for it. They don't, at least at this point in time appear to be willing to pay for a vehicle that is clasified as "PZEV" but doesn't have any pickup as was shown with the original version of the Prius and Insight. Until the market dictates otherwise, the manufacturers have to cater to their desires or go the way of Oldsmobile.

I can't say that I like it, but that's the way the market is right now.

Toyota Ken

gagrice

that's the way the market is right now

True! It did not take as long for people to get over the buck a gallon increase in gas as I thought it would. Give them a discount on a Tahoe and they jump on it. 13 MPG no big deal. Go figure. Here is how that plays out. GM discounted the big SUVs by about $10k. People will justify the bigger vehicle with this logic. At $2.50 per gallon I can buy 4000 gallons of gas and drive 50k miles before it costs me a dime for gas. I could have bought a fully loaded Suburban for the same price as I paid 7 years ago for my last Suburban. At least GM is not adding to the inflation.

pjyoung

>

My 2005 Pri both are PZEV - and they have enough pickup to easily merge onto highways. But it IS a shame that the only benefit of hybrid technology on many vehicles is addtional horsepower.

toyotaken

Keep in mind that even with the models where the focus is on performance with the Hybrid powertrain, there is some improvement in MPG, although probably not as much as is possible if they tuned the vehicles for efficiency rather than performance. The other BIG factor is that these vehicles (Lexus and HH at least, don't know about the HAH) is that they are classified as PZEV, which is almost unheard of in cars (only a couple as far as I know) and certainly on 4,500 lbs SUV's. So even between the slightly lower use of gas, with the gas that is used, there are about 1/100th - 1/1,000th of the tailpipe emissions that you get with a traditional vehicle being sold now, much less older vehicles.

Toyota Ken

mirth

Where in the USA does anybody every get to use 300+ horsepower other than the stoplight dash?

Oh, but it's so much fun when you do use it. You can look forward to driving your car, rather than just putt-putting from point A to point B.

Not trying to convince people, just explaining the mindset.

pjyoung

I won't try to convince anyone otherwise either...but when gas hits three bucks a gallon, and the joy of going from 0-60 (in a 45mph zone no less) results in gas mileage in the high teens - then I'd find some other kind of fun to have.

But...speaking of the Prius only, you'd be surprised at the number of us who really DO look forward to driving the car, and don't just use it to putt putt from point A to point B.

mirth

I believe it. Personally, I think I would really enjoy the way the Prius runs on the battery only, and the various measurement outputs, but I'd probably get bored with that after a few weeks and start pining for some HP.

molokai

I still love driving my Prius after 18 months. Best car I've owned. I recently drove a 2006 S Class Mercedes home from the dealer (for my friend). I followed him in his A4. It was a nice car and VERY quiet. It was also quite boring,, I couldn't wait to get back in my Prius. Go figure! I guess the 18.5 MPG avg for the 50 mile drive also turned off.

mirth

I guess the 18.5 MPG avg for the 50 mile drive also turned off.

Lol! Yeah, those luxury barges aren't exactly known for sipping fuel. Try and find a lux car that averages more than 25MPG that isn't a deisal...

dewey

It was a nice car and VERY quiet. It was also quite boring,, I couldn't wait to get back in my Prius

Nothing wrong with being indifferent to luxury/performance! Especially in this forum!

pjyoung

Not all of us who drive a hybrid are "Greenies". Some of us got sick and tired of pumping $40 of gas a week into a vehicle. $20 every two weeks makes driving fun all by itself.

Kirstie_H

And hey, no need to "label" people, especially when we know all sorts of folks are interested in hybrid technology.

kirstie_h
Roving Host
Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions

dewey

No offense intended!

It was a non-funny joke that fell flat on its face!

I myself am interested in hybrid technology. And that is no joke!

My apologies for pigeonholing!

easy2bgreen

Hi.
This is my first post.
It was suggested that when asking a question, to post in an existing thread.
If there is a more ideal place for this post, please let me know.

I have an older 1993 Civic DX hatchback automatic.
I would like to know if there are any modifications that can be done to my car to decrease the emissions. ( besides the obvious tune up )
Since the newer civic is rated as a ULEV ( or is it LEV ? ), what changes have been made to the engine to decrease the emissions in the last 12 years ?
Is the new ( non hybrid ) engine really that different from the one in my car ?
Are there emissions parts on the new engine that I can have installed on my older engine ?

I am hesitant to buy a hybrid due to the fact that I only drive my car around 300 miles a month.
Any person that buys my car used after the trade in would drive a hell of a lot more, and thereby pollute a huge amount more than if I would just keep the car.

Any advice ?
Thanks in advance. It's nice to see a forum like this !

falconone

If you're driving only 300 miles per month I would not worry about it. I think the car you have now is green enough given the minimal mileage. Buying a hybrid would not making any sense whatsoever.

easy2bgreen

Thanks for the reply.
Should I post this elsewhere ( Is there a place for questions like mine ? )
Thanks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------
Also, If I begin to drive a great deal more than what I do now, what about those engine modifications ?
What has changed on the engine ? ( Compression ratio, air-fuel mixture ratio, camshaft, electrical system, ...... everything ?) ??
I called Honda and they just sort of snickered at me for asking a question like that.

falconone

Actually the best place to post would be on some of the other Honda forums on Edmunds. I am not an expert, but Honda has been making clean engines for quite some time. I am quite certain that the 1994 engines aren't that much "dirtier" than today's.

gagrice

If you have to get your car smog checked ask the technician how your car compares to a new Honda. I think you will be told that the difference is very little. Just make sure your catalytic convertor is in good condition and drive the car till you get tired of it.

lifestar

As Toyota, Honda, and Ford have all jumped the bandwagon on the Hybrid tread, what do you guys think a Mazda 3 hybrid should look like if Mazda ever does plan on following its parent (Ford)?