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Just spoke with a friend who owns a pair of Prius and although he's not a fanatical mileage tracker like I am, he's saying that he's seeing at least a 5% drop off since ethanol crept into our area of the state.
He's not happy about that either.
Here is a post I made here 2 yrs ago on the Camry Hybrid forum. It applies to the Prius obviously but it also applies to all vehicles equally...
quote:
Now that winter is fully here you might want to take into consideration some of the following factors which can often be outside your control entirely. These generally act to decrease your fuel economy. But, hey, it's the same for every vehicle on the road as well. For some it's even worse.
Factors affecting your FE ( and everyone else's also, btw ) in decending order of importance...
1) Towing anything is a huge penalty possibly as much as a 50% reduction in FE
2) Lots of weight in the vehicle, passengers cargo etc. ( EPA tests are done empty ) deduct up to 20% from your 'Norm'
3) Short trips under 10 min - deduct 20% from your 'Norm'
4) Snow, Rain, sleet - deduct 15%
5) Strong head wind - deduct 10%
6) Cold weather - deduct 5 - 10%
7) High speed driving 0ver 70 mph - deduct 5 - 10%
8) Many starts from a dead stop ( going from stop sign to stop sign to stop sign ) - deduct 5 - 10%
9) Terrain - fortunately 'what goes up..' usually this balances out on a RT
10) Winter fuel - deduct 2 - 5%
11) Low tire pressure - ? How low
Now these are cumulative, so short trips with a lot of stops ( -20% ) in winter ( -7% ) on slick pavement ( -15% ) can result in as much as a 40 - 50% loss from your personal 'Norm'. The bright side of this is that your 'Norm' is higher than most others at 39 mpg ( 48 mpg Prius ). If your Norm was only 26 mpg for example you might expect to get 13-15 mpg.
unquote
I think I'd be hard pressed to come up with a situation where my mileage hit for an entire tank would ever get close to 20%, much less 40-50%
In these days of "instantaneous mileage readouts" you could certainly be aware that when you're sitting at a traffic light idling that you're mileage is really low for that stretch of time. But as with everything else... you mileage may vary! :P
As to them being additive ... consider what your fuel economy might be in winter, in icy conditions ( poor traction ), into a headwind, on a short trip of less then 10 min. I'm certain that a Prius would be no more than 30-35 mpg for that trip. A 30 mpg midsized sedan might be in the mid/high teens. if these were your driving conditions for an entire tank or for the entire winter...... The key variable is the length of the trip. It's immediately noticeable on the hybrids that have a data-capturing MFD. The first 5 min of any trip is death on fuel economy. It's this first 5 min segment that has to be overcome in order to improve the total fuel economy.
The values noted are not additive to the maximum value in every case but it's possible to construct a 20% or 30% or 50% reduction in fuel economy based on outside influences.
The instantaneous stuff is interesting, but I'm not sure it really means anything. If I'm stuck on an icy road into a headwind for a 10 minute trip (say for example, driving the 5 miles home from my car dealer after a wintertime service) there's not a lot that I can do about that, nor do I expect that for that VERY small segment of my travels that I'm getting optimal mileage.
The only vehicle I've ever driven extensively with a mileage readout was a Volvo V70 we had as a one week rental on a vacation in CA. After the initial fascination, I chenged the display so I couldn't see the mileage readout as there were far more important things to watch out for on the freeways of Southern California!
Cold day, snowy, short distance, many stops, strong headwind (looks like an Alberta Clipper maybe!), full load of passengers, winter fuel, and maybe tires down a few pounds...
then I am looking at around 90% lower fuel economy, or around 4 mpg. :surprise: Uh... no, I don't think so. It might be as much as 40% less than optimal, maybe 50% if in addition to the above I don't do anything to try to save fuel, such as anticipating stops and using a light foot on the gas. But nothing close to 90%. Unless maybe I were also towing a 3000 pound trailer up a mountain. That might do it. Until the FE drops to zero when the engine blows up. :sick:
Here's two really simple examples. You're stuck in traffic in a snow storm not moving at all. Stay there too long and you'll run out of gas. Yes your fuel economy is ZERO! Anyone who's towed with a truck knows that towing someing will cut fuel economy roughly in half.
In the Prius it is absolutely clear from the graphical MFD that if you drove an entire tank, or an entire month or all year making just 5 min trips from home to work and back that your fuel economy would be in the 25-35 mpg range at best instead of 48 as most drivers get.
And the more bad factors that you add to the equation the works the worse is the total.
I agree that if I sit with the engine running, FE is zero. But that isn't what we are talking about.
Anyway, if all I used a car for was 5-minute trips to/from work, I'd look for something other than a Prius. A bike or moped, maybe.
neither experienced this last year, although it was quite a bit warmer in new england last winter.
There is plenty of data and evidence available from really cold parts like Colo, Minn and Alberta. Sites such as PriusChat have responders from all over the world.
Less than 40 mpg is next to impossible - except if the vehicle is driven only 10 miles or less each way and not driven at any other time in the depths of deepest winter. Short trips are the single worst negative effect on fuel economy....for all vehicles. It's just that before the Prius with it's MFD nobody had a graphical and numerical presentation of fuel economy in a vehicle. Almost everybody's prior 'data' was anecdotal at best. 'I got 36 mpg on this trip I took.....'
It is possible to cut fuel economy in half but external conditions have to be so bad that just getting around is difficult. Combine ice, packed snow, strong winds, bitter temps, winter gas and short trips. Then 30 mpg might be a valid number iso 48 mpg. But under the same external conditions vehicles that 'normally' got 30 mpg are likely to be in the 18 mpg range. All due to external conditions.
1. What was your MPG on your previous car?
2. How many cars will give you 40MPG?
I bet 40 looks much better now. Your MPG will improve with:
1. once the car (and driver) is broken in > 5K miles
2. warmer weather
You may want to read this:
link title
Be patient,
Gabe
Good luck.
Raise your tire air pressure to 40 on all the tires
Do not drive over 57 MPH as a general rule. Use the cruise control to help.
As much as possible, coast, and apply light pressure on the brake pedal.
Put yourself in a mindset that allows you to be taught a new way of driving. With the interactive display on the screen, the car will teach you how to drive it, if you will allow it to do so.
Gabe
Glad the tips helped and you're getting better MPG. Thanks for the acknowledgement.
Keep up the good MPGs:)
Gabe
There was also a link to a great website "way back when" (within the past year I think) that went over a lot too. If someone could find that link again and post it for the new Prius owners, it should help them get a better picture of what needs to be done and why.
I'm content with the 48-50 mpg I now experience even though it could be better. I've decided to trade better gas mileage than that with getting places faster (I go over 57 mph a lot!).
Have a great one!
Upon takiow me how to use the NAV/ FE readouts and I reset them. I noticed the SOC was low so I wasn't surprised that the first 4 miles on 4 lane did not start out all that great, but the battery was charging. I pulled off the interstate and started back towards the dealership on a rural road that went through a small town. By the time I got to the dealership I was sitting with a 48mpg reading. I remembered that I wanted to know how much passing power the Prius had so I took it back out and flogged it pretty good for a couple of miles. It dropped to 43 (which means I was probably around 30 for that short trip. A little dissapointed in the power. Sure you can go fast but you'd better not pull out in front of someone expecting a power surge when you floor it.
All in all for what I want, and with another 20+hp I think the 2010 will satisfy me. I see no reason why I won't be able to average the 50mpg since I will seldom flog the car
My wife and I have thought the same thing. The only time we really juice the car is when merging onto the highway. Most of our trips are highway set at 70mph and just cruise. Most of the rest is Sub-urban roads, about 40 mph some roads have a lot of stops others have virtually none. The 20hp extra should fix the problems with the 2009's lack of power. Merging here can be scary as no one will let you in. Our 2009 Honda Fit Sport Auto gets it's Italian tuneups by regularly merging onto the highway.
Other than that, we drive pretty easy and for good reason, lots of cops out with radar. if you can't go fast you might as well be economical.
50 mph - 67 MPG
60 mph - 62 MPG
65 mph - 55 MPG
70 mph - 53 MPG
75 mph - 49 MPG
80 mph - 39 MPG (*)
Test protocol: two runs in opposite directions averaged, temp: 82-84F, wind 15-20 mph steady; speed cruise control maintained and GPS validated; distance: 7-15 miles per run; mileage trip meter reset after GPS validated speed. (*) Temp: 62F, wind 15 mph steady, defroster on by accident.
I also ran a series of hill climb tests to compare with our 2,700 lb, 2003 Prius versus the 3,000 lb. 2010 Prius:
55 mph - .0725 gal. (2003 Prius, 2,700 lbs, straight gas)
55 mph - .0675 gal. (2010 Prius, 3,040 lbs. E10)
The 2010 has at least 6.9% better performance. This also shows up as extra power when climbing a hill:
60-65 mph - gas-only 2003 Prius hill climb speed
80-85 mph - gas-only 2010 Prius hill climb speed
The gas-only climb speed is how fast a hybrid goes up a 6% grade hill without drawing on traction battery power. I've climbed this 6% grade hill at 80 mph in my 2003 Prius only to deplete the traction battery at the 525 ft. crest. In contrast, the 2010 Prius will continue up at 80 mph until the gas runs out. But I got this car to replace our oldest, 2001 Echo.
My wife loves her new, 2010 Prius because compared to the Echo and my 2003 Prius; it is quieter; has more power; more room; more comfortable seats and ride; and burns less gas. Her 2010 Prius handles the road better than the Echo and 2003 Prius with significantly improved safety from the frame and air bags. Happily, my wife's 2001 Echo sold after nine years with 29,500 miles. In three and a half years, I've put 70,000 miles on our 2003 Prius getting just over 52 MPG and I'll continue to drive it "until the wheels fall off."
I tested the new Honda Insight and hit my head on the door jam. After adjusting the seat, it felt like a coffin with my head barely clearing the roof. Worse, the instruments had to be viewed through the steering wheel and folding down the seats, the interior looked more like a homeless cardboard box so driving was out of the question.
We've heard a lot about the Jetta TDI but the automatic Jetta TDI does not get better than our 2001 automatic Echo. Worse, VW brags about their engine noise!
So we voted with our dollars, $24,250, and after four days, are very happy. Our 32 MPG, low mileage Echo went to a family of five for $3,000 and replaced their 22 MPG pickup. Everyone has moved up and the Honda Insight and Jetta TDI remain on the sales lot. – Bob Wilson
Billy the Kid
Yes vehicles can run on my White Gasoline Vapor.
But nonetheless, we can enjoy summer reports in the meantime.
After 4 tanks and 4 weeks, here's mine: 55.0 MPG average at 2,015 miles
.
This is a mix of nearly 50/50 city/highway. Nothing negative to say about the car so far and it appears the major change is the improved highway mpg. This is in Western New York with hills in the southern part of the region, northern part mostly level.
What is disappointing is the 2010 Prius 11 didn't come with the backup camera. My 2006(second lowest package) had the camera. All said, I believe the improved MPG on the 2010 Prius, will justify the trade. It is easy to get addicted to such options as the back up camera.
I dont know what planet other forum members live on but their numbers to me look outworldly . Apparenty their planet has little friction or gravitation.
57 MPG? Over 60 MPG? WOW!!!
I hope to accomplish their numbers sometime soon. I salute those people who actually do get those figures. But in all honesty I dont know how to do that without getting killed in a road rage incident by some disgruntled car driver behind me who happens to be in a rush. Traffic conditions here in downtown Toronto are quite hectic.
JUST DRIVE IT is counter-intuitive. How could that actually work? Well, it does. Once you overcome break-in and learn to go with the flow, MPG should climb into the 50's overall. My mixed driving is upper 50's now.
The new ECO-METER helps with the understanding. You can see energy the consumption rate, even when the engine is stopped and the power flow is only electricity.
What is your driving profile? Distance of your trips; city vs HWY %; roads you take downtown; tire pressure, etc.
Just to let you know what is possible; my life time MPG is 60.5 (US gallons).
I am about to go on vacation for a week (it is my vacation policy to avoid browsing the web) and I look forward to giving you both information about my driving and asking suggestions on getting that fantastic mileage that I seek.
Take care.
That said there is always the risk of road rage, whether its because you have a Prius or you are just driving too slow to suit the other driver ,I don't know which is more prevalent. I've come to grips with the matter and I'm not about to drive 10-15mph over the speed limit, just to "go with the flow', and placate someone whose chief source of gratification is going faster the driver ahead of him.
Sorry Dewey, i'm not up on my metrics.
We have 204 miles and are averaging 44mpg. We live in San Diego so weather is always good (no cold weather issues). The prius is my commuter car. I drive 15 miles each way and I've been noticing that I get 60 or 70mpg on the way to work (mostly downhill) and 40-45 mpg on the way back (mostly uphill). Is the difference normal? Are there any techniques to improve my uphill mpg?
Instead use gallons per 1000 miles. For example, 40 mpg is 25 gallons per 1000 miles. 50 mpg is 20 gallons per 1000 miles. Savings 5 gallons per 1000 miles. If you drive 12,000 miles per year, you save 60 gallons of gas. 60 gallons times $2.50 here in Boston works out to a whopping $150 dollars savings per year, or $450 over 3 years.
Trading in an older Prius for a 2010, costs a lot more than you will save in 3, 5, or even 7 years. Buy a new Prius for some one in your family. Keep the old one until it drops.
The greenest cars are the Prius's already on the highway, because the materials and energy to build them have already been consumed.
I use the automatic temperature control in my Prius, and am careful to modify the cooling to a slightly higher temp in hot weather (like last week in Oregon!) so as not to overwork the AC.
I also have another question... if in fact having AC is harder on the engine, then does it make a difference if I have the AC on lower vs higher???
one last question, can anyone tell me where I can find the list of all voice commands for the new Prius ?? thanks :confuse: :confuse:
What I'm not sure of is whether the battery or gasoline drives the power on the AC system in a Toyota Prius. Anyone know?
The EV mode switch is a step in the right direction but needs much improvement-of course that won't happen until better batteries are developed. I like to use the EV mode in parking lots but find that most of the time it won't function in that mode for 2 or 3 minutes after the engine is started, so I wind up using it when entering, but not exiting the lot. My car won't operate in the EV mode at more than 25MPH so it is of very limited use for street driving. Driving at 25MPH or less when other traffic is present is a no-brainer.