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If anyone else has a 2007 system, I'd love to hear how yours works and what region you use it in. Thanks!
It's weird that the newer versions would be less accurate and detailed. New vendor possibly?
I have a 2007 with everything BUT nav. But I have a very nice nav system, the Garmin Nuvi 650. No complaints with it.
There were some discussions of similar problems earlier this year by other owners, and as I recall, the solution was to select the correct region or something in the nav screens.
Sorry I can't be of more help.
So, not that this is "bad" mileage, but it did take the bloom off the rose a little bit.
No cars (not only hybrids) with trip computers are 100% accurate in regard to the mileage they "think" the car gets.
Of the 1.2 mJ,(an energy term, such as kWh, for example) needed over the lifetime of the car, .174 MJ is required for manufacture, service, etc. About .983 MJ is required for the fuel and fuel acquisition.
What that means is that if you double the efficiency, that is, go from a 22mpg Taurus to a 44 mpg Prius, you may halve the fuel use but you don't impact the other energy items. In fact, the Prius may require somewhat more energy in this process.
So here are some mpg figures adjusted to a life cycle assessment:
22mpg=18.7mpg Taurus
44mpg=32.6mpg Prius
88mpg=60.6mpg concept car, as in Popular Mechanics
176mpg=85.7mpg ??
When you add in the energy costs related to building highways, law enforcement, etc. etc. you'd find even less actual improvement as you improve mpg.
There's a strong principle of diminishing returns working against high mpg as the sole means of reducing environmental impacts.
I know I'm getting far afoot here, so I'll wrap it up by saying that carpooling with one person in a Taurus is considerably better than trading your Taurus for a Prius. And substituting an electric bike for Prius miles reduces your impact from say 600 watthour-equivalent/mile to about 10 watthour/mile.
Thanks for reading this far.
With these parameters, can I realistically expect to get 50 MPG on a Prius? I mean will I get 50 MPG or close to it?
Thanks!
Jim
Owners are reporting 50 min. in the south and 40 min in the north in winter. In summer you can get as high as 60, especially in the north (less A/C effecting the mileage).
You might consider a Honda Fit Sport as well. Around 40 MPG (real world) at those speeds, and several thousand cheaper than a Prius. It really depends upon which one appeals to you and is comfortable for you. But at those mileage accumulations you will run run your hybrid warranty out in 5 years (30K per year). Honda vehicles are known for lasting many years.
But again, it is really which one fits your budget, needs, desires, and feels more comfortable. Be sure and test drive at highway speeds!
Still, given your mileage, a Prius might be worth it. At 15%-20% better mpg than Fit or Yaris that's about 100 gallons a year difference given your extreme mileage. Right now it isn't economically justified, but soon it may be.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/buyingleasing/most-fuelefficient-cars-20- 6/index.htm?resultPageIndex=1&resultIndex=1&searchTerm=most%20fuel%20efficient%2- 0cars
Thanks for all the input!
Jim
Statesville, NC
1st. tank - 60/40 City/Hwy - 52.5 mpg.
2nd. tank - 50/50 City/Hwy (I am calling Hwy. freeways and toll roads) 54 mpg.
3rd. tank - 100% Hwy. (took a trip 310 miles) 48 mpg. at limit plus 3-5 mph.
There are several things you will click too real quick - wind (velocity & direction), tire pressure, road surface, drafting, and how to work your foot pressure. When on a freeway, if you can get into the middle lane with cars in front, behind and on both sides and be in the 55-60mph. range - 75 mpg. plus.
The Prius really makes driving fun!
23.13 gallons, 1045 miles=45.2 mpg (I didn't include the first tank as dealers usually underfill them).
I carefully checked on a 500 mile highway trip and the mileage was 45.4 going and 45.1 returning. Both legs included some stop and go (LA, of course). I mostly went 70 mph over rolling terrain, with two big grades that climbed over 1000 feet vertical, each leg. Tire pressure was the recommended 35f/33r. Wind mostly wasn't a factor. BTW, going 70 mph in the diamond lane in LA virtually makes you subject to road rage! Temp was 60-90 degrees.
Slowing to 65mph gave me a good 5 mpg better according to the readout, about 50 mpg. I've got an 8 mile stretch that I commonly drive at a very steady 55 mph and the readout shows about 55-57mpg. (Bring back the 55 mph speed limit!)
The new EPA figures are pretty much dead on. I do suspect that the Touring, with its larger tires, gets a couple of mpg lower than the Base. Costs maybe 15 gallons over 15,000 miles? The ride is firmer. Hit some gusty winds and the car held the road nicely. Corners pretty well, but it's no Civic. I would have preferred the Base, but who's complaining?
The seats are OK for me. I love how much quieter the Prius is than my 02Civic. One can converse and get excellent listening to the superb sound system. The NAV gives some goofy routing.
BTW, the manual does not recommend driving at a steady speed until about 600 miles.
The Prius is designed to be very efficient when -driven-. Whether city or highway. It just happens to be even better in the city, due to shutting down the engine at stops and some recovery of kinetic energy by regeneration.
But if you prefer diesels, by all means go ahead and buy one.
I consider this great mileage. How do I do it?
1) being basically a conservative driver by trying to anticipate red lights in advance and coasting as much as possible. Any time you don't have to accelerate from a full stop, it saves gas and over a period of time you'll see improved FE.
2)varying my interstate speeds-mostly during the hours of darkness I often drive at 60mph. I know this is controversial, but as long as you stay in the right lane it shouldn't be a problem. This is largely rural interstate driving, I realize that in urban areas with greater traffic volume it may not be prudent.
3)keep the tires inflated above factory recommendations, 44/42 in my case. It is a stiffer ride, but i'm not convinced it is unsafe or results in premature tire wear. I am convinced it will improve your FE by 2-3mpg.
If you are a typical "go with the flow" driver, that is one who never drives below 70mph and drive 80mph or greater to pass other vehicles, I doubt if you'll ever crack 50mpg, winter or summer.
Some drivers are addicted to the psychological gratification of speed, passing the vehicle ahead at all costs, cutting abruptly from lane to lane, and other such actions. You'll never be satisfied with a Prius.
One caveat: don't base your trip mpg on two or three fill ups, and take care to fill the tank to the same exact level each time. Don't rely on the mpg gauge. My trip mpg gauge is 3mpg lower than what I measure by hand, 90% of the time.
That is if the gauge shows 53mpg it will be 50mpg.
Top efficiency for cars varies from car model to car model. Some hit their maximum efficiency at 35mph, others at 55mph. A general rule of thumb is a 15% loss in efficiency for each 10mph over 55mph. Consumer Reports rates the Prius (presumably Base) at 50mpg on the hwy, 65mph. By going 5mph slower you get nearly10% better mpg, 54.5mpg. By going 75mph you would probably get 15% less mpg, or about 42.5mpg, (50-7.5).
In fact, that has been roughly my experience, getting 42.0 mpg going 72mph in my 08Touring, 500pound load, some longish grades, wind not a factor.
I don't feel I'm rationalizing when I say that it is harrowing to drive 60mph in Southern California. So much better to go the practical minimum, 72mph, in the diamond, or HOV, lane and to pay the price in mpg. I'd sure like to see the speed limit return to 55mph, with people getting ticketed at 65mph or above.
Yes the hybrids are much much much better than any diesel available here for local and city driving. But local driving in the 'burbs here in NA is where most of us drive anyway.
The Prius and HCH are every bit as good as the one diesel available here ( well it's not yet available ) at this time - the Jetta. All three should allow you to get 45-50 mpg on the highway.
So on balance the hybrids will outperform the diesels in fuel economy over the course of a lifetime.
So what additional costs might there be with a hybrid that a non-hybrid doesn't have?
They've been out 10+ yrs now and there are no data even suggesting what you fear, in fact the opposite is true. They cost less to own and operate than a traditional vehicle. There is no way that the diesels will cost waaaaaaaay less over time....especially if it's a VW diesel. A Honda diesel might be a different story, those might cost the same as a hybrid.
No HOV lanes in the Buffalo area. All the urban interstates are 55MPH and this is widely disregarded. I try to stay at 60MPH in the center lane in this enviroment.
I'm not for lowering the 65MPH(in NY)speed limit, but I think many drivers would do well to voluntarily drive at 60MPH on rural interstates at nighttime. I'm in my 50s and realize that my vision and reflexes have dimished over the years, so you can justify the lower speed both on safety and FE grounds
On a recent trip, was caught behind an 18 wheeler who was going approx. 72 mph. I happened to look at the mpg. and I was getting 75 mpg. and was approx. 60' behind him so it was not dangerous. So, I just set in thinking this was great - it went on for about 50 miles.
Congress in a dither over 35 mpg. standards for 2020 - the insanity continue.
Many thanks to all who have posted here. Keep it up because this is good info for everyone to see.
Jim
Statesville, NC
For the sake of argument, does anyone have any reliable figures as to what effect on FE this type of driving, or "drafting" as I dub it, has?
For the sake of argument, does anyone have any reliable figures as to what effect on FE this type of driving, or "drafting" as I dub it, has?
Well first off drafting is ok as long as you are not too close to the vehicle in front. Drafting is used in motorsports to aid in passing other cars so it does make a difference. Their was a test done a few years back where Car & Driver drafted an SUV that one of their guys was driving and got 100mpg!
So yes it does increase economy but how much will vary.
BTW drafting is the correct term
There are numerous posts on a lot of different sites about this phenomenon, which btw affects every vehicle.
Here is one I posted last year:
kdhspyder, "Toyota Camry Hybrid MPG-Real World Numbers" #314, 16 Dec 2006 3:20 pm
So the engine will not shut off until the coolant exceeds 60C. This drops your mileage.
The oil (crankcase and HSD) is much thicker in the cold which increases frictional loss. This drops your mileage.
The tires are stiffer so absorb more energy when rolling. This drops your mileage.
Winter fuel may contain less energy. This drops your mileage.
All this being said, the Prius still beats all other cars hands down. I'm at 6 l/100 km. Last winter in similar temps to what we're at now, I had a Suzuki rental for six weeks. It got 12 l/100 km!
provides cabin heat much more quickly than in my wife's Highlander Hybrid which does not have the thermos. I always thought that it was an expensive feature that would not add to mpg but it sure adds to comfort on cold mornings.
A 10-15% reduction from you best normal driving numbers is what you should expect. BTW as pathstar1 also noted it's the same for all vehicles, it's just more noticable for the hybrids since we all focus on it and we have the means within the vehicle to actually measure what the increases and decreases are.
Does anybody know more about this problem?
The "average" number you refer to is the number on the MFD I presume? If so, it is calculated by the car's computer based on injector open times vs distance traveled. All Prius are out a bit on this reading. My car was low the last fill up, and has usually been low over the last six months (but not always!), both winter and summer. Based on my experience with other "driving computers", 2 MPG is pretty close, better than 5% "engineering accuracy". Fuel expansion/contraction isn't compensated for (temp compensation) and that alone can account for that amount of error.
The -only- way to get accurate fuel economy numbers in the Prius with the fuel tank bladder is to average the fuel you put in the tank over the distance traveled for at least 5 tankfuls. Even then you are not likely to get better than 5% accuracy, because of the unaccounted for variables.
Just kidding!
Actually, the US Government revised the EPA fuel standards, beginning with all 2008 models, to more accurately reflect actual driving conditions. There have been numerous complaints over the overinflated EPA values for a long time for just about every car out there, but a crescendo of complaints occurred with the introduction of hybrids, where the difference between reality and the EPA numbers were magnified (although the actual percentage difference was about the same). The average Prius owner has experienced between 45 and 48 mpg, which is now reflected in the official EPA numbers.
Don't worry, nothing changed with the Prius drivetrain or fuel economy. All makes and models of cars actually witnessed lower official EPA numbers.
www.epa.gov/fueleconomy
OK thanks, I had wondered if that was the issue because I had heard the governemnet was going to step in and make some changes to the quoted mpg. well, i think the prius it is then.