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Comments
I think I've come to the realization that even at highway speeds A/C isn't any better than having your windows open.
I've realized this because I drive pretty much the same way every day, every week and last week there were a few days where I decided to run the A/C on the freeway because it was too humid. My mileage when I filled up today was 26.2. Even though the little monkeys who do the tests claim that A/C is best on the freeway because it reduces drag. I tried it and found it to be false, at least with this car. I guess since the car has a relatively low CD it doesn't make as much of a difference if the windows are down or not. I think when I looked last the CD was 0.29 or something like that, for the coupe 0.31 or 32 for the sedan.
If I'm being stupid feel free to tell me.
The week before I was doing the same driving, about the same percentage stop and go versus highway free-flowing, but I didn't need A/C I got 29.6.
I guess I'm going to have to start cutting back on the A/C. I barely use it when I'm the only one in the car, but when anyone rides with me I like to be able to talk to them and can't hear over the road-noise. Just thought I'd share my observations.
Using the A/C kills mileage. The old line about wind resistance with the windows open is a myth. You will get better mileage with windows down and A/C off, even on the freeway.
We've talked about this on Edmunds in several places and there were some good links. Mythbusters even did a story on it and found the same thing in their tests.
I remember they were saying that the dyno was registering the amount of air taken into the engine or something to that effect.
I'd be curious to read the links if you could dig them up for me. I wouldn't know the first place to look.
Thanks for humoring me. I strive to learn something new everyday.
Just had our 2004 Accord out for lengthy highway trips. As confirmed by numerous roadside speed measurements, our Accord's speedometer reads about 3 or 4 mph higher than actual at an indicated 70 mph. That is, at an indicated 72 mph our car is probably moving along at 68 or 69 mph.
Still, mpg in the upper 30s is mighty impressive. In fact, running along at about 70 mph on dead flat I80 across western Ohio our Accord delvered only about 32 mph on cruise control. How are you measuring mpg? Are you filling the tank then dividing by the number of miles on the odometer? What tire pressure?
Yes, I'm calculating mileage correctly. Miles driven, divided by gallons pumped.
I don't accelerate much over 3,000 RPM, even on the on-ramps.
I'm usually alone, so with all my stuff, I don't have more than 250lbs of weight in the car.
I use A/C regularly.
I use Chevron with Techron, 87 Octane.
The argument still rages on. Just do a Google search and you will see.
For me, A/C hurts quite a bit, even in my Accord. For an SUV, the difference is even greater. Supposedly, some testers have found that for cars, there isn't that much of a difference on the highway. The faster you go, the more effect drag has with the windows down.
Everyone agrees that around town, A/C hurts mileage.
a)"It certainly does appear that there are numerous people that are getting 30+ in their Accords."
b)"That said, as my efforts to drive more conservatively increase, my mileage keeps going down. My first couple of tanks were around 24-26mpg with very little highway use, yet the mileage has consistently decreased since I hit the 1,000 mile mark, and 20.7 is now my lowest recorded mileage, even though this tank included the most highway miles I've driven and my best efforts to drive conservatively and take advantage of coasting, etc.
Where in the world am I going wrong? I applaud those that are getting in the upper 30's and into 40's, and if anyone could give me insight as to what I may be doing wrong to obtain such miserable mileage, I'd appreciate it. "
Here is my reassurance, FYIW:
a) just because alot of people "appear" to get 30+ mpg, that may be just an appearance, and not a reality, as there are errors - which become extreme - when the reporting is based on a single tank
b) no one has mentioned anything "wrong" with a car in the mid-20's mpg; you have an automatic transmission, for one thing, and secondly, you are watching your mpg like a hawk, and watching trends and your overall performance. The variation in tank-tank mpg is most likely you refilling the tank to different places, which vary between gas stations due to the pump pressure (it doesn't click at the same place). The less consistently you do this, the more likely you are to see variation (on both the high, and the low, ends, of mpg efficiency). If only the high end variation is reported on this website - then it makes it look like there are lots of people getting 30+ mpg.
If anyone is aware of a situation where a car was "fixed" to make it go 30 mpg instead of mid-20's I'd be real interested in it as well.
Driving a Camry at 65 mph, and using AC reduces gas mileage by about 1 mpg: the effect on gas mileage of opening the windows instead at 65 mpg "was not even measurable."
Other findings: driving with a dirty air filter has no impact on fuel economy on modern engines. Also, no differences if filling up in morning vs later on.
CR's article is titled "Myth Busters."
The biggest factor in fuel economy, according to CR, is speed: Driving that Camry at 65 instead of 55 dropped fuel economy from 40 mpg to 35 mpg, and speeding at 75 mpg dropped it to 30 mpg.
........that is a signal statement. (Being the owner of a tall overdrive 6M coupe, I acknowledge some bias, but the statement stands alone).
best, ez....
It "appears" that over about 80 tanks of gasoline my lifetime average for 37,000 miles is about 33.35. I realize this is an extremely rough number since the filling error is only divided by 80. I will report back when I have over 100,000 miles so as not to give the "appearance" that my mileage is better than it is.
I suppose my 10 tank rolling average is not even worth mentioning since it only has 1/10 the filling error, so mentioning that it is 36.9 mpg would be extremely misleading.
Oh wait - filling error works 2 ways. Maybe my mpg is actually better than my calculations.
I know when I had my 95 EX I opened the sunroof and opened the rear windows. That was pretty standard practice for me. I miss my sunroof. Not to mention that when the sunroof was open as well as the back windows I would venture to guess that the drag was less because the air was able to travel in and out in more or less a straight line.
On another note...
I had a lot of short trips this past tank but I still managed to be above 30 mpg in my 06 EX-L manual.
At 60 I'm right around 2000, at 65 2200 or so.
"The S2000 is "torque less"! :P
I think the feeling of being held back is a function of "grade logic," which, correct me if I'm wrong somebody, is designed to keep your speed in check on a downslope.
I've also done some reading, can't quite remember where, but I heard that if you take your foot of the gas and coast the fuel injectors are shutdown, so you aren't using any fuel anyway. I just wish I could remember where I read it so I wouldn't sound like a complete idiot.
Automatic transmissions are different. It is not good for them to shift in and out of neutral while driving. One reason is that you don't have a clutch to ease the car back into gear, and another is that just coasting in neutral can be bad for the car. If the owners manual says that the car cannot be towed with the transmission in neutral then I would definately not shift it there.
Another danger is that automatics go PRND, so if you push too far past neutral you are in R - not a good thing, though cars may lock that out now. In an MT R is usually locked out and is not anywhere near the gears you would typically cruise in. Besides, you may shift gears over 100 times a day, so you should have a pretty good idea where the gears are with an MT.
As far as better mpg in gear goes I am not so sure. According to my scangauge, my Accord is still using fuel when coasting in gear and the mpg goes way up when out of gear. You can also coast much further in neutral.
One practice I do not do, and frown upon is turning the engine off while coasting. This can be very dangerous as the wrong key position can mean the steering will lock.
1.) Safety: You cannot accelerate promptly should you need to in an emergency (ambulance behind you, etc).
2.) Fuel Economy: Fuel is cut off to injectors when coasting, I believe (from what I've heard here). When in neutral, a larger amount of fuel is injected, thus increasing economy. Besides, there isn't enough back-pressure (engine braking) below 1,500 RPM to make much difference.
3.) Transmission Health: See the other posts for info on this issue.
The short answer? Don't do it unless in a standard-shift transmission.
I'm going to assume you mean decreasing economy by increasing consumption.
Just pointing out a small error in wording, otherwise I couldn't have stated it better if I tried.
I think the law is ancient and goes back to the days of 5,000 lb vehicles with 4 wheel drum brakes that needed the extra engine compression to slow down. There are a ton of goofy laws still on the books. For example in Memphis, Tennessee, a woman is not to drive a car unless a man warns approaching motorists or pedestrians by walking in front of the car that is being driven.
As far as needing power to accelerate, I can go from coasting to full power in any gear I want, faster than many an AT can decide what gear it wants and downshift. Unless I have both feet up on the dashboard. :surprise: Just kidding.
You mean that's bad. :P
I'm learning to drive a 5 speed. Right now it's difficult because the only person who allows me to drive his is about 30 miles away and he works when I'm home and vice-versa. So far I suck, but I haven't done it enough.
I do have to say though that this car has got to be a bit tricky since you can hardly hear the engine with the windows open. I think this has to be the quietest car I've ever driven. Especially for a four cylinder. I'm guessing you're used to it by now, but I would have a hard time unless I watch the tach. Out of curiosity does the Accord 5 speed have the stupid shift light, which tells you to shift about 2 years too soon? My brother had an escort that did that and he said that if you were to shift when that thing says so you'd be in fifth gear by about 35 mph.
I had a 93 Escort that was a 4 cyl, obviously, but anyway it got about 25 mixed without having to try very hard, but it sounded like a lawn mower, until the muffler fell off and then it sounded like a freight train. My mom's Pontiac has the typical loud I hate you for trying to get me up to speed whine.
...goofy laws on the books... In New Jersey it is illegal to commit murder while wearing a bullet proof vest.
to refresh memories, I have an '08 Sedan I4 with automatic transmission. I have 3,000 miles on the car. I just drove 188 miles, mostly highway on two trips, driving just 60mph using cruise control. In fact, because only driving 60mph in a 65mph zone, I only had to take the cruise off twice the entire trips. Otherwise, picture me taking 4 trips of about 40 miles each constantly at 60mph on cruise. The other 28 miles were local miles getting to/from house to highway.
That said, I just filled up and put in 8.23 gallons of unleaded gas.
That comes to just 22.8 mpg with mostly constant highway driving. What's going wrong? That's barely above the city mileage epa. Shouldn't I have gotten very close to 30mpg or maybe even more given the drives I did?
What could be causing such bad gas mileage, and if I bring it to the dealer for service, what should I have them look for?
I did get a kick out of your remarks, lol.
Later
Caaz
You need extra room in your gas tank to allow the gasoline to expand. If you top off your tank, the extra gas may evaporate into your vehicle’s vapor collection system. That system may become fouled and will not work properly causing your vehicle to run poorly and have high gas emissions.
Topping off the gas tank can result in your paying for gasoline that is fed back into the station's tanks because your gas tank is full. The gas nozzle automatically clicks off when your gas tank is full. In areas of ozone nonattainment, gas station pumps are equipped with vapor recovery systems that feed back gas vapors into their tanks to prevent vapors from escaping into the air and contributing to air pollution. Any additional gas you try to pump into your tank may be drawn into the vapor line and fed back into the station’s storage tanks.
Another thing is that your sample is too small - you need to use a full tank to better judge your mpg and reduce your fill up error. Also try to use the same pump and fill the same way.
Lastly - city mpg will drop your highway mileage like a rock. 28 miles of city out of 188 highway miles will bring things down quite a bit. On top of that you have 4 different starts for your highway, so the car has to warm up 4 times, each time using more gasoline.
Are you using pure gasoline or an ethanol blend. 10% ethanol takes about 5% off the top of your mileage.
Tankbeans - I have been driving a stick since the 70's and also found the Accord to be extremely quiet (compared to my Integra) and left the car in 4th gear a few times on the highway because I was used to the high rpm. Even left it in third once. It was not unusual for the Integra to go over 4,000 rpm for hours at a time so it took a little adjusting to the lower rpms. I usually noticed when I took my foot off of the gas and the car slowed down right away instead of gradually.
The timing of the clutch will come.
Tought my wife on an '80 Scirocco and she was the one who bought the Integra with the stick. Still remember when she was just learning and parked against a small concrete parking curb. When she came back to the car the spot in front of her was open so she thought she would pull through instead of backing out (forgot about the parking curb). She let the clutch out, but the car stalled. She figured she needed to give it more gas, and more, and more. Finally she jumped over the stop(s) and bounced out of the parking lot.
Yes - while fill up error does happen, especially with small fillups, it can be greatly reduced if the same person fills up the tank in the same manner and the same pump.
Don't worry about the one or two (mostly one) vocal people who doubt your numbers. You know how accurate they are as do most others. I did enjoy your different driving styles for the same long trip that repeatedly showed what the Camry could do at various speeds.
On the other hand I'm not as concerned with accuracy since I generally, well for the past year, have filled up only at about 3 different SAs. I would assume that their pumps are all pretty much the same.
One thing I might try is filling ever other week instead of every week. Because by the end of each week I'm only down "half" tank. I can generally go another week without worrying, but I haven't up 'til now. I also remember more people saying that it might yield a higher number because the gas is being depleted. I'll have to try it.
I think I might also put a touch more air in my tires. Does anybody know of a decent gauge? I have three and they all read different numbers. Would a digital be a little better?
Dudley and I have both made the mistake about not hearing the engine and remaining in 4th gear on the highway. However, the tach is quite helpful for knowing when to shift. A quick glance becomes second nature after awhile. I was amazed how much quieter my 06 engine is compared to my 95.
The Accord does not have a shift light.
A side note: Every car I've owned with a stick has an owner's manual that tells you when to shift using the speedometer instead of the tach. I've always found that interesting. :confuse:
My highest tank remains 41.7 mpg and the lowest was 28.0 mpg.
I've only had 8 tanks under 30 mpg (two of them were 29.9 and two were 29.8) and only two tanks that were below 29. I should have been keeping track of my lifetime avg. like Dudley
These averages are all figured the old-fashioned way although my trip computer is usually close to these numbers. I'm guessing that at 50k miles, most of the pump variations aren't a factor. :shades:
Oh wait - filling error works 2 ways. Maybe my mpg is actually better than my calculations."
Well, actually not. Not unless you are correcting for error in the odometer (about 5% in my Accord). You're still getting over 35 mpg.
Tallman - I suspect your lifetime is near mine or higher. It gets real cold here in the winter, and mileage suffers. My 10 tank average sometimes dips under 30 mpg. Lots of short trips one school starts up as well.
I learned to shift just watching my Father when I was a kid, once you know the limits of each gear, you should shift based on the power you need at the time of the application.
Did you see a difference in gas mileage from when you first bought the car to today, and if the mpg did start to improve at what point was that.
pack
That's the same way with me. Now I just need to be able to drive a manual enough to get comfortable in everyday situations. Starting from a dead stop is my problem. Other than that I'm fine.
My friend took me out in his Mustang about a week ago, at 5 in the morning. Not many people on the road, but I was still nervous starting at a stop light. He said part of it was because the car was more powerful than any I'd driven and that it was rwd. I don't know how true it was.
Other than that I was able to tell by the sound of the engine when the time came to shift. I have to admit I was winding it out to have a little bit of fun with it. Down-shifting is a whole other story. I know how, I'm just not sure when. I need to drive one.
However, I won't buy one until I'm comfortable with them. Everybody I know who knows how to drive them won't drive an auto unless they have to because manuals are much more versatile and you can get better performance out of less power, if you know what you're doing. Anyway, I'm rambling. Sorry about that.
As soon as this semester is over I'm going to see if my friend will start taking me out driving more often.
You know, I was worried about my mileage when I took early retirement about a year and a half ago. I used to have a long commute and now I drive my daughter around more and there are a lot more short trips. However, it really didn't suffer that much. I get more low 30s than mid-30s but I can't complain.
I keep a book with all my data in my car so I could figure out my lifetime mileage. I'd have to be REAL bored someday.