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Subaru's fortunes sinking - can they turn it around?
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LOL - how's the little girl? She have you wrapped around her little finger yet?
The Tribeca doesn't have anything like that. I mean, the interior is probably it's best attribute, but it's not so magnificent that it makes people ooh and ahh.
It's late to the party without a big gift for the host.
I have no doubt the Tribeca will increase sales at Subaru. But whether or not it increases sales enough to justify the extra costs for producing it are another matter. Could they have increased sales just as much by offering a new variant of the Forester, Outback, or Impreza?
Robr - Nah, just a busy day at the office. No time for a lunch break.
Subaru knew they were going to alienate some people with the new look. I don't think they expected to alienate as many as they did, however. I'm sure that was a surprise to many FHI executives.
The '02 WRX is another great example, very much along the Avalanche/Ridgeline comparison I mentioned. The styling wasn't great, but it offered so much power and fun, that the styling gaffs were largely ignored by those who bought them.
I've long been a believer in delivering more than you promise. Customers are then pleasantly surprised. With the Tribeca, Subaru did just the opposite: they promised more than they could deliver. Again, if you're going to have controversial looks, you need a few aces up your sleeve to wow the customers. The WRX, Avalanche and Ridgeline had those aces; the Tribeca doesn't.
Ooops... I didn't mean to prolong this painful discussion.
Bob
Bob
And, despite that relatively lesser controversy, Subaru changed the bug eyes not too long ago. Even before they revised it yet again with the new corporate look. So Subaru definitely reacted to the "bug eyes" even though the reaction wasn't as strong as the Tribeca's (and even though the WRX was more compelling).
(I still disagree about the Avalanche and the Ridgeline because I don't hear as many folks call them ugly. The Aztek may be a better comparison, but there's no sense continuing down this line.)
I agree with Bob that FHI was surprised by the reaction. That's just the breaks in the industry.
Given that Subaru reacted to lesser criticism on the bug-eyed Impreza, hopefully we'll see a less controversially styled Tribeca in the next couple of model years.
Then, throw in a larger H6 or turbocharge the 3.0 H6, add in a few more expected bells and whistles, and it'd be a solid contender. It'd certainly be in my top five to test-drive (based on what we currently know of the marketplace -- obviously the competition will keep upgrading too).
I do, respectfully, disagree with varmint that Subaru could have increased sales by varying their current models -- at least, sales from a long-term perspective. I think that, even with the high development costs, Subaru had to bring a mid-sized SUV to market. They already had a competitive compact SUV (and distinguished it with the XT variant), have the wagons taken care of, and have subcompacts.
It's not dissimilar to what Honda did, after having a compact SUV but needing a larger one. Obviously Honda aims for higher sales volumes overall, but Honda felt they needed one, just like they felt they needed a pickup (whose market success is still in question). And, unlike Honda, Subaru didn't have an upmarket brand to offer more models with. So I think the idea behind launching the Tribeca was solid, even if not everyone agrees on the final product.
Any word on how much Subaru actually spent to develop the Tribeca? Using a variants of their existing hardware had to lessen the cost, though obviously any new model costs heavy dollars.
Do you think the outgoing '06 Avalanche is better looking than the Tribeca?
Bob
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yes.
I had discussed this with a friend and he commented that he didn't think the Avalance or Ridgeline were ugly at all. His opinions on you-know-what are even more negative than mine, but why belabor this thread with his adjectives.
I had to go over to the Chevy website as I haven't seen many lately.
Huh. What's wrong with it? Not only is it not ugly, I think it looks good.
EXCEPT when someone puts the (optional) push bar or side cladding on it, as in some of the photos. But the stock look, hey, that's pretty good!
http://www.chevrolet.com/avalanche/photogallery/
I suppose some people would object to the long cab and the rear, but it has a clear function (and doesn't look bad either). I can't say the same about the vehicle you're asking me to compare it with.
Sorry, it's just my opinion. (And I'm not alone.) I suppose my stance on the looks of the Tribeca have softened somewhat, just not enough. Maybe after a couple of more years of seeing them, who knows.
Gonna be tough to offer more variety in the sub $20K range while keeping AWD and all of Subaru's safety hardware as standard content. But I've been a fan of the plan since the opening of this thread. Subaru needs to work their up the food chain from the bottom, similar to what Hyundai has done. They don't need to give up the high content, high quality cars they offer already, but they need to offer something less expensive for a wider range of buyers.
We purchased our '04 Outback automatic in June '04 as the new body style '05s were coming out, and our price came in under $20k.
Outback under $20k can be done. Of course, there's not much profit in that for the dealer, which was the fellow's main goal in that article.
Bob
Uh, Bob, I knew that as soon as you started saying the Tribeca was "distinctive" and "not ugly." Tastes great, less filling.
Exactly, the point was not that you could perhaps spend your mmorning whittling down a dealer to zero profit and get an Outback for $19,995. It was that he (and other dealers) would like an Outback with a $19,995 price tag, which they could advertise as such, then sell for $18K making a healthy profit.
I don't think they will get what they are asking for though. They do have a good point in general. The only other company whose least expensive model is as high-priced as Subaru is VW, and even there the New Beetle is $1000 cheaper than the cheapest Impreza. Yet by comparison, most of the VW dealers around here are stand-alone, or combo stores with Cadillac or Audi, and they are posh affairs with espresso lounges and whatnot.
Compare that with the typical Subaru dealership: a raggle-taggle affair, NEVER stand-alone, and usually combined with Mazda or other competing Japanese brands, sometimes several other brands, heck one near me is even a combo Subaru/Ford dealer. You can forget your espresso lounge or much in the way of niceties, and my nearest dealer doesn't even have a proper showroom for the Subarus, just a converted front office that fits a couple of cars and nothing else - indeed no-one is stationed in there, so if you want a question answered, you then have to traipse across the lot to the Mazda showroom, which is much bigger and is where all the staff are. I remember when the Tribeca'd Impreza arrived, it took them like four months to get the '05 out of there and put in the current model. Same thing last year when the Forester changed over.
Yet the bottom end of the sticker price spectrum of Subarus is one of the highest of any manufacturer short of luxury makes.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Interesting you bring up VW dealerships. In Bellevue, WA, Chaplins has a combination VW/Subaru dealership. Two small buildings just feet from each other, and a shared lot. The dealership's facility is, overall, unimpressive. The "action" seems to be in the VW segment, where the offices are located. BTW I have a high opinion of this dealership.
As you said, some of the worse pricing spectrum is VW's. In the last-generation Passat, VW introduced a W8 variant that was close to $40k. Even today, you can get a sub $20's Jetta (that's not a stripper by any means) and a Jetta that's north of $30k.
But if Subaru could still make money on a $19,995 Legacy (maybe not an Outback), I think it might generate more traffic into the dealerships. But that's a big if.
Even if they don't actually sell many of them, it's a good thing to present. Legacy/Outback sales don't seem to be growing significantly, and a redesign is still some time away. Price does sell, as the Korean manufacturers have taken advantage of.
No, but overall they sold 44 more vehicles last year than the year before, so it was another record year for Subaru - woo hoo! LOL
They just souped up the Legacy a bit for the '06 MY, right? Aren't the 17" rims standard across the line now or something?
They should offer last year's base model as a 2.5 VE. I bet they could get down to $19,995 as a base price if they tried. For a while now they have been trying to move upmarket in content and equipment, and prices have been increasing quite quickly as a result. They need to take a breather, and let the market catch up.
I have just read a couple of different comparos that pitted the Legacy GT spec B against the Mazdaspeed 6 (and sometimes other cars as well) and while both cars were generally well thought of, the MS6 always got kudos for being several thousand $$ cheaper. And I mean, $34K for the spec B? That's a LOT of dough. You're in BMW's and Lexus' basement there, not to mention well into Audi's A4 range, and a number of other European cars.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Few or none of the cheaper-than-Impreza models from other brands come with AWD.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Maybe they should reconsider that.
No doubt the addition of AWD to the Subaru line has been a boon for them. But if the high costs associated with it are preventing them from reaching buyers...
Might be a regional thing, but, here in my neck of the woods (southern MA), both Subaru dealers are stand-alone. One has always been a decent facility. The other was recently upgraded from a small shop to a more full-size facility like the Toyota, Honda, and Ford dealers. This new unit is actually bigger than the combined Mazda/VW shop two doors down.
As for the grilles, well, the 00-04 Legacy went through a good dozen or so, so it actually is common for Subaru to change it every year, often 2-3 per year if you include special editions, even using different ones for different markets. The first generation Forester went through 4 grille designs in 5 years (black, chrome, then the 01, then the optional waterfall chrome). And that's just in the USA, the STI model had different grilles as well.
The WRX had plenty of controvery with the bug eyes, IMO more than the Tribeca, probably because of the lower price point and the fact that it's targeted at the enthusiasts who talk about cars all the time.
WRX was called ugly day in, day out, compared to a Neon (to me the front was just as close to a Porsche 911, but noone would listen).
-juice
Same here - north of Boston:
Wilmington Subaru finally got it's own building - new Subaru spec. No more sharing with the used car superstore next door.
Ira Subaru moved into their old Mazda building. One huge lot with Subaru, Mazda, Lexus, Porsche, Audi.
Wakefield Subaru is still stuffed into an old converted Chrysler showroom complete with 70's paneling.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Uh, no, no one is quoting him like it's gospel. That's just a convenient conclusion you've made
It's just an opinion. Just like opinions on "distinctive" and "ugly."
Though, to some of us, the quote is an accurate and/or funny one.
To answer Jeff's query, sure, some of us appreciate female organs. Just not on the front of our vehicles
Seriously, it looks more like a turkey fryer. :P
Exclusive dealerships are the new industry trends. They get allowances from manufacturers that are bigger if they have their own show room. That's why Fitz in Rockville kicked Isuzu out, basically, and the Subaru/Toyota dealership in Gaithersburg are back-to-back, each with its own "front" entrance.
-juice
The other area Subaru dealer, on the same road about ten miles away, is Subaru-Dodge.
I had the best experience at Carter Subaru, but ended buying at Renton's Subaru for the best price and good buying experience as well.
Combined with this third time (which resulted in the purchase of an Outback XT), we liked the low-pressure approach from the three different salespeople. They let us drive off in the vehicles without a salesperson tagging along, without taking copies of our licenses, without even asking for a telephone number.
I'm curious how you got different treatment from Chaplin's Subaru vs. Chaplin's VW. The salespeople seemed interchangeable, they sold both VW's and Subaru's. I wonder if you just happened upon some of their poorer salespeople in the Subaru building? To be fair, I think 2 out of the 3 times we walked into the VW dealership first. But I remember the salesperson we met in the Subaru dealership (who also showed us a Passat) was great.
Eastside Subaru NEVER responded to my requests for an email quote. Renton Subaru was very responsive, if a bit aggressive over email/phone, but they were also very aggressive in pricing (Renton/Auburn dealers tend to do that). However, their service department doesn't open on Saturdays. Some of the other Subaru dealerships don't seem as friendly in giving loaners for vehicles you didn't buy at their dealership.
I did contact the gentleman from www.cars101.com and Carter Subaru, as highly recommended by Jeff here. He was very competitive in pricing and seemed very straightforward and honest. E.g. he gave his low price immediately, whereas Renton Subaru started with a pretty low price, but I knew could go even lower with more prodding. But unfortunately he (the gentleman from Carter Subaru) didn't get back to me for a couple of days and by then I was done. However, I'd certainly recommend him.
Even though I had an awful experience at Carter Saab/VW (different location). Their Internet sales manager pulled a bait/switch at the 11th hour when I leased my Saab. He claimed that the quotes he had been giving me were for a lesser-equipped model and I was mistaken. However, he had jotted down the options of the model and price on the back of his business card, when my wife went separately to the dealership to test-drive the vehicle! So I gave up on him on the last day of the month. He tried calling me repeatedly on my cell phone, including blocking his number so I couldn't tell it was him calling.
However, I'd shop Carter Subaru. Just not Carter VW/Saab.
BTW, we brought our new Outback back to Chaplins to get the trailer hitch installed (wasn't port-installed, but part of the deal). The loaner was a '95 Impreza
I got outstanding deals on both purchases there, but I do see a few Renton Subaru license plate frames, even up here, so they must do good on pricing. I've also heard good things about Peninsula Subaru, which I believe is the Kitsap dealer fintail mentioned a few posts earlier.
I wish all of Subaru's dealerships were as committed to the brand as most of the ones around here seem to be... it'd help 'em sell more, particularly higher-end Subaru models, which customers from other upscale brands seem to be considering more often. No one wants to go into a crummy dealership after they've experienced a good one.
wmquan - glad your experience online w/Carter was good. He is a very straightforward guy, which is refreshing.
SUV's are also extremely popular here. Unfortunately, I think I've only seen four or five Tribecas on the road. The salesperson at Chaplin's did say that they were selling slowly at his dealership. Besides the controversial styling, he wishes that Subaru had made the Tribeca bigger.
Of course, a bigger Tribeca would be in greater need of a more robust powerplant.
Extended wheelbase Tribeca with a turbocharged H6?
The HL hybrid took the typical Toyota route - offer it only in the ultra-mega-Limited-XLE trim, with a consequent price tag of about $100 grand.
Put a hybrid powertrain in a Pilot LX FWD and sell it for $30K, and watch it sell like hotcakes...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
And the same salesman. He was astonished that I was not willing to pay $1,500 more - for the identical car than Manchester Subaru. I bought my first two there but won't be back.
But what you wrote about price is true. It also backs up my point. If Subaru developed a hybrid Tribeca would it be a cheap hybrid? Could they match the 23K starting price of the Greenline VUE? The reason for offering hybrids only in loaded trims is to make them profitable. If it were going to be a profitable vehicle, Subaru would have to charge at least $3K more than a comparable non-hybrid.
If they don't load it up with goodies, the profit margin will stink like so many Bajas left out in the sun. And what does Subaru need with a non-profitable vehicle?
I think they have bigger fish to fry.
It won't be cheap, that's for sure. Subaru has to figure out a way to add value. My idea was to offer a generator like Chevy does on its pickup, for power outages.
-juice
But I am assuming economies of scale will begin to come into play here, if Subaru is allowed to use Toyota's Synergy Drive, now that Toyota is part-owner.
Maybe both hybrid HL's and hybrid Tribecas could be offered at lower prices.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That quote's from the following story on a new Subaru ad campaign which will emphasize safety. And it's certainly good news for Subaru.
I think the ad campaign will also be good news and continue to build brand image. If folks want the safest cars, they'll think of Subaru. Interestingly, the campaign features Sheryl Crow's "Every Day Is a Winding Road". Crow is the former girlfriend of former Subaru spokesperson Lance Armstrong.
I'd post a link, but registration is required for the site. Sorry.
"SUBARU BORROWS FROM VOLVO TO TOUT SAFETY FEATURES
Signs Sheryl Crow for New Campaign's Commercial Music
February 15, 2006
By Jean Halliday
DETROIT (AdAge.com) -- Subaru of America, in a quest to broaden its reach, is lifting a page out of Volvo's playbook to advertise its all-wheel drive models for 2006.
An integrated campaign breaking today on national TV will tout safety awards the carmaker has won from independent third parties. The focus of the campaign will be on active and passive safety, a hallmark of Ford Motor Co.'s Volvo. Subaru inked a one-year deal with singer Sheryl Crow to use her song “Every Day Is a Winding Road” in all its TV and radio ads, said Tim Bennett, director-advertising. In addition to new broadcast commercials, the song will also be laid over existing ads. He declined to discuss terms of the deal.
Omnicom Group’s DDB Worldwide, New York, handled the campaign.
Performance and safety
“Subaru is still the only manufacturer to that puts all-wheel-drive on all its cars,” Mr. Bennett said. All-wheel-drive made the brand popular in snowy areas in the Northeast and Northwest. But the Fuji Heavy Industries-owned company wants to move the brand out of that weather-related box. “We need to take all-wheel-drive and move it to a performance feature and a safety feature.”
Subaru has successfully added performance to its repertoire with its Impreza WRX.
Subaru fell short of its goal of selling 200,000 vehicles in the U.S. last year, a goal it plans to hit in 2006. The company said it sold 196,002 Subarus in 2005 vs. 187,402 the prior year. Most of the boost can be tied to last year’s launch of the B9 Tribeca sport utility vehicle. More than half of Tribeca buyers were new to the Subaru brand, mostly from other Asian models, said Bill Cyphers, VP-sales.
The automaker spent $135 million in measured media through November 2005 compared to $159 million in calendar 2004, according to TNS Media Intelligence.
Shifting media mix
Subaru is shifting its media mix this year. Although Mr. Bennett wouldn’t reveal specifics, he said the brand will increase online spending 15% compared to last year; beef up its radio buy by 10% (including Sirius satellite radio); and have a much lighter presence on weekend TV, when its active owners and target buyers are presumably tooling around in their all-wheel-drive models.
The new campaign will include out-of-home ads with provocative statements aimed at sending passers-by to Subaru.com. “Air bags save lives. All wheel drive saves air bags,” one billboard will say.
The advertising will keep the “Think. Feel. Drive” tagline developed by DDB nearly a year ago after it won the account.
Mr. Bennett said he met Ms. Crow at a Subaru-related cycling event, although the marketer and DDB considered hundreds of songs over three months. Ms. Crow’s ex-boyfriend, Tour de France legend Lance Armstrong, had appeared in Subaru ads from 2003 until last year."
On the positive side - NO MORE DUST IN THE WIND!! Yeah, oh joy, happy happy!!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The only weakness is that Subaru doesn't offer VDC in enough models and in enough trims. But they can advertise the standard AWD across the board, great test results, and active head restraints.
Subaru could also market on price, as their offerings are way cheaper than comparable offerings than Volvo. Of course, that's a bit dangerous since the Volvos sometimes have some more bells and whistles than what Subaru currently offers (xenons, headlamp washers, fancier dealerships, etc.).
If Subaru is confident of the Tribeca's roof structure, they should also advertise what Volvo and Mercedes have -- show video of rollover tests and the roof staying intact. That's always an issue with safety-minded SUV buyers.
You've got companies like Kia and Hyundai marketing their five-star scores -- even if the five star score was in only one category (e.g. for side-impact, but not for front-impact).
Safety-oriented advertising should help with the family demographic, thus benefiting Tribeca and Legacy/Outback sales more than Impreza sales.
As far as Sheryl and Lance go -- this campaign has probably been in the works for months. So it probably started before their breakup (or at least the public disclosure of the breakup).
I'm glad to see the "dust in the wind" advertising go away.
Yet, I am re-thinking my passion for and commitment to the Subaru brand. The title of this forum is Subaru sinking, can it turn it around. It would be a shame if Subaru were to fail. I really like the cars. However, if Subaru is to fail, I really think it is because as a company it fails to do the little things well, not the big things. I hope that as head of sales, Bill Cyphers, is listening in on this forum. It isn't about advertising, slogans, or who sings your background music on TV commercials--although I was pleased with the demise of "Dust in the Wind," along with many of you.
I've posted in the Forester forum, my frustration that Subaru is now offering satellite radio (welcome to 2006!) but in a stroke of true bizarreness they are only offering XM with the Tribeca and Sirius with the Forester. I've written to Subaru and received the standard, "thanks, but we are a small car company," response.
My position is that Subaru has always done the big things well. Good engineering. Great all wheel drive system. Terrific reliability, etc. Yet, the company can't do the small things well. For example, when you get a new Subaru, you can't get satellite radio installed at the dealer, the accessories selection is a mess, the dealerships are not that comfortable (I realize this is a case by case scenario), forget about getting help on roof racks (you have to get those on your own), no navigation option (only on Tribeca) and now you get this, yes, you can have satellite radio, but we pick the company and never mind if you already have XM and want to buy a new Forester--its Sirius or nothing.
If I were Subaru, I would start focusing on the little things. As a person who only shopped Subaru, I was taken aback by the ease of doing business when I just visited the Land Rover, Nissan and BMW dealers.
Maybe the good folks can use the power of this forum to define areas where Subaru can turn it around with a focus on the little things that matter to us brand loyalists far more than the TV commericals?
I never thought I would say this but my next new car will most likely be ABS--anything but Subaru.
Welcome thoughts on the subject.
The marketing hack quoted above says something like he "wants to get away from being the all-weather brand", but the reason Sube IS the all-weather brand is because of the standard AWD, which makes all Subarus so pricey in their size classes that it caps the sales potential of the brand.
So if they're not going to be the all-weather brand, why not make it the performance brand, and develop a line of $20K-and-up RWD cars off the same platforms? They would be in a class of one then, whereas being "AWD, all the time" is no longer a class of one, far from it. Pretty soon most cars will be available with AWD.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The person quoted from Subaru actually wasn't a marketing "hack" but rather a sales person, I think. Big difference.
I wish as a sales person he would focus on delivering a better customer experience. On a side note, from a marketing perspective, I get the Subaru brand because I am (or was) a core Subaru buyer. But, you have to wonder what the brand and marketing message is from Subaru. They jump from message to message, campaign to campaign, with no real clarity. First we have Lance. Then we have all-wheel drive. Then we have the end of the SUV as we know it. With all wheel drive thrown in and now a safety message.
It is funny that a company with unique, safe, reliable, technologically sophisticated, cars would struggle so much with figuring out who they are and what they stand for. Gee, remember Paul Hogan?
Worse. I don't really car. I just wish they wouldn't be so screwed up and that you could get the radio you want with the car you want. Along with a reasonable, not asking for great, just a reasonable brand buying experience.
I went to Chaplin's fall 2004 and after looking at the Outback and getting that sales pitch from salesperson, I asked to take a look at the passat wagon 4motion as well, since that was all the same dealer. Well, he said to me to walk over the other building and find a salesman over there since he was not supposed to sell VWs.
It might be they changed their policy, or it might be the guy was just plain lazy, but the way he treated me made me cross that place from my map.
Eastside subaru did not provide me any quotes over the phone, but they repeatedly called me to come to their dealership to make a special deal for me (their extra 40k mi powertrain warranty and other little things to jack the price up).
Yes, Renton was very aggressive in pricing, but in my case they offered 500 less than carter's low price offer up front, and lowered that a some more later when I called to say I would a few more days to think about it. Yes, they service dept hours are limited, but I'm not planning to drive that far just to change oil anyway.