Honda Civic Real World MPG

targettuning

I will state that there are three basic ways to drive (with infinite variations of each)...as follows:
1. All city with few highway trips..variations of this are the size of your "city" and how congested it gets and how many longer trips you make (escape the city). This is the worst for fuel economy and it is perfectly possible to get in the low to middle 20's in this situation,
2. Normal type commute. A commuter drives 20-30-40-50 or more miles on a relatively uncongested interstate BEFORE entering an inner-city to get to the "office". Time spent in actual stop-creep-stop driving may be limited. Highway driving drives up the average. Upper 20's to low 30's is entirely possibe here,subject to variables.
3.A driver who spends all his/her time on an interstate at highway speeds (for whatever reason). This, I think, is fairly uncommon but expect upper 30's here..subject to variables e.g. terrain, weather (head winds etc.), tire pressure etc. etc.. So,almost every driver pretty much falls into one of these broad categories. I cannot or will not tell you you cannot achieve 35 mpg in your circumstance if you don't tell me I am doing something WRONG to get 25 mpg in mine..deal?

ruking1

I think you either misintrepret or misapply the posts I have made.

First of all, I have and still believe you when you tell me you get 25 mpg. It is YOU that does not believe ME getting 38-42 mpg!!!The real world ranges are even posted on the new car stickers!! I have posted what it says on my new car sticker!? So I have posted in numerous ways and posts that 25 mpg is perfectly within the range of the Honda Civic. Others beside I have posted so is 38-42!!! If you doubt that, just go back and look. I have even posted what conditions are most likely for EITHER range and your continued 25 mpg are definite indicators. Getting 38-42 are also definite indicators. Again MORE importantly, I have posted under what CONDITIONS I do get between 38-42.

So do you WANT me to get 25 mpg when I do get 38-42? Can I get 25 mpg under the conditions I drive? But these questions are not really germane to the central issues now are they?

targettuning

Do I want you to get 25 mpg to make me "feel good"? nope, but more importantly I have totally lost track of what you really are saying. All I started out saying is that we get around 25 mpg in our circumstances and that others driving in different situations can possibly get more and maybe less. See my rather long post above that pretty much sums it up. If you get 38-42 great!!! I routinely don't but maybe I could under the right conditions (conditions that we typically don't meet). And the central issue IS real world fuel economy and 25 mpg is mine. Yes they (these questions) are germane to the overall subject. Finally...if you believe any EPA numbers...well. The main numbers are inflated estimates derived from outdated and basically flawed tests. The range in fine print are what other vehicles in the size range could possibly be expected to get if the whole test wasn't pretty much bogus. I guess you can tell I don't believe those numbers and a large number of people (those complaining about not getting the ADVERTISED fuel economy) don't either. For every person stating they get better than EPA there are several times that number complaining they don't. This is pretty much common across the board.

ruking1

"All I started out saying is that we get around 25 mpg in our circumstances and that others driving in different situations can possibly get more and maybe less."

So for discussion sake, the only difference is one gets 25, another gets 38-42!!?? Not a problem here?!?

I think you routinely do those things that get you an average of 25 mpg. Just as I routinely do those things that get 38-42 mpg.

blufz1

Your posts are right on, thanks.

harvey44

Why is everyone so tense about gas mileage? It's an interesting and fun topic, but something to stress over?

thegraduate

Well, people that aren't getting the mileage they thought they would may not have purchased the car, I'd imagine. I truthfully, honestly, and objectively feel that the Civic will get EPA numbers when driven like the EPA does. This is from 7,000 miles of my family's 2007 Civic EX Auto. Lowest mileage = 29 MPG. Best mileage = 37 MPG (driven at and above 80 MPH on our last trip). Dad likes to rev (spends plenty of time at 4k RPM), and on his rush hour interstate commute, averages 31 MPG or so, based on what he's told me.

cmccull

My new 2007 Honda Civic EX Auto first tank of gas, 28.3MPG. Average city and highway. I think for a car that is not even started being broke in, it was good.

barrnone

I bought my 2006 Civic EX Sedan on July 31, and my first tank of gas was all highway. I got about 33 MPG which I figured was pretty solid for a new car that hadn't been broken in yet. Back to my normal driving (which is mostly local but includes a 5 mile highway run each day to work), I started out getting around 28 MPG. But over time the mileage has dropped and my last three tanks were 24.4, 24.4 and then 22.5. I live near Philadelphia so temperatures have dropped, though it's been unseasonable warm here until the last couple of weeks and I do garage my car overnight. For the heck of it I took it to the dealer to make sure everything was okay and they found nothing (which I expected).

Like many here, I'm disappointed in the gas mileage. I would say I drive about 70/30 City/Highway in general, so I didn't expect to see the 30's. But I thought I'd be around 28 on average (give or take). I haven't seen that number since the first month of ownership. I've even made a concentrated effort to drive conservatively, rarely going over 3000 RPM's.

What really bugs me is that I got in the 22-24 range doing the same driving (actually, I was more aggressive with the acceleration) on my previous car, a 2000 Pontiac Grand Am SE (4 door). That's a V6 with considerably more horsepower and heavier as well.

The gas mileage was a strong selling point for me, so yes, I'm unhappy. As I said, I don't expect the EPA numbers but I do expect to be somewhat near them. Getting 22-24 on a 30/40 rated car is unreasonable as far as I'm concerned, regardless of the type of driving. With the weather getting colder now, I'm worried that I'll see it go even lower!

thegraduate

Getting 22-24 on a 30/40 rated car is unreasonable as far as I'm concerned, regardless of the type of driving.

Well, that statement is unreasonable. If one drives 2 miles in 20 minutes of driving, then mileage will be pathetic because you are only averaging 6 miles an hour.

I agree, your mileage sounds kind of low (with your driving I'd think 27-30) but I don't know what your "City" driving consists of. The fact that you got better mileage from your V6 tells me something's up.

piason

I have a 2006 EX and also live out side Philly. I drive 50/50 and only get 25 - 28 mpg. When I first got the car I was in the low 30's and as I got more miles on the car the mileage dropped but I still do the same commute? The numbers are way off? I also bought the car because of the mileage ratings? What a marketing scam! :mad:

ruking1

..."So for example on the new car sticker, for the 2004 Honda Civic, the EPA BOLD numbers are: "29 City/38 Highway". Again if one reads the "finer" print it goes on to say ACTUAL MILEAGE ... will achieve between 24 AND ...34 mpg in the city... 32 AND 44 mpg on the highway"... "...

See msg 363 for the rest of the post.

See your 2006 new car sticker and I bet it is pretty similar.

So I would say it is definitely at the lower part of the range. If conditions do not change, I would suspect similar results. During winter, the fuel is in addition oxygenated, which means in practice, less mpg.

aaronr121

I live in the Philly area too. And with the Oxygenated fuel we now have (and the cooler temps), fuel milage just isn't what it usd to be. Both our vehicles are getting about 2 mpg less than what they got before the fuel change.

ruking1

Again we can even use the bold faced epa figures given known (38 highway/29 city) conditions. So 50C/50H, you would expect 34 overall. So if one did 100% of say, city, it would be an unrealistic expectation to expect 29 mpg; let alone OVER.

So for example, most folks who get app 25 or so have indicated (tough) city conditions so 29-25=4/25= MINUS - 14% So when you have higher % idling and winter conditions and probably a few other conditions unsaid, tougher still.

So to me, the nexus: GIVEN stated conditions, then look for expected fuel mileage.

This is just an editorial comment, but for EXAMPLE; some eastern seaboard cities such as NYC, Boston, Philly, etc., have really made it no secret they are anti car or hostile to operation of cars in their municipalities. Or they use the vilification of them to extract more revenues at multi levels: operation, repair, parking, tickets: such as parking, the various colored zones, metered, speeding, CA stopping (rolling through stop signs) towing, etc, etc.

So I think you are seeing one of the practical aspects OF that hostility.

ruking1

..."So if one did 100% of say, city, it would be an unrealistic expectation to expect 29 mpg; let alone OVER"...

Let me also add vice versa

So if one did 100% of say, highway, it would be an unrealistic expectation to expect 29 mpg; more likely is 38 (EPA) mpg and OVER"

dudleyr

I would certainly hope a Civic gets 40 mpg on the highway. My brother gets 40 mpg with his Accord (stick shift) on the highway.

flash89

I have a little over 1400 miles on my 2007 Civic SI sedan. My last tank averaged 28 miles per gallon. I use premium fuel as recommended. The milage was obtained driving my commute which is just over 30 miles which consists of the following. 4 miles of 35-45mph light traffic city driving. 12-15 miles of 75 mph highway driving and 10-12 miles of stop and go rush hour highway traffic. I drive fairly conservativley shifting before 5000 RPM most of time. However, I hard accelerate and red line the tac 2 or 3 times a day and have a favorite turn that I run hard around every day.

ruking1

I do not sense you are at all unhappy with the mpg; given the conditions and how you drive them.

dudleyr

5000 rpm shifts are conservative? I shift at 2500 when I am just putting around.

This is why comparing fuel mileage is so hard. Everybody defines the parameters differently.

flash89

Right on. That's why I went into so much detail about how I obtained that milage. BTW, keep in mind the SI has a 8000 RPM redline. Shifiting at 5000 RPM is before the VTEC sytem changes timing.

ruking1

This might tie in a bit to what you are saying. I think the recent "deviance" from the laboratory duplicated EPA ratings such as 38 H /29 C to incorporate so called more "real world" figures might be a pre emptive move to forestall higher CAFE standards.

As an example, if we have the debate and opinions about a commonly acknowledged economic, economical and one of the better mpg vehicles; HOW or what basis will they use to bump up CAFE standards when we are already getting from 24-45 mpg on a EPA of 29/38 (2004 Civic)? So 24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,45.!!?? Deviance is the NORM, NOT the exception.

barrnone

Okay, I may have overstated it a bit. Yes, if you are doing nothing but stop and go driving it would be reasonable to expect very low mileage.

My "City" driving is basically suburban driving. Mostly local travel on roads ranging from 25-45 speed limits with traffic lights. Not a lot of congestion as you often have with city driving, but a decent amount of stop and go due to the nature of suburban roads. I mix in 5 mile jaunts on route 295 at about 70 MPH.

blufz1

Drive as slowly as is safe 55 is up to 15% higher mileage than 70. Also purchase fuel in a non ethanol county if you are passing thru. That's up to 10%. Check your tire pressure,it drops in the winter. Hope this helps.

barrnone

Drive as slowly as is safe 55 is up to 15% higher mileage than 70. Also purchase fuel in a non ethanol county if you are passing thru. That's up to 10%. Check your tire pressure,it drops in the winter. Hope this helps.

So basically I have to drive like an old lady to get decent gas mileage? No thanks. My argument has been comparing the mileage I'm getting in my Civic to that of my old V6 Grand Am. Right now I'm getting very similar numbers while doing the same type of driving, except I'm actually accelerating more conservatively. I shouldn't have to drive carefully to improve my mileage from that car to this one. If that's the case, why bother buying a more gas efficient car? Just drive more conservatively!

piason

Most new cars get better MPG with the increase of mileage - NOT HONDA - you lose MPG with more miles you put on the CIVIC from new.

ruking1

Indeed! My swag from the break in from the first 2 intervals of 10,000 mile OCI documentation is little to no mpg improvement, due to end of B/I time/mileage. I did happen to notice a 1-3 mpg INCREASE due to a switch to Mobil One 0w20 FROM oem fill conventional 5w20 with a full 10,000 mile OCI for each. The third 10,000 mile OCI with Mobil One 0w20 confirmed this SOTP SWAG.

targettuning

Up to now I didn't want to bring up this same type of contrast...a 1995 V-6 Dodge Stratus ES (2.5 liter Mitsubishi made V-6) getting similar suburban type driving fuel economy as our 2006 Civic EX automatic sedan. However I'll come out of the closet. The Stratus consistantly gets about 22-23 mpg around our small city/medium town. It also get as much as 27-29 on the highway (in warm weather) and 25-26 or so now in the winter. The Civic gets 24 mpg right now in the winter in similar suburban driving and about 1 1/2 mpg more in the summer. I will concede the Civic handily beats the Stratus on the highway however. Most strange!

barrnone

Well, at least I'm feeling like I'm not alone here. After reading some of the posts of people getting 40+ MPG in this car and averaging mid-30's, I thought it might just be me. Apparently there are plenty of disappointed Civic owners (in terms of gas mileage anyway).

I haven't had a tank of mostly highway since my first one, which produced 33 MPG. I won't judge highway mileage off that one trip, especially since it was a brand new car at the time. My last long trip in my Grand Am went 33 MPG as well, so I would hope the Civic will be better now that it's broken in.

piason

Sorry to say that your mileage will not improve but will only get worst with age.

blufz1

It's not you, it's them.

targettuning

Oh no it isn't just in terms of fuel economy I am not overly happy with the Civic I can live with that. It has had (and still has) various un-Honda like problems. Since this is our first, and probably last, Honda car I bought it believing Honda was "God's own ride" based on all the golden "car magazine" print and word of mouth praise. Most of these have been addressed by Honda via their service bulletins (issued after more than a year of ownership)..some obvious enough they were repaired under warranty and at least one is still outstanding. This isn't a car worth what the current sticker price is asking...$20K or something over if you get the navigation option.

drxsushimon

Is it true that the 2007 Civic actually loses MPG over time, because im not going to buy a car thats not only slow, but will have something like 20 MPG over 10 years. :sick:

dudleyr

Cars do not get worse mileage over time. The only exception is if they lose compression or have mechanical problems.

My Integra is currently getting its best mileage at 225,000 miles. 1,200 mile trip. Average speed just under 70 mph, and got 36.9 mpg. (there was some in town driving). If I keep to 60-65 mph I can get 40-42 mpg for pure highway.

1990 model with a stick shift and 1.8 liter engine.

pulgo

I agree. My 2001 Toyota Echo AT with 160k miles is still achieving 41 MPG on my 50% highway, 50% city commute.

No changes since I bought it new.

On pure highway 41 to 45 MPG is typical for me, even in winter. I do have a block heater and use it every day, for an hour in the morning, using a timer. I also use a partial windblock in front of the radiator, to avoid excessive cooling as temperatures have been below or around the freezing mark.

Tires are kept at 35 PSI, slightly over recommended pressure. This makes at least a 1 MPG difference. Oil is 5W-20, Mobil 1. Probably another MPG gained.

ruking1

I filled today and got 38.4 mpg. If I may observe a bit on the low side of my normal range of 38-42 mpg. But it is winter, and we lose a bit of mpg due to CA oxygenated winter blended fuel (5-7%). Also the stop and go has increased due to accidents etc.

Just after, I started in on and completed a 40,000 mile maintenance cycle. I did a 20,000 mile oil filter change and continue to use Mobil One 0w20 with 20,000 mile OCI's. I peered down the oil cap area and it was clean as a whistle. Stuck my finger to see how it felt, absolutely sludgeless.

johnpl

I bought a 07 Civic Ex w/Nav Auto in early Oct for my daughter. She now has 5000 miles on the vehicle. Every time she gets gas she fills the tank and calculates her mpg. She keeps a sheet on her visor with purchase date, what brand gas, gals used, trip miles, & total miles. We live in the suburbs. She has averaged any where from 21.5 to 26 mpg. Overall she's getting about 24 mpg. My son has an 04 Accord V6 basically the same driving he's averaging 23 mpg. This car was bought for fuel economy. Thats what they advertise. I was honestly expecting about 35 mpg considering the type of driving she does. She's getting 32% below the 35 mpg. I feel I've been conned. If Honda does not resolve this issue, I can honestly say I will not buy another Honda. I had searched Edmunds groups before my purchase and did not find this one. All I read were great reviews. I don't know how those people calculate their mpg, if they even do.

quietspirit

I think it's all advertising just get people to buy there cars. :shades:

ruking1

It might be interesting to know what mpg each would get if they switched cars.

Reminds me once when I went on a cross country trip with my family and folks. (long time ago) The four of us all had our driver's licenses, so we could all share in the driving chores. My mom was driving while the rest of us were asleep. I was stirred awake by a slight buffetting of the car and as I woke slowly I glanced over at the speedometer and it was pegged at 110 mph. So I calmly asked my mom if there were any concerns and she said yeah, I am trying to put some distance between us and a tractor trailer rig. So I cranked my head around and for the life of me couldnt see one behind.

ajbcho

I got my EX AT sedan back in Nov of 06. My mileage has slowly been decreasing. I don't drive much and still under 2K after nearly 3 months. Work and back which is about a 15-17 mile round trip depending on which route I take. All suburban city driving. Not much stop and go, just an easy 35 - 45 mph drive most of the way. Weekends, I'll do leisurely "Sunday driving" to check out some new housing developments 80% city/suburban 20% interstate. I've never WOT'ed it and drive slowly up to speed. Best I got so far is about 26 mpg, past several fill ups have been no more than 24 mpg. Bought this for fuel economy as I had full sized trucks/suvs prior. So I'm not complaining that I'm averaging 23 -24 mpg right now. But as many mentioned, I'd think I should be getting better. I'd of picked up a larger car or small suv for more room if I'd known. Oh well, I'll give it some more miles and see how it goes this summer. If nothing changes, I think it'll be time to move onto something a big larger.

ruking1

I can understand the dissatisfaction at the mpg of Honda Civic's. Given folks mpgs of 23-26, it would be interesting to hear what other cars (under the same driving conditions folks drive their Honda Civics, ) they think would get better mpg.

An easy example: given what folks need/want a NEW Honda Civic why would one pay 300-400 per month when one has a paid for (usually older) car that gets say 18-25 mpg? So why even bother if they get the (high average USA driver) mileage of 15,000 and in most cases a whole lot less!! (per year)

blufz1

Well, you have already taken the depreciation hit so you should keep it for a few more years. You could wait for the Diesel Accord which may be here in fall of 08. Hope this helps.

ruking1

"taken the depreciation hit "

Actually this is a good point, but I think the real issues are what does this practically mean, in the context of the post #448. For example I am SWAGGING most folks can/do not take business accounting "depreciation".

johnpl

I've been reading your posts and it sure seems like you have some connection to Honda.
You like to point the finger at the driver for the low mpg. Just reread my original post, and I think it explains it all. ITS NOT THE DRIVER, ITS THE CAR. I'm going to make sure that other people are not mislead like I was. Your posts are definitely misleading.
Thank you.

ruking1

I have NO connection at all to Honda, other than I own a sub $13k Civic. I think you are being misleading in that I have said CLEARLY to read (YOUR) the new Honda Civic sticker!!! I quoted what mine said.

MSG 363 ..."So for example on the new car sticker, for the 2004 Honda Civic, the EPA BOLD numbers are: "29 City/38 Highway". Again if one reads the "finer" print it goes on to say ACTUAL MILEAGE ... will achieve between 24 AND ...34 mpg in the city... 32 AND 44 mpg on the highway"...

So it seems to me if someone is getting 24 mpg they are telling me it is within the RANGE.

Perhaps you should read (yours) and quote it.

Your opinion of my posts are not based on the facts of what I posted, and so are off base.

You are welcomed.

johnpl

Again if one reads the "finer" print it goes on to say ACTUAL MILEAGE ... will achieve between 24 AND ...34 mpg in the city... 32 AND 44 mpg on the highway"...

I'm doing 60% suburban driving with the rest being highway. My low mpg s/b probably 30.
You can say you have NO connection to Honda, then do you work for the EPA?

ruking1

Neither.

It is good that you are stating the conditions in which you drive. It gives a bit more history and if folks have questions, they of course can and do fire away.

ajbcho

Well aware of the 1st year depreciation, but that'll only be a small factor with me if I decide to trade. I sacrificed less room for mileage. My experience thus far, I could be in a larger car for a small hit in mileage or even the same. Family, in-laws, friends all have larger cars from Honda and other makes and they seem to be averaging about what I'm getting right now in a compact car. A family member has an early 90's Toyota with over 150K and burns a quart of oil every month that gets 30 city driving. I'm pretty sure it's not my driving style as I've never passed 3000 rpm on the Civic. I stay around 2500 rpm on average and not much stop and go or idling.
I had a newer full sized truck with a 5.4 V8 and got 16 mpg and I believe EPA stated 16/city for it, same routine. Saw the 30/city 40/hiway and figured I'd double my mileage, but it hasn't happened yet.

blufz1

I understand the frustration. I'm just trying to save you some $. Just do the mileage math vs. the buying a new car math and it's usually less expensive to keep what you have. Plus your car is new and will last a long time and 2 or 3 years from now diesel accords will be available that "really do get 40 mpg." Just be cool and don't let your frustration cost you $. The fewer cars you own in your lifetime,the more $ you will have. Good luck.

blufz1

I'm not talking about GAAP or tax depreciation. I'm talking about financial depreciation. Btw, next time I buy a new car I'm going to read the fine print so I get higher mpg like you.

ruking1

..."I'm talking about financial depreciation"...

In that context, that canliterally mean a host of things. So to me to be the most unambiguous we can put it in (operational) cost per mile driven as a starter.

In the context of your second comment, believe it or not, the Honda Civic was NOT my first pick. However it was a fairly good balance of what I was looking for. Again for starters :

1. a 5/7 day, 54 r/t mile daily commute

2. with 2/7 day errand/run around

3. automatic

4. low acqusition cost

5. lowest depreciation over a 5 year lifespan (18k per year 90k) in case I decide to sell

6. mileage horizon of a min of 315,000 miles (3 timing belt changes)