Subaru Minivan in 2007?

sweet_subie

Their key advantages of Mazda 5 are:

1. Small carlike ride.
2. Good gas mileage (25-20 mpg)
3. inexpensive
4. 3 rows of airbags. (shame on tribeca)
5. sliding doors - easy for parking.

but they should have a v6 as an option.

once_for_all

vehicle stability assist in also.

It is sure easy to tell a manufacturer that they need to do this or that to improve their vehicle and make more sales, but then we say we can't afford the vehicle anymore.

I am waiting for the Mazda 5 to come in with a TDI. I am still convinced that my next vehicle will be a diesel, especially if I can cash in on the energy bill's supposed $3400 tax credit (not deduction!) for a clean diesel.

Yowsa. Still wishing Subaru would come in shortly with either a diesel (unlikely) or a good hybrid system (seems far off also).

John

ateixeira

To be fair it comes in at a lower price point, but I'd take VDC to avoid an accident rather than curtains in the 3rd row that only come in to play if you're in one.

Gas mileage isn't that good, either, in fact it really ought to be better given the engine size.

Price is great, though, and perhaps that is why they made some compromises. They kept AWD and power sliding doors in Japan, those key features won't be in US models.

-juice

sweet_subie

It is inexcusable that Subaru is selling Tribeca for 39k without 3rd row of side air bags.

ateixeira

I don't really agree.

First, side curtains don't really protect children, since they'd be in booster seats. And children are the ones that are going to be back there.

The other thing is the rear quarter window is so tiny that the head would hit the thick D-pillar if anything, not the window. I'll try to find a photo for reference.

-juice

ateixeira

Look how small this is. Compare to the 5, which has a window probably 4 times bigger, and where the 3rd row passenger might actually contact the glass.

-juice

once_for_all

The Dream Mazda 5:

Boxer engine (173 hp) with VTD, stability system, and AWD.

Price point: $20k.

John

sweet_subie

juice,

for 39k, is VDC & 3 rows of airbags together too much to ask for ? c'mon don;t justify this anymore.

ateixeira

They max out at just over $38k, and those sell for $35k or so. You build to a certain price point. No, it doesn't have everything, but the vehicles that do run low $40s in that segment (go price a loaded XC90).

Maybe if it had 3-row SAC it would cost $39k, LOL.

John: they would lose money on every one. You're talking about a Forester with added features and interior space. Price would be more like $24k for a base model, $28k well equipped.

-juice

once_for_all

well then it won't compete favorably with a 2wd Mazda that sells at $18k.

I was thinking more along the lines of the Impreza, which would compete at that price point.

John

ateixeira

Tough to say what the starting point would be given those two share a platform. But I can't imagine they could build a 3-row 6 seater for less than the price of a Forester. VDC adds cost, too. So my guess would be a price $2000 or so higher than a Forester.

Look at how Mercedes priced the R-class. Ouch. $10 grand more than an ML, the SUV it's based on.

-juice

once_for_all

Subaru shouldn't continue to build higher end vehicles but concentrate on the functionality of its roots.

The B9 is a good enough flagship, we don't need a small Subie minivan that is priced like an Odyessey, Sienna, or Caravan.

Mazda hit it right, at just the right time. Folks are looking to get out of the less efficient people movers, especially if they can do it under $20 k, get upper 20's mpg, and still have good flexibility and safety in a vehicle.

I think Subaru can do it, but it needs to compete pricewise with the Mazda 5. A couple thou more for AWD won't be a problem. $6k more? don't think it will work.

John

once_for_all

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=103029

But it seems to indicate more that we are looking at a 7 seat minivan, not the "vanlet" of the Mazda 5.

I would rather see Subaru go small than to jump in with the rest of the crowd.

John

ateixeira

Not much substance to that story, if you ask me.

-juice

rsholland

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=103075

ateixeira

Funny, they say it's global and sound pretty certain it'll come here. Edmunds was pretty sure it would *not* come here.

Who knows?

-juice

once_for_all

Edmunds got their information from an "SOA representative". Autoweek said global sales including US. My speculation is that this will be a world car like the Mazda 5, with US introduction entirely dependent on where gas prices and competition take the marketplace.

If we continue on this gas crisis track, a Legacy based, 6 + 1 three row configuration is sounding better all the time.

John

ateixeira

Too bad it's not ready, we'd seriously consider one.

We like the Tribeca but have not budgeted $30-35k.

At $22k we might take the plunge. Even $25k, maybe.

-juice

once_for_all

us too, our MPV is a solid people mover but it is somewhat thirsty with the Ford engine. And my wife would have preferred an MT.

What is the DW favoring? Still the Legacy GT?

John

rsholland

I don't think you will see those kinds of prices. I don't expect it to be at or below the Legacy. I expect it to fall somewhere in between the Legacy and Tribeca.

Bob

once_for_all

the benchmark for the "small" minivan will be the Mazda 5 at about $18-$22k, the latter fully loaded with Nav.

A fully loaded AWD version with rear AC? My guess is if it breaks the $25k barrier folks will steer down towards the Mazda 5, or up to an Ody, Sienna, or Chrysler.

My point is that Subaru needs to carefully rethink this box to hit a homerun, because the competition is there. Note all the crossovers coming in too (Freestyle, etc.). It won't be easy but pricing will make or break it.

John

rsholland

Well, I don't think it will be a homerun if it's sized as predicted, no matter how it's priced. Sounds more like a single at best.

Bob

rsholland

This just in:

Erroneous Report in Automotive News

TO: All Subaru Dealers
FROM: Nobuo Obara
DEPARTMENT: SOA Corp Communications
DATE: 8/31/2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You may have read in this week's issue of Automotive News a story regarding FHI's plans for a minivan in the US market for 2007-2008. This report from an unofficial and unidentified source was in error and we are working to correct it.

FHI had planned a minivan for the Japanese market, as part of the original FDR-1 business plan, which has since been reviewed and changed.

Subaru product planning strives to be responsive to current market conditions and Subaru of America currently has no plans to sell a minivan in the US.

I wanted to clear up any misunderstanding or rumors regarding this reporter's incorrect speculation.

Should you have any questions, you can contact the corporate communications department directly.

Bob

ateixeira

She's been pushing for a sedan, we'll see. She also wants an automatic for her heavy-traffic commute.

We'd probably pick a Subaru 2.5i Limited automatic, to be honest. 175hp is fine and mileage/range is great.

Her best friend has an Avalon so for some strange reason she has craved one as well. Honestly I think if she test drove one she'd drop it from her list, as she likes sporty, not soft.

I'm not in favor of either, to be honest. Waste of money and a step down in terms of space from her wagon.

So I have alternate strategy - get her a new Forester (probably LL Bean) and then later on I'd trade my Forester for a van of some sort, hopefully the Subie would be ready by then. She refuses a van as her primary car, but we could use the space once in a while.

Another idea - sell her '02 Legacy and get a used sedan of some sort, perhaps another Legacy ('03 SE or GT). We'd try to do that without spending any money, though.

In a perfect world, if we had the budget, I'd buy her a Tribeca right now, then get a newer Forester for myself, and a new MX-5 to replace the Miata. Basically upgrade each car in the current fleet, which I'm quite happy with.

-juice

ateixeira

Booo!

-juice

once_for_all

http://www.japanesecarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050823.006/page/4/lang/eng/mazda/1.html

Mazda5's euro diesel with 6 speed MT.

Yowsa.

John

ateixeira

I really like that, very sharp looking car.

My wife saw it and hated it, though.

I think the Impreza-based people mover could end up looking like that. It's based on the smallish Mazda3.

I would hope that anything based on the Legacy would be bigger.

-juice

once_for_all

version seems way out, if at all.

I can't get no, satisfaction, no no no.

John

jeffmc

So much for the topic of this thread.

Reuters: "For the home Japanese market ... Takenaka said the company would introduce a van-type fourth minivehicle this year."

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=motoringSummary&storyID=20- 06-01-13T105825Z_01_NOA339412_RTRUKOC_0_AUTOS-SUBARU-SALES.xml

jeffmc

First automaker to launch a hybrid AWD minivan is... Toyota, not Subaru. Wonder if they'd consider selling a rebadged Subaru version?
http://www.toyota.com/about/environment/technology/minivan.html

Wonder when we'll get more details about the "van-type fourth minivehicle" mentioned in the previous post? Will it be a variation on Subaru's Pleo & R2 replacement, the new Stella kei car?

rsholland

Here ya go... The Estima has electric 4WD!

http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/1124

Bob

jeffmc

Thanks, Bob. Pretty sweet stuff.

bblacha

2008 Subaru Minivan

once_for_all

I hope so...2008 is just around the corner though.

Maybe it will come in with a diesel boxer engine.

John

ateixeira

Hope so, but please, price it for us mere mortals. Below the Tribeca, for sure.

-juice

robr2

Hope so, but please, price it for us mere mortals. Below the Tribeca, for sure.

Mere mortal my eye - sell the Miata!!

Been watching any games??

ateixeira

I may have to, but I don't want to!

Remember, I got the Miata used, just $7800. The Forester was $19k, and our Legacy was under $18k.

We have two mortgages right now. If the minivan is $30k, it's off our list for sure. I'm hoping for Mazda5 levels of pricing, with $1500 extra allowance for the AWD.

-juice

once_for_all

Juice,

That would be sweet. Even the MPV is cheap right now, the market for expensive mini-vans is next to nothing right now.

I wonder where the CX-9 is going to go? Way too expensive for mere mortals.

John

rsholland

I'm not sure, but I think that's an old report, from last September. So I wouldn't put a lot of faith in it. I "hope" it's true though...

Rumor has it the '08 Tribeca will make people happy, so says someone over at nabisco who has inside info (but won't spill it ) Maybe it get's a streched wheelbase with more 3rd-row seating room, since that seems to be a universal complaint? Maybe that's how the rumor got started?

Bob

ateixeira

I bet they toned down the styling and dropped the price.

-juice