Gas vs Diesel@2.00 a gallon

wwhite2

At 2 dollars a gallon the diesel engine has lost
it's mpg advantage. Will the price stay this high ?

cdean

definitely not an economic advantage. I questioned the economic advantages back when diesel was the same price as gas. I laugh now at the folks who justified buying diesel because it wasn't as volatile to price changes as gas. Ha!

My dad bought a new work truck last year, a '99 Chevy 3500HD with 454. he only gets about 2 mpg worse than the same Ford or Chevy with a diesel. the truck weighs about 14,000, unloaded. he gets 10 mpg on long trips, 8 on short trips (10-20 miles) around S. Texas, gas (87 octane) is costing about 1.18, diesel is around 1.35 to 1.40.

maybe prices will go down, but for now, if you want a diesel truck, you will be paying for it up front AND down the road (maint. and fuel.)

spockcat

Here in CT, the least expensive gas is 140.9 while diesel is 209.9. At nearly 50% more gallon, diesel owners must be real pissed off!

markcord

Aren't most duallies rated at around 11,000 lbs.
GROSS Vehicle Weight Rating?

tracyo

I think people who live in CT would be pissed off!
In AL least expensive gas is $1.189 while diesel is $1.389

cdean

Markcord

the truck is Chevrolet 3500 HD. its rated over 14,000, and you can option the same badge up to 19,500.

Ford has same thing. F450 is 14,000+ and F550 is 19,500.

markcord

Isn't that technically a medium duty though?

cdean

No. Medium duty's are on the bigger chassis's, like School buses, large lumber trucks, delivery trucks. those are the F650 and F750. I can't remember what GM's badge for that truck is, C4000, or something like that. Those trucks you can get Cat's, Cummins, Detroit Diesels, etc.

the medium duty GVW starts around 24,000.

the F450/550 and GM 3500HD are the same trucks as the one ton, but much heavier frames, larger rear ends, and 22.5 inch rims. in fact the tires were the weakest link on the Fords, they just recently went to the 22.5 inch rims. GM has used them for 7 years now. other companies running the Fords had lots of tire trouble because no 16 tires are rated for the loads these trucks can hold. 22.5 rimmed tires can, but they are very expensive tires.

now we're officially off subject.

any diesel justificators out there....

Brutus

Don't you have to have a diesel to move those bigger tires? Well, I tried to tie it in. I thought the F-450 and F-550 had 19" rims. Did they go even bigger?

The F-650 and F-750 come standard with the Cummins. I believe there is a CAT option for both and a PSD option for the F-650 (but not the F-750). I thought I had read somewhere that the Cummins was bigger than the standard one in the Dodge, but the stuff I have read lately says it is the 5.9L Cummins. Is it the same engine as in the Dodge pickup and, if so, does it have the same torque or different?

wwhite2

Latest price check for here in Massachusetts 2.27 per gallon for diesel ......1.35 for regular unleaded . as a side note heating oil is pushing 1.90 ..... I am happy I havent gone with a diesel pickup

cdean

Brutus! you're right, they are 19.5. I don't know where i got 22 from...

laramieslt

you people are paying 1.90 for heating oil? I rescently read that the price of heating oil and diesel was going up and that President Bill appropriated funds to relieve the high costs of heating oil on the east coast and up here in Alaska but up here it is still about 1.20 a gallon for heating oil and about 1.35 for automotive diesel (outrageous considering that I live 1/2 mile from a refinery).
Anyway I still love my diesel and I laugh at everyone I know that owns a gasser and they brag about putting on their dual exhaust and special air filters to get a whopping 10 miles to the gallon when I get 18 miles to the gallon on #1 fuel and 25 on #2 fuel. The difference in real terms I fill up for a 700 mile trip and it costs me $60 and it costs them 90.

modvptnl

That's cool, the gas engine owners are laughing too at the $4000 more them diesel owners paid for their trucks and the $40 more it costs per oil change and the extra fuel filter changes and......

wwhite2

The Boston Herald today 2/8 listed the average price for home heating oil as 2.04 per gallon diesel down the street from me (texaco) is 229.9 this is out of control

tracyo

#2 Diesel still 1.389 here in Al. and considering I average 20-21 mpg and have all the pulling power anyone could need, with out any expensive modifications the gassers need ,I love my diesel. Who is paying $40 MORE for a oil change? I change 15 quarts and a filter in my psd for $29.

Brutus

Just curious who's making a new gasser that only gets 10mpg on a 700 mpg hwy trip? My truck has to be about the lowest mpg combo of anything being produced the past couple of years (99 F-350 dually 4x4 V-10 with 4.30 axle ratio) and I get close to 12 hwy. The single rear wheel V-10 Superduty trucks with 3.73 axle ratio are posting 14+.

On a 700 mile trip, the difference in gas costs for a vehicle getting 18 and one getting 14 is about $5 if the diesel fuel cost $.20 more per gallon. The break even point for that trip would be if diesel costs $.35 more per gallon. If the difference is more than that, the diesel will actually cost you more in fuel cost for the trip.

Using my truck with the low 4.30 axle ratio and only 12mpg hwy, the difference is $15 for the trip assuming diesel is $.20 more per gallon. To be fair, the diesel comparison should be a dually 4x4 with the 4.10 axle ratio. I'm not sure what the Superduties with that combo are getting. My folks have a 97 F-350 dually 4x2 with the 4.10 and he gets 16 mpg empty on the hwy. That puts us back at the 4mpg difference and $5 for the trip. But my guess is that the Superduty might do a little better than the 97.

I'm not knocking diesels. They still have the torque advantage. I seriously considered one when I bought. I basically opted for the gas out of preference. I'll have to look at what's out there next time when I'm ready to buy and figure out which way to go again. The new diesels are equaling the hp of the gas engines. The new gas engines are increasing torque, increasing mpg and increasing engine life.

A few years down the road, the market will look much different than when I bought this truck in 1998. Of course, it will look vastly different if we get a President Gore since he has promised a crusade to eliminate the internal combustion engine. Give me an alternative with the torque and hp to haul my RV the same distances at the same speeds in the same comfort and I'm game.

cdean

Tracyo
Today's Ford v10, Chevy 454, and Dodge v10 have all the pulling power anyone needs without modifications.

modvptnl

Based on synthetics 14 quarts vs. 6 quarts is about $32 difference. plus $5 more a filter is... OK only $37 more an oil change. Unless you use regular oil I guess it's only about $13 a change diff. How much are the fuel filters/water separators that have to be changed so often. Diesels have an advantage pulling MAX weight all the time in altitude. That's it period. They are noiser,slower accelerating,smellier, cost more to purchase and now the advantage of fuel economy is being eaten by rising diesel costs. Oh I did forget the diesel will last 10 million miles I know I want to keep the same truck that long.

modvptnl

We all know Gale Banks is going broke duing modifications on them diesels that don't need any. LOL.....

Rocles

Refinery Capital of the East COast is the Philadelphia Area. Philly, Marcus Hook, Delaware City, Claymont, etc....Have tankers waiting to unload here in the Delaware river. News around town is that teh refineries are "taking their time" on the process from crude to the many products they kick out.
Star Enterprises here in Delaware had excess for more than two years. Gee, and the price is going up?? Hmmmm....Collusion anyone?? Of course.

I still remember the "crisis". I still remember the Phila.Inquier picture of FOUR tankers sitting in the river waiting to unload their fuel.
The oil man hates low prices.......Price for gas here is still @1.25 for 87 but it is creeping higher.

modvptnl

I meant "doing" modifications.

epoe

Has anyone mentioned that the reliablity of the diesel, especially after 100k? If you're a gasser and 'laugh' at the diesel prices, get ready to join the subsidy as they'll be reflected in the cost of goods for transportation.. let's hope that diesel prices fall back so we can all benefit.

tracyo

I was not one of the ones laughing at gas motors.
I also have a 95 f150 with a 302 v8 I bought new and it is a great truck. It just simply would not meet my need in pulling my t/t. I could have got by with a big gas motor on my new superduty and considered them, I think the v10 is a fine choice. I just have always loved diesels and never owned one. I am not really concerned about the extra cost of maintaining it, I was well aware of that before I bought it. I certainly did not choose the diesel because I thought it was the most economical choice. I just wanted it! If I was cocerned about how much diesel was compared to gas I would just drive my f150 or my wifes car and leave my beast in the garage til diesel goes back down. But I am not that concerned about it, sure I hope the prices fall.

modvptnl

I was really talking about post #11 and the inference that diesel owners don't try to make their rigs more powerful and how he laughs when it's time to fill up etc. I've always said if it comes down to the two motors drive 'em both. Some people love everything about the diesel "feel", some people can't stand them. (me) I just don't think you can justify one over the other on an economical sense.

cdean

great point, TracyO. sometimes you need the diesel, regardless of cost. no doubt, if you want the best towing package possible, diesel is the way to go. i just shake my head at all the soccer moms, and business men who buy the big diesels and never do anything but drive to work and school, and defend their choice as the 'only' choice. i never have been able to defend diesels for light duty stuff, especially since all gas motors are getting more horsepower, almost as much torque, only 1-2 mpg less, and 250K-300 mile life expectancies.

Brutus

The station up the street here in Anchorage is advertising diesel at $.03 more per gallon than 87 octane, so it doesn't appear the high diesel cost have impacted us. FYI, the least expensive 87 octane I've seen in town right now is $1.28.

tracyo

Here gas prices are catching up but diesel went up some also, 87 octane 1.329 - diesel 1.449

pbb98

I heard on the news a couple of days ago that gas prices were expected to go as high as $1.80 or so by summer. They're up to $1.45 to $1.50 here.

andy_jordan

many of us Canadians are driving across the border for cheaper gas prices!!!!! We are paying around 76c (Canadian) per litre (or liter), the US prices equate to 52c (Canadian) per litre even with the exchange rate. I have seen prices at over 80c in some of the more remote areas.

meredith

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