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Audi A4 vs Acura TL vs Volvo S60 vs VW Passat
I've pretty much narrowed by purchase down to these four cars. I'm in the market for a mid-sized near luxury vehicle.
I have an Audi A4 1.8T now, and very much like it! However, it hasn't proven as reliable at 75k as I might have hoped. That's opened up the floodgates to me, and am looking at VW, Acura and Volvo (am I missing anything?). If going with Audi, I'd get the 2.0T Quattro.
I'm hoping to keep the price to about $32k; what's mandatory for me is a navigation system, 5 or 6 speed manual transmission, CD player. I'd like AWD, but living in the mid-Atlantic doesn't make that mandatory.
I am quite concerned about fuel consumption, but these sedans really all have about the same mileage -- and all recommend premium fuel. I'd really be interested in the new Passat if it were available as a diesel, but I'm told it's not :-(
Finally, I enjoyed Audi's free maintenance for 4 years -- and it appears that Audi stands alone in offering this perk?
Any and all comments are welcome!
Thanks,
I have an Audi A4 1.8T now, and very much like it! However, it hasn't proven as reliable at 75k as I might have hoped. That's opened up the floodgates to me, and am looking at VW, Acura and Volvo (am I missing anything?). If going with Audi, I'd get the 2.0T Quattro.
I'm hoping to keep the price to about $32k; what's mandatory for me is a navigation system, 5 or 6 speed manual transmission, CD player. I'd like AWD, but living in the mid-Atlantic doesn't make that mandatory.
I am quite concerned about fuel consumption, but these sedans really all have about the same mileage -- and all recommend premium fuel. I'd really be interested in the new Passat if it were available as a diesel, but I'm told it's not :-(
Finally, I enjoyed Audi's free maintenance for 4 years -- and it appears that Audi stands alone in offering this perk?
Any and all comments are welcome!
Thanks,
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Here are the models and my opinions:
1. Acura TL: absolutelly the best car in this group, in my opinion. Tremendous power and great handling, great ergonomics and luxury. Really perfect all around except for one thing: big turning circle. It's hard to park this car because of this. The navigation system in the TL is the onle one in this group that is trully usable and great. Plus don't forget voice control and presence of Bluetooth Hands Free Link system. The stereo is also by far the best in the group.
2. Audi A4 2.0T. Absolute piece of junk and poor value compared to the other cars in this group. I don't know why Audi thought it was Ok to screw with the great car like A4 1.8T to turn it into this crap. We actually turned around after 3 minutes into the test drive and said this is not a car for us. The engine was loud, slow and unrefined. The materials inside were poor quality (worse than in the Passat). The NAVI was junk and in a bad spot. And the price was ludicrous!
3. 2005 Volvo S60 2.5T with AWD is a great car and a decent value now that there are about $5,000 worth of incentives on it. It makes the price only about $2,000 more than the TL; without AWD it's probably comparable in price. I certainly wouldn't pay more for S60 than for TL; in fact I would buy TL if it were $2,000 more. S60 2.5T is quite underpowered and it's also the worst handling car of this group. It does have couple luxury features that TL doesn't have, but they're not important to me. There was absolutelly no 2005 models that could be found with NAVI anymore, which was one of the reasons we didn't get this car. The fact that it was $5,000 more than the Passat GLX 4Motion was the other reason. This car is noticeably smaller than the TL, but comparable to the A4 and Passat in size.
4. 2005 Passat GLX 4Motion is a great car with a ton of luxury features that can typically be found in cars $10,000 more expensive. It handles great, is quite comfortable, offers nice materials and ergonomics inside. We paid $28,750 for this car, which is a great deal. But it is really not comparable to the TL. The TL beats Passat in pretty much every category, especially in engine power and space. TL is also a lot more luxurious and will be a LOT more reliable.
If I were to rank these cars, I'd put the TL in first place, the S60 in the second, but with a recognition that there is a LARGE gap between the 1st and the 2nd place. The Passat would be in 3rd place and A4 in the 4th; and there'd be a LARGE gap between the 3rd and the 4th place.
Again, I don't know anything about 2006 Passat except that it's supposed to be a lot bigger. This would actually be a big negative for my mother, so we didn't even consider it.
As for the others, I've driven the Acura TL and the A4. The B7 platform A4 has essentially the same interior as the B6 (my current ride) and the interior is excellent and is usually considered a "best in class". As for the engine being rough at idle, that's true but the engine is great when cruising at 80 mph (and very good mpg as well). And it's reasonably quick to boot. I can also verify that the steering, brakes and handling are all improved on the new A4.
I drove a manually equipped TL on some damp roads and pushed the car in the curves. The TL had what I felt to be excessive oversteer and even exhibited some wheel hop (I've read that the auto-equipped TLs are better in this respect). The A4 "feels" much more stable in similar situations. For me the difference in handling pretty much sealed the deal and I ordered another A4 (my third). But my priorities may very well be different from yours (I live in NE Ohio and appreciate AWD).
Another point for me is that I don't keep cars beyond the warranty period. While my present '02 A4 Avant has been virtually perfect and a model of stellar behavior I might have second thoughts if I was going to have and extended automotive relationship.
In any case, the TL is an excellent vehicle and would hardly qualify as a bad choice for most of us.
Byron
BTW, I just returned from a vacation in Germany where I rented a diesel Mercedes Vaneo, a mid-sized minivan. It drove quite nicely! Pick-up was so-so, and that was a frustration for me, but once you get up to 150 kpm on the autobahn, you're really having fun!
You mean understeer?
I felt that the power in the S60 was adequate which actually surprised me a bit as I was expecting worse. Here's my take, the S60 is the New England Patriots; refined, reliable smooth but nothing flashy while the TL is the Indianapolis Colts; flashy, reliable and more exciting to drive. OK, maybe not the best analogy but hopefully you get my point.
One final thought. The Acura dealer actually mentioned to us that if we waited another month or so that we could get the '06 TL for a lower monthly payment (not by too much) than the '05; his reasoning was the residual value of the new model would be greater than the current. Does this sound right? I'm in now rush so I could order an '06 and take delivery whenever it comes in.
Yes, that makes sense. The higher residual of the '06 may outweigh the lower cap cost of the '05.. Even if all are equal, the '06 is bound to be a better car.
Either way, we drove today and opted for the Audi A4 quattro. What a fun car to drive. Picked up an '05 with tiptronic, premium package and heated leather seats. I drove a lot of cars over the ast two weeks and the Audi is truely a drivers car. The interior was also roomier than expected. Ididn't notice any turbo lag either. If you're looking for a car in this class make sure you drive all the cars. Don't eliminate one because of what it sayd on paper. I almost did and thus would have never driven the Audi.
Poor inside materials?....yeah right. Audi has been the benchmark for quality interiors for the better part of the past decade. Many other car manufactures have used Audi as their traget for their interiors. Quattro has been out for 25 years and it's the best AWD system out there for a car.
The nav in a bad spot? Where do you want it? It's in a perfect spot smack in the middle of the console. It's easy to use and much better than any IDrive from BMW. The driving directions also come up on the center dash as well and it's pretty easy to follow.
Resale is also very good on the Quattros.
About noise, the new FSI techology does create a bit of extra noise due to the way the fuel is injected into the combustion chamber rather than the intake. The 05.5's were a mid year replacement, and from my driving experience, the new 06's have been tweaked and are quieter and the exhast sounds sweeter as well. The new 2.0 has 100hp per liter and more torque than hp. Mated with the 6 speed manual, the 2.0 is one sweet engine and it's been praised by just about every car magazine out there.
BMW, Mercedes, and Audi are all going to be more expensive than any Japanese, Vovlo (Ford), or VW. But Audi is a good value when you compare them to their main German rivals, and are thousands less than what BMW and MB charges for similarly equipped cars.
I found that Audi A4 statement comical. No car in this class is junk. As I mentioned earlier I chose the A4 because it had a sportier feel that the TL or S60. The TL snd S60 are obviously larger cars with more rate HP but the Audi just seemed more complete to me. You cannot go worng with any of these and it will come down to persoanl preference. Also, Audi still offers scheduled maintenance and free oil changes, a nice perk. Acura and Volvo have discontinued these programs.
I'm picking the A4 up tomorrow and will provide some initial impression details after the weekend.
That 6 cyl engine is a great engine. The 5MT had plenty of torque throughout the RPM band - it was quiet, powerful and forgiving. The seats and interior materials were comfortable, well-designed and well-put together. And since my Passat handled very well, I am sure the smaller, more sporty A4 would, too. I would suggest anyone looking at an AWD BMW 3-series also check out Audi. I don't believe Audi has a RWD platform (am I right?); otherwise, I'd recommend it to all who are considering a 3-series.
QUESTION TO AUDI A4 OWNERS: in my 4 yrs of Passat-driving, I only came up with 2 complaints, both w/r/t the steering wheel controls. On your wheels, are the radio controls on the right? Also, do the tuning buttons act as a general scan feature or scroll your presets? Mine were on the right side and scanned the dial rather than just presets. My only complaints in 4 years.
Complaints?
Occasional buzz/rattle from the rear (door? seat? can't tell) and bucking at 42 mph when the auto trans seems to be deciding between 4th and 5th gear.
Have had this in both of my VW's. It most likely is the rear door lock. It tends to buzz or rattle. It sounds like plastic against plastic.
Have had this in both of my VW's. It most likely is the rear door lock. It tends to buzz or rattle. It sounds like plastic against plastic.
Any solution? Keep locked, unlocked? Duct tape?
Back to your question......their was no fix for the lock rattle. I did notice that the noise disappeared when the lock was in the open (up) position. But, since we have automatic door locks that lock the doors when you reach a certain speed (17mph I think), I had them reprogram the locks not to lock automatically. This did work. BTW: This was done on my Jetta. My Passat is not too bad so i just don't bother with getting it looked at.
This problem
Audi is not always more expensive than VW or Volvo or anything Japanese? What are you talking about? There are plenty of Japanese cars more expensive than A4s and A6s (Acura RL is very close in price to the A6 for instance). There are plenty of VW's more expensive than A3's or A4s, think Toureg and Phaeton, and the Passat and A4s overlap at certain price points.
I agree calling the A4 junk is ridiculous, calling any of these cars junk is ridiculous. They all are resonably well engineered and built cars. Overall I may find Audi best, followed by Volvo, but you can make an argument for Acura as well. Passat is in a different market segment, but I think it is tops of the family sedans and like it over Accord, Camry, Altima, and others.
Passat or Ford = Volvo, are patently ridiculous. I drove a Passat 2.0 and an A4 2.0 today. These cars are nothing alike. The Passat interior is pleasant but it has a broad dash and somewhat bland design of a family car. It is though a very nice family car and the engine is smooth and responsive. The transmission is also very smooth. The brakes seemed poor. The Audi interior is far superior in that the dash design, plastics, leather, and seat design are all much more high quality than the VW. The Audi interior has that spartan lux and sporty look/feel that Audi has had at least since the Audi 100 that I drove 23 years ago. But the real difference is in the acceleration and shifting. The CVT is flawless and the A4 is much quicker than the Passat at most speeds and appears to have much more low end torque. I have a Saab turbo and until this A4, I have not seen anything beat the Saab 2.0 turbo. The A4 was louder than the Passat, which bothered me.
I also drove an S40, a great little car with excellent acceleration very close to the new A4 turbo. But the ride is poor and its roof line makes vision diffiicult for me (6-3). I have driven the TSX and the TL. I love the TSX as it is crisp, quick and handles lightly. You do have to rev it (like most VTEC engines). The TL is simply too luxury oriented for me. I really don't think of it as a sporty car. It is fast but does not feel nimble at all. It feels similar to the S60 I have ridden in but not driven.
BTW, the Audi gets 24/32 and the Passat gets 22/31. Is that difference just from weight?
Volvos are fun cars. If I was in the market for a compact car, it would've easily been the S40 T5. I'm in the mid-sized market, and if the S60 came with a 6 MT, I would've considered it.
I'm one of those who've said the Passat interior is similar to Audi, and I base that on personal experience, and stand by that comment with one qualification: I base my view on personal experience with a 2001.5 Passat and a 2002 Audi A6. The seats are the same - stitching, stuffing, etc. The gauges and center-stack controls are the same. I could believe that the A4 is firmer riding than the Passat, but do not believe the A6 is firmer. Audi is clearly sportier, but the Passat interior is very well-done and Audi-like.
You said "The even bigger difference between the A4 2.0 and the Passat 2.0 was the handling"
Of course the A4 handles better! The Jetta with a sport package probably handles better, too, since the Passat is bigger. The Passat handles more like the A6 b/c it's mroe similar in size to the A6. At least back in '01.5, what Passat did was take a car body similar to the A6, and put in an A4 engine (either the smaller one or the v6 one which was smaller than the v6 in the A6). Because of the larger size, the Passat is less sporty than the A4. Because of the smaller engine, the Passat is less sporty than the A6. Still kicks the crap out of the competition!!!!
In my mind, it's unfare to compare the A4 and BMW3 series with "competitors" such as the G35, TL and the cars mentioned in this forum. Don't get me wrong, I'm the 1st person to say that you have to compare what you might buy. If it's an apples to oranges comparison, then you need to decide whether you want an apple or an orange. Anyway, all I'm saying is I understand the comparisions b/c of price, but I think that if you're talking about handling and sportiness (and not $$$) the TL, G35, S60, etc should be compared to the A6 and 5-series. Of course, the 5-series might handle better than the G35 and TL, but that's still what the comparison should be.
Regarding a prior comment that the Passsat handles like a TL, I could agree. I think the TL is a stiffer ride (I have the 6MT w/ summer tires), but I also think I'm at my comfort-limit with the TL. I thought the Passat handled well, as did the S40 (though that is based on a short test-drive in which my main realization was that a compact car was too small for me).
Comparos should be:
A4, 3 series, S40 T5, Mazaspeed 6, IS, C230, TSX, 9-3
5 series, E series, A6, M45, S60, TL, 9-5, GS300,
Passat, Mazda 6, Altima SER, Maxima,
I have no clue what to do with the G35 as that round shift plate is too ugly for anything.
I think it should be broken up as follows:
530 & below (525?); TL; G35; S60; 9-5
530 & above (545?); A6; M; GS300; RL; S60T5(?)
I'm not knowledgable with Saab or Mercedes
in case you want to know
06 A4 2.0 quattro
auto, premium, technology 2, sunroof pkg,cold weather, ocean blue pearl/plat leath
1080- due at lease inception
435- a month
Guess I'll see you all in about 23 months when its time for another vehicle
1. BMW 330i
2. Lexus IS350
3. Infiniti G35
4. Acura TL
5. Audi A4 3.2 Quattro
6. Cadillac CTS
7. Volvo S60R AWD
8. Saab 9-3 Aero
That's quite an exageration. VW may have a bad reputation based on now-defunct models, but they've been ave or above ave in recent years, according to consumer reports, that focuses on reliability as opposed to sportiness. From at least 2001 through 2005, the VW Passat was a CR recommended pick for its class. One of the significant factors is reliability.
B.T.W. - I currently own 3 VWs (1997 Jetta, 2003 Wolfsburg Jetta, 2003 Passat GLS)
We can only hope...
Oh, and so far the car has been great.
Byron
I didn't think the TL was as tight or as solid-feeling as I had come to expect after owning my previous Audi. I had been led to believe the Japanese luxury brands were comparable to the Germans; I've since reconsidered.
They're both good cars -- I just think the Audi is a much better car to drive.
Actually, I think that's the difference between Audi's CVT and the Passat's Tiptronic.