Economy Sedans (~$16k-$20k)

occupant1

That ifcar site is sweet. Tells me everything I need to know. Now of course, my wife and I cannot afford new, but we are looking at 8k-10k small sedans as well as the mid-size sedans, and we can buy a newer, lower mileage small car for the same money.

I'm surprised that the Cobalt scored so low. I feel the Cobalt is up there with the Focus and 3, and certainly should be better than the Aveo and Aerio. I will admit I have never driven an Aerio, though.

I do like seeing the Focus up so high, along with the Versa winning the comparison. I think my wife would be happy with either, but since the Focus is the only one available used now, that may just be the car to get. I located a gray 2006 SE sedan with 20K on it for $9K. I don't think we'll be able to do better than that one.

steve333

Never go by what a site says, drive the cars yourself. The Cobalt is way better than the Aveo. I rented an Aveo for 2 days and it is underpowered and steering is skittish, although it handled bumps pretty well.
If I went by reviews I'd be driving a Corolla and would be absolutely miserable.

thegraduate

To each his own. The Cobalt's dismal interior quality put me off bad enough I wouldn't even test drive one. The Corolla at least was not offensive until I cranked the thing.

I think the Mazda 3 and the Civic really have this segment locked up at the moment. The 3 is a hoot, with good economy. The Civic is a little less fun, with great economy. Both have interiors that, while not Lexus-level, are at least worthy of their price. The Cobalt's interior, IMO, felt like it belonged in a Kia...from ten years ago. Knobs and buttons were horrible. Turn the heater knob in a Civic then turn it in the Cobalt and you'll understand what I mean. To be fair, the Cobalt I sat in was at the end of 2005, and was a 2006 model. Maybe they revamped the interior for 2007?

sandman46

We have both and the interiors are quite nice for this price range. The ergonomics are correct in that everything seems to be in the right place...just where one would expect them to be. Our S model with the 2.3 engine is definitely a hoot to drive but it's thirstier than the 2.0 model and I personally think the seats in my Civic are a bit better. With my spine problems, the seat comfort will make or break a car buying sale for me. Both seats are acceptable, but I give the nod to the Civic.
I also felt the seat comfort was not bad in the '07 Corolla we rented in St. Louis, but what a boring ride. I suspect the '08 model will be a big improvement in every way over this current generation. It has to be...the competition is just that good!

The Sandman

backy

I think the Mazda 3 and the Civic really have this segment locked up at the moment.

Ah, but there are footsteps coming! Have you driven the Rabbit, Lancer, or Elantra yet? All very solid, nice-driving cars, and all available nicely equipped (ABS, at least 6 airbags, power package, AC, cruise, alloys) for $16k or less (real-world pricing, not MSRP). A Mazda3 or Civic similarly equipped will cost more, and although the Mazda3 handles very well, I don't know that you get a better car for the extra money.

And then there's the all-new Corolla due in less than a year--and it's already one of the top-selling small cars.

I agree on the Cobalt's interior--very low class IMO, and pretty much an unusable rear seat except for little ones.

lilengineerboy

The Rabbit is fun to drive and relatively affordable but I am worried about long term reliablity. Until that proves itself a little more, its not on my A list.
I am a little afraid of Mitsubishi because I feel like they lack direction in the US. I don't know how long they will be here.
The Elantra I think is a great overall package, its just as competent/bland as the CivRolla, and considerably cheaper.
I like the Focus ST as the budget sport compact right now, personally.

steve333

I have a '06 Cobalt and while the knobs dont bother me, I really dislike the aluminum trim on the dash.
Chevy upgraded the radio in the car to the one thats in the HHR and Impala, but they should also have imported over the same HVAC controls which are far superior to whats in the Cobalt.
I do agree about the Mazda 3. Hands down, best looker of the bunch inside and out. I actually wanted one but couldnt find a used 3 at all. So, to me the next best thing was the Cobalt so thats what i went for.

eldaino

Agreed backster, even being a honda fan, i realize that the rabbits interior out-nice's it by a bit.

I'm glad for the long awaited corolla design. I've seen pictures and it basically looks like a mini camry, but as long as the driving position is better, it should do ok...with dramatic styles like the 3 and civic, feature laden cars like the elantra, and simple but nicely appointed cars like the rabbit, the corolla needs to fill in that 'nice but bland and reliable' hole.

wr_guy

Don't give up hope on a new car just yet, especially if you are going to finance it.

I just bought a new Cobalt for my daughter with optional auto, ABS/Traction and side airbags for 11k plus tax and $200 for tags. Got interest free financing for 3yrs with 0 down. Payments are $350/month. A Civic or Mazda is $550 month with 0 down for a base with auto. I bet you'll pay $325 month for the used Focus.

Saved 1800 with the GM card. Get one now and they will backfill it with another $1,000 rebate.

I coming out of a VW Passat and I think the cobalt is a fine car if a little cramped in the back.

eldaino

did she get a bare bones model?

wr_guy

LS sedan with auto ABS traction and side airbags.
Does not have cruise or power locks/windows.
MSRP $15,385

I drove most of my life w/o those options anyway.

Nice car. I drove the Corolla @ $5k more and it was no better. It had power windows but was very underpowered and noisy. Liked the Chevy better frankly, even the interior.

steve333

Me too. I think the Corolla is a crapbox, just a reliable one.
I got a used LT Sedan for 11k

carfanatic007

Comon now. The Cobalt is rated a solid black circle by Consumer Reports, that equates to a "crapbox". It is barely better than the Cavalier it replaced. No wonder GM has become number two behind Toyota.

steve333

The Corolla is a crappy car to drive. Its a dated design with a lawn mower engine and awkward driving position. Sure it may be reliable, but its still a crap box. The worst driving compact car on the market.

pat

In your humble opinion, of course...

backy

I guess you've never driven a Forenza?

The sales success of the Corolla proves that a combination of reliability and excellent fuel economy is a winner in the small car market. And selling a bunch of them to fleets doesn't hurt sales numbers either.

Kirstie_H

A reporter would like to talk with a consumer who owns a four-cylinder Honda Civic, Honda Accord, Toyota Corolla, Toyota Camry, Nissan Altima or Nissan Sentra but had also shopped for a Prius or another hybrid before deciding on their current purchase. Please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than May 3, 2007 with your daytime contact information and what car you own.

wr_guy

Okay, if you are willing to pay $5k more for a CR circle so be it. I drive a car not a circle.

I've had great success with my last 2 GM cars so it's not important to me.

I happen to think the Civic is better than the Cobalt and the Cobalt is better than the Toyota. But the Chevy is 30-40% cheaper and so I bought it.

markb3

You should have leased this vehicle!........In 3 years it's going to be another piece of General Motors "Carbage" with No Value at all.

backy

Assuming it's generally understood that the Cobalt will have little value after 3 years, wouldn't that make lease payments a bad deal (unless GM offers a heavily subsidized lease on the Cobalt)? If someone can get a huge discount on a car up front and drive it several years, they generally will make out better financially than buying a higher-priced car that has a lower depreciation rate, considering the time value of money etc. etc.

eldaino

true, unless they decide to trade in the car that held its value better, and assuming they WANT or are at least accepting of having a car payment, they will come out better depending on the vehicle they choose. If they are doing this with a car that didn't really hold its value, well, lets hope they have a downpayment.

wr_guy

You are right, if you trade it in.

I keep my cars for 10 yrs and 150k miles.

walterquint

The Cobalt is a great deal, GM really unloads them. You can land one for $13k with a/c. Cobalt has the Ecotec four, which is, I believe, the best standard-issue small car engine available.

The best small car available is the Mazda3. The interior is just amazing. But it's pricey.

backy

The best small-car engine available? In this class, how about the Civic's 1.8L, 140 hp, 30/40 mpg engine? and the 2.0L and 2.3L engines in the Mazda3 are no slouches either.

glideslopes

The Ecotec is a much better product for GM standards. However, it is not in the same class as the Honda 1.8 or 2.0, and the Mazda 2.3. If you don't agree, I suggest you "actually" do some research.

If you want an average inexpensive small car the Cobalt is ok. It does however rate below average in reliability.

eldaino

trust me backy does his research!

this post is a little puzzling tho,

The Ecotec is a much better product for GM standards

hmmm...ok, this insinuates that for gm, this engine is pretty good, but when stacked up to its japanese competitors, (i.e. honda, mazda) its lacking; and i totally agree with that.

but then....

it is not in the same class as the Honda 1.8 or 2.0, and the Mazda 2.3. If you don't agree, I suggest you "actually" do some research.

now this sounds like you are saying its 'above' the mazda and honda engines. Sorry, it simply isn't.

the honda, while not the quietest engine, but thats due to cabin isolation, is ultra smooth, sounds good, has the best hp to displacement ratio in its segment (the caliber has a 1.8 with 142 hp i belive but it is no where near the r18 in terms of smoothness, or fuel economy.) and it gets tremendous fuel economy. The 2.0 in the mazda is good too, and the 2.3 (while not nearly as fuel efficient) is very smooth and quite powerful.

sandman46

This is an amazing engine with smooth power up the power band, really love driving it. I agree about the 2.3 mazda engine. Really moves one through the gears seamlessly but it's a bit thirsty. Seems like we're always at the gas pump. But a true blast to drive.
Taking the Civic on a 400 mile trip tomorrow of all highway driving and I'm hoping that this will improve the mpg's a bit. Cars got 7500 miles and hasn't been on an extended drive like that since we bought it last year. Hoping a constant 65 mph will help the fuel economy a bit.

The Sandman

thegraduate

The 1.8L is pretty great, although I'm so spoiled by my Accord's 2.4 liter's smoothness and richness of torque, so I don't think I could go back down to a Civic and be truly happy.

My dad has the 2007 Civic EX Auto, and drives it moderately hard (every single redlight seemingly goes to 4,000 RPM until he gets to 3rd gear). Not much coasting to red lights either. He still averages around 30 MPG (although his commute entails some highway driving (about 6 miles out of 16).

In contrast, his Accord gave him 23 MPG or so with the same driving style. Needless to say, the parents are LOVING their Civic, as it has had ZERO problems after 13,000 miles.

iluvmysephia1

2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS mpg numbers so far. The car has about 2,650 miles on it.

Here they are: around 23 mpg in town and 31 mpg on the highway. I'd have to say I'm really happy with the mpg numbers so far.

My Lancer GTS has the CVT automatic with paddle shifters for playing with. Works well and accelerates fine for my driving style.

thegraduate

Hmm... I guess the fact that the Lancer is heavy hurts it in economy. I see better numbers in my midsize.

The car does look REALLY good, and paddle shifters would be a hoot. I'd be interested in comparing interior plastics to its competitors.

What color did ya get? I haven't seen one I didn't like to look at. Thanks for filling us in!

iluvmysephia1

and am pleased with it. It was my top choice from early research so I'm more than pleased that I got one with it. I have wanted a particular color before and not been able to get it so I'm happy.

Well, as far as the interior on my Lancer I think it looks fit together well and it's black with some grey mixed in a tad. It has an attractive dash and I love the interactive dash computer information screen that keeps giving mileage, outside temperature and engine temperature, etc. I would call the Lancer's interior "sporty" as well as it's exterior.

Our Lancer GTS has the Sun and Sound package so we have the 650-watt Rockford Fosgate stereo and sunroof. Both are great to have. We love to open the sunroof to see the Arizona stars above.

sandman46

Finally hit this after our small road trip on Sunday. The OLM shows 70% oil life left and with having the 1st oil change done at about 5050 miles at about 7 months of ownership, is it safe to wait until the % gets down to about 20% until the next change? Also, is there a chance that my mileage figures will go up a small bit since we got the engine up to speed for the most prolonged period of our ownership?
Love the car and it held it's own very well this past Sunday.

The Sandman

thegraduate

Go with the manual, which says to take it in at 15%.

I'd trust a Honda engineer (the guys responsible for writing the manual, I'd guess) before I'd trust a service tech at a dealership (the service tech at my dad's dealership in Oklahoma told him to come in at 60%, and was dumbfounded when he asked the guy why they wanted more than two oil changes to be done for every one the manual/OLM recommends. He couldn't give a straight answer. My dealer in Birmingham says to go by the monitor, or 7,500 miles. I just go by the monitor, and it sends me in about every 7,000 miles anyway.

The only time I'd go earlier would be if my car hadn't been serviced in 12 months. I'd go every 12 months, or at 15% oil life.

eldaino

agree with gradutate sand. The maintance minder goes by driving conditions and not so much by miles, so everyones first oil change is at a slightly different interval.

I accidently let it go down to 5% one time, but i usually took her in at 15% or 20% just to be on the safe side.

lightfootfl

Re Eldaino, Graduate, and Sandman
What is the thing you are using to determine %'s ???
I have never heard of anything like this before, but it sounds like something handy to have. I have been changing oil, filters, etc by the mileages/time interval.. but dunno about % of oil life. Please inform me about this. Thanks, van

eldaino

its a feature that was introduced on the 06+ civic; under the tach where the temperature is displayed it should tell you how much oil life you have left; you can cycle to display this or the temp, and various trips.

Once you start getting close you your interval it will flash every time you turn on your car; when you get as close as 15% or 20% it should constantly be there to remind you what to do.

Grad and sand; correct me on this if i've posted something a little wrong; i haven't driven in a civic since october of last year!

thegraduate

15% is when it reminds you every time, everything else is correct!

sharkman1

Why are you talking about civics ? This is cobalt country!!

pat

Take a look at the nine vehicles listed at the top. This discussion appears on all nine boards. Actually, it's about any vehicle in this class, but nine is the most that we can list.

backy

I pretty much thought he was kidding.

lightfootfl

re yours and grads
Thanks guys, appreciate the reply..very interesting tool, just had never heard of anything like it before. In as much as I don't have a vehicle with it, I will just be on the lookout for one.
van

pat

He's a new member who has been posting in Cobalt discussions. It's an easy mistake to make and lots of folks do.

eldaino

thanks!

thegraduate

I've done it! Most of us in this room probably have. Don't feel bad, Sharkman!

sales2010

I believe the Corolla should be added to the list.

aviator48570

I just bought a brand new 2007 Civic LX sedan and drove it from Florida to Colorado Springs (about 1900 miles). Total drive time was about 30 hours divided between two 12 hour days and one 6 hour day. My average fuel economy on the interstate was about 38.5ish MPG, the low being low 38 and the high being around 39.3ish. Once we arrived at altitude and started driving around the city (and hills), I was averaging 34-35MPG, not bad for those conditions. So if you're looking for an economical sedan, my $18,000 Civic has treated me well for the first couple thousand miles of its life (having never spent more than $28 dollars on a tank of gas--we always refilled below the 1/4 tank mark). BTW, the drive up was extremely comfortable, even on the 12 hour days and through Kansas, lol (j/k). Honda did a superb job with the interior comforts with the newly designed Civics.

steve333

Do you find the speedometer to be annoying? Thats the one thing I dont like about the interior.

eldaino

i never found it annoying. took some getting used to, but it resulted in it being harder to get used to traditional displays afterward.

aviator48570

I didn't find it annoying either. I had to get used to it being digital vs old fashion dial style, but it's position, adjustable brightness at night, and everything else about it I found to be nice.

steve333

I thought it might be intrusive because its higher up than a normal gauge.
How does the car handle bumps?