neighborhood ban on trucks

dansa2dansa2 Member Posts: 28
there is currently a fight going on in south
florida concerning parking your truck over night in
your driveway. city ordinance states no truck
shall be parked in driveway over night. the only
persons to receive fines are pick-up truck owners.i
thought trucks included suv's such as ford
expedition,chevy suburban,etc...they seem to be
excluded. trucks must be kept in the garage.
gee i wonder if we could have ordinances for
luxury sedans for same? one city is proposing
revising ordinance to be aimed at construction type
vehicles only and to remind everyone that pick-ups
are also family vehicles.
ANY COMMENTS.......
Tagged:

Comments

  • reeferreefer Member Posts: 37
    Parking restrictions of any kind like that you describe are for snobs. If it's your driveway, and it's your truck, van, boat, RV, or Pony, you should be able to park it there. It always amazes me how small minded people can be. The township where I live has no zoning of any kind. It's wide open and I like it that way.
  • powerisfunpowerisfun Member Posts: 358
    I agree that an all encompassing law like that is crappy, but keep in mind laws like that aren't made only to make snobs happy, they also protect
    the value of your home. All cities, for example, prohibit livestock to be kept on a property within the city limits. If they didn't, there would always be someone who keeps pigs, chickens, etc. right in the front yard. The smell and noise would make no one want to live there and the value of your home would plummet. Picture yourself finding out your home is now worth only $40,000 when you're still in debt for the $100,000 that you bought it for. And all because a few people are keeping livestock. Most people would immediately want to call a council meeting and have livestock banned, which is probably exactly how it happened.
    Now the pickup law is an older ordinance that was enacted when pickups were mainly work trucks that were dirty, rusty, beat-up and possibly not well maintained (leaking fluids, etc.).
    While not as big a threat as livestock, if enough people had them in your little community, you can bet potential home buyers would look elsewhere and your home's value would drop or at the very least, it wouldn't appreciate at all.
    That law is now out of date which is why they're trying to get it to apply only to work vehicles. There are probably some snobs who want it to apply to all pickups, but they're just mad at the world for some other reason. Nowadays, even work trucks look pretty nice, though, so I'm not sure why it should even apply to them.
    Townships are a bit different because they're usually in a rural area that has larger properties. In that case, no one cares if a truck is parked in your driveway because you can barely see it from the neighbors house. Same goes for livestock, the noise and smell aren't as bad when they're farther away. Just my thoughts on the subject.

    -powerisfun
  • gwmooregwmoore Member Posts: 230
    I'm with powerisfun, zoning is necessary to protect property value and quality of life. I am as conservative as can be, believe goverment is way out of control coddling and protecting us, and I can't stand living where CC&Rs restrict a good portion of normal property rights. But I do think most zoning laws are a good thing.

    We had some loser move into our old neighborhood and decide to turn his property into a junk yard. He had old cars, trucks, junky boats, etc. all over his front yard, driveway, and occasionally on the street. It must have absolutely killed his immediate neighbors' property values. We (the neighborhood) tried to make him clean up the mess by claiming he was operating a non-permitted commercial activity in a single family neighborhood. By the time we moved (moving for other reasons), we still hadn't got the neighborhood eye-sore cleared up. If we had a law like the one about trucks parked outside, it would have been a lot easier to get rid of the neighborhood menace.

    Unfortunately, like many laws that are created for good reasons, they are often abused later by being applied to situations like a family pickup parked in the driveway. I wonder if planners or law enforcement actively enforce the law, or if they only respond to complaints?
  • tracyotracyo Member Posts: 72
    Would not want to live in a place like that.
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Member Posts: 764
    Here in Ontario we have a number of restrictions affecting zoning - livestock, noxious weeds etc. Not sure about trucks. I think the important thing (at least where I am) is that common sense is used in applying the law. Does someone get fined if they have a dandelion in their lawn in May, no - but they might if they had more weeds than grass.

    Ironically status seems to override common sense when it comes to most homeowners. Because we are rural property is relatively cheap so there are many fairl large homes, many with triple garages. Despite this, and the bad weather, it is always the expensive cars that are left out on drives to try and impress people - go figure.
  • z71z71 Member Posts: 67
    I will always live were I am surrounded by enough land where I can work on anything I want and park it wherever I want. I realize that not all are that lucky (I am in college now and have to temporarily live in an urban jungle also), and feel sorry for y'all!!
  • RoclesRocles Member Posts: 982
    Was this "ban" on parking trucks in a driveway at a resticted community?? I can't feel sorry if so since homeowners are informed of the restrictions before buying the house.
    I had relatives move to a "retirement" type of golf course/community where one resident of the house had to be 55 or older. No children under 18 were allowed to reside in said home for more than a month and some clown sued. The judge threw the case out (thank God) since the clown had no basis of the suit.
    Would I live there? No...but it teaches an important lesson---Ask before buying. Find out about zones, restictions, deed-limits, etc...Before Buying!! Ignorance is not an excuse.
  • dansa2dansa2 Member Posts: 28
    this particular ordinance has been imposed not only fore one small neighborhood community but for the whole city of more than 45,000 residence.all new home buyers should read community restrictions before buying but fact is that this ordinance is enforced only to pick-up truck owners. ordinance states ...trucks not permitted to be parked over night in driveway of single family home or parking lot of multifamily complex...key word here is trucks. that includes ford expedition,chevy suburban,etc. but these vehicles,for some arrogant reason, are being excluded from the ordinance. isnt it just as ridiculous to say no honda accords or lexus or no vehicles more than 8 years old can be parked at your home unless they are garaged. so dont give me the ignorance is not an excuse bit. and now the city is going to revise many ordinances including the truck issue to only restrict commercial vehicles the topic will be discussed at a city meeting. they finally realize that pick-ups are family vehicles just as much as suburbans and expeditions.
  • mviglianco1mviglianco1 Member Posts: 283
    That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Forget protecting the value of you property, the problem is that you have to worry about that in the first place. I thank God and all living creatures I dont live where you people having these problems live. Why does it matter what time of day it is? If it is overnight everyone should be asleep and you should be allowed to graze your livestock in their flowergarden. How did we get to this level of stupidity? Again I thank the Lord I have never had to deal with this. I quess living in the mtns most of my life has given me a much more grounded and realistic view of whats inportant. Sorry
  • gwmooregwmoore Member Posts: 230
    dansa2,
    Has the law been actively enforced by city officials (i.e. - is it patrolled)? Or is it just enforced after complaints? It makes a difference, because it tells if the city officials are screwed up, or just forced to deal with an out of date law.

    Argument for zoning restrictions,
    Unless you live in a very uniform community where people have the same values, with today's populations, you have to have some zoning in order to prevent people from doing things in residential neighborhoods that are not consistent with residential life, like operating a business (noisy all-night mechanic shop, porn/sex shop/strip bar, stinky dairy farm), operating loud equipment at night, having noisy/smelly livestock, etc. If you don't have controls, the results include neighborhood discord (historically has led to violence, crime, decreasing property values and declining neighborhoods).

    Obviously it's different in the country where people have acreage and can isolate themselves from their neighbors. But don't start encouraging people to move to the country. What do you think would happen if everyone moved to the country to avoid restrictions such as zoning laws? I bet those of you appreciating your freedoms in the country now would lose much of your quality of life.

    Lets face it, there are way too many people out there that are totally content to live like complete pigs, and would, if it weren't for zoning. I see it in plenty of areas without some zoning (double-digit broken down cars in the front yard, tons of unidentifiable rubbish, and a complete lack of upkeep). This can be unsafe, is injurious to those that do keep up their property (financially & aesthetically), and is completely preventable (regardless of economic level). All it takes is the occasional effort to clean up.

    Now this particular law does stink in its current state if it is being enforced. But I bet when it was created, very few people had pickups for private use in that neighborhood. It is probable that it was started because MANY large construction trucks, heavy equipment, and pickups were being left in single-family neighborhoods in driveways and in the streets for extended periods of time.

    Right now I have home construction going on around my house, and if I had the large trucks, machinery, and different trucks sitting in the driveway and on the street around my house 24-hours a day for six or more months, I would start getting annoyed and concerned. I don't care if the construction people leave one of their identified pickups at the house they are working on occasionally, but if its a different truck left there often over night, I think that situation leads to neighborhood security problems. An example would be burglars using the construction and random trucks to their advantage.

    All this leads to the responsibility of government to protect the peace. I am way on the right side of the political spectrum and believe the goverment is way too intrusive and wants to coddle us too much. I can't believe their is a federal law requiring garage doors to have that stupic safety beam. I hate seat belt/helmet laws. There are too many to state. But I do recognize the role of government, and the tendency of many people to take advantage of chaos in the vacuum of laws.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    to prevent the problem people living like pigs with trash all over the place....but not parking a Pick-up in the driveway??....give me a break!

    Snobs go home....or in this case...MOVE!

    I hate people who think they are soooo much better than eveyone else....when in fact most are credit carded to the limit and have no assets at all..and In fact most of us are actually better off than them.

    DIE Yuppie Scum!
    - Tim
  • reddogsreddogs Member Posts: 353
    We were going to incorporate as part of that city/district so they sent us the the "bylaws"....
    before we voted on it. I almost dropped dead from a stroke, no pickups, no vans, no work trucks or business vehicles with the name on the side, no boats or sailboats in the front, cannot paint YOUR house unless approved PAINT & COLOR, dont even think of cutting or trimming that tree in the front without approval, no POOLS unless surrounded by a 5 foot high STONE wall, on and on etc...etc.. and what was the benefit of being part of that city/district. Our property would appreciate from their "label/name" and their police/fire response time was better. Of course our taxes would quadruple but we would have the benefit of the "prestige" associated with their name/city. My wife (pickup owner) took one look and said "if you vote for it, you're sleeping on the sofa", so after much DEEP thought on the ISSUE I decided I liked my bed instead......:0)
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Member Posts: 535
    selective conservatism is not being conservative. The "not in my backyard" school of thought is a perfect example . Of course you cant have a business in a residental zoned area. But to limit the owning of pickups,boats,rv's, children ,pets, restoration project is sliding down that slippery slope of socialism ..Where do the rules you agree with end ? and if not your rules maybe others.
  • gwmooregwmoore Member Posts: 230
    Calm down now. Yes, I am very conservative. I believe people have the ability to attain any economic/social level they are willing to work for, and they can live where they want for whatever reasons they want. I chose my neighborhood because it fits my current economic level, it is attractive, close to my work and services, has a trail that leads along a beautiful river nearby, and does not have the CC&Rs that many nice neighborhoods have in my area have. Many don't allow fences, dog runs, and other things that I want to be free to have. My neighborhood does have some significant zoning requirements, and some I don't care for. I could have lived in other areas with much less restrictive zoning, but you know what, they are not as nice.

    Until I have enough money to buy 40 acres and a nice home, which I plan to someday, I want to live where people at least appear to have pride of ownership. And trust me, I have lived in areas where they do not. As Tim says, many people do live like complete pigs if allowed. I don't want to live next to someone with six cars parked in their front "garden", two of the cars cut in half (obviously, that's from my experience).

    Is it right to not allow any vehicles in the driveway? As I said before, I certainly don't think so. So, yes, that law should be changed if the residents in that community think so. But I'm guessing there was a good reason for the law when it was created. Otherwise people would have been complaining back then. It's more than likely that residents pushed for the restriction.

    I was just speaking to the anarchists that were saying all zoning was unacceptable. Move to the country before it's too late. What a joke. Let's just destroy the quality of life in the country with every pig that wants to litter their yard living on 1/2-acre lots in farming country.

    I think most of you would agree that some zoning is in everyone's best interest, but it's inevitable that some elements of even the most relaxed zoning would annoy someone. Capitalism is the best system and a restricted government role is the best role of government. But there is always someone that takes advantage of free society, and that's where government has a role.

    I don't think its an easy thing to say what homeowners can and can't do. In general, I think planners are trying their best to balance the interests of having a pleasant community with preserving homeowner's rights. Further, their job is complicated when society changes and new factors must be considered and old factors are no longer the same. These are poorly paid people that only have negative relations with the public. No one ever thanks them when things are going well. But everyone is sure to rip them when things go wrong. Where I am living, the planners are getting ripped for allowing a new driving range (complies with zoning) to be built with 150' poles and nets that interrupt the mountain views for people living anywhere within five miles of the range. Zoning wasn't strict enough, I guess.

    Often, I think the reason people originally like a community and decide to move there may become the reason they complain about zoning. You might drive through an area and think it is a great neighborhood and appreciate how everyone keeps their yards and drives, not realizing they might be forced to do so. Then you move there and resent that you have to take care of your own front yard.

    So what do I think is the right amount of zoning control? I think there should be a variety of zoning restrictions in different areas. Let people decide what they like and live in those areas. It is prefferable to keep the control as local as possible, and that is where subdivision/neighborhood CC&Rs are good, rather than zoning, because different developers can create different types of neighborhoods with different rules, and free market competition will ensure giving the customer what they want. In general, I think city zoning should support the community norms and restrict those activities that would create discord or be unsafe. Like I said, I don't think that it is easy to define, and there are bound to be some rules that are looked upon unfavorably by some people. That's why the system must be kept open to public review, then the public has control and blame can't only be placed solely on planners or other city officials.

    That's it for me, I can't do anymore posts without mention of pickups.
  • reddogsreddogs Member Posts: 353
    I will speak directly to the problem here as I know what Dansa2 is trying to get at. You are correct in saying planners are usually trying their best to balance the interests of having a pleasant community with preserving homeowner's right. I agree with you against anarchist that say all zoning is unacceptable, I also agree that some zoning is in everyone's best interest, but you have to look at what is the reasoning behind some of this area's zoning laws. The city in question is not trying to just keep the lawns clean and green, they want them "rich and luxurious". They didn't set up the codes to keep dog runs and ugly fences out, they set them up to keep those type of people who might not have the same social/economic status. It wasn't "pride of ownership" they were worried about, it was "pride of owners" in their little haven of moneyed gentry. It is nothing but elitetism rearing its ugly head, and no red tape, planners prerogative, or "anarchist pickup owner" arguments are going to change that. They dont want anyone with less than a 500k house building in their neighborhood, thats the "good reason for the law when
    it was created". It's not the pickups or trucks that bothers them, it's the people who come with them and don't have a offshore account or stocks to the hilt with bonds on the side. I live a "stones throw away" from them, and I know why they don't want my little 200k house in their sphere of ownership. But, thats OK, I'll just take my humble abode and be happy in the pride of
    ownership of it and my lowly Toyota Pickup....
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Member Posts: 535
    You have stated the Real story very well.
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Member Posts: 764
    Whilst that may be true to some extent, please don't tar everyone with the same brush. I am in the process of buying another vehicle which will mean that when I am not driving my truck I will be driving a Jaguar XJS. The two are not often seen together, but similar combinations are not that unusual in my area.

    Now maybe social and economic standing are less important here, but I have never seen or heard of judgements being made based on vehicles driven - maybe I am lucky to live where I do.
  • powerisfunpowerisfun Member Posts: 358
    Let's suppose you did own a $500K home in the middle of a vast undeveloped area (e.g. you bought the first home there). Suddenly the zoning changes so that there are no restrictions on home size or value. Many $50K-$100K homes start being built all around you and a low-income apartment complex is also built right up the road. Now anyone that can afford to buy your home (should you want to sell it) won't because of lower quality homes around you. Your home now has nowhere near the $500K value you paid for it. You're stuck with your home unless you want to take a huge loss on it. This is an extreme example to illustrate the spirit of zoning.
    My personal experience is sort of the opposite.
    I live in an area where the homes are worth $150K-$250K, but across the street from me, the guy built a $600K home. It's great for the neighborhood (probably raised all our home values by quite a bit), but we can't understand why he would want to do that because he'll never be able to sell it for anywhere near that should he ever need to.
    Some people do take it too far, but in general
    zoning = good.
    -powerisfun
  • gwmooregwmoore Member Posts: 230
    I was under the impression that the zoning in this particular instance - banning trucks from being left in the driveway overnight - was an older law, not a new one that has been applied against non-commercial pickup owners, but allows nice cars in driveways. If it is a newer law, applied in the past 10-15 years, then I would be more likely to agree with you that it is more about elitism. If it is an older law, which seems more likely to me, then it seems more an attempt to just keep construction vehicles from being left cluttering neighborhoods for extended periods of time.

    If the restriction on pickups in driveways was indeed about elitism, as you say, it sounds more like a developer's CC&R rather than a city zoning code.

    Regardless, with today's pickups costing upwards of $40,000 and representing status symbols, with LINCOLN set to sell pickups for God's sake, it's time to change the zoning anyway. I can just see a neighborhood in the future with a yuppy showing off his loaded Lincoln 3/4-ton Quad with tonneau cover, tail light grills, running boards, brush guard, and Warn wench parked next to his BMW on the driveway. If he can't park it out front, how can he show up his neighbor's stock Cadillac 1/2-ton ext. cab?
  • reddogsreddogs Member Posts: 353
    Funny you so say about "owning a $500K home in the
    middle of a vast undeveloped area (e.g. you bought
    the first home there)", I just bought 5 acres in a "vast undeveloped area" and am building one of the first few houses there. The homes being built are in the 200k-700k (this is florida after all) with rich retirees building their "dream homes" with plenty of savings. We plan to be very active in this new community and my wife has already made the rounds (with her pickup), its zoned AGRICULTURE and will soon come up against this very topic as more houses and roads are built.

    If I was the developer, I would build 3 types of areas, the "retirement zone" with quiet and comfortable areas of parks and bike trails, the "yuppie zone" with wide boulevards, easy highway access, and plenty of malls, high tech business's, banks etc...., and the "progressive zone" where modest homes, condos, townhouses and apartments would be the norm with huge auto parks, nice resturants, schools for the children, lakes/beaches etc..
    So everyone would have their "comfort zones" depending if you were just starting out, in the middle raising a family, or finishing at retirement. This would give each area a good mixture in the areas of income/social/economic levels and still allow those groups with similiar backgrounds/pursuits to build social ties and enjoy life.
  • powerisfunpowerisfun Member Posts: 358
    I like your plan and your zone names. Good luck with your new home and land. Here's hoping you end up in the zone you want to be in.
    -powerisfun
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    The bottom line is there always is something that pisses someone else off.

    Case in point, I live in a semi-custom house on a half acre and purposely moved here so I'd have room for my toys. There ARE NO [email protected]'s. While working on me supercharged tunnel boat my neighbor asks if I could tune up his boat. After changing all fluids(outdrive, engine etc.) plugs, wires, all in all about a $300 service at no cost to him 'cept for parts I find out he MF's me to the other neighbors in the cul-de-sac that I'm always working on my toys on my property. He sure didn't mind me working on his junk. Thank goodness the other neighbors are gear heads also and came to me.
  • reddogsreddogs Member Posts: 353
    Sorry I got so wrapped up in my acres I lost my train of thought. modvptnl - You brought up a good point that will soon apply to me, how do you protect the value of you investment/property if you have no [email protected]'s.
    I irritate my neighbors sometimes when I drop the tranny or yank the heads in my front yard, and if they wanted too they could make trouble (I know there is one of the codes that retricts it).
    So I take it into the back yard and everyone is happy, by doing so I adjusted my behavior so as to not disturb the "comfort zones" that my neighbors have a right to when they bought into this neighborhood.
    Now in a undeveloped/unincorporated area there wont be any codes to restrict me, but will I dump the 3427 different tranny parts all over my front lawn and let them sit out there for 3 weeks till I get the replacement seals.
    No, even though there is no rule or code I would still take it in the back and out of sight just out of common courtesy to neighbors who might get upset about it.
    You have to respect their "comfort zones" that they expect when they bought into that neighborhood, BUT and a very big BUT, if they start making rules and changing codes to keep PEOPLE out of the neighborhood then we'll have a problem.
    If they want to restrict BEHAVIOR (i.e. speeding, dumps on front lawn, butt naked streakers, etc..) I can handle that, but if they try to restrict PEOPLE (no pickups/people with trucks), then they are going to have a PROBLEM!!
  • ozarkozark Member Posts: 124
    I meet a man camping last year from South Florida and as we discussed fishing and hallowed rivers in the Rockies, the subject-somehow-turned to restrictive convenants and laws similar to this pickup in the front driveway silliness. Let's protect that investment but does the house own the owner or does the owner own the house? As my old friend Pacheco used to say "sometime we remember that life is short and there is no reason to fill it with bs." The guy from Florida was looking for a place to move. Smart man.
  • nargnarg Member Posts: 112
    There is a similar law in a North suburb of Oklahoma City. OKLAHOMA CITY of all places!! Oklahoma is one of the 3 bigest truck states of the union. Pathetic humans!
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    Go to a junkyard a buy a bunch of untitled wrecks of pickups, and plunk one down on every driveway in the neighborhood. Just a loud, untracable statement about how absurd the law is.
  • rrichfrrichf Member Posts: 211
    rea98d,
    I like it!
    Rich
  • rick63rick63 Member Posts: 10
    A common theme throughout the response has been live where you want to live. That being said choosing where to live entails economic, geographic and CC&R consideration. If the laws in your neighborhood are not to your liking then you should not live there, hopefully you were made aware of these laws before choosing to live in this neighborhood. I am the president of my homeowners association and we do have a restriction on commercial vehicles and vehicles over 10,000 lbs gross, I own a pick up and believe that a ban on specific relatively ordinary vehicles such as a pickup is ridiculous.
    As the president in my association one of my responsibilities is to provide a copy of the CC & R's to the escrow agents who are closing on sales in my neighborhood, hopefully this helps all of my prospective neighbors make informed decision. I like my neighborhood, and those who wish to raise chickens or collect yet to be operational vehicles in the yard will not find it to there liking, and I'm OK with that, not that it is elitist it is just the way we choose to live and preserve our property values, consistency can be a good thing.
    To each his/her own.
  • towcrazy2towcrazy2 Member Posts: 337
    Just stumbled upon this topic, and I'm ASTOUNDED that a municipality could possibly ban pickup trucks!!!

    Were I in the same position, I would certainly follow the letter of the law... Trade in the pickup, acquire a florescent orange Humvee, and park it proudly in the drive!
  • rrichfrrichf Member Posts: 211
    Some of the communities with HOAs won't let you park anything in the driveway.
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Member Posts: 535
    Its a slippery slope we are traveling down when we even have to consider this subject. Lately as we climb over each other to become more politically correct,way to many of us are willing to watch our freedoms be eroded away .Its sad to see that you cant live where you want in this country even if you have the means. A natural progression of a no greater than 10K gcwr is no pickups,then no more v8's then ban those gas powered yard tools you big polluters
  • meredithmeredith Member Posts: 575
    After 30 or more days of inactivity....

    this topic is being "frozen." It will be archived or deleted in the next 10 days or so.

    Front Porch Philosopher
    SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
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