Gpsac: Could you tell me the secret to finding these lease terms you have attained? "24 mo lease 197 (incl tax; no down)" That sounds amazing! Where can I find that?
I got the SE V6 in Orlando, FL. From what I've read here people are payiing $1000 - 2000 below invoice.
No secret really. Just find the dealer willing to sell you the car for the lowest price. The SE V6 has an MSRP of 24,845. Invoice of 21,755. Basically got it for 20,200 or roughly 1,500 below invoice.
Between the four area dealers there were about 40 SE V6's in stock + who knows how many in transit. At first they were giving me prices around 21,000+, but one of the salesman worked his boss a bit harder and got a better price.
When I finally agreed on a price (through email) I made an appointment and honestly was expecting a payment of 205 + tax, however they made a mistake by residualizing unqualified options(or lied about it afterward) and the payment was only 185 + tax. Of course I didn't argue that the payment was too low.
i got mine the last weekend of April and the SE V6 seems to have taken a bigger May residual adjustment (69 down to 64%) than the other models so the payment this month is about $25 higher. Although in turn that $25 also gives you a lower residual and better chance for some equity after 2 years.
My advice would be to not go in until someone agrees via email on a price (including dealer fee) that will get the payment you want. Don't be shy about emailing back a price you want to pay. Know the residual %'s, money rates and invoice for the model you want so you can calculate it yourself.
Someone was generous enough to compile this list of LX and SE prices from the Honda forum and post it a few weeks ago.
If I recall correctly, the first number column is the selling price. Second the "out the door" price and third is the forum post number so you can find and view it.
As you can see there are some who have gotten better deals on the SE V6 than I did. Even if you're looking for an EX this gives you a general idea of the deals which can be had.
Accord SE XXXXXX $19,500 14447 Accord SE $18,685 $19,950 14411 Accord SE XXXXXX $20,000 14448 Accord SE $18,592 $20,000 14301 Accord SE $18,795 XXXXXX 14418 Accord SE $18,840 XXXXXX 14484 Accord SE $18,973 $20,200 14326 Accord SE $19,000 XXXXXX 14223 Accord SE $19,146 $20,441 14293 Accord SE $19,294 $21,226 14568
Accord SE V6 $19,759 $21,700 14224 Accord SE V6 $19,789 XXXXXX 14245 Accord SE V6 $20,300 XXXXXX 14260 Accord SE V6 $20,500 XXXXXX 14585 Accord SE V6 $20,533 XXXXXX 14602 Accord SE V6 $20,903 $22,260 14219
A dealer gives me this information.. Selling price of 22000, MSRP which includes destination and handling of 25645, money factor of .00078 and residual of 16412.
I plug these numbers into my calculations and with the 7% tax in my state, I come up with a payment of 280 even per month. The dealers are coming up with monthly payments well above 300.
Why is this?? How can there be such a big difference,. Do they actually calculate the payments in a different way?? I thought if you had the 4 pertinent pieces of information you should be able to calculate the payment and make a deal.
Did you take into account the $595 "acqusition fee" this is in addition to the $595 destination fee. I was not aware of both and someone else on the forum confirmed that for me. (there is no acq. fee for a buy only for a lease). Good luck with the car. (I recently leased a EX-l V6 w/o NAV and I love it!)
A selling price of $22,200 plus the $595 acquisition fee (which, as another poster mentioned, you probably weren't including) gives a cap cost of $22,795. With the mf and residual you quoted your monthly payment would be $296.54 plus tax for a total monthly payment of $317.30. This assumes an upfront payment of tags, title and dealer document fees plus first month's payment.
The selling price was 22,000 even. That included the destination and handling fee. I have to add the 595 aquisition fee to that also, when calculating the lease? I was going to pay the Aquisition fee + first month + MV fees at inception.
But if I have to add the aquisition fee of 595 into the lease payment that definitely changes the payment. I come up with a payment of 310 with tax.. Is this correct. Does this seem like a fair deal?
i was running your numbers and I have a couple questions: 1. Is your tax calculated per monthly payment or do you pay the whole thing up front? (My state you pay it all up front so that for you in a 24 month lease would be $64 per month. 2. What is the total you will pay when you pick up the car? (the minimum is the first months payment, if you want you can roll everything else into the monthly payment, obviously if you pay more up front your payment will decrease. )
I'm planning on leasing two (yes, two) Accords this week for my daughters, and am preparing my ammo for the dealers. The current Honda lease deal supposedly excludes the $750 cash-to-dealer in combination with the subvented money factor rates (IOW, the dealer supposedly can't take advantage of the $750 incentive and also allow the better lease rates being offered to the customer).
There are numerous examples on this board of negotiated sale prices at $1500-$2000 under invoice. My question is this: can I still reasonably expect to get a deal at $1500-$2000 under invoice AND get the subvented money-factor lease rates? Anyone on this board been able to do this?
I'm looking at either leasing two SEi4AT's or two EXi4ATw/NAV (possibly EX-L's, depending on the deals I can get and supply/demand for various models).
Also, for e-mail inquiries to dealers, have you used the Edmunds format or created your own? Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated!
Take a look at message #1287. The price of $22,000 for an EX-L is about $1300 under invoice. How can this be? It's widely assumed there's at least $1000 in unpublicized (or "secret") dealer cash on all deals which is in addition to the better-known $750 incentive. Combined with holdback and the need to move vehicles and who-knows-what-else . . . these deals are definitely available!
(Sorry about adding an extra $200 to your price - we know that's the dealer's job, right?)
Since the experts advise paying as little as possible (or practical) upfront on a lease, it makes sense to add the acquistion fee into the cap cost. Theoretically, you could roll registration fees and even your first month's payment into the lease - but it's kind of "standard" to pay those upfront, and makes calculations very straightforward.
I calculate your monthly payment at $308 (and a few pennies) which includes the 7% tax.
Thanks for the reply. I'm a firm believer in "getting all my ducks in a row" before taking on a car purchase and was hoping to have some definitive ammunition to use in response to the poor pitiful whines I know I will hear from dealers. Does anybody have any more precise or definitive description of the sources of this unpublicized "secret" cash to the dealer? I understand volume incentives and holdback; just would like to be able to let those I negotaiate with know that I'm familiar with any other incentives they may have to work with.
I've seen a number of posts in the Prices Paid forum where someone has had good success with the Edmunds inquiries. This should give you a good starting point for negotiation. (In the comments section you could state you're going to be leasing, if you want to avoid the "oh, we can't do that price on a lease".)
An alternate approach (also successfully used on these forums) would be to email a number of dealers with your specific proposal - selling price, cap cost, money factor, residual, etc. and a correctly calculated lease payment. State that you're ready to do this deal today (or whatever time frame you want to specify), all you need from them is yes or no. (If you take this approach you need to spell out dealer document fees or state the selling price includes all dealer fees. You want to guard against a low quote that's sabotaged by inflated dealer fees.)
Personally, I don't think you need to get into "incentive specifics" with a dealer. You can demonstrate you know what you're doing in other ways. And having competitive quotes in hand, and being willing to walk away, are time-tested and effective in ultimately arriving at a price you're happy with.
Finally, in working with several dealers last month to hammer out an acceptable lease - I found some were easy to deal with and one was absolutely impossible. I'd have been very discouraged - with a totally inaccurate read on the marketplace - if I'd not gone beyond that one impossible dealer.Good luck!
Trying to find out if anyone has any experience with the current AHFC lease specials regarding their application to other "close cousin" models. I am looking to lease either an SE i4 AT or EX-L i4 with NAV, and the AHFC lease specials specifically name 4-cylinder LX's or 6-cylinder EX-L's as being qualified for preferred lease rates. Close, but not quite the same. Even thought the SE is a "special edition LX", it's still a different model number than what's spelled out in the details for preferred lease rates.
Has anyone been able to use these lease specials for models not specifically named in the "lease details" by AHFC? IOW, has anyone been able to get AHFC preferred lease rates for models that are close but not quite the same as their specifications?
you are looking at a 24mo. 15k lease correct? Did the $22000 include destination? If it does I am calculating $280 a month including tax, if you pay acq fee, MVA fees up front. If it does not include destination I am calcualting $306. I got my EX-L V6 lease for $1700 under invoice at the end of April so the deals are out there.
Although there are advertised lease specials on the web site there are also better MF's for other models as well. You would need someone with access to the booklet Honda publishes monthly for that info. Carman (forum moderator) can usually help out with those, or browse through the forum for quotes pple have gotten. Those numbers cant change. ie if Honda says superpreferred MF for this model is .00078 that is the best you can get. This is also true for the residual value. Hope this helps...
Now, does this seem like a fair deal on this particular vehicle.
Seems fair to me. The $22,000 price is $1300 under invoice and is right in line with a quote I got from a reasonable dealer a couple of weeks ago. As mentioned previously, the key at this point is to make sure the dealer doesn't try to pad his profit with inflated "fees". In the SF Bay Area (which is the only area I have personal knowldege of) dealer document fees run about $55.
Can someone let me know what the current MF and residual is for an EX-L V6 36 months, 12K miles in CO? I'm trying to break down the lease special on the web, figuring the residual to be 56%, but can't quite hit the MF to get $279/mo on their example. Thanks
Interesting. The national lease offer on Honda's website shows a "net capitalized cost of $24,675.54" . . . which when I plug into a spreadsheet along with the residual they quote ($15,677.20) equates to a money factor of .00072 for a $279 monthly payment.
Thanks, nircdoc. The more I look at these deals, the more confusing it gets. I'm hoping that Carman or someone else with access to the AHFC lease guidelines can help as you suggest. Several questions:
As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm looking to lease an SE i4 AT Sedan or EX-L i4 AT Sedan with Navi. Neither of the special lease deals on the AHFC website are targeted at these models (they're for LX i4 AT Sedans and EX-L V6 AT Sedans without Navi--so I'm looking at different model numbers than specified in their promos), but in preliminary negotiations with one local Honda dealer, it appears that the preferred MF rates ARE available for other models. However, it does appear that Honda is subventing the residuals to varying degrees across their model lines. For example, the residuals cited in the AHFC promo for 12K/24 mo leases for the LX and the EX-l are .58 and .56 respectively, each of which are significantly higher than Black Book numbers.
This differs from the residuals quoted to me by the sales manager at the local dealer for the models I'm looking at; he quoted residuals of .55 for both the SE i4 AT Sedan and the EX-L i4 AT Sedan with Navi for the same lease terms.
Additionally, the MF rates are slightly different for these two promotions; the MF rate for 12K/24 mo leases on the LX is .00078 and .0007199 on the EX-L. The MF rates the local dealer quoted me are .00078 for both the models I'm wanting to lease (or at least that's the MF rate he gave me--obviously the deal has to be approved by AHFC before it's finalized).
Since I'm looking at different models and different lease terms than the promos detail, I'm hoping for a little help. If anyone has access to the AHFC guidelines, can you please let me know the following:
1. Are preferred MF rates and "pumped up" residuals also available for SE i4 AT Sedans and/or EX-L i4 AT Sedans with Navi?
2. If so, what are the residuals for each of these models for 12/24, 15/24, 12/36 and 15/36? (My dealer tells me they are .64, .63, .55 and .53 respectively for both models)
3. Also, if the preferred lease terms are available for the above models, what are the money factors for each?
Sorry to be so long-winded, but don't know how to ask in simpler terms. Thanks in advance for any help available!
and nothing comes up for dealer money. Plug in a lot of other ZIP codes and $750 comes up.
If the dealers in your area are not getting $750 per Accord in dealer money then they will NOT be able to sell you a car as cheap as what folks are posting here.
If you are going to lease with a cheap least deal, it does not matter (since the cheap lease and dealer money can't be combined), but if you are going to buy then you just have to pay more.
Since the experts advise paying as little as possible (or practical) upfront on a lease, it makes sense to add the acquisition fee into the cap cost. Theoretically, you could roll registration fees and even your first month's payment into the lease - but it's kind of "standard" to pay those upfront, and makes calculations very straightforward.
Correct, and if you get really cheap money (under 2% effective rate on these deals) you can roll everything into the lease - acq fee, tags, title, taxes, etc - where else you going to get < 2% charge for borrowing money?
Be sure to check with the F&I guy if they are requiring a security desposit or not. If they are, you can get them to raise the MF by 0.0001 and they will waive the deposit. In most cases, if you compare the payment with the deposit rolled in (at a lower rate) with the deposit waived (at a slightly higher rate) the higher rate is normally cheaper per month. You should always have access to a lease calc and run the numbers for yourself and decide.
Additionally, the MF rates are slightly different for these two promotions; the MF rate for 12K/24 mo leases on the LX is .00078 and .0007199 on the EX-L. The MF rates the local dealer quoted me are .00078 for both the models I'm wanting to lease (or at least that's the MF rate he gave me--obviously the deal has to be approved by AHFC before it's finalized).
Since I'm looking at different models and different lease terms than the promos detail, I'm hoping for a little help. If anyone has access to the AHFC guidelines, can you please let me know the following:
1. Are preferred MF rates and "pumped up" residuals also available for SE i4 AT Sedans and/or EX-L i4 AT Sedans with Navi?
2. If so, what are the residuals for each of these models for 12/24, 15/24, 12/36 and 15/36? (My dealer tells me they are .64, .63, .55 and .53 respectively for both models)
3. Also, if the preferred lease terms are available for the above models, what are the money factors for each?
1. I think you answered your own question - the dealer told you 0.00078 on the models you want to lease - that is a discounted rate. Take MF x 2400 to get effective percentage rate - so 0.00078 X 2400 = 1.872% . Note that this would be the tier 1 rate without dealer markup. Someone with a auto-enhanced FICO under 710 would pay more. Someone leasing from a dealer who marks up the rate (for additional profit - rare in a Honda dealer) would charge more. The difference between the 0.0007199 (1.72%) and 0.000780 are very small < $2 a month difference on a $20k lease deal. So it sounds like ALL the lease money is way below "market value".
2. The residual is set by the lease bank and can't be changed by the dealer, so a quick call to the F&I guy who gave you the lease rates should answer that question. The LX looks to be 66% (24 mo) and 58% (36 mo) for 12k/yr leases, 64% and 54% for 15k/yr leases.
I just got an Accord LX 4 door automatic leased for 36 months 15k annual mileage for 219 a month and 2000 down. The gross capitalized cost is $19949 (agreed upon value $19354). Adjusted capitalized cost (after $1391.70 cost reduction) is $18557.30 Residual value is $12135.20 Acquisition fee 595. so the gross capitalized cost is 19949 I am wondering if this is actually a good deal. My credit score is 720 with little history.
HI Gpsac. I am looking to buy a SE V6. May I ask which dealer in orlando gave you that price 20200? The best one I got was 20400 but its MSRP only 23995. Thanks.
got mine at coggin. The actual selling price was 20750 (including dealer fee) + 595 acquisition, however they residualized 1800 worth of dealer added options (which apparently ? they should not have) although they forgot to residualize the 900 factory discount. By doing this it reduced the payment to where if calculated correctly would have backed out to a selling price of approximately 20200.
MSRP of 23945 is after the 900 discount on the sticker. Residual should be calculated from 24845.
If your 20400 includes the typical 599 dealer (doc) fee, I'd say that you've got yourself a pretty good deal.
I just got quoted this on a 2007 Accord EX-L Navi i4 1. MSRP 27,645 2. CAP cost 25,509 3. Lease Term (months) and Annual Mileage Limit (miles per year) 36/45,000 4. Money Factor .00078 5. Residual 14,651.85 6. Monthly Payment $390 including tax (my tax is 5.1)
Thoughts? Should/Can I get that cap lower? I'm still waiting for other dealers to email me there quotes.
A couple questions: Do you want those options or on they already on the car? The $390 seems a little high. I recently leased an EXL V6 (MSRP of 29995), and monthly payments came out to $310 (all included, tax 5%). So I think you can do better. Did you get quotes from several dealers? Also if you do want those options negotiated the price down dont pay MSRP for the options. Good luck with the lease.
hi, i saw a newspaper ad for a accord se 4cyl auto for $239 a month-just pay ttl and doc fees and 1st payment-no security deposit. grand honda in elmhurst,il
I'd like to get my hands on a standard Honda Lease contract before I go to the dealership to make a deal. I figure this would let me get familiar with the fine print, make sure I understand everything, etc.
Do you know if it's available anywhere online? Are Honda's leases generally fair in terms of the fine print (financial specifics aside)?
Don't know whether a copy is available online. However, in looking over mine I can say there's no fine print that raised a red flag - seems essentially fair and pretty straightforward and easy to understand. (BTW, my agreement is for California.)
I think the most important thing going in to make a deal is to really understand the various standard lease terms (cap cost, residual, money factor, etc.) and then understand that everything starts with the selling price you negotiate. After that it's essentially filling in numbers in a formula to come up with your monthly payment. I'd recommend making up a couple of worksheets in advance with hypothetical selling prices - then compute your monthly payment by filling in money factor, residual, etc.
This will be to your benefit in at least two ways:
You'll understand the terms and be familiar with working with them, so you can accurately calculate your payment and therefore it will be fairly easy to catch the dealer if he's adding in bogus fees or playing with the numbers in other ways. Once you agree on a deal you can run your own numbers and use those as a check against the numbers the dealer fills in on your Honda Finance lease agreement - guards against "mistakes", unintentional or not.
It is all standard stuff, nothing to worry about. If you are that worried, call the F&I person at your Honda dealership and ask them to fax you a blank contract (both sides) for you to study.
As was mentioned, the key is to be able to compute the lease math for yourself. I use a Palm app called LeasIt! so I can put in numerous deals and change the numbers on the fly. I don't sign anything until I see where all the money goes - every penny.
So the contract will not mess you up, but the numbers the dealer puts on it might. The dealer can't change the residual, but they can add stuff on top of the price you negotiate that you don't plan on. You should also verse yourself on the local sales tax laws and rates as they apply to a lease - ditto local tag and title fees.
One thing to keep in mind, no where on the lease contract will the money factor appear - it just does not. Using a lease calc there will be only one MF that will solve for the proper payment. So if you are expecting a certain factor, you have to know the payment that should result. Then the lease contract will show the same payment.
I can't figure it out. I was given a car quote of $20400 (SE V6) and was told my lease payments would be $388-$398 a month for 24 months/12k miles not a penny less. I'm started to get frustrated with the process.
24 months is a short lease and NORMALLY is not as attractive a deal as a 36 month lease. In recent months Honda had a high residual and the same money factor for the 24 month as the 36. The result was you could lease for 24 for the same or less than 36.
The 24 month residual dropped to a more normal number, so I am not sure you can get a sweet 24 month lease now. I would get a 36/36k quote and see how that stacks up.
Invoice is $21,754 for an SE V6 w/auto, so your $20,400 sounds way too low (but a steal if you could get that price).
Other things that could cause a high payment:
The lease specials and stated lease money factors are for top tier applications, if you auto-enhanced FICO is under 720 or so then you may be getting a higher rate.
Your dealer could be jacking up the rate for more profit.
Your dealer could be adding a bunch of junk onto the lease - fees packages, options, etc.
You need to get the price firmed up and get the details for the lease to see if it is just the 24 month is not attractive or the dealer is messing you up.
I was given a 36 month/36k quote of $322. That's still $120 more a month than gpsac (msg #1214) was quoted with 3k miles less per year. The price is correct ($3500 off MSRP) and I have a score above 720. Can the residual make that much of a difference in 1 month? :confuse: I've purchased my last few vehicles so I'm not all that familiar with leasing.
I'll see if they will send me a list of fees and other add ons. Thank you.
When I approached my first Honda dealer last month about a lease . . . the figures he gave me were way out of line - because he wasn't even using the Honda lease special, but some other high-profit-to-him leasing source!
So - it's important to get all the numbers from your dealer. Residual, money factor, dealer fees. With the numbers at hand you should be able to calculate your lease payment, to the penny! There's no reason to sign a lease until - as Dennis has pointed out in another post - you understand where every dollar is going.
1. you live in a state where on a lease you only pay tax on actual down payment (cap reduction) and monthly payment. 2. and SE V6 MF is .00072 and residual 64%. 3. and your selling price is 20400 (including any dealer fees). 4. and your credit qualifies you for the special leases.
I come up with the following for 24/15k on the SE V6
20400 + 595 Honda acq fee =20995 payment should be 239 + tax
last month these numbers would have given you a payment of 195 +tax for 24/15k (MF .0009 res. 69%)
Does your payment quote include taxes? If so, at what rate?
What amount is due at signing? If they figured you a "sign and drive" lease then the payment goes up.
Ask them for the MF on the lease as well - and as was suggested make sure they are giving you the Honda lease deal and not a 3rd party bank's deal. They normally use an "auto-enhanced" FICO score - so if you have a strong score but little or no recent auto credit history, you score to them could be lower. On the flip side, if you have several paid in full car loans or lease in your recent history with no lates, then could push up a lower score high enough to get the top tier rate.
For states like mine that charge tax on the monthly payment, you would normally only talk about or quote the payment without the tax (since others could then add the tax for themselves). Here, a $322 payment that included taxes would net out to a payment of $300.93 - so that a good bit of difference.
Another way to look at it, the national lease special (advertised) is on the V-6 EX-L. If we look at those numbers - "$279.00 per month for 36 months. $2,374.00 total due at signing" we end up with a net cap of $24,675.54 a residual of $15,677.20 and a MF of 0.00072. The money due at signing breaks down into $1,500 cap cost, $279 first month, and $595 lease acq fee. This puts the selling price of the Accord at $26,175.54 Invoice is $25,414, which should be your price. So if we take that price and the other $738.46 out of pocket and the $595 acq fee and roll it into the lease we get a cap cost of $26,009. Plugging that back into the lease calc shows us a payment of $317.01 per month plus tax with just $317.01 + tax (and title and license fees) being due at signing. Even here in high tax land that is $339.20 per month including taxes with $339.20 (and tags/title) dues at signing - compared to the $322 quote you got for the SE.
So depending on your taxes, you could lease the V6 EX-L for about what your dealer is telling you the SE V-6 would cost you.
I was told the deal is through Honda Finance and they refused to give me the fees via e-mail. I'm not going to drive an hour just to get the fee breakdown. Thanks for the help.
Comments
No secret really. Just find the dealer willing to sell you the car for the lowest price. The SE V6 has an MSRP of 24,845. Invoice of 21,755. Basically got it for 20,200 or roughly 1,500 below invoice.
Between the four area dealers there were about 40 SE V6's in stock + who knows how many in transit. At first they were giving me prices around 21,000+, but one of the salesman worked his boss a bit harder and got a better price.
When I finally agreed on a price (through email) I made an appointment and honestly was expecting a payment of 205 + tax, however they made a mistake by residualizing unqualified options(or lied about it afterward) and the payment was only 185 + tax. Of course I didn't argue that the payment was too low.
i got mine the last weekend of April and the SE V6 seems to have taken a bigger May residual adjustment (69 down to 64%) than the other models so the payment this month is about $25 higher. Although in turn that $25 also gives you a lower residual and better chance for some equity after 2 years.
My advice would be to not go in until someone agrees via email on a price (including dealer fee) that will get the payment you want. Don't be shy about emailing back a price you want to pay. Know the residual %'s, money rates and invoice for the model you want so you can calculate it yourself.
I have not seen that down in Los Angeles, but then again I might not be asking the right questions.
If I recall correctly, the first number column is the selling price. Second the "out the door" price and third is the forum post number so you can find and view it.
As you can see there are some who have gotten better deals on the SE V6 than I did. Even if you're looking for an EX this gives you a general idea of the deals which can be had.
Accord LX $16,957 $18,000 14493
Accord LX XXXXXX $18,000 14571
Accord LX $18,195 XXXXXX 14231
Accord LX XXXXXX $18,500 14313
Accord SE XXXXXX $19,500 14447
Accord SE $18,685 $19,950 14411
Accord SE XXXXXX $20,000 14448
Accord SE $18,592 $20,000 14301
Accord SE $18,795 XXXXXX 14418
Accord SE $18,840 XXXXXX 14484
Accord SE $18,973 $20,200 14326
Accord SE $19,000 XXXXXX 14223
Accord SE $19,146 $20,441 14293
Accord SE $19,294 $21,226 14568
Accord SE V6 $19,759 $21,700 14224
Accord SE V6 $19,789 XXXXXX 14245
Accord SE V6 $20,300 XXXXXX 14260
Accord SE V6 $20,500 XXXXXX 14585
Accord SE V6 $20,533 XXXXXX 14602
Accord SE V6 $20,903 $22,260 14219
A dealer gives me this information.. Selling price of 22000, MSRP which includes destination and handling of 25645, money factor of .00078 and residual of 16412.
I plug these numbers into my calculations and with the 7% tax in my state, I come up with a payment of 280 even per month. The dealers are coming up with monthly payments well above 300.
Why is this?? How can there be such a big difference,. Do they actually calculate the payments in a different way?? I thought if you had the 4 pertinent pieces of information you should be able to calculate the payment and make a deal.
Did you take into account the $595 "acqusition fee" this is in addition to the $595 destination fee. I was not aware of both and someone else on the forum confirmed that for me. (there is no acq. fee for a buy only for a lease).
Good luck with the car. (I recently leased a EX-l V6 w/o NAV and I love it!)
But if I have to add the aquisition fee of 595 into the lease payment that definitely changes the payment. I come up with a payment of 310 with tax.. Is this correct. Does this seem like a fair deal?
Thanks for help!!!
i was running your numbers and I have a couple questions:
1. Is your tax calculated per monthly payment or do you pay the whole thing up front? (My state you pay it all up front so that for you in a 24 month lease would be $64 per month. 2. What is the total you will pay when you pick up the car? (the minimum is the first months payment, if you want you can roll everything else into the monthly payment, obviously if you pay more up front your payment will decrease. )
The tax is calculated monthly. I have been adding 7% to whatever payment i calculate to come up with the Total monthly payment.
My plan was to pay aquisition(595), first months, Mv fees which is about 190 and possibly the docimentaion fee of 200.
There are numerous examples on this board of negotiated sale prices at $1500-$2000 under invoice. My question is this: can I still reasonably expect to get a deal at $1500-$2000 under invoice AND get the subvented money-factor lease rates? Anyone on this board been able to do this?
I'm looking at either leasing two SEi4AT's or two EXi4ATw/NAV (possibly EX-L's, depending on the deals I can get and supply/demand for various models).
Also, for e-mail inquiries to dealers, have you used the Edmunds format or created your own? Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated!
Since the experts advise paying as little as possible (or practical) upfront on a lease, it makes sense to add the acquistion fee into the cap cost. Theoretically, you could roll registration fees and even your first month's payment into the lease - but it's kind of "standard" to pay those upfront, and makes calculations very straightforward.
I calculate your monthly payment at $308 (and a few pennies) which includes the 7% tax.
Also, any advice on email inquiries to dealers?
I've seen a number of posts in the Prices Paid forum where someone has had good success with the Edmunds inquiries. This should give you a good starting point for negotiation. (In the comments section you could state you're going to be leasing, if you want to avoid the "oh, we can't do that price on a lease".)
An alternate approach (also successfully used on these forums) would be to email a number of dealers with your specific proposal - selling price, cap cost, money factor, residual, etc. and a correctly calculated lease payment. State that you're ready to do this deal today (or whatever time frame you want to specify), all you need from them is yes or no. (If you take this approach you need to spell out dealer document fees or state the selling price includes all dealer fees. You want to guard against a low quote that's sabotaged by inflated dealer fees.)
Personally, I don't think you need to get into "incentive specifics" with a dealer. You can demonstrate you know what you're doing in other ways. And having competitive quotes in hand, and being willing to walk away, are time-tested and effective in ultimately arriving at a price you're happy with.
Finally, in working with several dealers last month to hammer out an acceptable lease - I found some were easy to deal with and one was absolutely impossible. I'd have been very discouraged - with a totally inaccurate read on the marketplace - if I'd not gone beyond that one impossible dealer.Good luck!
Thanks for your help. I do come up with the same monthly number.
Now, does this seem like a fair deal on this particular vehicle. I havent had time to read through the posts and see what other are paying.
Has anyone been able to use these lease specials for models not specifically named in the "lease details" by AHFC? IOW, has anyone been able to get AHFC preferred lease rates for models that are close but not quite the same as their specifications?
you are looking at a 24mo. 15k lease correct? Did the $22000 include destination? If it does I am calculating $280 a month including tax, if you pay acq fee, MVA fees up front. If it does not include destination I am calcualting $306. I got my EX-L V6 lease for $1700 under invoice at the end of April so the deals are out there.
Seems fair to me. The $22,000 price is $1300 under invoice and is right in line with a quote I got from a reasonable dealer a couple of weeks ago. As mentioned previously, the key at this point is to make sure the dealer doesn't try to pad his profit with inflated "fees". In the SF Bay Area (which is the only area I have personal knowldege of) dealer document fees run about $55.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm looking to lease an SE i4 AT Sedan or EX-L i4 AT Sedan with Navi. Neither of the special lease deals on the AHFC website are targeted at these models (they're for LX i4 AT Sedans and EX-L V6 AT Sedans without Navi--so I'm looking at different model numbers than specified in their promos), but in preliminary negotiations with one local Honda dealer, it appears that the preferred MF rates ARE available for other models. However, it does appear that Honda is subventing the residuals to varying degrees across their model lines. For example, the residuals cited in the AHFC promo for 12K/24 mo leases for the LX and the EX-l are .58 and .56 respectively, each of which are significantly higher than Black Book numbers.
This differs from the residuals quoted to me by the sales manager at the local dealer for the models I'm looking at; he quoted residuals of .55 for both the SE i4 AT Sedan and the EX-L i4 AT Sedan with Navi for the same lease terms.
Additionally, the MF rates are slightly different for these two promotions; the MF rate for 12K/24 mo leases on the LX is .00078 and .0007199 on the EX-L. The MF rates the local dealer quoted me are .00078 for both the models I'm wanting to lease (or at least that's the MF rate he gave me--obviously the deal has to be approved by AHFC before it's finalized).
Since I'm looking at different models and different lease terms than the promos detail, I'm hoping for a little help. If anyone has access to the AHFC guidelines, can you please let me know the following:
1. Are preferred MF rates and "pumped up" residuals also available for SE i4 AT Sedans and/or EX-L i4 AT Sedans with Navi?
2. If so, what are the residuals for each of these models for 12/24, 15/24, 12/36 and 15/36? (My dealer tells me they are .64, .63, .55 and .53 respectively for both models)
3. Also, if the preferred lease terms are available for the above models, what are the money factors for each?
Sorry to be so long-winded, but don't know how to ask in simpler terms. Thanks in advance for any help available!
I have not seen that down in Los Angeles, but then again I might not be asking the right questions.
Or, as I mentioned before, you are not living the right part of the country
I plugged in a couple of LA ZIP codes into the Edmunds incentive page
http://www.edmunds.com/incentives/step1.jsp
and nothing comes up for dealer money. Plug in a lot of other ZIP codes and $750 comes up.
If the dealers in your area are not getting $750 per Accord in dealer money then they will NOT be able to sell you a car as cheap as what folks are posting here.
If you are going to lease with a cheap least deal, it does not matter (since the cheap lease and dealer money can't be combined), but if you are going to buy then you just have to pay more.
Dennis
Correct, and if you get really cheap money (under 2% effective rate on these deals) you can roll everything into the lease - acq fee, tags, title, taxes, etc - where else you going to get < 2% charge for borrowing money?
Be sure to check with the F&I guy if they are requiring a security desposit or not. If they are, you can get them to raise the MF by 0.0001 and they will waive the deposit. In most cases, if you compare the payment with the deposit rolled in (at a lower rate) with the deposit waived (at a slightly higher rate) the higher rate is normally cheaper per month. You should always have access to a lease calc and run the numbers for yourself and decide.
Dennis
Since I'm looking at different models and different lease terms than the promos detail, I'm hoping for a little help. If anyone has access to the AHFC guidelines, can you please let me know the following:
1. Are preferred MF rates and "pumped up" residuals also available for SE i4 AT Sedans and/or EX-L i4 AT Sedans with Navi?
2. If so, what are the residuals for each of these models for 12/24, 15/24, 12/36 and 15/36? (My dealer tells me they are .64, .63, .55 and .53 respectively for both models)
3. Also, if the preferred lease terms are available for the above models, what are the money factors for each?
1. I think you answered your own question - the dealer told you 0.00078 on the models you want to lease - that is a discounted rate. Take MF x 2400 to get effective percentage rate - so 0.00078 X 2400 = 1.872% . Note that this would be the tier 1 rate without dealer markup. Someone with a auto-enhanced FICO under 710 would pay more. Someone leasing from a dealer who marks up the rate (for additional profit - rare in a Honda dealer) would charge more. The difference between the 0.0007199 (1.72%) and 0.000780 are very small < $2 a month difference on a $20k lease deal. So it sounds like ALL the lease money is way below "market value".
2. The residual is set by the lease bank and can't be changed by the dealer, so a quick call to the F&I guy who gave you the lease rates should answer that question. The LX looks to be 66% (24 mo) and 58% (36 mo) for 12k/yr leases, 64% and 54% for 15k/yr leases.
3. Same question as #1, isn't it?
Dennis
Residual value is $12135.20
Acquisition fee 595. so the gross capitalized cost is 19949
I am wondering if this is actually a good deal. My credit score is 720 with little history.
I really appreciate your help.
got mine at coggin. The actual selling price was 20750 (including dealer fee) + 595 acquisition, however they residualized 1800 worth of dealer added options (which apparently ? they should not have) although they forgot to residualize the 900 factory discount. By doing this it reduced the payment to where if calculated correctly would have backed out to a selling price of approximately 20200.
MSRP of 23945 is after the 900 discount on the sticker. Residual should be calculated from 24845.
If your 20400 includes the typical 599 dealer (doc) fee, I'd say that you've got yourself a pretty good deal.
1. MSRP 27,645
2. CAP cost 25,509
3. Lease Term (months) and Annual Mileage Limit (miles per year) 36/45,000
4. Money Factor .00078
5. Residual 14,651.85
6. Monthly Payment $390 including tax (my tax is 5.1)
Thoughts?
Should/Can I get that cap lower?
I'm still waiting for other dealers to email me there quotes.
1. SS6 - TR1 16" Alloy Wheels - $924
2. Fog Lights - $335
3. Splash Guards - $99
Total $1358
Looking at posts 14564, 14584 I'm still paying a little more on the base than needed. I'll try to reduce it.
A couple questions:
Do you want those options or on they already on the car?
The $390 seems a little high. I recently leased an EXL V6 (MSRP of 29995), and monthly payments came out to $310 (all included, tax 5%). So I think you can do better. Did you get quotes from several dealers? Also if you do want those options negotiated the price down dont pay MSRP for the options. Good luck with the lease.
I'm trying to get more quotes but I'm not getting too many, but many of my local dealers don't have an I4 with nav in stock.
I'll keep working on this.
Thanks!
Also, what is the residual value for this vehicle (24/12 and 36/12)?
TIA
Do you know if it's available anywhere online? Are Honda's leases generally fair in terms of the fine print (financial specifics aside)?
I think the most important thing going in to make a deal is to really understand the various standard lease terms (cap cost, residual, money factor, etc.) and then understand that everything starts with the selling price you negotiate. After that it's essentially filling in numbers in a formula to come up with your monthly payment. I'd recommend making up a couple of worksheets in advance with hypothetical selling prices - then compute your monthly payment by filling in money factor, residual, etc.
This will be to your benefit in at least two ways:
You'll understand the terms and be familiar with working with them, so you can accurately calculate your payment and therefore it will be fairly easy to catch the dealer if he's adding in bogus fees or playing with the numbers in other ways. Once you agree on a deal you can run your own numbers and use those as a check against the numbers the dealer fills in on your Honda Finance lease agreement - guards against "mistakes", unintentional or not.
As was mentioned, the key is to be able to compute the lease math for yourself. I use a Palm app called LeasIt! so I can put in numerous deals and change the numbers on the fly. I don't sign anything until I see where all the money goes - every penny.
So the contract will not mess you up, but the numbers the dealer puts on it might. The dealer can't change the residual, but they can add stuff on top of the price you negotiate that you don't plan on. You should also verse yourself on the local sales tax laws and rates as they apply to a lease - ditto local tag and title fees.
One thing to keep in mind, no where on the lease contract will the money factor appear - it just does not. Using a lease calc there will be only one MF that will solve for the proper payment. So if you are expecting a certain factor, you have to know the payment that should result. Then the lease contract will show the same payment.
Dennis
The 24 month residual dropped to a more normal number, so I am not sure you can get a sweet 24 month lease now. I would get a 36/36k quote and see how that stacks up.
Invoice is $21,754 for an SE V6 w/auto, so your $20,400 sounds way too low (but a steal if you could get that price).
Other things that could cause a high payment:
The lease specials and stated lease money factors are for top tier applications, if you auto-enhanced FICO is under 720 or so then you may be getting a higher rate.
Your dealer could be jacking up the rate for more profit.
Your dealer could be adding a bunch of junk onto the lease - fees packages, options, etc.
You need to get the price firmed up and get the details for the lease to see if it is just the 24 month is not attractive or the dealer is messing you up.
Dennis
I was given a 36 month/36k quote of $322. That's still $120 more a month than gpsac (msg #1214) was quoted with 3k miles less per year. The price is correct ($3500 off MSRP) and I have a score above 720. Can the residual make that much of a difference in 1 month? :confuse: I've purchased my last few vehicles so I'm not all that familiar with leasing.
I'll see if they will send me a list of fees and other add ons. Thank you.
So - it's important to get all the numbers from your dealer. Residual, money factor, dealer fees. With the numbers at hand you should be able to calculate your lease payment, to the penny! There's no reason to sign a lease until - as Dennis has pointed out in another post - you understand where every dollar is going.
1. you live in a state where on a lease you only pay tax on actual down payment (cap reduction) and monthly payment.
2. and SE V6 MF is .00072 and residual 64%.
3. and your selling price is 20400 (including any dealer fees).
4. and your credit qualifies you for the special leases.
I come up with the following for 24/15k on the SE V6
20400
+ 595 Honda acq fee
=20995
payment should be 239 + tax
last month these numbers would have given you a payment of 195 +tax for 24/15k (MF .0009 res. 69%)
What amount is due at signing? If they figured you a "sign and drive" lease then the payment goes up.
Ask them for the MF on the lease as well - and as was suggested make sure they are giving you the Honda lease deal and not a 3rd party bank's deal. They normally use an "auto-enhanced" FICO score - so if you have a strong score but little or no recent auto credit history, you score to them could be lower. On the flip side, if you have several paid in full car loans or lease in your recent history with no lates, then could push up a lower score high enough to get the top tier rate.
For states like mine that charge tax on the monthly payment, you would normally only talk about or quote the payment without the tax (since others could then add the tax for themselves). Here, a $322 payment that included taxes would net out to a payment of $300.93 - so that a good bit of difference.
Another way to look at it, the national lease special (advertised) is on the V-6 EX-L. If we look at those numbers - "$279.00 per month for 36 months. $2,374.00 total due at signing" we end up with a net cap of $24,675.54 a residual of $15,677.20 and a MF of 0.00072. The money due at signing breaks down into $1,500 cap cost, $279 first month, and $595 lease acq fee. This puts the selling price of the Accord at $26,175.54 Invoice is $25,414, which should be your price. So if we take that price and the other $738.46 out of pocket and the $595 acq fee and roll it into the lease we get a cap cost of $26,009. Plugging that back into the lease calc shows us a payment of $317.01 per month plus tax with just $317.01 + tax (and title and license fees) being due at signing. Even here in high tax land that is $339.20 per month including taxes with $339.20 (and tags/title) dues at signing - compared to the $322 quote you got for the SE.
So depending on your taxes, you could lease the V6 EX-L for about what your dealer is telling you the SE V-6 would cost you.
Dennis
SE V6 = .134 which I assumed was .00134 and residual is 64%.
I didn't plan on putting any money down except for first payment. The $322 includes tax.