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Comments
I do not believe or expect this will be as reliable as my Honda CRV, Toyota 4Runner, or Lexus RX330. However, it is *far* more fun to drive, and I don't care about resale value for this car - plan on keeping it (I had my 1996 Impala SS until 2003, admittedly not as a daily driver, though).
Don't even bother looking at one with a sunroof. Dismal stupid lack of headroom. Really upsets me - I'd like to own a sunroof someday. And what's worse is they seem to tie sunroofs in with other options I'd like.
It's amazing the difference between how this drives and how a standard TB drives. Flat in corners, accurate steering, good placement, and the ride isn't punishing given the performance.
I will say that rear seat room is dismal. They should have shifted the rear seats back 6 inches and stole from the cargo area (which is more than ample).
Keep in mind GM incentives (Bleeding Red Tag prices) end January 3rd - I haven't heard what's after that, although we're too hooked on incentives now to go back, IMHO.
But I'm planning on sending the exhausts out to the sides (behind rear wheels), and having the tow-hook come out the middle cut-out. It makes more sense, and I really don't care much for the center exhaust look - that's more for corvettes, Ferrar, and Lambos
Thanks
Didn't see anything on the site, but sent them a email.
If not, I've already been communicating with Flowmaster to encourage them to specially make an SRT-8 50 series muffler. I've always been a fan of the sound their stuff produces.
That being said, I have a 2WD TBSS - because sometimes burnouts are just plain fun.
The TBSS was fast before, but it's unbelievable now. Everyone who's run at drag strips before and after are getting a solid .5 off their 1/4 miles (running consistent 13.5's) with this tune. Can't recommend it enough - even better gas mileage!
Engine for Sure.(TB SS) My 6.1 Hemi has a lot left in it too, at least 600 hp with the right tune. The drive train will take a lot punishment and no problems with the 6.1 Hemi yet. A local man runs his 300C SRT-8 all the time and runs side by side with a C6 Vette auto. Stock engine just removes some fuses and runs 13.4 ET (best) He runs rear DRs and just smokes the tires before a run. Both Great Vehicles in my Book and has a lot of potential left in them. I would love to see the LS-7 Engine installed in the TB. Good Racing. Gene
The SRT is truly the best pick here. It is a blazingly quick vehicle and has the utility to spare(not towing tho). If you're into towing and cargo cap., then by all means the SS is a wonderful ride to have. But if you have gas in your blood and crave max velocity, the SRT is the best way to go, especially if you can get one at a decent price(closest to MSRP as possible).
There's no separate make/model category for the Turbo, so I guess we can tolerate some regular Cayenne posts as well, lol.
Steve, Host
Thanks!
BUT, for all out performance(which is what it's made for), no other SUV can touch the SRT. It scorches all of them, from a 32k TB SS to a $112k Cayenne Turbo S. Congrats on the new SS tho.
It corners better(.88g v. .85)
0-60(4.5 secs v. 4.8)
rolling start, 5-60(4.9 v. 5.2)
1/4 mile(12.8 secs v. 13.2 or .4, depending on what you've read)
braking(117ft. v. 128ft(blame the blunt weight)
And need a discuss price. But I do have to one up the Porsche, it's resale value is like a vault, it will probably resale close to what it costs new.
But pound for pound, the SRT is just the better all around performer of SUV's. Yes the Porsche has a higher top speed(a whopping 12 miles), but you try maintaining a 5500 pound SUV at those speed, yes even a Porsche. And at it's $112k price point, I can buy 2 3/4 SRT's for it's price of one.
As for the interior, the Jeep is plain as it gets(not horribly so, not like the TB's for instance). But apart from the superb leather seats, the Porsche's interior is just pathetic for it's asking price. Hard plastics abound give the impression of a much cheaper vehicle, much like the spartan interiors of the Porsche cars.
Towing, yes the Jeep's modified suspension cut back towing, and the Porsche tows a healthy 7700 pounds(Something a 330-hp HEMI JGC can do without the turbo's or the 520 hp), but I betcha didn't know the Jeep can carry more on the inside. The Porsche apears big, but the miniscule interior reveals the truth.
Yes for status, the Porsche will be the way to go. But for all-american muscle that crushes Germany's finest(or Austria's), the SRT is it.
BTW: Since when has a mileage estimate of 12/15(Porsche) v. 13/17 been "better". Neither of these vehicles get nowhere close to decent mileage, so for a comparison, I'd probably left that one out.
http://www.chryslerforum.com/m_3429/tm.htm
I don't know how many sports cars you've looked at, but generally they all have more simple interior designs. The point is that you should pay attention to driving without being distracted by all of the "noise" in lesser car interiors. Look, I know this discussion stirs the pot in terms of German vs. American car design and the whole status thing. The Jeep is an impressive car, I admit that, but it doesn't crush the Cayenne by any means. Yes, it cost less and there are reasons for that (beyond the badge). The fact is though, there aren't likely to be many people that cross-shop these two vehicles. Oh, and you mentioned holding it's value. Now why do you think the Porsche holds it's value much better? Why do you think it offers a 4 year/50,000 mile warranty while the Jeep only offers 3/38K? DId you see that Porsche's just got rated the highest initial quality by JD Powers (Jeep was at 32 well below the industry average)? Did you know that Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world?
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=109458/pageNumber=1?s- ynpartner=edmunds&pageurl=www.edmunds.com/new/2006/porsche/cayenne/100684771/roa- dtestarticle.html&articleId=109458
Most of the stats I got on the Porsche came from their own website and several European mags, you know the unbiased ones.
Both of these vehicles have hugely conservatively rated numbers, but judging from a person who actually owns one(do you own a Turbo S, or any Cayenne for that matter?), I know the Jeep has the upper hand on most numbers. Call it as you may, the Turbo S is a very nice piece of machinery. And speaking of JDP, isn't the Cayenne the model that dragged Porsche down last year? And remember, this was an IQS study, lets see what happens when those diffs pop loose as they're doing VW Touaregs as of know.
Did you mention noise? I'm sorry that I enjoy the hearing the roar of my engine and note the gear whine the S puts out(oh that's excuseable because it's an off-roader). You know some people like that(ie: most American gearheads.)
And I maintain my point. The interior is unbecoming of a $112k car. My Audi A8 W-12 may have some leather hides left over so that you can cover those plastic armrest/door covers. (And they've bought into the VW/Audi family, wonder if they'll ask for help on the interiors?) Yes Porsche is the most profitable because they're still classified as a "speciallty" maker, not full-line. Yes the Porsche is great off-road, but will it pass a lesser(only $35k) JGC Quadra-Drive II-equipped? NAH. Remember, Jeep is still the only maker to still allow only one wheel to spin for 100% of power if all others are uncapable. Maybe the Turbo S is better in Dubai in the sand dunes, WHOOPS!! Didn't the Turbo S get stuck there in the sand?
Currently, what is Porsche's day-in/day-out availablity on the Cayenne line? 8 days. SRT? - I'll let you guess it.
I don't have to prove to anyone that the Jeep is tops. The Cayenne is what it is, a bloated, cramped, heavy,(IMO, not the best looker around), but very fast and very $$$ vehicle.
BTW: with my Brembo brake upgrade, my SRT stops in 105ft., better than say, a 911(S,4S,Turbo,GT3)/Cayman/Boxster(S), oh yeah, Cayenne(all models). And I didn't "discount" the top-speeds, but really, a 5500 pound SUV going 168 mph safely, comfortably. Highly doubtful. DCX was smart at giving the SRT a 155 mph limiter, but believe me, It will go much further. The only demerit I can see with my SRT is that it's in need of a 6th gear, but other than that, it's still tops.
Hilarious video for your weekend:
dugg's CarSpace (go to the bottom of the page)
Steve, Host
(1) Rich stated "I find it ridiculous we feel need to name engines here"
The 6.1 isn't named "Hemi", it is a hemi, it's also referred to as a V8, does that offend you as well?. Do you find it ridiculous that Porsche refers to the engine in the Cay TT as a "Turbo"? I bet not since it is a turbo.
(2) Rich stated "Frankly the Hemi is a dinosaur compared to Porsche's engines."
The 6.1 HEMI uses the latest technological advances coupled with proven mechanical simplicity to accomplish performance comparable to the best Europe or Asia has to offer. Yes, it's displacement is greater than Porsches fabulous 4.5 TT, but it requires far less mechanical complexity & expense to achieve the same results. To refer to the 6.1 as a dinosaur is "EuroSnobbery". DCX has chosen a different mechanical direction for the 6.1 but is no less technologically advanced.
PS: I'm a Poschephile myself, currently owning two, a Boxster & a 911 and feel they possess possibly the finest automotive engineering division on the planet. I do however feel they dropped the ball with the Cayenne. To get back in the game Porsche needs to develop an On-Road Cay TT that discards the "pork" added to the Cayenne platform necessary for off-roading that 99.9% of Cayenne's will never be exposed to. If they did this it would: (A) drop 4-500 lb's, (B) still be goofy looking, (C) reduce the price a few $K, and (D) perform as many of the Porsche faithful hoped it would to begin with.
Lots of people hashed it out in the Hemi's: any make, any size....What do you think? discussion years ago.
Steve, Host
That being the case, I know an awesome eye doc who can give them some corrective lenses as they are in desperate need of them. I also have to disagree sharply about the notion that most people will take the style of the Cayenne over the SRT. I'm a member of many clubs, both European and domestic and most people often gripe over the exaggeration of the Cayenne style(nothing like the sleek 911, IMO).
Facts? I addressed your assumption of facts(or lack thereof). You haven't addressed any of mine. Like the Turbo S getting stuck as you bill it as a true "off-roading on-roader". I have more if you need them...
BTW: On naming the engines, why is it that Porsche still says in some of it's marketing campaigns that they're the "only carmaker that has hi-po boxer engines", which really isn't the case as the 300-hp WRX Sti is faster 0-60 than a 911(base)?
1. A real head-turner. My college-age daughter described it as "bling-ghetto" and said that was a compliment.
2. The exhaust note is perfect, deep & throaty without droning.
3. The massive torque, combined with the AWD & 5spdAT, is incredible! The drivetrain seems always up on its toes, even compared to my supercharged '03 SVT Cobra and turboed Typhoon.
4. The ride/handling tradeoff is right on the edge. On bad pavement it gives you second thoughts, but on on-ramps its all smiles!
5. This feels like a beast. It feels serious, heavy and brute quick, an unusual combination.
TBSS:
1. Handsome, if unremarkable, appearance. My daughter described it as "easily mistaken for just any other SUV." De-badge it and it would make a great "sleeper!"
2. Strong engine crippled by average transmission. Tranny often seemed confused and sluggish, making the vehicle seem less responsive. Reportedly an aftermarket reprogramming will minimize this some.
3. Felt larger but lighter than the SRT-8. I know it is not, but it felt that way IMHO.
4. Interior had lots of room, but style seemed to be aging & cluttered. Little to distinguish it.
5. Ride felt well controlled but rounded off, it handled broken pavement very well. Some body roll apparent around sharper curves.
6. Feels like a compromise vehicle. My daughter described it as "great if you want a big engine in an ordinary truck." I would not say that, but I think she is correct in ascertaining that it is a more balanced vehicle, good at a lot of things, but perhaps not excelling at any one thing. Again, just one person's opinion, about two great vehicles!
As for the Aerial Atom; now there is a bird of a completely different feather. Totally mental. Just shows what CAN be done with little money and a lot of ingenuity. As an every day driver ? er, no thank you.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0