It really depends on how low the tire pressure was. If it was near 0 then I would agree but if he had some pressure it may not be damaged. It does appear to be very convenient though that most people that are getting their RFTs repaired have the tire insurance while those with out the insurance are told they must buy new tires!
I had the same problem that I keep reading about through out many of the posts here. Very loud road noise and my tires wearing out at around 15000 miles. I worked with my BMW dealer to get one tire replaced but that still left me with three that needed replacing. I'm now working with Bridgestone directly. They have told me that they are unaware of any problems with the BMW tires (I doubt that!) and there is no defect. I explained to the lady that I spoke to that many of us were having issues and gave her the link to this website so she could see for herself. She is still saying that the tires are not defective so I thought I we could all start calling her and letting her know that the product is defective it may help things along. Her name is Nora Davis and she is in the legal department for Bridgestone Firestone. Since I can't give out the number (the rules of this website) I would suggest everyone look up the information online or file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau since that is how I got in contact with her in the first place.
I think we can make a difference if we all call and let them know that we will not accept their defective products! This is not the first issue with Bridgestone Firestone they need to learn their lesson and quit putting out defective products!
Also, can someone recommend a cheap set of wheels and appropriate size of tire that would be equivalent to the 18s so that I don't have to have the speedometer recalibrated? Is it smart to run 17s with such large sidewalls, or would it be better for me to just buy 18" snow tires? And finally, should I get a steel mini-spare wheel and tire and throw it in the trunk? Will me 328xi come with a jack, or will I need one of those as well?
I am considering the same thing. Tirerack or another site can easily recommend the tire size you need to match the 18's you already have. I check with BMW and they said that the smallest you can go is 17 inch. I wanted to use 16 inch since you have more tire and price selection. It appears the 16 inch will not work due to the size of the rotor and caliper.
The cheapest 17 inch rims I found was $125 but most seem to run around $199. You can find a few choices in 17 inch all season tires for under $200, however, 18 inch all seasons are over $200. I would stay with the Bridgestone, just not the RFT. I have bridgestones on my other cars and they have been holding up well. Best Tires I have owned so far.
Thank you very much for your suggestion....I have an appointment for changing my EL42's in 2 weeks with the Conti's at my local dealer, but first he needs to corroborate that there is tire noise!
While I cannot verify that requirement, there is a fairly simple solution to the problem. Simply buy a new set of rubber for your car when your worst factory RFT has 5mm of tread depth left, then keep the OEM tires and have them remounted just prior to lease end.
The plan was to put Michelin RFT's on my car, but come to find out BMW doesn't warranty or provide a tire other than OEMs to the dealership, which means either the Bridgestones or Continentals. So I am stuck with the crappy Bridgestones, at least new, until BMW recalls them.
My service manager was misinformed. I guess they'll see me again in about 11,000 miles.
How about buying a nice set of GFTs and running with them until the end of your lease and then remount the OEM RFTs? That way you can drive on the rubber of your choice and still return your car with the factory rubber.
That would be a good idea, except that I have no spare, and no jack, etc. And BMW paid for what is now a new set of the Bridgestones. Do I really want to spend a good amount of money for 5 new nice GFTs for a lease car?
I also would have the tire manufacturer's warranty on them, but not from BMW. And I bought the road hazard insurance when I signed the lease, that would probably be voided.
I'm not happy at all, but until BMW addresses the problem, what can I do?
I received a free set of Bridgestones just like you did. I am in the same Boat. Where have you or anyone heard of a recall by BMW and a new set of another brand of tires. Please direct me to the source of information. Owner6
My dealer advised they will change my B.S. EL42's (4 @ 225 45 17's - 330xi)to the Continentals. I just told them this week I was experiencing noise. They said they will verify this and then change the tires. I did not ask for any special brand. They told me the Conti's were quite RFT's.
I heard from my Service Manager, and he swears the recall is in the works. He even heard a rumor they were designing a new tire for the 3 series.
But he said that basically the Bridgestones and Continentals are both crap, both with the noise and wear problems. No word as to what brand they will choose.
A fourth option would be to replace all tires with non RFT tires. By a Conti mobility kit from Tirerack.com and go with the Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S from Tirerack or Discount Tire. The reviews on this Michelin are super!
I am in the same boat as you are. I hate my Bridgestone as they are extremely noisy and hydroplane badly. I have a nail in the side wall and refuse to buy another EL42 tire. I am also checking out the Conti ProContact SSR. I drove an E90 with these tires and they seemed alot quieter than the Bridgestone El42s.
I have a 2006 BMW 325i and these Bridgestones are horrible. I am looking to replace them with the Conti ProContact SSR but I can't find these tires anyway. Tire Rack has them backordered for 8 weeks at least. I have called belle tire and discount tire and they tell me they have never heard of them. Do they still make them and if they do why can't I find them anywhere.
About 17K of it on original Bridgestone RFT, other 7K on the winterforce last winter. I am back on Winterforce this weeekend.
First 10K on original RFT was smooth, incredibly smooth. Last 7K very rough, very rough. I didn't know it was tire. Took it to dealer last week since I couldn't stand the rough ride, thought something was not right, feared something in engine/drivetrain. No, the dealer said the tires were chopped up. After only 10-17K ? I didn't ride it hot rod or anything, only an occasional speeding on the freeway.
Dealer said still tread left, so bear with it until 30K, then change to new RFT's. Quote - Bridgestone $1150, Conti $800. Saw Conti on Tirerack for $104 a piece, + $100 for switching over, I am thinking may be Spring 08.
Blue, how is reg tire you mentioned. I don't mind. I can use one of the winters as spare in the trunk. What kind did you get.
Here's another thing. On Thu I got indication I have a flat. I checked pressure, it was near zero, but no indication of flat just looking at tire. I drove about 3 mi at 40MPH max to gas station, inflated to 35 psi, and drove back home. Next day 30 psi still left. That's when changed to the winter (a week too early on my schedule. Typically Thanksgiving weekend). Found a nail right in the center. Took to shop and patched it. It should last until next Thanksgiving, I hope.
Love the car though. No problem. Even the oil stays max after 9K. 6K more to go. Get 24-27 MPG on mixed driving (2:1 backroads:freeway). I may have gotten 32 on the freeway on a trip, don't remember.
Tire Rack has them backordered for 8 weeks at least.
I'll wager BMW is making a huge move on these to replace the EL42 B.S. tires...my dealer says they will replace EL42's on my car with Conti's...I assume the ProContact SSR but I will let everyone know.
I have just gotten off the phone with the rep at BMW NA and filed a formal complaint. I told him that I am extremely unhappy with the Bridgestone EL42 RFTs that came on my 2006 325xi. I told them that I have read on this forum that some owners are getting BMW to replace the tires by BMW's expense with ContiProContact SSRs.
We will see where this goes. "The wheel that squeaks the loudest get the most oil". I am retired and have the time to pursue this.
Save your time with BMW NA...it's like talking to a chair!
My dealer replaced the horrid EL-42's with Conti Pro Contact SSR's WITH NO HASSLE (at his expense, I presume). It's all in the dealer's hands. Appeal to the dealer... he wants your business. BMW doesn't give a damn.
I am retired as well....and it didn't require as much time to solve this as I alotted!
There is rumor that the 2007 3 series has a completely redesigned suspension which is part of the problem...thus the change in numbers(328, etc). I'll believe it when I see it.... also...supposedly a recall is coming on the RFT problem...I'll believe that when I see it as well.
I was going to purchase a #335i and will not until the RFT problems have been settled. I am sure that that Lexus is the beneficiary of the BMW RFT problems and if the problem is not settle soon I and many others will be buying Lexus IS350.
Thank God for that. Sometimes our loyalty to a brand is a direct result of the ego boosting satisfaction we receive by claiming that brand. We overlook the flaws that exist with that brand and those that market the brand to us. This is the case with so many BMW owners, but let's face it, the car is over-rated and the company is by far the least customer oriented automobile company that exists. Read the 535 posts prior to this one and think about what you spent $37-40,000 on. These posts say a lot about BMW's attitude and their lack of concern for BMW owners. We bought the Ultimate Driving Machine and ultimately we got shafted, lied to and sold down the river regarding this RFT issue.
Go onto the Lexus message boards and you will find them absolutely boring. No major problems or issues. No RFT issues (because they were smart enough to NOT equip their cars with RFT's). No major complaints about customer service and no dealer issues. No exciting exchange of rhetoric or rallying of the troops to fight the BMW establishment over RFT's. No being lied to. No confusion about what the right hand is doing. No run around from "Lexus NA". Boring, very boring.
Yeah......it still ain't a beemer......and I hope it never turns into one.
I lodged a formal complaint to BMW NA too. They gave me number to Bridgestone. I called Bridgestone, and they put me up with the local Firestone shop. I took the tires to the Firestone guy, and he said there is no manufacturing defect with the tires. The problem was me not rotating the tires more frequently. How frequently - every 3000 mi. At $60 to $80 each balancing & rotation, I think that is baloney. More business for the shops, and no answer to the short-lived tires.
>Go onto the Lexus message boards and you will find them absolutely boring. No major problems or issues. No RFT issues (because they were smart enough to NOT equip their cars with RFT's).
You apprently haven't been reading my posts on the 2006 GS300 board, and you're wrong about Lexus not using runflats. After 10,000 miles I switched my GS to "normal" tires because I had the same issues that BMW owners have had with them, although mine had Dunlops.
In one year of ownership, I've had my Lexus back to the dealer eight times to fix problems.
As far as not being lied to, well.... every time I brought mine in to fix problems that many GS owners were complaining about, I got the standard "This-is-the-first-time-I've-heard-about-that-problem" dealer response.
My experiences haven't been typical of Lexus owners, but to state that the boards don't contain any complaints, or that Lexus doesn't use run-flats, is incorrect.
RFL, I spoke to the dealer's SA and he told me that I had to file a formal complaint with BMW NA. Once this is done, the dealership is notified and some resolution will occur. How long do you think I should wait to hear back from the dealership?
The service dept has not looked at the problem so I suspect that I will need to take the car in for them to look at. I suspect that they will come up with line like "the tires need to be rotated" or "it is Bridgestone's problem".
We all know that BMW is responsible for choosing these tires and making a bad decision.
Your response from the dealer shows the different levels of service and uncoordinated resonse to this problem. If the dealer wants your return business, sending you to corporate IS NOT the way to do it.
You should contact BMWUSA and compleing about your dealer's lack of attentivnes to your concerns. They should replace the tires or loose you as a customer in the future.
Car makers almost always refer customers with problems with tires to the maker of the tire, even though the tiremaker co-developed the tire to the automaker's performance requirements. OE fitted tires are never "off the rack" tires, and yet the automaker warranties never covers tires - that's why you have the Bridgestone (or whatever) tire pamphlet in your glovebox along with your owner's manual.
Once at the tire store, the customer gets turned away because, probably, there ARE no defects in "materials or workmanship" - the only things the typical tire warranty covers. It was the car maker's development targets or the tire maker's construction or compound choices that determine the performance outcome in cases like this, yet no one seems to "own" the problem at this point.
So the customers get ping-ponged back and forth.
Eventually, if enough folks complain, the car maker might decide to redevelop a tire. I've seen it, and been involved in it, but it's a long process to redevelop a new tire and ramp up production to meet the needs of the assembly line and dealer stock. They usually don't pull a tire off the rack at this point, because doing so might introduce other problems (they fear.) OEs only want to put a tire on their cars after it has been fully tested.
And still, problem tires, be it rapid wear, steering pull, noise, or hard ride, still manage to make it into the hands of customers, who end up stuck in this loop.
All I can say is that enough people complain, something might happen. But then again, I don't know how BMW specifically responds to these sorts of problems. I worked for a very customer-aware company, Toyota.
Thanks for this great insight. I would like to know who did the perfomance testing for the E90 3 series with the EL42 before the decision was made to go to the assembly process. I assume they need to rework their testing protocols, most importantly when a new technology is incorporated into the car's design plan. In this case without a spare and tire problems right out of the factory, I would think the liability lies with BMW...the dealers are their first line to the customers, so in my view should represent them back to corporate for a decision. If it were me, I would make sure I keep the customers happy at the expense of some new shoes!
I call my dealership this afternoon and spoke to the Service Manager about when I might hear back on my complaint. He had not seen my complaint as I only called BMW NA yesterday.
He was very candid about the situation. Apparently, BMW is collecting data to go after Bridgestone on the EL42 RFTs but no ETA has yet been issued. We discussed that I want them replaced before I go on a trip to Florida in a few months. I told him that I have 15000+ miles on them which I figure is half of the tire life. I told him that I would entertain any reasonable offer from the dealership. He said that he would take to his management and get back with me.
Two hours later I had an offer to give me new tires for 50% of the total cost. Apparently, he discussed this with his management and BMW reps and got the OK. Since I have 15K miles on the Bridgestone RFTs, I accepted the offer.
P.S. I have been reading the reviews on the ContiProContacts and decided to go with the non run flat Michelin Exalto A/S that are even less money than the ContiProContacts SSRs. I purchased the Continental Mobility Kit a year ago from Tirerack.
That sounds like a respectable deal. Like I said, if these dealers want us to come back, they need to LISTEN! This is not a flippant request from a few irrational customers but a choice made by BMW that detracts from the car's satisfaction quotient.
Let us know how you like the Michelins vs. EL 42's.
After reading most of the posts here, I am concern now. The dealer told me that the problem with RTF tires affected only 206 models. BMW still installs Bridgestone but according to the dealer they no longer have issues with those. Also, in spite of the fact that the car has not been even build yet I can not request any different tires like the one recommended in this forum (ContiPro Contact)? Not much concern for the customers? Aren’t those cars design and build more for German’s Autobahn rather than U.S. Hwy’s?
I would think that BMW would have changed the tire model by now. Not much you can do now until you get delivery. Voice your concern before you take ownership.
The tires on the '06 330xi provide a very firm ride and the noise is apparent vs. regular GFT tires and develops as tires wear.
I had my EL42's replaced today with Continental SSR RFT's by the dealer at no charge.
The service rep said that Bridgestone changed the rubber compound on the EL42 last July. (That is why the tires continue for the 335 and 328 for '07. I saw both at the dealer with the EL42.)
He said there are many complaints of noise as the tires reach 10K because "cupping" becomes more apparent on the shoulders which then produces some of the noise reported. It seems the rubber compound was diagnosed as the issue.
Hopefully, that is solved now.
In my case, Conti's sound good and are Rated AA Traction, A Temperature with a 360 Tread wear rating. By the numbers, this tire is good and sound is much quieter so far.
Guess how I found my way to this USA web site all the way from the UK? Yep, searching the internet for info. and experiences on unusual wear patterns and problems with run-flat tyres. I'm a regular on a popular UK based BMW forum where posts on these tyres are frequent recently. Bridgestones - all the same "cupping" and noise problems.
Sorry to have to tell you this OW, but I've had Continental Premium Contact SSR's since new for 14K miles and the front tyres have the outside edge's worn off. I think the Conti's are doing better than Bridgestones, I have no complaints about noise or grip, and the ride is not too bad for a car that handles this well. Photographs of the worn Bridgestones and my Conti's here if you are interested: http://www.bmwland.co.uk/talker/viewtopic.php?t=39760&highlight=rft I've come across one other Conti's tyre owner with the same problem who has had his tyres rotated front to back by the dealer to get some more life out of them.
It is good to hear from you and welcome to this board. I had similar edge wear on the front outboard shoulders of the EL42's at 12K miles. The inside 1/3 of the thread on both fronts were worn more than the outside 2/3. Rears were really good.
Thanks for the heads-up on the Conti RFT's. I will check them at 5K intervals to monitor shoulder (edge) wear.
So far, much quieter experience. I check pressure monthly. Recommended inflation pressure is 32 P.S.I. (US) front, 36 P.S.I., Rear. Not sure of the conversion.
do you feel comfortable giving the name/state of your dealer? i'd like to reference it when i approach mine for added leverage and an example of someone that "did the right thing".
Hello everyone. I have a 2007 330i I took delivery of in September 2006. I have the same noise and cupping as everyone else which was first noticed by me at about 12,000. I am a fairly conservative driver so the car has been babied. I started complaining to my local dealer but got little response except for their offer to replace the front tires by having me pay for one and they give me one. Not satisfactory. I then called BMW National Customer relations to complain. About all they offered was that they don't warranty the tires and that if I have problem I should call Firestone/Bridgestone. they even gave me number.
I called Firestone and they offered to have me come in to one of their Company Owned service centers near my house so they could evaluate the tires. I did this yesterday. They put my car and checked all the alignments and said all was OK. They then offered to replace all 4 tires. Not with the OEM EL 42 Taurenzas but with higher performance Potenzas providing I pay for mounting and balance and road hazard warranty etc for a total of $189. I was not super happy with this since the Potenzas are a softer rubber compound and will wear out fairly fast compared to the EL42s. But the thought of four new tires wa enticing so I did it. They suggested that i run the tires with higher pressures that the BMW recommended pressures. He said the tires will wear better but will ride harder. They also strongly recommend rotating every 5000 miles using a 4 tire rotation. Firestone will do this for free since it is their tires. Backs come straight forward and the fronts go to the opposite rear wheel. I think this may help since the tires will wear more evenly since the edges will be reversed eventually.
I then went to a large chain local tire company (Discount Tires) to talk to them and ask questions about Run Flats in general. The sales rep says that BMWs have a fairly aggressive camber which results in the front edges wearing unevenly and he too suggested that rotating every 5000 will help. He also says that it is not the tires fault but rather the agresive suspension and camber and toe in that cause the cupping. He also says that RFs are causing problems on other cars than BMWS. So we are not alone.
I suggest no following BMWs advice and to rotate tires like we have always done and to increase the tire pressures unless the harsh ride will be to much for you. Increased tire pressure will result in slightly less road adhesion so be careful!
I am really hoping that by the time these Potenzas wear out that there are some Michelin RF tires available. They do have some now but are not available in the size we need. They are available for Corvettes right now. :mad:
Just purchased Bridgestone LM22 RFTs on ASA JH3 16x7.5 rims for winter from TR -- 2006 6-spd 325i with ZSP. I'll be interested to see how they fare on SE PA's rutted, buckled and pot-holed I-95. I am very pleased with my RE050A RFT summer tires -- superb handling and not too stiff with the 17" rims on my car. I went with 205-55-R16H on the winter tires for a taller sidewall and narrower footprint. I'm interested to see how they handle the snow -- have been reading good things, but I'm used to FWD on all-seasons, so we'll see.
I believe the date is included in the serial number next to the DOT number. It is on the inside sidewall so it will be hard to see unless the car is up on a lift or the tire is off the car. The last 4 digits are month/year.
My 2006 which arrived in December 2005 had EL42's that were produced in July 2005.
I assume that Bridgestone (Firestone) changed the rubber compound by now since the new '07's I saw at my dealer on saturday included EL42 Bridgestones on all the 3 series they had on display.
Everyone interested in the RFT issue should read Edmunds long term BMW 330i review posted on 11/27/06. The Edmunds editor compared a 330i with all season GFTs ( Get Flat Tires ) with a 330i with RFTs.
Many thanks to the Edmunds fan who provided his car for this comparison.
Interesting read. The stiffness is there no doubt. The distinction between the EL42s that come with the std suspension and the RE050As that come with ZSP is clearly a factor. I suspect, also, that the 17" ZSP rims on the 325/328i may be a better compromise than the 18 inchers on the 330/335i. As to why BWM went with RFTs, there's no doubt that they are the future, and I really believe in the safety advantage of having a tire maintain integrity during a high speed loss of pressure. Also, Western European highways generally are built to finer tolerances, and are well maintained, so that the hard jolts delivered by pot-holes, buckled concrete underlays, sloppily assembled or collapsing expansion joints, uncleared tire debris, garbage, and discarded household goods are simply not the factor they are in the land of PENNDOT. That said, the non runflat EL42s are not great either.
Unless told otherwise, I'm going to assume that our fellow TownHall member blueguydotcom should get credit for suggesting the back to back test and then offering his own car for said test. Good on yer BlueGuy. :shades:
nkeen, I agree rft's or nft's (no air needed) is the future.
Blue,
Thanks for your contribution. Guys like you advance the cause for positive feedback to get results.
My question to BMW is why continue using the EL42 on 2007 models? Is it just being thick? Or did something change that we do not know yet!?
If I were a potential/returning 3'er customer and I stopped at this board, it would swing me to the competition just from the level of concern. Even a UK poster found this space and voiced concern from there as well so it isn't a local problem. At least offer the choice to include GFT option to satisfy the concern.
Comments
I think we can make a difference if we all call and let them know that we will not accept their defective products! This is not the first issue with Bridgestone Firestone they need to learn their lesson and quit putting out defective products!
I am considering the same thing. Tirerack or another site can easily recommend the tire size you need to match the 18's you already have. I check with BMW and they said that the smallest you can go is 17 inch. I wanted to use 16 inch since you have more tire and price selection. It appears the 16 inch will not work due to the size of the rotor and caliper.
The cheapest 17 inch rims I found was $125 but most seem to run around $199. You can find a few choices in 17 inch all season tires for under $200, however, 18 inch all seasons are over $200. I would stay with the Bridgestone, just not the RFT. I have bridgestones on my other cars and they have been holding up well. Best Tires I have owned so far.
Thank you very much for your suggestion....I have an appointment for changing my EL42's in 2 weeks with the Conti's at my local dealer, but first he needs to corroborate that there is tire noise!
I'll let everyone know the outcome.
OW
Can you all verify that on a leased car, you HAVE to put Run Flats back on it because of the agreement? I'm having a discussion with my dealership.
Thank you.
Best Regards,
Shipo
The plan was to put Michelin RFT's on my car, but come to find out BMW doesn't warranty or provide a tire other than OEMs to the dealership, which means either the Bridgestones or Continentals. So I am stuck with the crappy Bridgestones, at least new, until BMW recalls them.
My service manager was misinformed. I guess they'll see me again in about 11,000 miles.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I also would have the tire manufacturer's warranty on them, but not from BMW. And I bought the road hazard insurance when I signed the lease, that would probably be voided.
I'm not happy at all, but until BMW addresses the problem, what can I do?
Owner6
My dealer advised they will change my B.S. EL42's (4 @ 225 45 17's - 330xi)to the Continentals. I just told them this week I was experiencing noise. They said they will verify this and then change the tires. I did not ask for any special brand. They told me the Conti's were quite RFT's.
Hope this helps.
OW
But he said that basically the Bridgestones and Continentals are both crap, both with the noise and wear problems. No word as to what brand they will choose.
At least we're all in this together.
Please clarify: You are referring to the 17" Bridgestone Turanza all-season run-flats, NOT the 18" Bridgestone RE050A summer run-flats, right?
My understanding is the the former has a problem, but the latter does not.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
I am in the same boat as you are. I hate my Bridgestone as they are extremely noisy and hydroplane badly. I have a nail in the side wall and refuse to buy another EL42 tire. I am also checking out the Conti ProContact SSR. I drove an E90 with these tires and they seemed alot quieter than the Bridgestone El42s.
CK
About 17K of it on original Bridgestone RFT, other 7K on the winterforce last winter. I am back on Winterforce this weeekend.
First 10K on original RFT was smooth, incredibly smooth. Last 7K very rough, very rough. I didn't know it was tire. Took it to dealer last week since I couldn't stand the rough ride, thought something was not right, feared something in engine/drivetrain. No, the dealer said the tires were chopped up. After only 10-17K ? I didn't ride it hot rod or anything, only an occasional speeding on the freeway.
Dealer said still tread left, so bear with it until 30K, then change to new RFT's. Quote - Bridgestone $1150, Conti $800. Saw Conti on Tirerack for $104 a piece, + $100 for switching over, I am thinking may be Spring 08.
Blue, how is reg tire you mentioned. I don't mind. I can use one of the winters as spare in the trunk. What kind did you get.
Here's another thing. On Thu I got indication I have a flat. I checked pressure, it was near zero, but no indication of flat just looking at tire. I drove about 3 mi at 40MPH max to gas station, inflated to 35 psi, and drove back home. Next day 30 psi still left. That's when changed to the winter (a week too early on my schedule. Typically Thanksgiving weekend). Found a nail right in the center. Took to shop and patched it. It should last until next Thanksgiving, I hope.
Love the car though. No problem. Even the oil stays max after 9K. 6K more to go. Get 24-27 MPG on mixed driving (2:1 backroads:freeway). I may have gotten 32 on the freeway on a trip, don't remember.
I'll wager BMW is making a huge move on these to replace the EL42 B.S. tires...my dealer says they will replace EL42's on my car with Conti's...I assume the ProContact SSR but I will let everyone know.
Regards,
OW
We will see where this goes. "The wheel that squeaks the loudest get the most oil". I am retired and have the time to pursue this.
Will keep the forum informed where I get.
Wallyj
My dealer replaced the horrid EL-42's with Conti Pro Contact SSR's WITH NO HASSLE (at his expense, I presume). It's all in the dealer's hands. Appeal to the dealer... he wants your business. BMW doesn't give a damn.
I am retired as well....and it didn't require as much time to solve this as I alotted!
There is rumor that the 2007 3 series has a completely redesigned suspension which is part of the problem...thus the change in numbers(328, etc). I'll believe it when I see it.... also...supposedly a recall is coming on the RFT problem...I'll believe that when I see it as well.
You would expect a Lexus car to be like a BMW motorcycle? :confuse:
Thank God for that. Sometimes our loyalty to a brand is a direct result of the ego boosting satisfaction we receive by claiming that brand. We overlook the flaws that exist with that brand and those that market the brand to us. This is the case with so many BMW owners, but let's face it, the car is over-rated and the company is by far the least customer oriented automobile company that exists. Read the 535 posts prior to this one and think about what you spent $37-40,000 on. These posts say a lot about BMW's attitude and their lack of concern for BMW owners. We bought the Ultimate Driving Machine and ultimately we got shafted, lied to and sold down the river regarding this RFT issue.
Go onto the Lexus message boards and you will find them absolutely boring. No major problems or issues. No RFT issues (because they were smart enough to NOT equip their cars with RFT's). No major complaints about customer service and no dealer issues. No exciting exchange of rhetoric or rallying of the troops to fight the BMW establishment over RFT's. No being lied to. No confusion about what the right hand is doing. No run around from "Lexus NA". Boring, very boring.
Yeah......it still ain't a beemer......and I hope it never turns into one.
I lodged a formal complaint to BMW NA too. They gave me number to Bridgestone. I called Bridgestone, and they put me up with the local Firestone shop. I took the tires to the Firestone guy, and he said there is no manufacturing defect with the tires. The problem was me not rotating the tires more frequently. How frequently - every 3000 mi. At $60 to $80 each balancing & rotation, I think that is baloney. More business for the shops, and no answer to the short-lived tires.
You apprently haven't been reading my posts on the 2006 GS300 board, and you're wrong about Lexus not using runflats. After 10,000 miles I switched my GS to "normal" tires because I had the same issues that BMW owners have had with them, although mine had Dunlops.
In one year of ownership, I've had my Lexus back to the dealer eight times to fix problems.
As far as not being lied to, well.... every time I brought mine in to fix problems that many GS owners were complaining about, I got the standard "This-is-the-first-time-I've-heard-about-that-problem" dealer response.
My experiences haven't been typical of Lexus owners, but to state that the boards don't contain any complaints, or that Lexus doesn't use run-flats, is incorrect.
But I thnk you should call or e-mail your dealer with your concerns. My deaker responded on one try.
Regards,
OW
I spoke to the dealer's SA and he told me that I had to file a formal complaint with BMW NA. Once this is done, the dealership is notified and some resolution will occur. How long do you think I should wait to hear back from the dealership?
The service dept has not looked at the problem so I suspect that I will need to take the car in for them to look at. I suspect that they will come up with line like "the tires need to be rotated" or "it is Bridgestone's problem".
We all know that BMW is responsible for choosing these tires and making a bad decision.
Wallyj
You should contact BMWUSA and compleing about your dealer's lack of attentivnes to your concerns. They should replace the tires or loose you as a customer in the future.
Regards,
OW
Once at the tire store, the customer gets turned away because, probably, there ARE no defects in "materials or workmanship" - the only things the typical tire warranty covers. It was the car maker's development targets or the tire maker's construction or compound choices that determine the performance outcome in cases like this, yet no one seems to "own" the problem at this point.
So the customers get ping-ponged back and forth.
Eventually, if enough folks complain, the car maker might decide to redevelop a tire. I've seen it, and been involved in it, but it's a long process to redevelop a new tire and ramp up production to meet the needs of the assembly line and dealer stock. They usually don't pull a tire off the rack at this point, because doing so might introduce other problems (they fear.) OEs only want to put a tire on their cars after it has been fully tested.
And still, problem tires, be it rapid wear, steering pull, noise, or hard ride, still manage to make it into the hands of customers, who end up stuck in this loop.
All I can say is that enough people complain, something might happen. But then again, I don't know how BMW specifically responds to these sorts of problems. I worked for a very customer-aware company, Toyota.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
Regards,
OW
He was very candid about the situation. Apparently, BMW is collecting data to go after Bridgestone on the EL42 RFTs but no ETA has yet been issued. We discussed that I want them replaced before I go on a trip to Florida in a few months. I told him that I have 15000+ miles on them which I figure is half of the tire life. I told him that I would entertain any reasonable offer from the dealership. He said that he would take to his management and get back with me.
Two hours later I had an offer to give me new tires for 50% of the total cost. Apparently, he discussed this with his management and BMW reps and got the OK. Since I have 15K miles on the Bridgestone RFTs, I accepted the offer.
P.S. I have been reading the reviews on the ContiProContacts and decided to go with the non run flat Michelin Exalto A/S that are even less money than the ContiProContacts SSRs. I purchased the Continental Mobility Kit a year ago from Tirerack.
Wallyj
That sounds like a respectable deal. Like I said, if these dealers want us to come back, they need to LISTEN! This is not a flippant request from a few irrational customers but a choice made by BMW that detracts from the car's satisfaction quotient.
Let us know how you like the Michelins vs. EL 42's.
I hope you are totally happy with the outcome.
Best Regards,
OW
The dealer told me that the problem with RTF tires affected only 206 models.
BMW still installs Bridgestone but according to the dealer they no longer have issues with those. Also, in spite of the fact that the car has not been even build yet I can not request any different tires like the one recommended in this forum (ContiPro Contact)?
Not much concern for the customers?
Aren’t those cars design and build more for German’s Autobahn rather than U.S. Hwy’s?
The tires on the '06 330xi provide a very firm ride and the noise is apparent vs. regular GFT tires and develops as tires wear.
Regards,
OW
The service rep said that Bridgestone changed the rubber compound on the EL42 last July. (That is why the tires continue for the 335 and 328 for '07. I saw both at the dealer with the EL42.)
He said there are many complaints of noise as the tires reach 10K because "cupping" becomes more apparent on the shoulders which then produces some of the noise reported. It seems the rubber compound was diagnosed as the issue.
Hopefully, that is solved now.
In my case, Conti's sound good and are Rated AA Traction, A Temperature with a 360 Tread wear rating. By the numbers, this tire is good and sound is much quieter so far.
Best Regards,
OW
Yep, searching the internet for info. and experiences on unusual wear patterns and problems with run-flat tyres.
I'm a regular on a popular UK based BMW forum where posts on these tyres are frequent recently.
Bridgestones - all the same "cupping" and noise problems.
Sorry to have to tell you this OW, but I've had Continental Premium Contact SSR's since new for 14K miles and the front tyres have the outside edge's worn off. I think the Conti's are doing better than Bridgestones, I have no complaints about noise or grip, and the ride is not too bad for a car that handles this well.
Photographs of the worn Bridgestones and my Conti's here if you are interested:
http://www.bmwland.co.uk/talker/viewtopic.php?t=39760&highlight=rft
I've come across one other Conti's tyre owner with the same problem who has had his tyres rotated front to back by the dealer to get some more life out of them.
OWNER6
It is good to hear from you and welcome to this board. I had similar edge wear on the front outboard shoulders of the EL42's at 12K miles. The inside 1/3 of the thread on both fronts were worn more than the outside 2/3. Rears were really good.
Thanks for the heads-up on the Conti RFT's. I will check them at 5K intervals to monitor shoulder (edge) wear.
So far, much quieter experience. I check pressure monthly. Recommended inflation pressure is 32 P.S.I. (US) front, 36 P.S.I., Rear. Not sure of the conversion.
Keep posting.
Best Regards,
OW
Great question. I will research but does anyone know where the mfg. date is on the tires?
I have an EL42 off the rim at home and will check tonight.
Regards,
OW
do you feel comfortable giving the name/state of your dealer? i'd like to reference it when i approach mine for added leverage and an example of someone that "did the right thing".
many thanks,
jd
Regards,
OW
I called Firestone and they offered to have me come in to one of their Company Owned service centers near my house so they could evaluate the tires. I did this yesterday. They put my car and checked all the alignments and said all was OK. They then offered to replace all 4 tires. Not with the OEM EL 42 Taurenzas but with higher performance Potenzas providing I pay for mounting and balance and road hazard warranty etc for a total of $189. I was not super happy with this since the Potenzas are a softer rubber compound and will wear out fairly fast compared to the EL42s. But the thought of four new tires wa enticing so I did it. They suggested that i run the tires with higher pressures that the BMW recommended pressures. He said the tires will wear better but will ride harder. They also strongly recommend rotating every 5000 miles using a 4 tire rotation. Firestone will do this for free since it is their tires. Backs come straight forward and the fronts go to the opposite rear wheel. I think this may help since the tires will wear more evenly since the edges will be reversed eventually.
I then went to a large chain local tire company (Discount Tires) to talk to them and ask questions about Run Flats in general. The sales rep says that BMWs have a fairly aggressive camber which results in the front edges wearing unevenly and he too suggested that rotating every 5000 will help. He also says that it is not the tires fault but rather the agresive suspension and camber and toe in that cause the cupping. He also says that RFs are causing problems on other cars than BMWS. So we are not alone.
I suggest no following BMWs advice and to rotate tires like we have always done and to increase the tire pressures unless the harsh ride will be to much for you. Increased tire pressure will result in slightly less road adhesion so be careful!
I am really hoping that by the time these Potenzas wear out that there are some Michelin RF tires available. They do have some now but are not available in the size we need. They are available for Corvettes right now.
:mad:
I believe the date is included in the serial number next to the DOT number. It is on the inside sidewall so it will be hard to see unless the car is up on a lift or the tire is off the car. The last 4 digits are month/year.
My 2006 which arrived in December 2005 had EL42's that were produced in July 2005.
I assume that Bridgestone (Firestone) changed the rubber compound by now since the new '07's I saw at my dealer on saturday included EL42 Bridgestones on all the 3 series they had on display.
Regards,
OW
The Edmunds editor compared a 330i with all season GFTs ( Get Flat Tires ) with a 330i with RFTs.
Many thanks to the Edmunds fan who provided his car for this comparison.
cbanct
Best Regards,
Shipo
Blue,
Thanks for your contribution. Guys like you advance the cause for positive feedback to get results.
My question to BMW is why continue using the EL42 on 2007 models? Is it just being thick? Or did something change that we do not know yet!?
If I were a potential/returning 3'er customer and I stopped at this board, it would swing me to the competition just from the level of concern. Even a UK poster found this space and voiced concern from there as well so it isn't a local problem. At least offer the choice to include GFT option to satisfy the concern.
Regards,
OW