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I haven't seen any evidence of that and with the the turn around of Ford and now the beginning with GM, I don't think that will be the case. I have seen no proof or evidence that what happens in other countries directly influences what we get here. If anything, from what I've seen, all the import makes seem to do what ever the hell they want with what models are sold in what countries.
Wait till gas goes back up to $4 and $5 bucks a gallon, its on its way already. All that will matter in this car market here is going to be those gas prices, not what's happening in China, Japan, Europe, etc.
Many new designs are from other areas - speaking of Ford, just look at the Fiesta...GM - Buick Regal, and so on. Imports offer much wider ranges elsewhere and give the US pretty much what is cheap and easy.
If gas spikes for a prolonged period, technologies and designs from places where gas has been far more expensive for countless years will become even more relevant. Those other markets have the more expensive gas, and will directly influence what is sold here to address the increased cost.
You know, after finding that there are 40-something new posts in this forum today, I still think the UA of Toyotas has been way overblown.
Yet I'm still glad that their market share is going down.
That's pretty much my POV. I recall when Audi was the target of an SUA investigation back in the 1980s by the NHTSA, after drivers complained that Audi 5000s were prone to "surging" - even while the brake pedal was depressed. No one could replicate this under controlled conditions, & the NHTSA concluded that driver error was to blame. Audi subsequently increased the distance between the brake & accelerator pedals.
At the time, I owned an Audi 5000 (although my car was a stick & thus not at risk) & I felt that the company was being unjustly maligned. But I also believed that there were good reasons for avoiding VW/Audi's products. Quality control back then was somewhere between lousy & non-existent. I couldn't drive my car 1,000 miles without taking it back to the dealer, who would then charge me a lot of money to not fix the problem. It was easily the most troublesome car I've ever owned. Even today, almost a quarter century after getting rid of it, I can't drive past an Audi dealer without wincing.
Although I really like some of the company's latest offerings, I don't think that I'll ever own another Audi.
I have always said its those toyota electronics ! Anyone with experience of computer / software errors, hangs which just befuddle will know that it is very possible that toyota's electronics aren't that good.
For those of you who keeps on blaming the toyota driver for old, heart attack, panic, what have you, simple, now, find me just ONE similar SUA video of a Nissan, Honda, Hyundai, etc which behaved similarly.
Try it. You will be hard pressed to find even one. And don't say Nissan, Honda, Hyundai etc don't have their share of old drivers. Don't say Nissan, Honda, Hyundai drivers are all in superb health !
Don't kid yourself toyota fans ! Is toyota so important to you or is your life and those of your loved ones more important ? For Heaven's sake !
I support you ! With such a jumbo jackpot, a wife who tries to stop her husband from trying such a once in a lifetime opportunity is an idiot indeed. Yea, the odds are 1 in 176 million, BUT if you don't buy any ticket at all, your winning chances are a dead ZERO !!!
It could be you ! Who knows ?
And pls, don't take those stories abt divorces happening after the win. I have seen FAR more divorces happening because of the lack of money. 300+ million goes a long long way.
And if you win Imidazol97, do yourself a favour. Forget about low performance cars like the ft 86. Go for the Nissan GTR V Spec EGOIST version. 0-62 in abt 3 seconds. With 200+ million in cash in your hands, nobody can and will blame you for being EGOIST !
And pls. with 300+ million, you got to VALUE your life even more ! If I have that kind of money, I'll try to eat healthy, avoid smoking and other vices, so that I can live more than 100 years old and really really enjoy life to the full, tour around the world, eat all kinds of food etc. And yes, if you work for someone, time to say goodbye to him and say " No more orders for me from now on. I am going to Paris tomorrow for some R&R. "
Play computer games everyday till you drop. Wow ! No need to work anymore. Life IS wonderful. Who says money isn't important ? Ask toyota, who still fights small change with the widows of their dead employees in spite of having billions in cash.
But to do that, you got to really start firing your survival instincts.
And buying / driving a toyota today is not one of the best life extension moves you can make nor the least risky.
>For those of you who keeps on blaming the toyota driver for old, heart attack, panic, what have you, simple, now, find me just ONE similar SUA video of a Nissan, Honda, Hyundai, etc which behaved similarly.
That's a good point. There should be a huge number of other vehicles popular with the senior crowd crashing daily if that were the case. We'd see Hondas and Volvos and Buicks and Crown Vics crashing daily in this area.
So far the driver in the video has been associated with drinking because he visited a bar (which was actually a betting parlor). I've been threated with being sued for libel. The attorney in the matter surely has proof that the man killed by the Corolla was not intoxicated through a blood test during an autopsy or else he wouldn't have filed; nothing ruins a good case faster than proof that your client was impaired in some manner. Obvious to most is that the person was not drinking.
The point is that there is some kind of problem. It hasn't been thoroughly exposed. Just like some problems in the past the whole truth is not open; Explorers tipping over, transmissions on Hondas, intake manifold leaks on GMs, brakes wearing out early on various vehicles, engines sludging, and on and on.
I dunno - I'm thinking more people were killed or maimed in all those flipping Ford Explorer's?
Another example of the NHTSA sitting on their hands collecting a fat paycheck. You would think they would have learned from past experiences like the Ford Firestone mess and been more vigilant when the Toyota SUA cases started piling up. But no Toyota had inside Federal friends that saved them $100 million according to testimony in the Congressional hearings.
Honda didn't have a great year, but they certainly closed the gap quite substantially between themselves and Toyota. Toyota can't afford too many more years like the last one but I have a feeling it will get them anyway.
Toyota's silver lining is that the Camry is still the #1 selling car in America, handily beating out the #2 Accord.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I felt that the company was being unjustly maligned
Probably true, but here's my question.
Why are import brands more vulnerable to this sort of hype? Audi was nearly killed from it.
I feel like Ford got a pass by throwing Firestone under the bus with the Explorer fiasco.
Similarly, CR tests the Lexus GX and it skids, and they flip out, and put a "Do Not Buy" rating on it. The Jeep Grand Cherokee hops and skids in their avoidance maneuver and it gets a 2nd chance (the V8 did better, but had the air suspension).
Want more examples? I've got plenty.
Isuzu Trooper and Acura SLX were crucified in the media for their tendency to roll, yet the Ford Escape rolled on its side in IIHS tests and nobody even blinked.
Everyone remember the Suzuki rollover controversy, too, yet when Autoweek rolled a Jeep Liberty on its side, Jeep quietly did a suspension recall and everyone gave it a pass because Jeeps are tall vehicles targeted at off roaders anyway.
GM blamed Dateline for their dramatization of side-saddle gas tank explosions, and they got a pass, too.
The attorney in the matter surely has proof that the man killed by the Corolla was not intoxicated through a blood test during an autopsy or else he wouldn't have filed
What flawless logic, LOL. If that were true, plaintiffs would win every case in court.
And you still dodged the question - was the driver impaired, even before the throttle was maxed out?
Why did he steer left, then right, then left, and go so slow, yet hit the car behind him anyway?
Post by ben66: "For those of you who keeps on blaming the toyota driver forold, heart attack, panic,what have you, simple, now, find me just ONE similar SUA video of a Nissan, Honda, Hyundai, etc which behaved similarly. "
>find me just ONE similar SUA video of a Nissan, Honda, Hyundai, etc which behaved similarly
Did you even watch the video? ROFL. You sidestepped the request for proof by ben66.
The original request was for an example of one of the excuses made by ateixtra that toyota couldn't be at fault because the driver was old, at a bar (drinking), stroke, heart attack, etc.
Your response was actually a Pilot claimed by the owners to have an electronics problem with a video of the tachometer. They claim that it had accelerated while driving, which is exactly what toyotas have been accused of having happen. :P
Your video supports the tenet of myself and some others that toyota has an electronics or control problem in part of the cars suffering runaway acceleration. Thanks.
So what was the verdict on the Pilot UA? Did Honda try to sweep it under the rug? Or are they vigorously trying to resolve the problem? If Honda has a problem with SUA and trying to hide it, I say nail em!
Toyota has a history of trying to cover up problems. Don't forget all the 2nd gen Prius that just quit running and displayed the triangle of death. The dealers would reset the onboard computer and send the customer back out to try and cause an accident. How many reports did the NHTSA have before Toyota addressed and found their problem. Same with the 3rd gen Prius and the brakes that took a second to respond in emergency situations. How many accidents did that cause that were blamed on the driver?
And how do we really know that the reports of SUA have gone down 80%. Since the recalls. You are assuming that the NHTSA is posting all the reports they get.
Toyota can't afford too many more years like the last one
I thought about that last night ...
You used the word afford, so let's think about revenues for a minute.
Gary and fintail have pounded in the fact that Mercedes and BMW have higher transactions costs, and we should look not at volumes, but revenues instead.
Even explorerx4 keeps reminding us that Ford sells a bunch of trucks and those cost more so they can afford huge incentives. Again, the important thing is the total revenues minus those incentives.
So let's not forget the importance of revenues.
OK, so now let's look at the sales by model, the big losers were:
Yaris down 37%, but it starts at just $12,355!
Scion xD down 30%, but that model starts at just $14,800!
The other big loser, percentage-wise, was the Lexus SC, but isn't that model discontinued anyway? Not to mention the volume for 2010 was down by 392 units, not even worthy of mention.
In terms of volume, the 2 biggest losers were the Camry ($19,395, maybe less for fleets) and Corolla ($15,350), all starting prices.
OK, so now let's look at the gainers.
From a percentage standpoint, 2 huge winners:
Toyota 4Runner gained 138%! Volume gains were HUGE as well, nearly 27,000 trucks. For every Camry sale they lost, they basically sold an extra 4Runner. Starting price? $27,500.
So they pushed those 27,000 sales up an average of about $8000. Think that's insignificant?
Gary, fintail, and explorerx4 would tell you otherwise. That alone means revenues would be up by $216,000,000. Yep, hundreds of millions.
What other models won in percent gains? Lexus GX, up an incredible 166%. In terms of volume, that just about offsets all of Scion's lost sales. And the GX starts at $47,615. Some simple math will tell you that's about $30 grand in revenues more per sale, times 10k plus sales, we're talking another $300,000,000 plus right there.
Other big gainers? All more expensive than the Camry/Corolla: Sienna, RAV4, FJ, etc.
The Lexus LS we debated a lot was up 9%, FWIW.
So while sales were down 0.03% (is that enough Zeros? LOL)....
Revenues skyrocketed. By hundreds of millions I'm sure.
On the mend in 2010.
OK, now we can change the topic name.
A special thanks to gagric, fintail, and explorerx4 for educating me on how important revenues are, as opposed to just volume.
You defend the Explorer when hundreds of those roll, yet one Lexus skids, doesn't even roll mind you, and did you defend it?
I think you are comparing apples to oranges. The Explorer is not a luxury SUV. The GX should be compared to the BMW X5 or at least the VW Touareg for handling prowess. Face it the GX is a top heavy pig and not really all that safe. I did not feel all that safe or comfortable in the one I checked out. If you have to have a Lexus SUV do yourself a favor and get the LX. Though it has gone down hill with the new Generation.
It did not even get picked in the long list of Top Safety Picks by the IIHS this year. The only large SUV that made the list is the VW Touareg. I am putting it on my list with the diesel engine. May be my next vehicle purchase. Face it Lexus RX & GX are suburb cruisers and nothing more. Probably a good choice for our road conditions in CA.
Toyota 4Runner gained 138%! Volume gains were HUGE as well, nearly 27,000 trucks. For every Camry sale they lost, they basically sold an extra 4Runner. Starting price? $27,500.
So they pushed those 27,000 sales up an average of about $8000. Think that's insignificant?
Gary, fintail, and explorerx4 would tell you otherwise. That alone means revenues would be up by $216,000,000. Yep, hundreds of millions.
On the contrary. I was very happy to see the solid built 4Runner doing well. It was supposed to be dumped according to posters that felt they were in the know. By the way the rebadged 4Runner sold as a GX by Lexus should have used the same body and they probably would not be so top heavy. Also the wider stance would have helped. Not sure how Lexus screwed up the GX so badly. :P
I doubt that the difference in profit is anywhere near what you are posting. What does it cost to build a cheapo Camry compared to a 4x4 SUV? Is the 4Runner built here or in Japan? That could add some cost also.
I think you are comparing apples to oranges. The Explorer is not a luxury SUV. The GX should be compared to the BMW X5 or at least the VW Touareg for handling prowess
No way, the GX is an off-road capable body-on-frame truck.
It would compare more closely to a short wheelbase Escalade or Navigator.
Or maybe the discontinued Lincoln Aviator, or that Chrysler clone of the Durango, what was that called? Aspen.
But remember, volume is not important, what counts is revenues, right folks?
Looks like those big December incentives paid off for Lexus. :P They kept their title. I would be interested in the bottom line net profit for BMW, MB and Lexus. That is what is most important if you are an automaker.
>ateixeira says: ben66 was saying that Toyota electronics are inferior and a Honda/Nissan/whatever would never do that.
Did you even read his post?
"For those of you who keeps on blaming the toyota driver for old, heart attack, panic, what have you, simple, now, find me just ONE similar SUA video of a Nissan, Honda, Hyundai, etc which behaved similarly.
"Try it. You will be hard pressed to find even one. And don't say Nissan, Honda, Hyundai etc don't have their share of old drivers. Don't say Nissan, Honda, Hyundai drivers are all in superb health !"
Come on. We're waiting for the examples in numbers to show that toyota's problems were all caused by old, feeble, drunk, strokes, heart attacks, etc.
The video link you provided in error was about electronics--which I agree is likely a source of part of the problem. :sick:
So it's batting 1000 so far, let's see if IIHS conducts the other 3 tests.
I would say that is batting .250. My guess IIHS cannot find a driver willing to risk his life in the rollover tests. :P I thought this was interesting on the GX fix.
Consumer Reports Says Lexus GX 460 Now Ok to Buy After Passing Retest CR contacted the Lexus dealership from which they had anonymously bought the vehicle and made an appointment to have the recall work performed. The work took about an hour and a half.
Following that, CR's engineers again put the SUV through the full series of emergency handling tests. This time, the ESC system intervened earlier and its rear did not slide out in the lift-off oversteer test. Instead, the vehicle understeered -- or plowed -- when it exceeded its limits of traction,
So they fixed one problem and made another. I am glad we did not like that vehicle when we were in the market for our large SUV. My neighbor has one parked in his garage. I never see him drive it. Always drives his F250 crew cab. I need to ask him if he likes it.
That is little consolation for the stock holders, when Toyota/Lexus/Scion went from Numero Uno to 3rd place overall in sales. Getting beat out by bankrupt GM and revitalized Ford.
I wonder where they are World wide? I think VW has taken over that spot. Hard to tell.
You might want to tell that to BMW X car drivers that are chasing the 2011 Touareg in the Dakar race. I see VW, BMW, Hummer, Nissan and a Mini in the top 10. I don't see a Toyota closer than 30th place. Maybe the Toyota offroad prowess is history and or a myth.
Throughout automotive history, the vehicles that did well in racing, sell well in the market place. The Camry and Nascar kind of bears that out. Though I am sure gramps is disappointed when he goes to race from the stop light in his Camry, unless SUA takes over and gives him the ride of his life. :P
Somewhat erroneous reporting don't you think? The Brand was not the top selling. It was 3rd behind Ford's 1.935 million sold. That is about 170k more vehicles sold by Ford. Not even close to the 2.2 million GM sold. What a difference 2 years make in the auto industry.
Also I would guess as you have pointed out, the Ford PU sales were much higher profit than the Camry sales. Ford sold about 200k more F series PU trucks than Toyota sold Camry the number one selling car. What was that figure you used to compare? Was it $8000 difference. Or if you are right that is about $1.6 billion more for Ford than Toyota.
All told, Toyota had an undeniably rough year. Losing over one percentage point of retail market share between all brands is never a good sign, but in this case it can be directly tied a major publicity scandal in the midst of a weakly-recovering market.
It was not a publicity scandal. It was a Toyota corporate scandal. They lied and tried to cover up their problems. They lied to Congress and got caught. The adverse publicity was of their own making. They deserve the loss in market share.
Comments
Wait till gas goes back up to $4 and $5 bucks a gallon, its on its way already. All that will matter in this car market here is going to be those gas prices, not what's happening in China, Japan, Europe, etc.
If gas spikes for a prolonged period, technologies and designs from places where gas has been far more expensive for countless years will become even more relevant. Those other markets have the more expensive gas, and will directly influence what is sold here to address the increased cost.
Yet I'm still glad that their market share is going down.
That's pretty much my POV. I recall when Audi was the target of an SUA investigation back in the 1980s by the NHTSA, after drivers complained that Audi 5000s were prone to "surging" - even while the brake pedal was depressed. No one could replicate this under controlled conditions, & the NHTSA concluded that driver error was to blame. Audi subsequently increased the distance between the brake & accelerator pedals.
At the time, I owned an Audi 5000 (although my car was a stick & thus not at risk) & I felt that the company was being unjustly maligned. But I also believed that there were good reasons for avoiding VW/Audi's products. Quality control back then was somewhere between lousy & non-existent. I couldn't drive my car 1,000 miles without taking it back to the dealer, who would then charge me a lot of money to not fix the problem. It was easily the most troublesome car I've ever owned. Even today, almost a quarter century after getting rid of it, I can't drive past an Audi dealer without wincing.
Although I really like some of the company's latest offerings, I don't think that I'll ever own another Audi.
For those of you who keeps on blaming the toyota driver for old, heart attack, panic, what have you, simple, now, find me just ONE similar SUA video of a Nissan, Honda, Hyundai, etc which behaved similarly.
Try it. You will be hard pressed to find even one. And don't say Nissan, Honda, Hyundai etc don't have their share of old drivers. Don't say Nissan, Honda, Hyundai drivers are all in superb health !
Don't kid yourself toyota fans ! Is toyota so important to you or is your life and those of your loved ones more important ? For Heaven's sake !
Don't kid yourself toyota fans ! Is toyota so important to you or is your life and those of your loved ones more important ? For Heaven's sake !
I dunno - I'm thinking more people were killed or maimed in all those flipping Ford Explorer's???
It could be you ! Who knows ?
And pls, don't take those stories abt divorces happening after the win. I have seen FAR more divorces happening because of the lack of money. 300+ million goes a long long way.
And if you win Imidazol97, do yourself a favour. Forget about low performance cars like the ft 86. Go for the Nissan GTR V Spec EGOIST version. 0-62 in abt 3 seconds. With 200+ million in cash in your hands, nobody can and will blame you for being EGOIST !
And pls. with 300+ million, you got to VALUE your life even more ! If I have that kind of money, I'll try to eat healthy, avoid smoking and other vices, so that I can live more than 100 years old and really really enjoy life to the full, tour around the world, eat all kinds of food etc. And yes, if you work for someone, time to say goodbye to him and say " No more orders for me from now on. I am going to Paris tomorrow for some R&R. "
Play computer games everyday till you drop. Wow ! No need to work anymore. Life IS wonderful. Who says money isn't important ? Ask toyota, who still fights small change with the widows of their dead employees in spite of having billions in cash.
But to do that, you got to really start firing your survival instincts.
And buying / driving a toyota today is not one of the best life extension moves you can make nor the least risky.
That's a good point. There should be a huge number of other vehicles popular with the senior crowd crashing daily if that were the case. We'd see Hondas and Volvos and Buicks and Crown Vics crashing daily in this area.
So far the driver in the video has been associated with drinking because he visited a bar (which was actually a betting parlor). I've been threated with being sued for libel. The attorney in the matter surely has proof that the man killed by the Corolla was not intoxicated through a blood test during an autopsy or else he wouldn't have filed; nothing ruins a good case faster than proof that your client was impaired in some manner. Obvious to most is that the person was not drinking.
The point is that there is some kind of problem. It hasn't been thoroughly exposed. Just like some problems in the past the whole truth is not open; Explorers tipping over, transmissions on Hondas, intake manifold leaks on GMs, brakes wearing out early on various vehicles, engines sludging, and on and on.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Another example of the NHTSA sitting on their hands collecting a fat paycheck. You would think they would have learned from past experiences like the Ford Firestone mess and been more vigilant when the Toyota SUA cases started piling up. But no Toyota had inside Federal friends that saved them $100 million according to testimony in the Congressional hearings.
Toyota's silver lining is that the Camry is still the #1 selling car in America, handily beating out the #2 Accord.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Probably true, but here's my question.
Why are import brands more vulnerable to this sort of hype? Audi was nearly killed from it.
I feel like Ford got a pass by throwing Firestone under the bus with the Explorer fiasco.
Similarly, CR tests the Lexus GX and it skids, and they flip out, and put a "Do Not Buy" rating on it. The Jeep Grand Cherokee hops and skids in their avoidance maneuver and it gets a 2nd chance (the V8 did better, but had the air suspension).
Want more examples? I've got plenty.
Isuzu Trooper and Acura SLX were crucified in the media for their tendency to roll, yet the Ford Escape rolled on its side in IIHS tests and nobody even blinked.
Everyone remember the Suzuki rollover controversy, too, yet when Autoweek rolled a Jeep Liberty on its side, Jeep quietly did a suspension recall and everyone gave it a pass because Jeeps are tall vehicles targeted at off roaders anyway.
GM blamed Dateline for their dramatization of side-saddle gas tank explosions, and they got a pass, too.
Imports have no such luck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hUucMJu4pc
That's not what you said when the Lexus GX skidded. Yet that is exactly the case - excessive speeds.
Double standard?
You defend the Explorer when hundreds of those roll, yet one Lexus skids, doesn't even roll mind you, and did you defend it?
Of course not.
What flawless logic, LOL. If that were true, plaintiffs would win every case in court.
And you still dodged the question - was the driver impaired, even before the throttle was maxed out?
Why did he steer left, then right, then left, and go so slow, yet hit the car behind him anyway?
I know we've disagreed on many things, but I will give you this - you are, at a minimum, consistent.
Yes, you're hard on Toyota, but you're also tough on Ford and everyone else.
I think others here could learn from you.
>find me just ONE similar SUA video of a Nissan, Honda, Hyundai, etc which behaved similarly
Did you even watch the video? ROFL.
You sidestepped the request for proof by ben66.
The original request was for an example of one of the excuses made by ateixtra that toyota couldn't be at fault because the driver was old, at a bar (drinking), stroke, heart attack, etc.
Your response was actually a Pilot claimed by the owners to have an electronics problem with a video of the tachometer. They claim that it had accelerated while driving, which is exactly what toyotas have been accused of having happen. :P
Your video supports the tenet of myself and some others that toyota has an electronics or control problem in part of the cars suffering runaway acceleration. Thanks.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Toyota has a history of trying to cover up problems. Don't forget all the 2nd gen Prius that just quit running and displayed the triangle of death. The dealers would reset the onboard computer and send the customer back out to try and cause an accident. How many reports did the NHTSA have before Toyota addressed and found their problem. Same with the 3rd gen Prius and the brakes that took a second to respond in emergency situations. How many accidents did that cause that were blamed on the driver?
And how do we really know that the reports of SUA have gone down 80%. Since the recalls. You are assuming that the NHTSA is posting all the reports they get.
I thought about that last night ...
You used the word afford, so let's think about revenues for a minute.
Gary and fintail have pounded in the fact that Mercedes and BMW have higher transactions costs, and we should look not at volumes, but revenues instead.
Even explorerx4 keeps reminding us that Ford sells a bunch of trucks and those cost more so they can afford huge incentives. Again, the important thing is the total revenues minus those incentives.
So let's not forget the importance of revenues.
OK, so now let's look at the sales by model, the big losers were:
Yaris down 37%, but it starts at just $12,355!
Scion xD down 30%, but that model starts at just $14,800!
The other big loser, percentage-wise, was the Lexus SC, but isn't that model discontinued anyway? Not to mention the volume for 2010 was down by 392 units, not even worthy of mention.
In terms of volume, the 2 biggest losers were the Camry ($19,395, maybe less for fleets) and Corolla ($15,350), all starting prices.
OK, so now let's look at the gainers.
From a percentage standpoint, 2 huge winners:
Toyota 4Runner gained 138%! Volume gains were HUGE as well, nearly 27,000 trucks. For every Camry sale they lost, they basically sold an extra 4Runner. Starting price? $27,500.
So they pushed those 27,000 sales up an average of about $8000. Think that's insignificant?
Gary, fintail, and explorerx4 would tell you otherwise. That alone means revenues would be up by $216,000,000. Yep, hundreds of millions.
What other models won in percent gains? Lexus GX, up an incredible 166%. In terms of volume, that just about offsets all of Scion's lost sales. And the GX starts at $47,615. Some simple math will tell you that's about $30 grand in revenues more per sale, times 10k plus sales, we're talking another $300,000,000 plus right there.
Other big gainers? All more expensive than the Camry/Corolla: Sienna, RAV4, FJ, etc.
The Lexus LS we debated a lot was up 9%, FWIW.
So while sales were down 0.03% (is that enough Zeros? LOL)....
Revenues skyrocketed. By hundreds of millions I'm sure.
On the mend in 2010.
OK, now we can change the topic name.
A special thanks to gagric, fintail, and explorerx4 for educating me on how important revenues are, as opposed to just volume.
Doesn't the Pilot have a traditional throttle cable tho? I know my Acura MDX did. Sticky throttle cables can affect any make and model...
The thing about the Camry and some other Toyotas is the throttle is electronic.
ben66 was saying that Toyota electronics are inferior and a Honda/Nissan/whatever would never do that.
I proved him wrong. The video is totally relevant.
His point was completely absurd. It took me about 3 seconds on a YouTube search to find that Honda video and there are thousands more.
Don't be lazy, search for yourself.
Thanks
You're welcome.
Now, time to man-up and answer my question - do you agree that driver was impaired?
Ask NHTSA. LOL
I have no idea. I took about 3 seconds on YouTube searching to prove ben66's statement was simply ridiculous.
I think you are comparing apples to oranges. The Explorer is not a luxury SUV. The GX should be compared to the BMW X5 or at least the VW Touareg for handling prowess. Face it the GX is a top heavy pig and not really all that safe. I did not feel all that safe or comfortable in the one I checked out. If you have to have a Lexus SUV do yourself a favor and get the LX. Though it has gone down hill with the new Generation.
It did not even get picked in the long list of Top Safety Picks by the IIHS this year. The only large SUV that made the list is the VW Touareg. I am putting it on my list with the diesel engine. May be my next vehicle purchase. Face it Lexus RX & GX are suburb cruisers and nothing more. Probably a good choice for our road conditions in CA.
http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr122210.html
Mercedes: 216,448
(Mercedes plus Sprinter: 225,007)
BMW: 220,113
But remember, volume is not important, what counts is revenues, right folks? :P
For flagship models, the Lexus LS fell in the middle:
S-class: 13,608
Lexus LS: 12,275
BMW 7: 12,253
So they pushed those 27,000 sales up an average of about $8000. Think that's insignificant?
Gary, fintail, and explorerx4 would tell you otherwise. That alone means revenues would be up by $216,000,000. Yep, hundreds of millions.
On the contrary. I was very happy to see the solid built 4Runner doing well. It was supposed to be dumped according to posters that felt they were in the know. By the way the rebadged 4Runner sold as a GX by Lexus should have used the same body and they probably would not be so top heavy. Also the wider stance would have helped. Not sure how Lexus screwed up the GX so badly. :P
I doubt that the difference in profit is anywhere near what you are posting. What does it cost to build a cheapo Camry compared to a 4x4 SUV? Is the 4Runner built here or in Japan? That could add some cost also.
No way, the GX is an off-road capable body-on-frame truck.
It would compare more closely to a short wheelbase Escalade or Navigator.
Or maybe the discontinued Lincoln Aviator, or that Chrysler clone of the Durango, what was that called? Aspen.
X5 no way, no how.
Looks like those big December incentives paid off for Lexus. :P
They kept their title. I would be interested in the bottom line net profit for BMW, MB and Lexus. That is what is most important if you are an automaker.
Did you even read his post?
"For those of you who keeps on blaming the toyota driver for old, heart attack, panic, what have you, simple, now, find me just ONE similar SUA video of a Nissan, Honda, Hyundai, etc which behaved similarly.
"Try it. You will be hard pressed to find even one. And don't say Nissan, Honda, Hyundai etc don't have their share of old drivers. Don't say Nissan, Honda, Hyundai drivers are all in superb health !"
Come on.
The video link you provided in error was about electronics--which I agree is likely a source of part of the problem. :sick:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Why not? I am sure they are cross shopped. I know the GX would not compete off road with the Touareg, but then NO SUV can claim that.
That's because it wasn't tested yet.
Actually, out of the 4 tests required, IIHS only performed one of them, and indeed, the Lexus GX aced it.
So it's batting 1000 so far, let's see if IIHS conducts the other 3 tests.
You're forgetting...
The Lexus GX is not based on the 4Runner.
The GX is based on the Land Cruiser Prado sold in overseas markets.
Also, the 4Runner is V6 only, the GX is V8 only, so they do not share a powertrain either.
Not the same chassis.
Not the same body.
Not the same engine.
They have almost nothing in common.
Profit margins on trucks are much bigger.
I doubt Toyota makes any money at all on a Yaris.
So would I, but I'm sure Toyota will state profits for Toyota/Lexus/Scion combined. I bet they're up.
Anyone want to bet?
Burden of proof lies on the accuser.
Good luck proving the 87 year old who drove that erratically was not impaired in some way.
You're afraid to even answer my simple question - was he impaired?
The low range is no longer standard, and it's a lot more car-like now.
Much lighter, more fuel efficient, and I'm sure - more manicure-friendly for the new target buyer.
It's not the same Touareg as before.
I wonder what the average transaction price was for those luxobarges. FWIW, the S is just as old as the LS.
I added that because some people here think it should count.
No matter - either way Lexus was #1 in volume.
I would say that is batting .250.
Consumer Reports Says Lexus GX 460 Now Ok to Buy After Passing Retest
CR contacted the Lexus dealership from which they had anonymously bought the vehicle and made an appointment to have the recall work performed. The work took about an hour and a half.
Following that, CR's engineers again put the SUV through the full series of emergency handling tests. This time, the ESC system intervened earlier and its rear did not slide out in the lift-off oversteer test. Instead, the vehicle understeered -- or plowed -- when it exceeded its limits of traction,
So they fixed one problem and made another. I am glad we did not like that vehicle when we were in the market for our large SUV. My neighbor has one parked in his garage. I never see him drive it. Always drives his F250 crew cab. I need to ask him if he likes it.
Volume in one market, congrats. In many other parts of the world, the brand is almost a nonentity.
That is little consolation for the stock holders, when Toyota/Lexus/Scion went from Numero Uno to 3rd place overall in sales. Getting beat out by bankrupt GM and revitalized Ford.
I wonder where they are World wide? I think VW has taken over that spot. Hard to tell.
Then you would be biased.
The GX is 1 for 1. Perfect so far.
its rear did not slide out in the lift-off oversteer test
Exactly - a test that simulates driver error. Any good driver knows you slow BEFORE the turn, not in it.
You might want to tell that to BMW X car drivers that are chasing the 2011 Touareg in the Dakar race. I see VW, BMW, Hummer, Nissan and a Mini in the top 10. I don't see a Toyota closer than 30th place. Maybe the Toyota offroad prowess is history and or a myth.
Throughout automotive history, the vehicles that did well in racing, sell well in the market place. The Camry and Nascar kind of bears that out. Though I am sure gramps is disappointed when he goes to race from the stop light in his Camry, unless SUA takes over and gives him the ride of his life. :P
Also I would guess as you have pointed out, the Ford PU sales were much higher profit than the Camry sales. Ford sold about 200k more F series PU trucks than Toyota sold Camry the number one selling car. What was that figure you used to compare? Was it $8000 difference. Or if you are right that is about $1.6 billion more for Ford than Toyota.
TTAC
It was not a publicity scandal. It was a Toyota corporate scandal. They lied and tried to cover up their problems. They lied to Congress and got caught. The adverse publicity was of their own making. They deserve the loss in market share.
Toyota remained the best-selling retail brand for the third consecutive year
light trucks saved the day last year
That's what I said earlier today.
Lexus, meanwhile was the major bright spot in Toyota’s portfolio
Lexus’s SUVs and Crossovers were a big help last year
Funny (Gary beat me to it):
a major publicity scandal in the midst of a weakly-recovering market
And their conclusion:
Certainly those who predicted a “free-fall” in Toyota sales over the course of 2010 need to readjust their expectations.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/04/toyota-prius-exhaust-less-harmful-than-sheep-- emissions/
They actually should have compared to a horse.