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Comments
Rocky
Dump the Impala & Cobalt? Those are the number one & two best selling domestic sedans. They both are ahead of last year sales. Are you trying to put more nails in the UAW coffin. I think they need all the help they can get.
Not all UAW guys are getting the buyout. I work with a guy whose brother has 28 years at GM. He is working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, with no let-up in sight. He wants to work 2 more years and have his house, cars & boat paid off. He is in a category that did not get any buyout offer. I think in Bay City Michigan.
No, No, No, gagrice. I was saying those cars could be so much better than they are now. I'm talking about dominant.
Not all UAW guys are getting the buyout. I work with a guy whose brother has 28 years at GM. He is working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, with no let-up in sight. He wants to work 2 more years and have his house, cars & boat paid off. He is in a category that did not get any buyout offer. I think in Bay City Michigan.
Well he could take the early retirement. The cut off is July 15th of 06' you have to have 27 yrs. If you have 30 years in you are elgible for $35,000 bonus cash to retire.
If you have X number of years and seperate totally you can get $140,000 under X number of yrs. you can get $100,000. In all cases you get to keep your pension accurals. The deal is very sweet for some, but for someone like your friend he's better of staying. I would if I was in his shoes too.
Rocky
I think Saab's heritage is still alive. GM, promises to pump billions into the brand, and I believe in 5 years we will be talking about how great the Saab brand is. Saab in going to lead the way into the 21st century by being the "oil alternative" company :shades:
Maybe I will be wrong, but I do have confidence that GM will rebuild the brand and make it something special.
Rocky
The Sky, the Aura, the Outlook and the replacement for the ION (based on the European Astra) will all be in the showrooms in the next few years.
I, too, would like to see GM do something more with Saab other than to offer badge-engineered versions of the Impreza and TrailBlazer.
w9cw, I had a friend who also owned two "classic" Saabs - one an '85 900 Turbo that he bought new, the other was a '92 900S. The Turbo had, I think, something like 20K when I knew him in the mid 90's, and the 900S was his daily driver. He has the shop manuals for both, and probably every specialized tool needed to keep them running perfect (he was, and I suppose still is, a bit OCD).
I just finished a complete brake job on the '85, including a new master cylinder. All of it is really a "fun" job - not!! At least the clutch is easy to replace, since it sits directly aft of the radiator. As some of you may know, the classic SAABs engine is longintudinal, but 180 degress out-of-phase - the clutch forward and the drive belts, and the front of the engine, next to the firewall. The transaxle is beneath the engine, so it's a real mean task to replace a transmission!
Could of fooled me. We are in a recession, but we as a society are in denial. We like the government keep piling on the debt, thus driving the stockmarket up
Your Average American is making the same wages as he did in year 2000. That's not a form of recession :confuse:
I guess we all can pretend.....even as more americans lose health insurance, good paying jobs do to outsourcing, retirements being either cut, frozen, or done away with, Yep we can keep ignoring the real figures, and continue to just smile because everything is
honkey-dorey.
:sick:
Rocky
and it's not even a infection :mad: It's a virus they are saying now. I asked my wife if it might be the bird flu :P
Anyways, I didn't sleep very good last night as the virus went from mainly my head to my lungs, so I'm making lung biscuits and gravy with every cough. :lemon:
So basically the last 7 days of using a antibiotic has been a waste. :mad: They gave me a prescription of codeine :surprise: So I probably won't be on this afternoon.
I feel like Tyson had his way with me !!!!!
Now both kids have it :sick:
Rocky
No, it's deflation. Different critter (and outside the experience of anyone living today.)
So really it's not to much different. :sick:
Rocky
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060406/AUTO01/604060372/- 1148
I guess uncle Bill is trying to justify outsourcing by painting a warm cozy picture that he cares about human rights. :surprise: If he is sincere, then I applaud him.
I however I don't appluad him for trying to be an american company, while sending everything overseas and closing down plants. :mad:
Rocky
Well there was a huge recession in late 2000 until 2002. I bet the average american is making more than he did in 2002. I am. Just got back up to my 2000 level.
And I don't want to even think about the hit my S&P indexed 401(k) took during that period. I'm just getting back to 2000 levels there.
What exactly is deflation?
Back on topic: I completely understand the UAW's reticence to take the pay cut. However, the choice seems to be take the cut, or the company goes under and there are no jobs. Is Delphi bluffing? It seems to me that the UAW thinks it is.
I don't but I'm not in the industry either.
Inflation “A persistent, substantial rise in the general level of prices related to an increase in the volume of money and resulting in the loss of value of currency.”
Deflation “A fall in the general price level or a contraction of credit and available money.”
Actually the recession actually started in some industries in mid to late 1999. At the time I was working in Ohio as an advertisting marketing manager for a Ad Agency. Our clients were primarilly small manufacturers (tool and die, fab shops etc). Just about all my accounts cut their budgets significantly in mid to late'99 due to lower sales and increased pricing pressure. Things just continued to get worse thru '01.
Since I was paid based on revenue, my income dropped 50%. I didn't cry or whine, I changed jobs and my wife took a promotion that moved us out of Ohio thank god. If your prepared things generally work out.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060406/BUSINESS01/604060556
I'm not really worried about that. I think the media is exaggerating greatly the amount of engineering work being outsourced. I've always been of the belief that a vehicle should be engineered by engineers in the country the vehicle is intended for. It looks like that is what GM is doing in Asia and South America.
I wish more people would take that attitude.
If your prepared things generally work out.
Exactly. I was in pretty close to your situation. People need to learn to save for a rainy day rather than spend, spend, spend.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060406/BUSINESS01/604060556
I wish more people would take that attitude.
OK.... Maybe I whined a little before I decided to change jobs.
I'm not sure what the UAW is going to give up for sure. I will assume it will be just enought to satisfy both sides to avoid a strike. Maybe Rick will make a deal if they give up enough now, he will make it up to them later, after he (Rick) turns GM around to profitability.
I hope both sides can make it work.
We will see.
Rocky
P.S. did you see the meeting Rick had yesterday on GMtv
http://gmtv.feedroom.com/ifr_main.jsp?nsid=a-1d0baee9:10a770cd1e4:-6271&st=11444- 59115296&mp=WMP&cpf=true&fr=040706_091816_w1d0baee9x10a770cd1e4xw6270&rdm=372642- .28976061445
Are ya'll ok with this. It's not just UAW workers that will feel real affects guys/gals.
Rocky
Rocky
It seems to me that much of the "trouble" caused over foreign-born workers "taking" American jobs is media hype, scare-tactics, and empty rhetoric. With perhaps a dab of truth...
I certainly share your unease. As a tech worker, I was terrified a few years ago when the IT outsourcing stories were everywhere. It is uncomfortable to imagine a person with multiple degrees who could think me under the table, willing to work for wages that no human being (who needs to eat) could possibly survive on in the US. How could I compete? However, it turned out that tech out-sourcing was not the silver-bullet that companies had hoped for... which means that I still have a job for a while at least.
It is important to remember how large the world is and how complex economics can be.
For example, there have been similar labor scares for most of the past 100 years (dating back to the very first automated textile factories). Yet despite these, people have always emerged stronger and more prosperous. Not that this does not have its growing pains (horse-drawn carriage manufacturing workers probably wet themselves the first time they saw a car), but the overall trend seems clear to me.
Lacking any other evidence, I'm inclined to believe that the recent outsourcing scare is, similarly, more fear of the unknown than any actual threat to American livelihood.
Another point that I want to bring up about H1V visas... Some very intelligent, hard-working friends of mine have been forced to leave the country because nobody was willing to sponsor their visas. I can't possibly understand how it is in the best interests of the US to kick-out the best and brightest minds. We could really use that brainpower.
I have watched numerous bids submitted by a multinational engineering consortiums and watch them win.(They had an incredibly low FINAL bid). The result was a polyglot of engineering managers on this end with actual engineering being done overseas (Romania et.al.). (Engineers @ 20% our costs)
Being fair.I think that the final engineering documents were adequate given the lack of communication and understanding of our mfg. infrastructure. A good engineer, is a good engineer, ANYWHERE in the world. The problem is in the interpretation/translation of the requirements. The "managers" stateside created a real problem. Indian leaders trying to coordinate Romanian and Bialorusse engineering resources were a nightmare. End result ? Same cost for services with the "extras" with a time delay of 30% and a LOT of frustration. I think that they considered us part of their learning curve.
This issue illustrates that offshoring is happening, irrespective of whether there are unions. While the costs of UAW labor are not trivial, the ultimate motivation for companies to offshore is not whether the labor is unionized, but whether the companies can save money or increase profits by using labor abroad.
Even if there was no union, GM would still be building plants in Mexico, moving small car production to South Korea, and losing market share with mediocre products. Running the numbers above, you can see that without the union, GM would still be losing money, they would just be losing less of it. The solution to GM's problems lies in building cars that can be sold at retail, rather than dumped with steep discounting, and creating efficiencies so that its overall cost structure can be reduced, not just wages and benefits.
(By the way, to clarify the terminology, "offshoring" refers to companies having work performed at foreign facilities; "outsourcing" means having the work performed by contractors or subcontractors outside of your company. It is possible to offshore to employees on your own payroll (i.e. build and operate a plant abroad), and to outsource to a contractor in your own country. And of course, the two can be combined.)
It was on Lou Dobbs on CNN.
It seems to me that much of the "trouble" caused over foreign-born workers "taking" American jobs is media hype, scare-tactics, and empty rhetoric. With perhaps a dab of truth...
Well obviously your fenced off to many americans reality's.
140K H-1 Visa's isn't enough ? Now they want to increase the number to 290K. Why ? Foreign workers are cheaper to hire. It's like "off shoring" the work, but instead you can significantly reduce costs and keep the job here and the company doesn't have to pay federal income tax on the foreign worker. :sick:
I certainly share your unease. As a tech worker, I was terrified a few years ago when the IT outsourcing stories were everywhere. It is uncomfortable to imagine a person with multiple degrees who could think me under the table, willing to work for wages that no human being (who needs to eat) could possibly survive on in the US. How could I compete? However, it turned out that tech out-sourcing was not the silver-bullet that companies had hoped for... which means that I still have a job for a while at least.
Good for now, huh ?
It is important to remember how large the world is and how complex economics can be.
It's not to complex once you get past the smoke and mirrors.
For example, there have been similar labor scares for most of the past 100 years (dating back to the very first automated textile factories). Yet despite these, people have always emerged stronger and more prosperous. Not that this does not have its growing pains (horse-drawn carriage manufacturing workers probably wet themselves the first time they saw a car), but the overall trend seems clear to me.
Agree, but all signs are pointing we are going to go backwards on all the progressions. We hit are peak, and now we are going on a downward slide.
Lacking any other evidence, I'm inclined to believe that the recent outsourcing scare is, similarly, more fear of the unknown than any actual threat to American livelihood.
Tell my family that in Michigan, but I warn you to protect your cheeks.
Another point that I want to bring up about H1V visas... Some very intelligent, hard-working friends of mine have been forced to leave the country because nobody was willing to sponsor their visas. I can't possibly understand how it is in the best interests of the US to kick-out the best and brightest minds. We could really use that brainpower.
The majority of the best and brightest minds aren't coming over to the United States for work. Think about it ? Do you really think Japan or China, is going to let go it's best and brightest ? Seriously this is all part of the "smoke and mirrors" that supporters of illegal immigration, and cheap labor for corporate america, want you and I believe. :mad:
Rocky
P.S.
unknownmat, welcome aboard
The suit, filed in U.S. District Court for Michigan, claims that GM and the managers of its two retirement funds ignored the company's financial woes, causing employee investors to suffer huge losses.
The case involves two GM plans -- a personal savings plan for hourly employees, and a stock-purchase program for salaried employees -- both of which, plaintiffs said, hold large amounts of GM stock.
Plaintiffs' attorneys said Judge Nancy Edmunds stated in her ruling that GM had a duty to convey to its retirement plan members complete and accurate information about its true financial health -- something the suit claims the automaker failed to do.
The suit also claims that GM put its own interests above those of its employees by continuing to offer its stock as an investment option when, the plaintiffs say, it clearly was not a sound investment.
"It is our belief that GM and the investment fund committee sold out GM employees, plain and simple," said Steve Berman, co-lead counsel for the plaintiffs. "They stood motionless and mute while the stock's slide devastated the retirement savings of thousands."
A message seeking comment was left Friday with a GM spokeswoman
What this means to you: I suppose the UAW isn't the only ones upset at the current situation.
Rocky
Yes, they saw theirselves on those assembly lines and were happy to see theirselves on those lines. And not just for dollar signs...if they were already working building coaches no doubt a lot of them loved working with their hands.
Seeing an opportunity to help with Mr.Oldsmobile's new chariots of fire probably thrilled some of them, eh?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Doubt if there are many salaried who have any basis for this suit. The Salaried plan as it was did not force you into the 401K (optional) and you had many options to invest in within the 401k. I think that you did have to purchase some GM stock if you invested in the 401K but within a short time and you could move it into other stocks/mutual funds. Not sure this is exactly right though. Besides I think most employees know that GM stock has huge cyclic swings and investing in your own employees stock is very risky.
In rereading the statement I wonder if they are talking about something other than the 401k? Are they talking about the pension plan? If so I doubt that it held much GM stock. I knwo I have read that the pension plan has been doing well lately in its investments.
Not sure what the hourly plan is.
Retirement offers
GM and Delphi workers with 30 years can take $35,000 to retire now. Those with 27-29 years can get a monthly salary of up to $2,900 until they reach 30 years and then retire; at some plants, workers with 26 years are eligible.
Delphi employees eligible for the retirement offer can “flow back” to GM and retire from there.
Buyout offers
GM workers with 10 or more years of seniority can take $140,000 to sever all ties with the company.
GM workers with fewer than 10 years can take a lump sum of $70,000 to sever all ties.\
Other offers
As many as 5,000 Delphi workers can transfer to GM.
It was not the price/performance or any of that which made me not want to buy it.
I did not biy it because I looked at it.
The interior looked great,that big engine made me grin from ear to ear when I opened it up and it really did quite well on the back road farmland curves.
My problem was when I got out and looked at it.
This was not a GTO. It was something else with a V8 and that something looked like a Gran Am to me.
When you are driving down the road some day and spot a bright Yellow Grand AM or a G6 (hate to even insult that attempt at a good looking affordable car) with 2 pipes coming out the back and speed up to see what kind of a driver would put dual exhaust on a Grand AM, the GTO badge will cause you to make a double take.
Who wants to spend $33K on a car that looks like a Grand AM?
The problem with the GTO is that,unlike the CUDA,Challenger,Chevelle SS,Camaro,Mustang,etc.. it never had a great looking car to build upon when GM decided to re-introduce it.
I grew up during the pony car heyday and while I missed being of the age to buy one by only few years, my older brother's friends had quite a varied selection so I got to know and love these cars.
The GTO was another brainchild of that car genius John Delorean (meant as a compliment).
He said, lets stick a big V8 in a Pontiac Tempest,put dual exhaust pipes on it and give it a sexy Italian name - Gran Tourismo Orimagato (well, close enough from memory) and put the abbreiviation on the car so people will want to ask the owner what the 3 letters mean.
The GTO was all about the mystique from the car's 3 letter name to it's tree pulling v8
The GTO was an instant hit cause it was cheap and fast but it had a rather short sales life since there was only so much they could do with the Tempest Body to keep the car looking hot.
Those are the facts and now I move into opinions.
I can tell you that in the circle of friends that I grew up with in those days, it was Mopar's 7 cars,Chevy's 4 and Ford's single Mustang that ruled.
The GTO was not all that popular (again, in my circle of friends) nor was the Olds 4-4-2 (I am curious who knows what the 3 numbers stood for without Googling on it).
So we come full circle to 2005 and GM did not have anything to base their new GTO on because it did not have a unique body style from history to use,unlike Ford did with the Mustang or Dodge did with the Challenger or Nssan did with the 240Z/350Z,and so on).
Twas such a shame. Ford can not keep that awfull retro look car in stock yet no one wants a GTO.
At least it looks like GM learned there lesson with the Camero prototyp that was shown at the Detroit show.
Rocky
http://management.about.com/cs/generalmanagement/a/CEOsOverpaid.htm
Rocky
Look at these pension plans, compared to it's hourly workers. :surprise:
Rocky
http://www.aflcio.org/aboutus/ns01142003.cfm
Rocky
That is a cost figure I saw on Lou Dobbs. It's a dead loss for the american taxpayer, because do you really think these folks are going to get jobs where they have insurance. They will be on every social program we have in this country and it's their reward for breaking are law.
My gawd are politicians are insane for allowing this to happen. They are running scared because a small minority of the population is screaming racism, and of course corporate america, is licking their chops because it's cheap labor. :confuse:
The statistic that you are citing (if it is a citation) is like saying the town is losing money because people shop in the next town or people in the neighboring towns are allowed to work in your town . . . proposterous arguments that only a braindead bureaucrat can think up . . . indicative of bought-and-paid-for ivory tower statisticians that have no concept of real living standards of individual families.
Apples and Oranges brightness. What benefit do illegal aliens offer to the overall good of this country ?
I can't even name you 1, and we are going to give them amnesty :sick:
I guess Joe-Six-Pack is out of a job.
Rocky
So they're willing to sell their own people down the drain to gain votes.
There is a PC movement that doesn't want to call them illegal and tries to make it wrong that they aren't welcomed here even though they're illegal! The Meet the Press probably is repeated tonight sometime on MSNBC-everyone should watch the twisting of the PC bunch.
The healthcare and social costs of the illegals in this area is high and we have relatively few. There was a Mexican embassy representative giving out Mexican citizen cards and they have 500 show up in Dayton. This is another method of legitimizing their presence in the US illegally--giving them a card from Mexico that indicates they are Mexican citizens and hinting that gives them rights while here.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I agree Welch was a good buisness CEO, from a money maker standpoint. I sure wouldn't want the dirt he has, on my hands.
Rocky
Rocky
What benefit do illegal aliens offer to the overall good of this country ?
You'd be very surprised by just how many people working for any booming industry (from construction to medicine to entertainment) are "illegal aliens" (actually, free men and women) from Mexico and Canada, among others. They are some of the most flexible sources of labor. The simple truth is that Joe-Six-Pack American can not live on paper money alone . . . All that paper money printed by our federal reserve system has to be cashed in for goods and services that we average Americans do need . . . that's where the imported goods and labor come in: they are the ones and things that we actually aquire to make our lives enjoyable. Having 60k a year wage does not mean squat if that 60k can not buy any goods or services; may as well be 60k pesos or 60k rubles.
(1) constantly having to find new ways to compete is what makes an economy vibrant and on the leading edge (hence command a higher income for its participants); duplicators always have to deal with even cheaper duplicators.
(2) the price that GM can command on any car follows the conventional supply and demand rules. Over-supply leads to lower price and hence the need for discount. Union contracts that stipulate full pay regardless whether cars are being produced lead to over-supply because the cost structure becomes such that it would cost even more money to cut back production than producing at loss.
Here's the facts that you should of said.
Big Buisness, is supporting the illegal alien agenda so they have a ample supply's of cheap "flexible" labor pools to draw from. No Benefits or Retirements, and in many cases no taxes.
Politcians, are supporting the illegal alien agenda because they want the minority votes.
These are just two of the many corrupt reasons why this immigration amnesty is getting all the media attention.
Joe-Six-Pack, will be affected by the illegal immigration amnesty, because he/she has to compete for some of the same jobs as the illegal aliens.
Construction company's hire illegal aliens from
"day-labor" sites to get the cheapest help possible, thus putting an american construction worker out of a job.
The next step will be hirring former illegal aliens to work in our factory's like GM, thus putting Joe Factory Rat out of a job. 26% of the jobs in this country are manufactoring jobs, and giving amnesty to the 20 million illegal aliens will allow them to undercut american citizens that currently have these jobs. Many illegal aliens will stay in the U.S. and work, while sending large portions of there checks back to there family's across the border. I also find it amusing and sad, that these pro-immigration folks that supposably love this country so much are the same ones that wave mexican flags at these protest locations. :sick:
brightness, I guess I shouldn't be amazed that you support them, since you probably want to get your hands on this cheap flexible labor pool to "pad" your company's pockets. I really question peoples patriotism and morality in this country that believe in open borders. The sad thing is these are the same people that say out the otherside of there mouths say they are for strong national security, law enforcement, military, and are against drugs and crime.
It's all lip service, while the true agenda lies underneath all the smoke and mirrors.
Rocky
Do you really think the 4.8% of unemployed citizens would take on the jobs left by 12 million illegal aliens? I am for tighter border security. Then when they slow the flow to a trickle we can start weeding out the criminal element and identifying the ones that are useful to our society. If we put a concerted effort into resolving this issue, it would probably be 10 years before we saw much difference.
It is a cross border "keeping up with the Jones's". Satellite TV has opened up the World's eyes to what we take for granted. Literally millions of people want what we have and are willing to die trying to get a piece of the American lifestyle.