Acura TSX vs Lexus IS 250

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Comments

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
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  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Sorry Pat, let me try this again...

    "Look at the summary sheets at the back of each magazine (Car and Driver, Road and Track, Motor Trend, etc.) or look at their web sites for the info."

    Ninjaguy, you're the one who said the IS250 is "more poweful" than the TSX.

    I looked at the latest mainstream magazines and on the internet and I couldn't find any comparisons between the engine performance of the IS250 vs the TSX. On the web, I did find one test of the IS250 (no comparisons with other cars though) at Yahoo Cars UK. This test indicated that the IS250 has 204 HP and accelerates from 0-60 MPH in 7.9 secs (The TSX beats both of these figures).

    http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/lexus-is250-1004916.html

    Please throw me a bone here - can you at least tell me which magazines have done this testing, and which issues I should look at?
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    Gathering performance based info from several sources to comapre two cars is not reliable. A lot of factors have to be considered such as testing procedures, road, tires, weather, elevation etc. Lest wait for a specific comaprison done by the media before we make a conclusion.
    OTOH Car and Driver's review of the IS 250 said that its 0-60mph is at or near 7secs. Not enough to support that its better than the TSX.
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    I dunno if anybody here has taken the time to equip the Lexus IS 250 so that it has equivalent options to the Acura TSX. In order to make them somewhat equal you have to add one of the luxury packages (I used the cheapest one) and the Levinson Pkg to the Lexus.

    Sticker on the Lexus: $ 36,185
    Sticker on the Acura: $ 28,505

    Difference is $7,680

    Now if you consider that you can get a TSX for about $1,000 (some folks are paying $500) over invoice (around $27,500) while the Lexus is selling at sticker you are talking about a difference of $8,685. :confuse: You gotta like the Lexus A LOT to pay nearly $9K more. For me it was an easy decision.
  • dc_davedc_dave Member Posts: 52
    I think in most metro areas you can have a TSX for $400-500 over invoice. I just got mine on Sunday for $500 over. Black/ebony w/o navi...what a sweet car! I'm impressed with the build quality and ride quality.

    Dave in VA
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "I dunno if anybody here has taken the time to equip the Lexus IS 250 so that it has equivalent options to the Acura TSX."

    How is a $4,000 surround audio and nav package the "equivalent" to the base TSX audio system?!?!

    They may trade a few features with each other (the TSX has heated seats and the Lexus has SmartAccess), but overall I think they are equivalent without adding anything.
  • ninjaguyninjaguy Member Posts: 21
    I agree that they are somewhat equivalent without adding any options. The MSRP of the TSX is $28,505 and the IS250 is 31,750. However, the TSX has zenon headlights and the power seat memory system that are only available in $3500+ option packages for the IS that would cost about $1K if sold individually. Is the IS worth the additional #3K ($4K to $5K more based on actual selling prices). I don't think so.
  • ninjaguyninjaguy Member Posts: 21
    Agree that performance numbers by different organizations can be different. From what I remember, the IS250 is about 1 sec faster 0-60. The IS is not worth the $3K-5K additional cost.
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    You can get the Mark Levinson without Nav., and that's what I added, it's $900. What makes the TSX and the IS equal in terms of options is the Luxury Pkg. on the Lexus which is around $3,500. Here is the description of the Luxury pkg.

    Luxury Package
    Includes perforated leather seats, heated and ventilated front seats, 3-position driver and passenger seat memory, outside electrochromatic mirrors with memory and reverse tilt, steering wheel memory, illuminated scuff plates, wood interior trim, power rear sunshade, high intensity discharge (HID) headlamps and rain sensing wipers.

    Similar options to the TSX... perforated leather, heated seats, seat memory, wood trim, HID headlamps.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    The IS250 base stereo is a 13 speaker setup with 6-disc in dash CD changer. The TSX only has 8 spekers. They're basically equivalent.

    The IS250 with Luxury Package has ventilated seats, memory settings for the passenger seat, outside mirrors, steering wheel, and reverse-tilt outside mirror, illuminated scuff plates, genuine wood trim, power rear sunshade, bi-xenons, and rain sensing wipers. The TSX has none of these...
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    Yes, the Luxury Pkg does have a few things that are not found in the TSX, but if you don't add the Luxury Pkg. to the Lexus, then the Acura is better equipped. So, in the sake more equality it makes sense to add it.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    The base IS250 doesn't have fewer standard features than the TSX, just different features. So, I guess it depends on which features are important to the individual.

    For example, if you want heated seats, you'll have to buy them on the Lexus. If you want SmartAccess, it's not offerred on the TSX.

    The base Lexus also includes Bi-Xenon headlights, Knee airbags, and Brake Assist, which are also not available on the Acura.

    Six of one, a half-dozen of the other...
  • ninjaguyninjaguy Member Posts: 21
    I did some research today. The Lexus web page and hardcopy brochure claim 7.9 secs for 0-60 for both IS 250 M/T and A/T models (surprisingly the same). Neither the Acura web page nor hardcopy brochure contain performance data. For the TSX, Car and Driver web page listed 7.2 sec for 0-60 with a M/T (2004 model), the Motor Trend web page listed 8.1 sec with a M/T (2004 model), the Consumers Guide web page listed 7.9 sec with a M/T (2006 model), and the Nov 2004 issue of Consumer Reports listed 9.2 sec with an A/T. Thus the IS 250 and TSX M/T models have about the same acceleration, but with A/T models, the IS 250 is over a second faster. I have only driven the A/T models, and the IS 250 is definitely more powerful than the TSX.
  • sosksosk Member Posts: 42
    An internet salesman told me you can't get a 250 with the luxury package (I'm trying to have it match & pass the TSX with options), but looking at the brochure, it looks like you can. Does anybody know anything about this?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "I did some research today. The Lexus web page and hardcopy brochure claim 7.9 secs for 0-60 for both IS 250 M/T and A/T models (surprisingly the same)."

    So in other words, you discovered that there are no magazine tests of the IS250...

    As I said before, until these two cars are tested side by side (same day, same track, same driver), it's just a guess which one is quicker than the other.

    As far as engine power goes, until someone publishes a dyno chart for the IS250's V-6(there are several for the TSX), there's no way to know how it delivers it's power (how much space is "beneath the curve"). The shape of the curve is, in many ways, more important than the height of the peak.
  • harrybush00harrybush00 Member Posts: 76
    The bigger difference between the A/T models is probably due to the 250 getting a 6-speed unit vs. the 5-speed on the TSX.
  • ninjaguyninjaguy Member Posts: 21
    What can't you accept actual driving and test experiences? The bottom line is that there is not that much of a difference in acceleration between the 2 cars (as compared with the IS250 and IS350). I have driven both the IS250 A/T and the TSX A/T. With A/Ts, the IS is more powerful; it feels like a 6 cylinder, the TSX feels like a 4 cylinder. If the manufacturer publishes performance specs, they are usually accurate and even conservative because they do not want to be accused of false advertising. In summary, the M/T IS250 and TSX have similar acceleration, but the A/T IS250 is definitely quicker than the A/T TSX.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "What can't you accept actual driving and test experiences?"

    Well first off, the Lexus hasn't been tested by an unbiased source yet (where are all those specs at the back of the magazines that you told me about?). The Lexus provided numbers are suspect because nobody knows how Lexus tested the car, what type of road was used, the weather conditions, etc.

    Another problem I have is Lexus publishing the same numbers for both MT and AT. Unless it's a DSG/SMG type transmission, an AT car will almost always be slower and less powerful than an MT.

    I can't accept your seat of the pants "feeling" that the Lexus is more powerful because I don't know you or your seat of the pants. The human proprioceptive system is easily fooled (throttle response, cabin noise, engine noise, suspension tuning, steering weight, etc. all conspire to influence your "feeling" about how a car performs. It's virtually impossible to make an accurate conclusion about how powerful a car is based on a brief test drive.

    But our initial discussion was about your claim that the Lexus is "more powerful" because it has "more torque." My only objection to this statement is that you don't know how torquey the Lexus is until you see a chart of the torque output across the entire powerband. The TSX is a very tough car to beat because, although it peaks at 20 ft lbs less than the Lexus, it generates 90% of peak power from 2000 all the way to 7000 RPM.

    All I'm saying is let's not jump to conclusions about engine output until we see the Lexus torque curve.
  • ninjaguyninjaguy Member Posts: 21
    Fedlawman:
    I also wondered about the same 0-60 time (M/T and A/T) on the Lexus web page and in the IS brochure. Road and Track has the car performance summaries near the end of the magazine. Their 0-60 number for the IS350 is 6.0, somewhat slower than tests from other magazines or claimed from Lexus (5.3). Road and Tracks' 0-60 time for the M/T 330i does match BMW's claim (6.2 vs. 6.1).

    Based on the magazines' TSX tests with a M/T and Lexus' claim, the 2 cars have about the same performance. I have only driven the A/T versions of the TSX and IS250 (actually the AWD version), and the IS is definitely quicker (the IS350 and 330i are in a different league). When my son bought his TSX 1 1/2 half yrs ago, I also drove the TSX, IS300, and Accord (all with A/T), and the TSX was definitely less powerful than the other 2 cars. These test drives were with the salesman in the car, so the test drive did not provide the capability to really "drive like heck." However, my comparison with the IS250 is different because I drove it at the Taste of Lexus (autocross track setup) and have driven my son's TSX several hundred miles. With the HP essentially the same, and the TSX about 100 lbs lighter than the IS, the difference with the A/T would seem to be the torque. I would speculate that the IS250 torque curve is also relatively flat over a large RPM band, too. The engines that tend to have the narrow torque band at high RPMs tend to be the very high revving, high HP in line 4s such as in the Acura RSX Type S and the Honda S2000.

    Are you interested in an A/T or M/T? Although FWD, the TSX handles just as well as the IS and is a much better value. Recommend going to the dealers and trying them out. Just make sure you appear to be serious about buying when you visit the dealers, they might even let you drive without the salesman with you (maybe on a 2nd visit). See the February issue of Car and Driver for tips on "getting that new car test drive."
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I'm not saying you're wrong, just pointing out that you are making some assumptions that are subjective.

    I have not driven the IS250 yet, so I can't speak from experience about it's power delivery, but I will concede that the TSX with AT is a slug. I owned a TSX with 6MT for 2 years, and based on my "seat of the pants," my own comparison testing with a G-Tech last summer, and having read dozens of magazine tests, I'm confident that the TSX with MT is a low 7 sec car from 0-60, and mid 15 sec car in the 1/4 mile. At the track, it's nimble handling and high rev limit make it an entertaining and capable sedan. On the other hand, my uncle owns a TSX with AT and I find it to be pretty lifeless and uninspiring - almost like it's a completely different car. I'm confident that the RWD IS250 with AT will prove to be the quicker car.

    I realize many people are considering these cars with the AT, and I won't comment on their performance (such as it is) anymore. Personally, I believe that if you want an AT, just get an Accord or Camry.

    To me, driving a sport sedan with an AT is akin to listening to Saint Saens Symphony No. 3 on an I-Pod.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    "To me, driving a sport sedan with an AT is akin to listening to Saint Saens Symphony No. 3 on an I-Pod."

    First prize for the best analogy on Edmunds in months (if not longer.) :)
  • rooskierooskie Member Posts: 26
    My wife has a '06 TSX, Milano Red, no Nav. And an AT. She loves the way it handles, rides and looks. She could care less about 0-60 or 1/4- mile times.

    Bottom line: Drive what you want based on what's important to you, not what's important to someone else.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "Bottom line: Drive what you want based on what's important to you, not what's important to someone else."

    I agree. My uncle loves his AT TSX too (meteor silver w/nav).

    P.S. Thanks Imacmil. :blush:
  • hull22hull22 Member Posts: 31
    And for those of us who can't drive stick, but still want a sporty sedan, it's a good option. I know, I should learn how to drive one sometime.
  • ninjaguyninjaguy Member Posts: 21
    fedlawman:
    My opinions may be subjective because I did not compare them with a stopwatch, but they are based on real driving experiences. When I first drove the A/T TSX, I immediately noticed a difference between it and my wife's Camry V6. With the TSX rated at 200 HP (2005 in 2006) and the Camry at 192, I had expected the performance to be similar, but it's not, the Camry is more powerful. However, the TSX is much more fun to drive. I have a M/T Integra (I have never driven the A/T Integra, but I assume that it would be a "dog" due to the small engine displacement), and I was surprised that the TSX handles better than my Integra because the TSX is the Accord that is sold in the rest of the world. I guess this shows that the American public prefers softer riding cars and the "Americanized" Accord, and the rest of the world prefers "sporty handling cars."

    So in summary, I would expect the IS250 and TSX with M/Ts to be close in acceleration, but based on my experience driving both cars, there is definitely a noticeable difference with A/Ts. Nevertheless, the TSX with either a M/T or A/T is a better value than the IS250.

    I am planning on replacing my Integra in 2007. Having always had M/Ts, I have gotten "lazy" and am planning on buying an A/T. The leading candidates are G35 (next generation to be announced at the New York Auto Show in April), TL (but I like the TSX styling better), IS250/350 (overpriced), and 325i/330i (overpriced). Maybe I'll end up with a TSX????
  • inkyofokinkyofok Member Posts: 62
    TSX accord 6mt, Jetta 6mt, three I car about in FEB test. Very surprised C D (10 best TSX) picked Accord. The sheer power of the 244 V-6, lower price and larger size conspired to knock TSX down. My buddy has an Accord 6mt sedan and it is fast with great torque but I was a little less fun to drive and the clutch did engage high.

    I have a 04 TSX 6mt and a nice basic set up. I may seek out a 06 6mt (dealers in OK never have them) in a few months. Special order locate.

    When I test drive a 04 AT it was not even as fast as Accord AT to me. Tranny simply had no way to grab the power.

    Finally, 6 mt are worth about $700 less than AT despite same initial cost. Of course we all know why.

    Oh, I stopped at Lexus and 6mt IS250 white sitting all alone. I would consider one with no options but this one was $40,000!!!!!! Loaded BMW or base IS350 makes sense here.
    Nav, Mark L. Sport Package......did not drive but after reading 6mt opinions--can you imagine being stuck with a $40k lexus of 204 HP!!! It would never be sellable. Akin to 92 Lexus ES300 MT. A nice set up but no market. I saw one in my life and made one or two years max.

    Back to Accord. Can you imagine the V-6 in the TSX. Accord can be had for $25k, TSX $26.5K, add autodiming mirror and fogs to accord, miss bluetooth, memory seat and HID but Accord does appear a better value and regular gas, most likely better gas mileage despite EPA (gearing).
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    Lexus was always know as the "affordable luxury" company. Their strength was always to offer products that were cheaper and more luxurious than their German competitors. I am surprised that Lexus is doing away with "affordable luxury" and attacking the German automakers by playing in their price range. The IS250 is the perfect example. The former IS was an affordable alternative (even though it missed the mark) to the BMW 3 series. The new IS is now in the 325i's price range and to be honest that is very risky. Personally, I would take the 325i over the Lexus since the BMW is still the benchmark in the category. Lexus is doing the the same thing with their new LS 460, the price will be close to a Mercedes S class.
  • sosksosk Member Posts: 42
    I am planning on replacing my Integra in 2007. The leading candidates are G35, TL (but I like the TSX styling better), IS250/350 (overpriced), and 325i/330i (overpriced). Maybe I'll end up with a TSX????

    Ninjaguy, your list looks identical to mine, except I'm more interested in the TSX than the TL. I came really close to buying an '05 330i (I like the old style 3-series over the new), but for just everyday driving to work & back (7 miles down 1 street), I really would like more interior niceties than BMW offers. At that price range, it seems to me that a car these days should have a CD changer and ANY sort of security system. The G35 coupe is my favorite on the exterior, and I loved how it handled, but the one I drove had a lot of wind noise that I think would drive me crazy after a while. I wonder if it was just that 1 car & maybe I should go back & try again?

    Right now it's between the TSX & IS250 (TL is longer than I want). Fortunately I want to buy in the spring or summer, or even fall, so hopefully the price on the IS will come down a bit. I feel like I should go with the TSX because of its value, but it doesn't excite me the way the IS did. I drove A/T versions of both cars & felt the IS was a bit quicker. I do so little highway driving though; I just want to be sure I can get on & maneuver easily. I tend to keep my cars a solid 10 years or so - I don't want to buy one and later feel any buyer's remorse.
  • redbugeyeredbugeye Member Posts: 16
    Are these graphs what you are referring to?

    http://lexus.jp/models/is/performance/powerunit.html
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Good find redbugeye!

    The torque curve on Toyota's 2.5L looks impressive. It looks like it's powerful from idle to about 6000 RPM (it's hard to see the graph closely) than Honda's 2.4L engine, although power does drop off sooner.

    If the IS weighed a couple hundred pounds less, the decision between these two would be a lot tougher.
  • tawneycattawneycat Member Posts: 114
    Once again, That price speaks for itself for a 204 hp car no less. I really think a base 6mt IS250 is not findable.
    I saw a cloth, RX300 once with no sunroof. Once in all my life I saw one at a gas station. Only because they have to make one if asked too.
  • biker4biker4 Member Posts: 746
    Lexus has the marketing gimick down pat - lure buyers with a relatively low base price but then sell the higher priced model on the lot.
    The only way to get around it is to find a willing dealer and special order.
  • jkwrightjkwright Member Posts: 2
    My wife and I finally settled on an '06 TSX 6MT/Navi for her after several months of debate. We drove a dozen or more cars including the IS250 6AT (couldn't find a manual anywhere) and came away impressed with the dynamics and quality of that car. The price we would've paid, however, was comparatively outrageous to the TSX. Or the TL for that matter. Or my '05 G35 6MT sedan. Or just about any non-German entry-luxury sedan.

    Speedracer3's questioning of Lexus' relatively new premium-car/premium-pricing strategy is fair I think. Dog-butted-slow $36K IS250s with teeny back seats will languish on dealer lots after the initial newness wears off. They'll be able to carry sales of the IS350 at $40K plus because the car offers class-leading performance. But I think Lexus will find that few people will pay the kind of money they're asking for the IS250 to get a smaller, slower car than virtually every vehicle in its class just because there's an "L" stuck on the front of it.

    By the way, based on my SOTP-o-Meter, the IS250 6AT I drove would blow an '06 TSX 5AT into the weeds in a stoplight race. And that's not saying much, because that Lexus was a slow little thing. Made all the right noises though and drove like glass. The TSX 6MT is an entirely different animal, however, and I think would show its taillights without much trouble even though it's only a low- to mid-15-second car. Lexus made a BIG mistake sticking that dinky little V6 in the IS250 and offering it at $29,995 for the 6MT model, yet requiring nearly $10K worth of options to get apples-to-apples with the TSX.

    My two cents is that anyone who pays $38K for a reasonably optioned IS250 is someone I'd like to meet, as I have various and sundry products I need to unloa... ah, sell.
  • jkwrightjkwright Member Posts: 2
    My wife and I finally settled on an '06 TSX 6MT/Navi for her after several months of debate. We drove a dozen or more cars including the IS250 6AT (couldn't find a manual anywhere) and came away impressed with the dynamics and quality of that car. The price we would've paid, however, was comparatively outrageous to the TSX. Or the TL for that matter. Or my '05 G35 6MT sedan. Or just about any non-German entry-luxury sedan.

    Speedracer3's questioning of Lexus' relatively new premium-car/premium-pricing strategy is fair I think. Dog-butted-slow $36K IS250s with teeny back seats will languish on dealer lots after the initial newness wears off. They'll be able to carry sales of the IS350 at $40K plus because the car offers class-leading performance. But I think Lexus will find that few people will pay the kind of money they're asking for the IS250 to get a smaller, slower car than virtually every vehicle in its class just because there's an "L" stuck on the front of it.

    By the way, based on my SOTP-o-Meter, the IS250 6AT I drove would blow an '06 TSX 5AT into the weeds in a stoplight race. And that's not saying much, because that Lexus was a slow little thing. Made all the right noises though and drove like glass. The TSX 6MT is an entirely different animal, however, and I think would show its taillights without much trouble even though it's only a low- to mid-15-second car. Lexus made a BIG mistake sticking that dinky little V6 in the IS250 and offering it at $29,995 for the 6MT model, yet requiring nearly $10K worth of options to get apples-to-apples with the TSX.

    My two cents is that anyone who pays $38K for a reasonably optioned IS250 is someone I'd like to meet, as I have various and sundry products I need to unloa... ah, sell.
  • biker4biker4 Member Posts: 746
    Lexus is pretty smart about this - they've adopted the BMW startegy of rolling out cars. Offer just enough to lure in the initial buyers (IS250, GS300) and then offer something better to make folks sitting on the sidelines happy (IS300, GS350).

    Yes, there are a few suckers that will pluck down $38K for an underpowerd IS250, but by this time next year they'll be gone and Lexus will have moved on. I wonder what resale value will look like on an IS250 next year when an IS300 wioll have the same price and offer more features standard. :lemon:
  • cmschmiecmschmie Member Posts: 27
    Would you mind letting us in on how much you paid for your TSX (or even a price range if you don't want to give specifics)? I am interested in the same (6spd, Nav).
    What accessories did you get with this?

    Thanks

    Yes Mr. Postmaster I understand that there is a "Prices Paid" forum, but I can't pass up this opportunity to find out info on the exact car I am looking at.
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Member Posts: 102
    I think with NAV equipped on both cars the difference is
    about $6000 not $9000.

    For the value I would think TSX might be a better pick if your budget is tight. However. Lexus is a different class It's much better in quality and status/appeal as compared to Acura. FYI...JD Power Associates ranks TSX only 3 stars (no Acura model is rated higher than 3) whereas the IS as well at other Lexus models got 5 stars rating over all
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    What is a star?
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    JD Power = bleah! :(
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    Well, my car has a sticker that says Motor Trend's car of the year. Does yours have that? :P Did I mention my wife was prettier than your wife. ;)
  • biker4biker4 Member Posts: 746
    If one is a badge chaser no amount of objective facts will sway that person. Only uninformed persons would ever buy a car based on someone else's opinion.

    Other than the platform difference there's little to seperate these two cars. The cost diff (at the manufacturing level) between these cars is probably less than 2K.
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Member Posts: 102
    "If one is a badge chaser no amount of objective facts will sway that person. Only uninformed persons would ever buy a car based on someone else's opinion."

    Well-said..you got a valid point there. However, I do trust JD Power Associates and CR's data.And of course only such a fool would purchase a car that is solely based on someone else's opinion. Simply put, an uninformed buyer will leave that factor ( data from CR & JD ) out of their decision making.
  • iomasteroiiomasteroi Member Posts: 1
    I am comparing the vehicle and hoping to buy within the new few weeks. Here is my comparison for the two vehicles. The following includes the Navigation upgrade for 250 and Navigation upgrade for TSX. The advantage of each car shown:

    TSX:

    Operate navigation while driving
    Back seats fold down
    AT sports shift more responsive (in my opinion)
    Memory Seats
    Better Voice Commands
    HID Lights
    Fold Down seat in the back
    Easier to hack GPS (a big plus for me)

    250:
    Backup Camera
    Better looking navigation graphic (note, I think Acura navigation is still superior)
    Engine push start
    Paddle Shift
    6 Speeds
    Better Turning Radius
    Less Cabin Noise
    More Passenger Adjustable seat position
    Compass on rearview (TSX should have on navigation screen though)
    Tire Pressure Monitor

    I have read through postings and mostly heard about pro TSX opinions. Anybody would say the extra features in 250 is worth the extra 5 grand or not? Any TSX owner wish they have bought the 250?

    I don't really want to compare performance because I have driven both cars and believe that they are pretty similar. I am not going to race the vehicle so no need to argue which one has 1 second faster 0 - 60 and stuff.
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    The importance of the stuff you list is pretty subjective. Only you can decide if it's important to you.

    I bought my car before the IS came out, but, if I was looking today, I'd still opt for the TSX. I just prefer the Acura's intentions over those of the IS line. I don't need too many bells and whistles.

    If I'm going to get into a car in the IS's price range, it's going to be a Bimmer not a Lexus. Just my $.02. :shades:
  • notjafonotjafo Member Posts: 63
    I test drove the IS250, and just bought a TSX - non-nav, manual. I think you probably should have listed the $5,000 less expensive for the TSX as the first advantage because once you do I doubt there is any way that you can look at the substantive "advantages" you list for the IS250 and get anywhere near that amount. I also wanted a manual, so the IS250 was out for that reason as well. It may be that the AT IS is better than the AT TSX, but I can't say not having driven the AT TSX.

    An additonal factor against the IS250 is that it is a much smaller car, or at least feels that way. The trunk in the IS is minimal. for a car this size, and the big center console, which adds to the cockpit feeling, made the car seem small. I also thought the visibility was worse in the IS, and I'm over 6ft.

    You didn't list AWD for the IS, which was my primary motivation for looking at it.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    I have been test driving cars for about a week - so far have looked at the TSX - IS 250/350 - C230 - 325i - G35 - CTS 2.8 - Accord Coupe & sedan and the Civic sedan.(all automatics)

    My wife loves the way the TSX looks - BEFORE the test drive she said - I want a TSX - it was at the top of her list - the test drive was a big let down for both of us.

    The IS 250 has SO MUCH better handling - better ride (firm but not harsh) it is a complete joy to drive - the engine is so smooth. THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF THE TSX -

    We have taken the TSX OFF our list - and think it is WAY over priced for what you get.

    Sure the IS 250 costs an extra $5K - that is hard to justify - but

    If things like lower price - bigger trunk - more room in the back seat are the main factors in your decision (nothing wrong with that BTW) then I would go look at the Accord V6 - it beats the TSX in value - trunk and rear seat space. Plus by my seat of the pants test - the V6 Accord would STOMP the TSX in a race - In fact I felt the 2006 Civic has better road feel than the TSX - MUCH better steering - and the ride was about the same. The TSX does feel faster than the Civic - but the EXTRA $10,000 in price should get you something.

    I look at it this way - Honda keeps making things better - the Civic is a new model - MUCH better than the model it replaced. The TSX has been around for a few years - so that is what you are getting - an old design. Honda really needs to update the TSX - I just don't see how it can compete -
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    You are entitled to like whatever car you like, but you made some comments that need addressing. I think you are way off base calling the TSX overpriced, find a car with the same options as a TSX for the same price. Good luck. You are comparing a TSX to a Honda Civic? That's insane. I am starting to wonder if you actually drove a TSX at all. BTW...the TSX was introduced in 2004, it is hardly an "old design".
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Member Posts: 102
    Never drove TSX but I did try out TL. To be frank, I would say that even with more horsepower and toys equipped, the TL does not give me the great feeling/pleasure found while driving Lexus and BMW. The tranmission & engine are not as smooth as Lexus or responsive like BMW. I am also not so sure if I like the TL's exterior but I removed it off my list after finding out that TL has an airbags recall for 2005/2006 model. I am sure many others will have different opinions and I am not surprised if more folks opt for TL over Lexus or BMW when it comes to value.
  • notjafonotjafo Member Posts: 63
    The TSX AT is a different car that the TSX MT. I ruled out the IS both because of price and because it lacks a MT option.

    I prefered the TSX to the TL - and to the Accord EX 6spd/6cyl. There is an entire forum here dedicated to the Accord v TSX and I won't repeat what is there, but on features you can more clearly see why the TSX costs more than the Accord - and this isn't a knock, the Accord is a great fast car, spacious and comfortable, but it does not drive as well as the TSX nor is it as easy to find one relative to the TSX (two very, very, large Honda dealers are near me, and one of them had one.) If I didn't get the TSX, I would have bought the EX on the lot.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    I don't know how else to say it - I drove all the cars listed (plus a few others - the MDX & X5). Wife had already made her decision - she wanted the TSX - we were both surprised how poor it performed on the test drive.

    If it makes you feel better calling me a liar - then go for it - the fact that you bought a TSX tells me how much you know about cars!

    Have you driven the 2006 civic? Go drive one - it handles better than the TSX - the ride (as in how it feels going over bumps) is about the same - but the road feel - Civic MUCH better.

    Sure the TSX was new in 2004 - but based on the European market Honda Accord - what year did that car hit the market - was it 2001 - 2002? That is what I mean by old design.

    If saving money and a large trunk and back seat are important go drive the Accord - if GREAT handling and real Luxury are most important (and money is not that big a problem) then go buy the IS 250.

    If you want a 2001 European Honda Accord then the TSX is your dream car!

    My prediction - both the next RSX and TSX will be based on the 2006 NA Honda Civic platform.
This discussion has been closed.