Its official: Volvo C30-What do you think?

carson2

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2005/12/volvo-c30-concept.html

This is Volvo's contendor to the BMW 1 Series, Mercedes SportsCoupe and Audi A3 -very popular category in Europe. Rekmove the fancy-kich- brown bumpers and this is the actual production car. Like its exterior design. Good that the left the S40 inerior. Whats ur opinion. can Ford group hit the Germans??

jchan2

Here's the problem:
Where will it be price wise? The S40 is already pretty inexpensive starting at $23,700ish, how far lower can they go?

Does anybody remember the BMW 318ti of the 90's? Or maybe more recently, the C-Class SportCoupe?

The A3 seems to be doing fine though...

carson2

I imagine it will cost about 10% cheaper than the S40 versions. But Volvo's intention isnt to target a price category, but an age category. People, whom otherwise wouldnt consider a Volvo -young, unmarried, students etc. I beleive it is a model that Volvo needed a long time ago, but better late than never. .
The BMW Compact of the 90's was a bad example, as it was a "[non-permissible content removed]" bimmer, using exterior parts and engines from the E36, but suspension and interior from the E30 Series... realy bad car.
I have driven both the Volvo S40 and the new Ford Focus which are the base for the C30. If the C30 has the handling of the Focus, Audi A3 is going to have a problem

jchan2

So this will be a $20,000 Volvo?

Not bad.

anythngbutgm

One-up the others and offer AWD with the T5 drivetrain and a stick and it'll sell like hotcakes...

donthegreek

In my opinion...there's no way this will sell for low $20's....I'd guess it'll be in the high 20's for a base version, and low to mid 30's loaded up like the A3.
Hope it is cheaper...but its a volvo....ain't gonna happen. :P

themoon77

According to my opinion of the styling, this is the ultimate hatch. However, it HAS to stay at or below $25,000 for me to consider it.

Edge

donthegreek

Volvo said this is going head to head with the A3...so it'll be priced the same if not more....

volvomax

Volvo is targeting a range between $25-28,000 for the base.

donthegreek

So add in Leather/Heated seats/top of the line Stereo...and what do we have...$31 to $32,000 is my guess...A3 territory like i said.I have no use for a base car.

don

kenw3

I agree. While it may target the A3, Mini and A class segment, Volvo's target buyers are looking at Scion Xc's, and Honda Civics. If they price it too high they will never get the sales that they want.

As far as options driving the price up - Volvo does a good job of loading up a "base" car. Hey, this isn't a Dodge where the base model gets you manual windows and locks. I'm looking for a good commuter car with some style and I think this will fit eh bill nicely - as long as the price is right!

plekto

I want a little Volvo like the 240 was. They really need a 4 cylinder with stickshift base model for UNDER 20K or they'll never sell more than a handful.

The main competitor to this car is sometihng liek a Sentra SE-R or simmilar. $18-20K. More than that and they just lost their market.

volvomax

We wouldn't sell ANY 4 cyl base stick cars.
The Volvo customer has evolved beyond the 240 owner.
With the A3 and the Mini, there is a market for premium small cars in the mid to upper $20's.
Its not a big one, but Volvo is only planning 8-10,000 cars for the US.

guy1974

I would be very surprised if the base T5 model costs more than $25K because Volvo is targeting Audi and will price the C30 lower not higher than the A3 2.0T. The prices have been released in the UK and the C30 is 5-10% less than the equivalent A3. This makes sense because Volvo's brand image is not quite as high as Audi's

volvomax

Well, the S40 T5 starts at $28390 here in the states.
So, $25k for the C30 is gonna be close.
Also, the A3 can grow into the $30's pretty easily.

kernick

I just read that Motor Trend has driven the car, and that it's base is $23K. Of course if you do Volvo Overseas delivery that's 8% off that!

guy1974

OSD is great but for the S40 and V50 you have to buy the select or premium package to be eligible for OSD - this cancels out any financial saving. Of course you get more equipment going through OSD for the same price as someone pays in the US. Of course spending time in Sweden would be a great plus.
I expect there will be no discounting from MSRP for the first few months due to its expected popularity.

guod

So how does the C30 T5 look vs the Mazdaspeed3? Sounds like the base prices is about the same. Power is a bit better on the MS3 218hp/236lb-ft T vs 263hp/280lb-ft T on the MS3 not sure but I would assume the MS3 is a little heavier than the C30. Is the 6-speed manual any better on the Volvo?

I want the Volvo because I like the looks better (not that I don't like the MS3 it looks great as well) but I am guessing I will be able to get a better price on the MS3.

I still wish I could get a euro Focus ST though. Ford (NA)how can your other divisions have these great products but unless you want a Mustang you get nothing exciting.

qbrozen

was it $23k? I thought they said $22k.

Well, either way, its a good start, especially since it comes standard with the turbo engine. So it starts at S40 2.4 prices but with the S40 T5 engine.

Maybe not a bad deal at all. Brings it near Accord V6 coupe pricing. If only they could have done that with the S40.

volvomax

short answer on the Focus ST.
It would cost darn near as much as the Volvo and Ford is convinced no one would pay that much for a Ford.

jaxs1

http://diplomat.volvocars.com/models/c30/

Looks nice, but is kind of risky to buy unless you live and work close to a Volvo dealership. It is unlikely to be problem-free and it will be a hassle getting warranty work done if you have to drop the car off at a dealership that isn't nearby.

Maybe it can be an alternative to a Mini Cooper which you can say the same thing about.

qbrozen

?? why do you say its risky business? And I certainly wouldn't say its "unlikely to be problem-free." I'm sure there are many S40 and V50 owners out there without problems.

jaxs1

I'm sure there are some S40, and Mini and Mercedes and Hummer and VW owners that are lucky enough to not have many problems, but the odds are not good.
If you buy such cars because you like the looks, you should be sure to a have a dealership that is convenient to your commute unless you don't work and don't have to worry about it.
Since many dealerships only do warranty repairs on weekdays, it will really be a hassle if you have to drive out of your way (maybe the opposite direction of your work) to drop off the car and get a rental or loaner, then go back to pick up the car in rush hour traffic at the end of the day.
It will be a huge pain even if that only happened a few times a year and they fixed every problem right the first time so you didn't have to take it back for them to rework the same issue.

qbrozen

I honestly think you are stretching it. To say the odds are not good implies that more than 50% of S40s have problems. I seriously doubt that.

volvomax

Seriously, you can say that every car is unlikely to be problem free.
Even the best cars have defects and warranty repairs.
Look at a Honda or Toyota dealers service dept, they are FULL of cars being fixed and it isn't all oil changes either.
Any modern car is going to need special care that Joes Garage can't do.

jaxs1

The problem with this new Volvo that I'm pointing out is that it is more likely to have many more problems than more reliable brands, plus every problem with it be much more of a hassle than the same problem on a Toyota, Honda or even a Ford due to the sparse Volvo dealer network.
If you happen to live and work very close to a Volvo dealership, then that will be less of a concern to you.

qbrozen

you do know that, although the C30 is a new vehicle, most of what is under the skin is not new, correct?

So it won't have the teething problems of an all-new vehicle.

qbrozen

If pricing stays at the $23k range, I predict volvo will be able to sell more than the 10k units volvomax says they projected.

At least I hope so.

i'm curious, vmax, is there another car in recent years (let's say within this decade) that volvo sold more of than they thought they would? The C70 is still pretty new, so I'm assuming demand is still there (is that correct?). So it may be a bit early to judge that one. It just seems to me that discounts seem to hit the volvos so quick these days. Even the R cars are deeply discounted, and those were never intended to be sold in any kind of volume, correct?

The only thing I can think of that may have sold better than expected might be the XC90?

volvomax

There are more than 350 Volvo dealers in the country. Unless you live in Wyoming, Montana or the like, I don't think you will have any problems finding a dealer.

volvomax

Well, the original 850 sold much better than Volvo thought it would. That car sold very well for a couple of years. More recently, the XC90 sold at sticker for almost 2 yrs.
C70 demand is very good, but that is a limited issue vehicle.
C30 pricing is a concern, that and the American tendency not to want to own hatchbacks, esp luxury ones.

qbrozen

But if $23k holds true, I think pricing won't be a problem. I mean, not that its much of a comparison, but honda dealers can't keep the civic si hatchback in stock and that's over $20k as well.

So for $1k-$2k more and you get a volvo with a turbo engine? I think that's GREAT! Its a matter of convincing other buyers of the same thing, however.

And I have my own take on the history of luxury hatchbacks. The ones that BMW and Mercedes offered, for instance, were lacking in other ways, so I believe the body style mattered less than the accountants seem to believe. The RSX and Integra held their own for quite some time. I'd be inclined to compare the C30 to those before I'd compare it to the others I mentioned. With the C30's turbo engine, I believe it may be the most powerful luxo-hatch ever offered.

volvomax

$23k is the base. Most of the cars will probably be between $26-28k.
I think the car will do well, but we will have to be careful w/ the options.

jaxs1

There are dealers, but they are still a fraction of dealers of major brands that have thousands of dealers nationwide. There are two Volvo dealers in my "area," but one is just under 20 miles miles away and the other is over 35 miles away, in the opposite direction of my commute.
There are Ford, Toyota, Honda, Chevrolet and even Lexus and BMW dealerships within 5-10 miles of my home and work and along the route I would be driving anyway.
Going to way out of my way to the nearest Volvo dealers before and after work in gridlock bumper to bumper traffic to drop off and pickup the car would be a much bigger headache than it would be with any popular brand car with a good dealer network.

qbrozen

$23k is the base.

Right. But I'm pretty sure a base model will compare favorably to my Civic Si example.

I'd probably still want the premium pack in the C30 myself, however, which then puts it in Accord EXL coupe territory, but that's fine. It will still be competitive while possibly offering a better and more solid driving experience.

And let's not forget one important thing ... its most likely going to be just a chip and exhaust away from hitting low 14s in the quarter mile.

volvomax

So what do the Lexus and bimmer people do that don't live within 5-10 miles of the dealership?
Do they not buy a bimmer or Lexus?
Of course not.
Obviously, you place a great deal of value in being within a stones throw of your dealership, which is fine.
But don't presume to decide that everyone else feels the same way.
What if you move further away? Will you sell your car and buy one whose dealership you live near?
I really don't think that it is the height of hardship to have to drive 20 or 30 miles a couple of times a year to have your car worked on.

anythngbutgm

Being that it shares underpinnings with the S40 and V50, can I hope for an AWD 6-speeder T5 availible in the above mentioned? If so, sign me up! :shades:

jaxs1

There are many more Toyota, Ford, Lexus and BMW dealerships, so even if I move, it is likely that there will still be more of those dealerships nearby than Volvo dealerships.
I might more likely take the chance on being 20 or 30 miles from an Acura dealership where the car is unlikely to have frequent problems than a Volvo.
However, I probably wouldn't even do it with an Acura since there is still some chance that I could get a lemon even with a model with a good reliability record.
Taking that chance with a car with a average to worse than average record like a Volvo would be reckless.
Frequently driving that far out of my way to get repairs regardless of being "free" and under warranty would be too disruptive to my life.

volvomax

Actually, only Toyota and Ford from your list have appreciably more dealers than Volvo does.
This is normal because they are not luxury dealers.
Even in major metropolitan areas, it is very possible to live 20 or 30 miles from the nearest BMW or Lexus or Acura dealer.
If driving that distance is too disruptive then you are better off doing business close to home, but you will find yourself in the minority.

10scoachrick

any thoughts, datewise, on actual availability in the US?

volvomax

August 2007, give or take

qbrozen

Hmmm... now C&D is reporting that the C30 will start at $25k.

volvomax, do you know which is the real number? $23k or $25k?

It makes quite a bit of difference, IMHO. Whereas I was looking at a T5 with premium pack for ~$25k, now we're talking ~$27k, which is midsize japanese territory. I think there was a good argument for the C30 at $23k (just a bit more than a Civic Si or GTI, but more power and refinement for that money). At $25k, it would be hard not to opt for something like an Accord EXV6 instead and get more power and space.

volvomax

Whatever the base ends up being, the realistic price for the cars looks to be in the $27-28k range.
First of all, nobody buys the base car, so base price really isn't important. Its the price with the features that you want that matters.
Second, the Accords price is irrelevant. The people who would buy this don't need the space or size of the Honda.
The better comparision is the Mini and the Golf GTI.
Heck, there are plenty of smaller cars that are in the "japanese midsize" price class. If you want sheer size, there are plenty of minvans in that price class too.
The C30 does need to be price competitive, but only in its own class.

qbrozen

The better comparision is the Mini and the Golf GTI.

But its quite a bit more than those, if it starts at $25k. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because I believe the C30 will prove to be a class above those. Oh, and since all of the mags compare the Si to the GTI, you can bet consumers do, too. The GTI attracts people who make that comparison because they are getting a bit more refinement for $2k more. The C30 would attract buyers making the comparison to the GTI who are willing to spend $1k more for another step up in refinement. At $3k more, its just that much tougher of a sale.

What I'm trying to say is, it is basically creating its own class (one vacated by the C230), but it will only succeed in that class if its just a bit above the GTI/Mini S/Si. The GTI currently starts the highest at $22k. At a significant amount above those, I think buyers would either choose the cheaper competitor or step up to a more expensive "non-competitor." You can say its not a competitor to japanese coupes all you want, but I know that when friends, family, or even I shop for a vehicle, we will compare cars of similar price and function, and those don't always fall in the same "class." I compared and debated an Accord Coupe and 350z. So if that doesn't say it all, I don't know what does.

Base price is important for the sake of comparisons. If you want to compare optioned up models, that's fine, but it will still be the same relative price when compared to optioned up models of the competitors.

volvomax

An Accord coupe and a 350Z??
Now that sound like someone who really doesn't know what they want.
That comparision isn't a valid comparision because there is no common ground.
There is no way to judge which car is better because those 2 cars do very different things and have very different specs.
You HAVE to have some common frame of reference.
As to the GTI price point, look at the prices w/ the options you want. The Volvo may have the higher base, but it could also have more standard features. Motor co's want you to fall for the base price game. It gets you in the door.
Also, look at the other specs. The Volvo will be quicker than the GTI, C30 0-60 in 6.2, GTI in 7.2.
The C30 is bigger than the Mini(and faster)and will be priced competitively.

qbrozen

actually, depending on your criteria, common ground can usually be found.

For me, it was a 6-speed 2-door that could hit 60 in less than 6 secs. I also compared the TT, Boxster, and S2k. I narrowed it down to the Accord and 350z (because those were the only i could fit comfortably in).

I can't remember the 0-60 number I've seen, but I think it may have been a tick slower than 6.2. In any case, I think it, the Mini S, and the Civic Si will all be within a few clicks of each other.

We'll have to see what the standard features are, but I'd imagine its close to the S40 T5.

volvomax

The TT, Boxster, S2000 and 350 are all similar cars. They are sports cars so a discussion of their good and bad points is possible.
The Accord coupe is a family sedan minus 2 doors.
It doesn't go, stop or turn like the above cars.
It would be like having Queen Latifah compete in the Miss Universe pageant. Yes she is a woman and so there is common ground, but c'mon!

qbrozen

It doesn't go, stop or turn like the above cars.

i know you have a bias against honda, vmax, and that's fine. But I still feel the need to correct you.

The Accord Coupe V6 hits 60 in 5.9 secs, the same as a Boxster. And it has skidpad grip on par with a TT.

Will it go around a track as good as the others? Of course not. But I use a backseat far more often than I go to a track. These are the kinds of questions buyers face, not whether or not the volvo comes standard with headlight washers.

(by the way, at that time, I picked the 350z.)

volvomax

I have no bias against Honda. They make a fine appliance.
But they aren't sports cars.
Where on earth did you see/hear of an Accord hitting 60 mph in 5.9 sec??

qbrozen

see? you are just out of touch with the advances they've made. I used the think the same as you.

http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/7011/honda-accord-coupe-ex-v-6.html
(note that this is before its slight bump in power)

here it is in sedan form with the power bump:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/10519/2006-honda-accord-ex-v-6.html

Unfortunately, I find the other sites too difficult to search on. I can at least tell you that MotorTrend got the identical times in their automatic V6 that C&D did, so I'd assume they would get the same in the manual.

But, anyway, we're kind of off topic (although i'm not sure anymore). My point still boils down to ... c30=$23k-$28k=yes. c30=$25k-$30k=no.

trackwrex

i'm wondering if the possibility of the T5 AWD version of the C30 will come into being... *sigh*... we'll have to wait and see... now, the 1-series will be coming to market... interesting times are ahead of us...

volvomax

the sole reason not to have the AWD is cost.
Volvo is desperately trying to keep costs down on the C30.