Chevy Camaro Concept

hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
edited March 2014 in Chevrolet
From the photos in the Detroit Free Press (www.freep.com), the Camaro Concept looks very good. Wish it were in Chevy showrooms now instead of being a possible '09 model, but, hopefully, the production car will be a winner for enthusiasts and for Chevy.
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Comments

  • jb7227jb7227 Member Posts: 86
    Saw it today on TV coverage of Det Auto Show - now THATS what GM should be making. I would love to see it built in the U.S. using mostly U.S. components (the only thing that keeps me from buying a Mustang is that it's built alongside Mazdas - and has less than 65% domestic/Canadian content). And most importantly - price it right. A base Mustang can be had for around 20-21K. Even a fully loaded Mustang GT V-8 is around 33K. I hope GM doesnt make the mistake of pricing the Camaro like Ford did with the Thunderbird. I other words, dont have the average Camaro priced at 40K! Last year the Mustang sold over 162,000 units - no reason why GM cant sell 100,000 Camaros.
    Just some thoughts.
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    I just saw the photo of this on msnbc.com It looks great from what I saw, hope they build it. I agree with jb7227 that it HAS to be priced right. Besides the Thunderbird example, I would have to say that the GTO is another example. I don't see many where I live at all. Bland styling, and over $30k turns off too many people. Once you get in BMW and Lexus territory, GM will have a problem, which is mostly perception, but that still counts. Why buy a GM when you can get a BMW 3 series coupe? Make it a better performer for under $30k, and you will have a winner.

    Yes, it will have to be rear wheel drive, and offer a V-8 to come to the party, but it will also have to offer something the last few Camaro's didn't have - quality. It will need to be built with a great interior (previous generations just horrible), and attention to detail. Much like Ford stepped up the quality of the F-150 (for a truck no less), GM will have to do the same for the Camaro.

    I've been checking out the upcoming small car segment (like the Honda Fit, Nissan Versa, etc.) and all of these small cars will have to offer higher quality as well to sell. And these are $13k machines. So the Camaro, and Challenger, etc. will also have to be of high quality and great design. Something not synonymous with past Camaros.

    I don't think it has to offer every gadget and doodah, but it can't be a complete replica of old muscle cars: fairly fast in a straight line, but not good at much else (and I am a muscle car fan, but I don't confuse what they can do with a Porsche for example). The new Camaro will have to be quick, but not Z-06 fast. That's what the aftermarket is for. It has to be comfortable, ergonomically designed, and offer most features we take for granted. Some practicality like a useable trunk would also be a good idea. Build a good out of the box modern day muscle car that can be tweaked to be a terror like the old muscle cars were, and you will sell plenty.

    But what did in the last Camaro, was that they were not reliable, not that great in the safety column, expensive to insure, and not that useful as everyday driving machines.

    I would like to see a quality V-6 option too, that could get better gas mileage, but still have a lot of punch. Add in good looks, a state of the art interior, useful space and good ergonomics, and price tag of $20-$28k loaded, and GM will be back in the winner circle. I just hope I can afford one when they come out!
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Agree with a lot of the sentiments expressed here. I think key for GM will be to keep the price down and the perceived quality/reliability up. It doesn't have to offer road blistering performance from the get-go; but it should be sturdy enough to take big hp bumps without a hitch.

    Personally, I don't think they need to offer the all aluminum LS2 as their base V8 edition. I think their 5.3l V8 hooked up to a 5sp stick should be plenty for a Z28 edition with the LS2 for a future SS model. Base price for the V8 needs to be in the neighborhood of $25-$26k.

    I really like the looks of the car (but those giant rims will never make production). About the only thing I would change would be the nose (lookes too pointed to me).
  • splatsterhoundsplatsterhound Member Posts: 149
    This is one cool looking car. Best looking new car I've seen/concept car....
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    Yes, you summed it better than I did. Put a good (but not the best yet) V-8 in there with a 5 or 6 speed (and not one that skips shifts either) or a 6 speed auto for no more than $26k, would sell. And they should do something similar to the Monte Carlo too. I just don't understand a Monte Carlo with the 5.3 V-8, and front wheel drive.

    Also with the new Camaro, I doubt the huge rims will make it to production. And I wouldn't want them anyway. Imagine the cost of rubber for 22" rims? 17" with an 18" option would be fine with me. Again, the aftermarket will take of this too. And I would also change the nose. The '69 Camaro is one of the best looking designs ever. Still one of my favorite cars of all time. Make it look a lot like it, just like the new Challenger looks like the old one, another great design, imo.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I have to break the streak of accolades. The exterior looks of the Camaro concept does nothing for me. To my eye, the exterior doesn't flow at all and it looks like it was designed by at least three committees - one took on the front end another did the middle, and a third worked on the back end.

    But I can see how those predisposed to GM designs might like it. It looks like the same family as the Cadillac designs, which also don't do anything for me.

    It does make me wonder a bit about what makes something attractive to some, but not others. Back in my single days, I went for the lean athletic look, whereas a good friend went for the "bigger is better" busty look. Made for a good friendship. At least we knew we'd never have to fight over the same woman!

    In any event, to each their own. There is no "right" answer when it comes to personal preferences.
  • acefieldacefield Member Posts: 7
    The new Camaro? Close, but overall a disappointment. In typical GM fashion it is over-done and overly dramatic. Tone down the eccentric lines a bit and they will have a strong product. The interior is also over-dramatic. As is, I think it is a sales flop. Once again, it demonstrates that GM's biggest problem is their cheesy designers. If they need to cut employees, they should start with their design and marketing departments. Keep it simple GM! It really isn't that hard!
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Concepts are always over dramatic.

    Of course the exterior and interior will be toned if the car is approved for production.

    Simple concepts are simply ignored at autoshows.

    The Camaro is getting swamped with attention.

    Think about it.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Take a look at how close the Mustang GT ended up looking like the concept car that was making the rounds in early '04. In some ways, the production car actually looked better.

    Would the production Camaro be toned down from the concept? Sure; it'll lose the GIANT rims and the nose will be a bit more crash-worthy. Probably lose the grilles in the leading edge of the rear fender. But I think the overall lines are very very close to what we can expect on a production model.

    And if they lose the weird lighting/colors in the interior (and odd console treatment forward of the shifter), I think that interior is fairly close to production as well.

    Be interesting to see if the IRS makes it into the production version...
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    are that the concept looks really rushed. I'm not trying to put a damper on anyone's good thoughts and accolades for the concept, but IMO the car just doesn't have "it". It looks like it needs to go into the oven for a few more months. Maybe the pics on MSN look better and looks great in person (my impressions come from the photos/articles on yahoo). I will reserve my final judgement in seeing it in person, but...

    To me, it looks bloated, out of proportion all around. The beltline needs to be lowered and the greenhouse raised slightly. The back-end looks as big as a Corvette's. The overly big-tire look is dead, and has been for a long time (just grateful they didn't have spinners on it). That door looks loooooooooong (from a shot of Lutz standing with the door open) and heavy. Again, I think they need to rethink some things and TAKE THEIR TIME!!! This car definitely does not need to be rushed. I would rather GM/Chevy take extra time and get it right than to repeat the Monaro/GTO mistake.

    Lutz stated they need to sell 150 - 160K/yr to make it profitable; can this version make and sustain those numbers? As for now, I'm still leaning toward the Challenger. :surprise:
  • vibsrvibsr Member Posts: 47
    On a scale of 1 to 10 (highest), I'll give the Camaro concept 8.75. Overall, I like the direction that this thing is headed. I'm sure that if the Bowtie Boys actually do this, the body sculpture will be toned down a little (just a little!). ;) If they decide on more than one version of this car, let the wheels max out at 18 inches for the all-out bruiser. In my opinion, anything over 18" for this car is unnecessary. Just keep it simple. I know they did it that way in the '60s, but for safety's sake they need to put those gauges on the dash -- not in the console!

    Back in the muscle/pony era, Ford was first on the scene with the Mustang, and Dodge was last with the Challenger. Well, Ford is back out there again with a real attitude. Let's see who hits the showroom floor next. Chevy or Dodge?
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    There's a tendency for cars to grow in size and weight with each generation. I would have preferred the new Mustang if it had been the size and weight of the original, or, at most, the '57-'58. From what I understand, the Challenger will be larger than the original, and considerably heavier. These increases tend to detract from handling and maneuverability, while increasing fuel consumption and requiring more power to achieve a given level of performance.

    I hope the next Camaro will be no longer, wider, and heavier than the original one ('67?), and, if anything, slightly trimmer. If it has to be slightly taller to offer a usable back seat, well, that wouldn't bother me. Also, I hope the production model features independent rear suspension, even if the added manufacturing expense is factored into the price.
  • stockblock396stockblock396 Member Posts: 1
    Great looking Concept Camaro....NOT!. What were they thinking? I restore 1st Gen Camaros and love these cars. This new look, at least to me, better resembles my daughters' 2000 Mustang. We really like the similarities that Dodge did with thier Challanger. Even the Ford Mustang retro car was not a bad re-do. This car, to me, doesn't look anything like a 69 Camaro as stated in their ad. I am sadly dissappointed. I hope GM gets enough of this kind of feedback so they will re-think the design. Such as a nose that better resembles the 1st Gen. A less pointy, darker, closer webbed grill gave the 69 a "Mean" look. Plus, a set of rectangular, tailights with a slight curve on the corner would also help. I'm sorry, but even the sides of this "concept" is too...mustangy for me. The sides of all the 1st Gen Camaros were sleek, smooth, with the accents placed on the top of the fender and a touch on the sides. The 69 had a bit of a squashed look compared to the 67-68. It definitely did NOT have a, excuse the reference, Big butt. Unlike this.."Corvette" concept. Now if you want to add something to the rear...create a spoiler. This was the single most added after market option on all 1st Gens. Again I applaud Dodge for their Challanger, (though I will never want a Dodge anything). And I recongnize the Mustang retro by thier nose and tailights. (Still looks like a 2000 though on the sides.) But really, GM.."WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!!!" :confuse:
  • charts2charts2 Member Posts: 618
    Best concept yet by GM. Lutz says it will be at least 6 months before they decide to build/or not and then where to build it and then 30 months of lead up time. Spring/Summer of 2009 is too far down the road to keep people interested in this rapidly changing car market today. For sure if the concept becomes reality it will definetly be toned down from what we see. Smaller wheels/tires, and less chisled appearance will make the new Camaro look generic and the excitement will soon wear off. I doubt for a minute that they could sell 150,000 of these year after year to turn a profit. I would believe that Mopar would also have to sell 150,000 Challengers also. There is not that much room in the two door muscle car market. Chevy pumps hundreds of millions into racing/advertising for the Corvette and it is struggling to sell 35,000 a year. It will be interesting!
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    There's a tendency for cars to grow in size and weight with each generation. I would have preferred the new Mustang if it had been the size and weight of the original, or, at most, the '57-'58.

    I hope the '57 - '58 was meant to be '67-'68. Remember the Mustang if a mix of 65 - 70, so in size, it was definitely going to be the bigger, later car. Just be glad they didn't make it the behemoth 71 - 73 model.

    But again, between the Dodge and the Chevy, I have to give it to the Dodge. Seems those people understand the heritage of the what the cars were and what they mean to people, still to this days, sans Charger of course. I see too much XLR in the front end of the Camaro concept, too much Corvette in the rear and the taillights look like they came off a '70 Cuda. It almost looks like the Arnold Schwarzenegger Mustang concept that became the SN95.
  • texasmerqtexasmerq Member Posts: 86
    I like the Camaro Concept overall although I think it could stand few minor touchups in the design. I really they hope they decide to build it and realize that 2009 doesn't work for a debut. They need to have this car ou this fall honestly.

    They should use the 5.3L V8 from the New Impala as the base engine and price it right in between the V6 and V8 Mustang. The concept car should become the Z28 and be priced about $28,000 when fully loaded. Later they should offer a more tuned LS2 with around 450hp with weight reduction for the SS version and they can price that version at around $34,000. They should put 18" wheels and tires on the base model and 19" on Z28 and SS or maybe a 18"/19" staggered setup instead. As for transmissions the Tremec T56 works well for a manual and I would like to see a 6 speed DSG or SMG for the "automatic" duties. If not then the 6 speed automatic transmission in the C6 Corvette should work as well.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "The concept car should become the Z28 and be priced about $28,000 when fully loaded."

    Fully loaded with an aluminum 400hp LS2, 6-sp manual and IRS.....for $28k?

    You're not asking for much, are you?

    You've GOT to keep the price down. Base Camaro with 3.9l V6 and 5sp manual. Z28 Camaro with 5.3l V8 and 5sp manual. SS Camaro with the LS2 and 6sp.

    IMO the SS should be manual only. 4-sp auto in the base car, perhaps the 6-sp auto in the Z28 (I wonder what the cost difference is between the 4-sp and 6-sp units :surprise: ). 16" rims on the V6 base, 17" rims (w/ 18" optional) on the Z28. 18" standard on the SS; leave the staggered sizing to the Corvette. Let's try to be realistic here.

    You guys can make your wish list a mile long for the new Camaro but you can't then expect it to compete financially with the Mustang. Don't you guys remember that lack of performance didn't kill the old F-bodies - it was the cost. Make the car LOOK killer, and perform WELL (not trying to set any land speed records here, ok?) and keep the PRICE competitive and the Camaro will succeed.
  • o4impalasso4impalass Member Posts: 2
    Do not like it, it looks like the retarded cousin of the legendary '69. Let legends be just that.Much too space ship looking.
  • texasmerqtexasmerq Member Posts: 86
    I don't think that's asking for too much when you consider what the GTO offers now and what they sell for. A new one can be had for $26,000 because they sell poorly and incentives. 28K shouldn't be out of the question IMO. As for tire and wheel size they cost car companies next to nothing in comparison to retail prices. It's not a huge difference between price for a 17" and a 18". 16" should be out of the question for a sports car or even a sporty car.

    As far as cost we are also talking about another 2 or 3 years from now also and cutting corners where the competition is concerned is what got GM in their predicament. They need to get progressive and start setting the standard once again instead of following it. Offer what no one else is and at a better price and they will come. That's how Lexus grew and most Japanese companies for that matter. There was a time when it was considered a joke to own a Toyota, Honda, Nissan, even a Hyundai and they have all or are coming to the forefront now as a serious competitor.

    Either way Corvette people aren't gonna cross shop a Camaro for a Corvette and with the added weight then the Camaro won't touch the Corvette in performance. So it's safe for GM not to cheat us out of a REAL Camaro.
  • wearsomeshoeswearsomeshoes Member Posts: 5
    I used to be a great Chevy fan, having owned a Chevelle and a Z28. The stuff coming out of Chevy in recent years really turned me away. I was appalled when the Camaro was discontinued in favor of monstrosities like the Avalanche and SSR. The new Camaro could help Chevy get back on track. The Detroit Auto Show Camaro concept would be more appealing if they make the body cleaner by reducing the muscularity, raising the canopy slightly, and flattening the nose. An open egg-crate front end needs to be designed that does not have anything like the Mustang's concrete "parking block" bumper. Something sleek like the Enduro bumper on the '69 might work. The cowl induction hood on the concept car should be carefully scrutinized. It looked great on '68-'69s, but now you see aftermarket copies on all sorts of vehicles including Ford pickups. The rear end must not be too fat. Packing huge tires into a bulging rear may work for Corvette or Porsche, but this is a Camaro. I'm not suggesting re-creating the 1st generation, but the concept car looks somewhat cartoonish. If Chevy produces this car, the build quality must obviously surpass that of all prior generations so Motor Trend et al do not ridicule it on the first road test. I see these factors as being more important than promises of Corvette-grade horsepower. There used to be a certain sense of dignity and class to the design and marketing of Camaros. It was a car that appealed to both dads and sons, not just boy-racers.
  • boodahboodah Member Posts: 7
    All I have to say is this car is veeeeeery nice. Tweak a few things here and there, price it right (I saw on tv the VPs saying somewhere around 25-29k for it). I don't car for the front grill but everything else is quite nice.
  • camaronutcamaronut Member Posts: 1
    I have to say that the new concept camaro looks like just another new car. Yes, some of you think that Chevy should build something new but I think they should have gone with a true retro look. That is what the guys my age are saying (age 42). We loved the old muscle cars and wanted to see some new technology put into a retro Camaro. The Challenger is by far the coolest thing released this year along with the Shelby Cobra. Too bad GM didn't get on board. The nose of this new Camaro looks like some sort of rice burner. If all the young kids like this car, they need to buy it and support it. I for one will be going after a Challenger. It will be strange to have a Mopar in my driveway sitting next to my 74 Z-28, my sons 81 Z-28 and my daughters 87 Camaro and my wife's 03 Impala LS. Get the picture, I am a devoted GM guy but this new Camaro sucks.
  • kkollwitzkkollwitz Member Posts: 274
    I drive a 2002 Z28, used to have a Firebird Formula, before that a Mustang LX 5.0, all manuals. I'm probably part of the new Camaro's target market.
    I'm not that concerned about particular looks. For me, the new Camaro should:
    Dump lowbrow image: no goofy graphics or boyracer addons. Camaro must have same middleclass/ uppermiddleclass appeal as Mustang, i.e., affluent women who will buy a Mustang V6 convertible would also consider a similar Camaro.
    Have rwd, manual, big V8.
    Be comparable in cost to equivalent Mustang performance.
    Should handle better than equivalent Mustang. Doesn't have to be faster in 0-60, 1/4 mile, but close.
    Better weight distribution than Mustang.
    Should be more sporting than Mustang even if it makes the car a bit less comfortable.
    If GTO is still around, it's ok for Camaro be be slower, but it must outhandle GTO.
    I'm not sure what Challenger will be, so I have no sense about how Camaro should compare.
    Not sure about any other/future rwd V8 coupes...are there any?
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Member Posts: 197
    Saw this on the Chevy site. Thought you'd all like it:

    http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/

    Click on "SEE IT UNVEILED". The intro part is a little annoying, but seeing all the older Camaros, plus the concept car at the end, is well worth it.

    Having read all previous posts, I think they should keep the LS2 for the standard Camaro, but offer the LS7 for the SS. Unless Corvette execs want the LS7 for the Z06 only.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Having read all previous posts, I think they should keep the LS2 for the standard Camaro..."

    Why?

    Are you saying the Camaro can't compete with the Mustang unless it has a large horsepower advantage? That didn't work with the previous generation F-bods.....
  • midagecrisismidagecrisis Member Posts: 1
    The more I see pictures of it the more I like it. I wish someone in Detroit would get there head straight and start being the leader in innovative design. I am so tired of them being 3+ years behind everyone else. I have always been a GM person since I started driving, from my parents and grand parents Oldsmobiles to my Olds., Buick, and Pontiacs. Now being in my very early 40's I want my sports car. Bought a 03 sunfire new and figured I would drive it till my daugther was old enough to drive and it would be hers. Well the time is here. November she turns of age and I will have about 80k miles on that sunfire. I figured I would hold off buying till then. Well if GM snoozes on putting this out there, then I guess my rear end will be in a new Mustang GT. Pretty sad being a loyal GM consumer and they have nothing to compete with the competion because they drag there feet and most of us aren't getting any younger. We will see what the 07's bring when I need a new car. I agree the pricing had better be comparable with the Mustang also when it hits the road. Just think Oldsmobile wouldn't be where it is if they had brought back a sporty 442 or cutlass for that matter. With that all said, I like the new camaro, and I would want the LS2 model anyway.
  • kkollwitzkkollwitz Member Posts: 274
    Have you considered a GTO? If I didn't have my Camaro, I'd probably be in a GTO myself.
  • mleonardomleonardo Member Posts: 45
    I have always been a huge camaro fan. I have owned five of them including a 69 RSZ28 which was my favorite. I think Dodge did a much better job with the callenger than chevy did with the camaro. The wheels are too big, the rear end is huge, and the front end looks nothing like the 69. I do like the sawtooth gauges in the center console like the 69. Another problem is the color they chose for the concept. That space ship silver doesn't look right. Dodge used an old school orange and black stripes. If GM tones this design down a bit and makes it look more like the 69, and puts some serious ponies under the hood, I'll be the first one in line for one. If they leave it the way it is, I just might have to get the Dodge. Being a Chevy fan all my life, I never thought I would hear myself say that.
  • johnmanjohnman Member Posts: 1
    I agree, GM needs to tone down the styling a bit, but this is a great start. It's nice to see rear quarter windows on a Camaro for the first time in 36 years! The Challenger clearly looks better though, to me, even if it is less imaginative.
  • brysok6brysok6 Member Posts: 11
    Can't argue with your assessment Johnman, but remember that this car is still way out in the "concept" phase, and by the time it hit's the street, I bet this Camaro will be one awsum ride. The Challenger is too retro for me, so I hope DCX tweaks it a bit here and there too, but I love the idea ! Either way, to see these two cars hit the street is a car lover's dream come true. Make mine the Chevy Camaro, in red, and I'll c'ya (and leave ya !) on Woodward !!
  • katies1katies1 Member Posts: 1
    I will agree with you , they need to come out with it sooner and not be the last one on the block to bring something out. Everyone is talking about price mostly younger people. They probley could not afford the insurance on it anyways,They need to stick to there RICE BURNERS I hope GM does not CHANGE the looks of it, I will be the first one in line to buy one.I have 1997 anniversary Z28 convertible and I love it butwould sell it for the new Camaro!!!!!!!!
  • m382m382 Member Posts: 35
    I would really watch out who exactly you call out in terms of not being able to afford something. I happen to be 23 years old and own more than one car, two of which being a 04 BMW M3 which last I checked cost just a little more to insure than any Camaro, and the other being an 04 WRX STi. That "ricer", I'm sorry you won't be sticking it to. There are a lot of "ricers" out there that love taking out overzealous people who don't give these cars credit. I'm not one of them, but I also know that there's been no Camaro to date, that could dust an STi. Leave aside aftermarket tuners because just as soon as one side comes out with something the other counters. But straight out of the box there are few cars that are straight up faster than it in acceleration, quarter mile, in and out of turns etc. I got the car because it's own of my all time favorites and you'd be hard pressed to find a better "bang for the buck" performance-wise out there. I'd just be a little more disrete when you single out who can't do what.
  • m382m382 Member Posts: 35
    I forgot to mention a couple other "ricers" that people my age drive that aren't cheap...350Z, STi, Evo, RX8, RX7....etc. You don't need a "big american V8" for a car to be costly insurance-wise.
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Member Posts: 197
    Don't feel bad about liking the concept Challenger more than the Camaro. I talked with six Chevy reps at the Chicago Auto Show yesterday, and one of them said the Camaro needs some more design tweaking. That same guy thought the GT500 was the best designed street car in the whole show. I asked him if he thought an SS Camaro might get the LS7, and he said a supercharged LS2 motor is more likely. Unfortunately, the LS7 will only be available for the Z06. He's also heard rumors that a supercharged LS7 might be available next year for an SS version of the Z06.
  • m382m382 Member Posts: 35
    I don't think there was any suprise to find out that the LS7 motor is going nowhere but in a Z06...that being their flagship car, and now flaghsip engine. However, I really doubt there's going to be an "SS" Version of a Z06...or Corvette at all for that matter. The Corvette doesn't need an SS version. The Z06 is already a street legal version of Corvette's LeMans Compettition car,...I don't know why they'd put more into that. They'r bargaining piece is that the car competes with world class cars, for a fraction and sometimes half the cost. The fact that it's so close to the C6R already, and that they'r keeping cost down....I doubt they'r going to come out with a performance version(SC Z06)....of the performance version (Z06) of a performance car (Corvette). Besides...if just adding a SC is what their going to do...there'd be no reason to come out with that when it would probably cost you less to have it installed on your own and not go through Chevy. You can't always listen to "reps",...a Ford rep told me once before the current Mustang came out that it would be a replica of the first Mach 1.....right on the ball he was.
  • camarosscamaross Member Posts: 7
    I'm trilled their bringing the Camaro back to life - They should have never dropped it. What they need to do is have a more modern interpretion, with just enough Camaro characteristics to make you know it's a Camaro - Like the 3rd generation vs. the second generation. It shouldn't take the Mustang's or Challenger's approach - No imagination and no appeal to younger buyers, which the Camaro needs to save alive :D
  • i_mtheicemani_mtheiceman Member Posts: 1
    I agree. Chevy missed a grand opportunity when Pontiac snagged the Australian Chevy as a Gaudy Tired Operator. That car should have been the Chevelle SS, and the Camaro needs to look like a muscle car. The reason Mustangs are selling is not the performance, man even the 2002 Camaro will blow them away. They're selling because they look like a muscle car. Same with the Dodge. Chevy in the past few years has really crapped things up. I'm reminded of the Vega debacle. First they turn the Nova into a roller skate, then they embarass we who are Monte Carlo fans with this moronic six cylinder driven hunk of Nascar trash, reduce the Impala to a Corolla of sorts, and make a very cool looking Panel imitation with nothing but a four cylinder underpowered Cobalt engine. If they mess with the Vette, I'm gone as a Chevy owner. (I've been one since 1968, by the way). The hottest thing they make nowdays (if you exclude the Vette and the SSR) is their pickup, and the new front end on the pickups (especially the dog ugly colorado) makes me cringe. It hurts me deeply to watch the bowtie turned into a necktie, 'cause the next step is a noose, and I think they are shooting themselves in the foot with the product they're producing. It may be just an opinion, but it's all mine.
  • twanabtwanab Member Posts: 1
    I only have a few things to say: my father bought an '05 black mustang, put some stripes on it and a set of 20" rims, making it an outstanding muscle car. Probably the best in this city, sure its a v6 but who cares, it looks good. Since then I know I want to do the same, yet I can't get the same make he has and think that I can make a better looking car and I'm not all that into foriegn cars. Then the concept camaro appeared and allowed me to dream. It might not have muscle the mustang has, but I'm pretty sure I have came up w/a design that would put mine beside his. As long as they keep the same ... design? whatever it is, I'm sure I can put 10k into and be proud to drive it. And my opinion is that big wheels are still in, just have to choose the rights one and not the over-rated spokes.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,556
    The 20" wheels may make a Stang a show car, as in bling-bling, but that has nothing to do with muscle car. The V6 is just fine with 16" or even 17". The suspension on a car is designed for use with particular diameter and weight wheels. The GT doesn't work better with 20", though I am sure the tire people like the extra money. Come to think of it, muscle cars would be 15" wheels.

    Yes, the New Camaro looks pretty cool. A bit wide, and I would imagine a bit heavy. I would make a smaller car, which would be lighter, and use the 3.6 V6 out of the CTS for the engine. By the time the New Camaro is released, gas could be $3.50 a gallon or more - who knows? A lighter engine is easier for getting to 50/50 weight distribution. Then they could add the optional V8 for those in need for more HP, at any cost. Something around 325HP or so would do.

    -Loren
  • 69camarolover69camarolover Member Posts: 2
    can someone give me some closer. im seein two styles of the new camaro. which one is comin out. the silver concept dosent appeal to me but the orange one im seein is beautiful.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,556
    I do believe the orange or orange/red one you are referring to was a drawing done by a student of design, and not the concept car. Yes, it looks excellent. The silver one is the GM concept car. It is typical, let's be sure it is aggressive and bulked up, new approach to cars to sell to the SUV / macho image crowd. A drift away from the Pony sporty car, with options to make it a muscle car. These are suppose to be buff, or bad, or whatever. Just looks too big overall to me. Too wide, and less graceful. That said, it is pretty good. A good start. Make this one, or the " orange car " in something smaller and lighter, put a good 250HP engine in it and be sure the MPG hits 30 MPG and it may sell well indeed. Gas in CA. is headed towards $3.50 a gallon in short time. -Loren

    P.S. GM should price this under $21K, with a V8 for $25K
  • 69camarolover69camarolover Member Posts: 2
    then i must kiss chevy good bye. im gonna be goin with the new dodge challenger then. its lookin a whole lot like the original and its a beautiful car. its sad though cause i've only owned chevy's but there disapointing me on this one. it looks nothing like the 69 and its just plane ugly. so if they come out with the silver concept then dodge will be my new car. thanks for the reply.
  • irocmanirocman Member Posts: 1
    this message is for those who call themselves camaro lovers. i,m die hard camaro/chevy. the new camaro concept is badass. i was quite pissed off when GM announced the death of the camaro/firebird. i was ready to go to GM's headquarters with my '85 IROC and swing donuts on the front lawn of the building. i can't stand mustangs, or any other ford claiming supremacy over the camaro. i don't think so. yeah, it's been a couple of years since camaro talk has really sufaced. but i'm glad they finally brought a thought to the table. no matter what the camaro looks like, as always it will out-perform all mustangs and challengers to come!!!! for those who comment on the color of the concept, GET REAL!!! CONCEPT!!! do you understand the word? if a true fan you'll have no doubt, as i, that the next camaro will make you wet your pants. trust me my money is already in the bank awaiting it's arrival. for those with ponys,5.slows,dodge whatevers,oh yeah and you import guys get used to seeing taillights.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,556
    Whoa, too much coffee. Take five! He was talking about two different car concepts, and not the color. The orange car was a concept only on paper. The silver the concept by GM. As for supremacy of Camaro vs. Mustang, the answer is it depends on which car suits one best. True, the Camaro SS was or is ahead of the Mustang in HP. But some found the car to be harder to see out of, or harder to drive in town. The Camaro and Mustang ended up being different in nature, and both fit those particular needs. I like the look of the last Camaro and the first Camaro the best. The show car, if they lower the door window sills a bit and narrow and lighten it, looks fine by me.

    Mustang was the first Pony car, and has outsold Camaro.
    So in that respect it has dominated the scene.

    Beware the first two years of a launch of a new domestic car, as they often have bugs still in the cars.

    The '85 IROC you say! Hey, I was amazed to see the State Troopers in Nevada driving those Camaros years ago. And now CA has a few Camaros too. And they get to drive fast with no tickets. :)

    -Loren
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    "...The Challenger concept packs a 425-hp, 6.1-liter Hemi V-8. It's also 4.7 inches wider and 10.2 inches longer than the 2006 Mustang..."

    While I like the Challenger's styling, its size and weight are unappealing to me. I understand that the Challenger's dimensions were dictated by the business case to use the large Chrysler RWD platform, rather than by a "hey, the Mustang is nice, but it's too small; we've got to make the Challenger bigger and heavier" mentality, but still... I say, that's unfortunate, while understanding that the Challenger's sales volume wouldn't be sufficient to justify a separate platform.

    From what I've read about the Camaro concept, it will be closer to the Challenger's size than the Mustang's, which, incidentally, is already significantly larger and heavier than the original Mustang, or even the slightly larger '67-'68 Mustang (my personal favorite).

    I realize that most enthusiasts aren't as concerned as I am about the size and weight of the new pony cars, but in this day of high fuel costs, wouldn't it make more sense for the equivalent power to weight values to be achieved by keeping the size of the new generation of pony cars similar to the original versions?

    Incidentally, my favorite Camaros, from a styling standpoint, is the '82-'92 generation. The '67s-'70s are also nice, of course.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,556
    Exactly! You are so right. They need to make the car slightly smaller than the first generation Camaro, use some aluminum to keep the weight in less than 3,200#, and use an efficient V6 which can give her around 22/30MPG. Also, keep it simple. Have the side air bags standard, and an inexpensive anti-lock brake and traction control for those wanting to add those items. A basic radio and basic air and such, with an option pkg. for those needing a fancier car. Price it around $21K.
    And please - please NO more high rise doors, with shrinking windows. If it is required to make the side impact test results higher, so be it, but please at a certain point enough is enough. The 350Z styling is just out of control.
    -Loren
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Incidentally, my quote in message #47 regarding the size comparison between Challenger and Mustang is from the Automotive News website.

    I agree with you that high rise doors detract from styling, m1miata.
  • dabachelordabachelor Member Posts: 2
    THE CAMARO IS BETTER THAN THE MUSTANG IN JUST ABOUT ALL PLACES RIGHT? BUT WHO HAS MORE HORSES
    THE MUSTANGS SHAPE IS DESENT BUT IT DOESNT BREAK THE WIND ENOUGH?ON A DRAG STRIP WHO WOULD WIN CAMARO OR SHELBY GT 500 U TELL ME.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    First off, welcome to Edmunds.

    Now, turn OFF your Caps Lock. There's no need to shout.

    Second, who knows who is 'better'. The last time I saw any sort of comparison test was several years ago.

    OH, you mean comparing the CONCEPT Camaro to the PRODUCTION Mustang, right?

    "BUT WHO HAS MORE HORSES"

    We will know the answer to that question when the PRODUCTION Camaro hits the market and we can then compare that to what the production Mustang has. Most folks have acknowledged that the 400hp LS2 probably won't be the base V8 (Z28) option but would probably appear in a Camaro SS version. The Z28 would probably get the 5.3l making somewhere around 310 - 320hp.

    "THE MUSTANGS SHAPE IS DESENT BUT IT DOESNT BREAK THE WIND ENOUGH?"

    In all honesty, I don't think either of these cars are some sort of aerodynamic champion. In this segment, styling goes a lot further than aero.

    "ON A DRAG STRIP WHO WOULD WIN CAMARO OR SHELBY GT 500 U TELL ME."

    Who knows? But assuming you are talking about an LS2 equipped Camaro (400hp / 400 ftlbs.) vs. a Shelby GT500 (in excess of 450hp /450 ftlbs.), on paper the Shelby seems to have an advantage. Of course, I've no idea what an LS2 Camaro would weigh (and the GT500 is certainly no lightweight), and who knows which does a better job of getting all the power to the ground.

    Maybe we should just wait until these cars are actually BUILT before guessing who would win....?
  • camaro41106camaro41106 Member Posts: 1
    The camaro concept is a freakingg sexy car IMO and its gonna be pretty quick. and also why doesnt anyone like the huge rims? i think they look good...
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