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Any Diesel Light Trucks on the Horizon?

I've just about broken in my '98 Jetta TDI, and I'm about 2-3 years from my next vehicle. If I could design the perfect one, it'd be a diesel 5M 4WD extended cab Canyon/Colorado look-alike. Will there be one available by then? Is there anything in the near future in the light truck market? A Dakota? A Tacoma? Please? Anyone? Manufacturers, are you reading this? (tap, tap) Is this thing on???

J
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Comments

  • ergoergo Posts: 56
    The only supported rumors I've heard are twofold:

    1. Chevrolet Colorado w/ the upcoming Turbo diesel DEFINITELY coming for the Hummer H3. :) Mules of the TRUCK (not SUV) have been spotted with 2.8 and other labels on it.

    2. The upcoming Jeep Wrangler and specifically Gladiator type pickup will have a turbo diesel engine option.

    Rumor: The fact that Dodge Calibers are getting one (for sure) should bode well for other DC variants. Have seen nothing on the Dakota however. The Nitro shares the Liberty platform, so that's an option for DC.

    The other manufacturers have them worldwide, but nothing firm for the US. :cry:
  • jkinzeljkinzel Posts: 735
    Still looking for the Ford Ranger with maybe a 2.2L diesel. :shades: Maybe in my life time it might happen.
  • Am looking for diesel compact pickup, ie: toyota tacoma, nissan frontier, ford ranger, etc. Have to consider used only as don't believe any have been produced in last ten years. Any info on availability, models, specifications, etc. is appreciated.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    The used ones are over 20 years old. They are insanely overpriced. Parts are difficult to obtain.
    They are not worth the trouble.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    don't believe any have been produced in last ten years.

    Millions have been produced. Small diesel PU trucks are the standard over the World except here. Gas is too cheap and the automakers don't want to buck the EPA or the oil companies. After all a PU that gets 40 MPG is only half the petro dollars of a 20 MPG PU.

    Mopar is right about trying to keep an old one going. Unless you are a mechanic forget it. Most are rusted out. Engine may still run good. Everything else is falling apart.
  • bigfurbigfur Posts: 649
    That Ford is looking to put a small V-6 diesel into the F-150. Read a little about it in the new issue of Truck Trend...might be their websight if you want more info.
  • ezshift5ezshift5 West coastPosts: 858
    ....Engine may still run good. Everything else is falling apart.

    ....Yes & Yes. '82 Rab diesel here: 289 odo - orig I4D. Big-time non-engine work the last 21 years (local VW dealer loves me)

    Moral: never fall in love with a trucklet (even if the little dude is 55 MPG capable at 55 MPH)

    best, ez
  • shufflesshuffles Posts: 50
    Toyota sells a compact diesel pickup in Mexico. I don't know what it would take to import one into the US. There are companies that import used engines from Japan for about $1,500. (they have to replace their engines after only 30K miles). My nephew's business is putting those engines in old civics. It makes sense to get a compact Toyota pickup with an old, or better yet a blown engine, and put an almost new Japanese diesel in it. It might be possible to pull this off for not too many bucks.
  • ergoergo Posts: 56
    link title

    GLOBAL DIESEL OFFENSIVE.

    Separately, the trade publication also reported that GM is planning a global diesel offensive starting in 2008 that would include launching new diesel engines in the United States, where the technology has found few fans compared to Europe.

    "We are developing right now two highly modern diesel motors that won't just fulfil the Euro-5 emission standards, but (also) the more stringent Bin-5 regulations in the USA," an unidentified GM manager told Automobilwoche.

    It plans to introduce a 2.9 liter V6 and a 4.5 liter V8 that will gradually be used in almost all sport utility vehicles, pick-ups and large sedans in all GM brands and all markets.

    Should the biggest U.S.-based carmaker roll out models with diesel engines on a large scale in the United States, then German carmakers that have specialized in the more fuel-efficient powertrain technology may be able to make greater inroads into the local market.

  • repoman1repoman1 Posts: 64
    ergo - good catch on the Reuters article. Meeting the Tier 2 Bin 5 standard will allow GM to sell the diesels in all 50 States. GM's planned 2008 launch will be a year behind its competition. I expect to see Honda and Toyota diesels in their 2007 model trucks, SUVs and cars. Once again - GM is years behind its competition.
  • shufflesshuffles Posts: 50
    If there is a Tacoma or Frontier diesel available for the 2007 model year, I will certainly buy one. Let's hope!
  • I wrote Toyota, they told me they dont have any plans to use diesels in the USA at this time. I think they bet all their marbles on hybrids.

    Honda said they will bring out diesels in the light truck market as soon as they can meet EPA standards in all 50 states.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Cummins has announced a partnership with an automaker who has asked to remain anonymous (for now) to produce light-duty diesels.

    Cummins Press Release, Jul 26 2006

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • rs_pettyrs_petty Posts: 423
    How about end of the year! I suppose DCX could go to VM Motori for Jeep. I'd love to see the RA630 in the Commander (along with a bigger fuel tank). Wonder what will happen to the thousands of PU & SUVs with gas engines sitting in inventory? A new retrofit industry perhaps.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    The consensus is that Dodge is the "new" customer for the light duty diesels, which is really not a new customer at all.

    4.2-liter V6 that will develop 190 horsepower and a mighty 455 ft-lbs. of torque. The second is a larger 5.6-liter V8 that will generate 260 horsepower and an even mightier 597 ft-lbs. of torque. Both engines will be SOHC with four valves per cylinder and feature Piezoelectric fuel injectors, like the kind Ford is rumored to be using on its next Powerstroke diesel, and variable nozzle turbochargers. If Dodge is indeed the "unnamed automaker," then it's safe to assume the engines will be used in the Ram 1500 and Durango.

    I was told that the engines were for Durango and Ram 1500 by a Cummins engineer when the news first hit and I was hoping this was incorrect as I'd like to see Cummins available from manufacturers other than Dodge, however, there is much consensus that Dodge is the "new" client.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    I could be happy in a Dodge Ram 1500 with a smaller diesel than the current one. Our last four 2005 Ford Powerstrokes were horrible. In the shop with engine sensor problems more than on the road. I have never had a Duramax to drive on a regular basis. I think a V6 Duramax in a 1500 would be dandy. I am waiting and will probably jump on the first decent one to come along. Unless Ford improves vastly it would not be a Ford.
  • orbit9090orbit9090 Posts: 116
    Diesels can get-busy WITHOUT much LUBRICATION and have a lot of MUSCLE...and they are good for the LONG haul, and won't BREAK your BANK.

    image
  • rs_pettyrs_petty Posts: 423
    I just have to challenge the consensus. I see no reason for Dodge to withhold their partnership with Cummins for competitive reasons unless, a)Dodge hasn't told the parent DCX of their deal (which isn't too likely) or, b) Dodge is using it as a publicity tool to get community excitement going - nothing like a good mystery. Withholding client relations makes more sense if it is somebody other than Dodge. Chinese Dongfeng is Cummins second largest customer, but I've heard of no rumors about Chinese pickup trucks - just some economy cars. IH and Ford are on the outs over the Powerstroke and baby PS. GM has Isuzu. My guess would be Ford because the timeframe fits better - Ford is too slow to get any 1/2 ton diesels before 2010. I believe Dodge could put MB or Italian engines in their trucks for 2007. If they wait they will be looking at even bigger inventories filling up the fairgrounds than they have now. OK - shoot down my assumptions. :)
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    Like you stated Ford has had a lot of trouble with the PS from IH. Ford does own Cummins so it would seem logical to use the best diesel engines in your own vehicles.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Ford does not own Cummins, nor have they ever. In the mid 90s they owned less than 10% of Cummins common stock (the same you and I can buy on the stock exchange) because Ford used Cummins as the standard engine in their class 8 trucks. When they sold that business to Freightliner in 1997, they sold the stock as well.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    Well that explains it then.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    What is the point of the old truck picture? What make and year is it?
  • mike91326mike91326 SoCalPosts: 251
    The picture is from the movie Brokeback Mountain.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    I did not see the movie. Was the truck in the movie a diesel or did the movie discuss diesels?
  • jpmeirjpmeir Posts: 4
    I've traveled all over the world. Mid sizes diesels trucks are sold everywhere except in the USA. Currently I'm stationed in Iraq...what do you think we drive? A Ford diesel, 4 door, mid size truck. Love this truck. I drove a green Toyota, 4 dr, diesel, in Hatie for 6 months. Great vehical, at that time is was 6 years old and ran great. Four door trucks were not even sold in the USA than. A mid size diesel truck would sell big in the US. Problem is Ford and GM are so mis managed it will take 4 or 5 dollar per gal to maybe change the mind set of these companies. It's upsetting to know that the Big 2 1/2 keep the American driver in the dark.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    I think most of the blame lies with the EPA and CARB. They have all but blocked the sale of mid sized diesel PU trucks and cars. You want a big fire breathing, CO2 spewing 1 ton diesel truck, No problem. You are right, a mid sized diesel truck would sell very well in the US if offered. I have waited for 10 years for just that vehicle to arrive here. Still waiting.

    Welcome to the Forum!!!
  • stmn1stmn1 Posts: 1
    Just check the international sites for ford gm Isuzu Nissan Mitsubishi, they all sell a small diesel pickup every place except North America. Look at Isuzu of Belize or Great Britain. The real question is "Why can't we buy this truck here?"
  • jamesp5jamesp5 Posts: 3
    Thank you for posing this question. I have not been able to understand why the availability of a light duty diesel pickup has not already hit the U.S. They are available in many other countries, but not here. You can't tell me this isn't political? Anyway, I have asked several people the same question with no knowledgeable response. You apparently like your Jetta. I really wanted to buy a TDI, but my wife who lives and breathes by Consumer Reports wouldn't let me do it, in spite of the fact that all the VW and more specifically TDI owners I have talked to really like their cars. Thanks, Jim
  • blufz1blufz1 Posts: 2,045
    Honda Ridgeline. Fall '08.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 28,138
    got a solid source on that?

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 52-car history and counting!

  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the EPA, CARB, and various enviro-wacko pressure groups. It is incredibly difficult to get a diesel engine to meet the current CARB (and coming) pollution regulations for cars and light duty trucks. The solution that Mercedes will be using in the 2008 model year (urea injection, etc.) will add over $1000 in cost to the engine.

    Both Ford and GM are working on smaller diesels for their light-duty pickup trucks. But it will be at least a couple years before they get here.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 28,138
    The solution that Mercedes will be using in the 2008 model year (urea injection, etc.) will add over $1000 in cost to the engine.

    Hmmm... not sure about that. Mercedes is using that now in the E320 Bluetec and that car is $1k more than its gasser counterpart ... just like the R320cdi (nonbluetec) is $1k more than its gasser counterpart. So the bluetec diesel costs the same premium that the nonbluetec does.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 52-car history and counting!

  • shufflesshuffles Posts: 50
    Honda is going to meet the regs in all 50 states without using urea injection. Before now, Honda could have been selling deisels in 49 states, but they refuse to sell anything that can't be sold in all 50 states.
  • woofwoof Posts: 27
    I too am waiting for a nice mid-size diesel pickup; it then won't take much for me to replace my '06 Tacoma. Oh, I have two VW TDI's, just added the second. The first, a '02 Golf has been the best vehicle I ever owned, so much better than the '02 Accord it replaced that I would have never believed it myself had I not experienced it. Do not, and I repeat, do not simply only go by what CU or auto reviewers write. I'm a fanatical engineer and have too many times found that reviewers have an agenda or simply don't know enough other than having an opinion or 'first impression.' The TDI's are great, not only for 50MPG, but for fine torque, handling, fun, sound (quieter than my Accord at highway speed) and longevity.
  • jamesp5jamesp5 Posts: 3
    Thanks for your candid response. I too drive an Accord. Good car, but agree about road noise. Surprised Honda hasn't tackled this issue. Mine is an 03 and 4th Accord. Really wanted to buy a TDI last time around, but the boss wouldn't let me because she lives and breaths by Consumer Reports. At the same time, everyone I talked to who owned a TDI loved the car. Currently spending $600/mo on gas. Tired of wasting money. Wish they still put the diesel in the Golf/Rabbit. Used will do fine.
  • woofwoof Posts: 27
    You're welcome. I emailed VW and asked about a diesel Rabbit; they replied plans are only for a '08 diesel Jetta. There are still some new '06 Jetta TDIs around, but expect to pay about $25k. I drove one, and while it's quite good, I actually preferred the older version (more fun), and the Golf handles slightly better and costs even less. After much searching, I recently found a '05 Golf TDI with 12k miles (just wanted another). My '02 TDI with 108k miles still looks and runs great, still puts a smile on my face when driving it. I had many Accords and Acuras, but I like the VWs much more after living with them. There are some dealers specializing in used VWs and TDIs you can check. I've already seen people at the diesel pump with over 250k trouble-free miles on their TDIs and they still love 'em. Good luck with the boss!
  • blufz1blufz1 Posts: 2,045
    See if the "boss" will spring for some Goodyear Assurance comfortreads. Quieter and much smoother ride. Hope this helps.
  • jamesp5jamesp5 Posts: 3
    Already have comfortreads. Used to work for Goodyear and they make a darn good tire. Bought cheaper tires in the past and you definitely get what you pay for. Even wrecked a car once due to cheaper tires. Wont do it again. The Comfortreads are a definite improvement though. Thanks for the suggestion anyway.
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    gbrozen: The E320 currently on sale does NOT have the adblue urea injection system. That is coming for the 2008 model year.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 28,138
    uhhh... then why do they call it a Bluetec Diesel???

    but, yes, it would seem they are calling them bluetec diesels, but the urea injection is a module to be added later. I don't know what the cost of that module is, however.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 52-car history and counting!

  • gfr1gfr1 Posts: 55
    According to the MBUSA Mercedes owners club magazine, "The Star", the urea tank will last for a nominal 10,000 miles between service. It isn't planned to be a large tank, though it represents about 1-3% of diesel use. The larger figures you may see relate to larger diesels. They need a larger ratio, as well as the smaller engines can get by with out urea (maybe). Honda, with current technology, plans not to need urea injection, but if they increase engine size much from their current 2.2 liters, they might have some issues. The current Mercedes diesel engine is still called a Bluetec because that's the engine that will be used, but for the 2007 model year, without the injection. The servicing is still up for grabs, as I know it, because the EPA hasn't signed off on their planned tank servicing during regular service. Other servicing options are available, but most others require systems out of the control of Mercedes. And, they have to give EPA pretty positive commitments that they can prevent any user from ignoring or bypassing the urea system, which, as you might appreciate, can be quite a challenge. -- GFR1
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    "uhhh... then why do they call it a Bluetec Diesel???"

    Marketing. Nothing more, nothing less.

    For quite a while, VW was selling all-wheel drives using the name "4Motion." Thing is, it was actually two very different systems -- Torsen in the larger cars and Haldex in the smaller cars.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Before now, Honda could have been selling deisels in 49 states, but they refuse to sell anything that can't be sold in all 50 states Really?

    Honda sells the natural gas Civic only in CA and NY.
    Clearly, Honda has ZERO problems refusing to sell a vehicle in 48 other states.
  • In Asia, Isuzu offers a 3 liter diesel in the Chev Colorado pickup in both 2.5 liters and 3 liters. It has been upgraded for 2007 to be 265 foot pounds of torque and 162 american horsepower. ( Not DIN ) Both engines are 4 cylinders and both have turbochargers and intercoolers. The 2.5 liter is not offered with an automatic trans.

    If you are a farmer or a mining company you can get a used 2007 truck with chassis cab or all the same models as offered in North America. Those 2 entities are exempt from emissions if one or 2 trucks are brought into the country at a time. IF you have the cash, and know about letters of credit ( all banks do ) you can get a right hand drive truck which is identical in all respects to the North American sold Chev Colorado. You need to order the service CD'S for your mechanic and a case of air filters to last you at least 2 years. I am also interested in getting one so let me know by posting here a response if you want to get a group of people together to ship at least 6 of these trucks to North America. Contact the moderators of this website and ask if they could act as an agent for a small fee, for each vehicle. This way it is allowing this website to help cover some of the costs for a few people who might actually be ready to pony up with the cash or letter of credit to order one.

    If you are serious, your local Isuzu heavy truck dealer will be able to service the diesel engine for you so make sure there is one within a reasonable driving distance to your home or job. If you want to buy one, lets get a group together here as it only pays to ship if you have an order for at least 6 trucks. You can get brand new left hand drive units but they will have to have Mexican licence plates on them and you will have to pay Mexican insurance with a rider allowing you to drive in the USA.

    It is not a problem to do this if we get a group together and your insurance may end up being cheaper this way than having your insurance only in the USA.

    In truth, diesel or biodiesel is really not the best way to go. You are better off ordering a Chev Colorado or GMC Canyon or Isuzu pickup new at your local dealer with the inline 5 cylinder engine of 3.7 liters. It has 242 HP and the same torque coming in at a low 2,800 RPM. It has been boosted up for 2007 with even higher compression ratio of 10.3 to one. Post a message here before you order the truck and i can refer you to conversion shops around North America to have propane port fuel injection installed. There is 2 types of propane injection, one that uses liquid propane and the other much more advanced system that uses a fuel injector at each cylinder to inject propane gas vapours. The later way is better because the propane is heated up ( in a small section of the tank ) before it reaches the injectors. Injecting liquid propane cools the engine too much as propane is very, very cold when it turns from a liquid to a gas vapour. It has such a cooling effect that you can burn your hands if they touch the propane nozzle when adding fuel to the tank.

    All the gasoline system is left in place so it will be a dual fuel truck. It automatically starts on gasoline and after 3 or 4 minutes it switches to propane. If you then end up running out of propane. it switches back to gasoline automatically. Even your mom could drive that without having to manually switch. In fact, all the Manuals are being run out of the country by INS agents anyway...lol

    Propane is 105 octane ( R+M ) and costs 2/3 the price of diesel or gasoline at the pump in the USA and about half the price of gasoline or diesel in Canada. Propane burns so clean that your engine will last 2 or 3 times longer than running on gasoline. This compares to the same life of a diesel engine but with maintenance costs and fuel costs much lower.

    Many taxi cabs and limos and smaller cargo trucks in this area have used propane for the past 25 years as i have in commercial vehicles. I have driven over 1 million miles on propane and about another 500,000 miles in diesel cars and commercial trucks. In the colder areas of North America, below 5 degrees F above or minus 20 celcius, any diesel is very hard to start and takes way too long to warm up. Why warm up an engine for 15 minutes when diesel cost $3 to $4 a gallon or more?? By the way, you get a federal tax credit of $3,000 for converting your car or trucks to use propane. So why would you want to use diesel? Thats for a truck with a gross weight of no more than 5,000 pounds. The tax credit jumps to $5,000 if the truck is over 10,000 gross weight rating. Not to be ignored in the whole scheme of things. Don't forget that a diesel engine costs about $8,000 more than the base gas engine in the 3 major pickup trucks available in North America. You end up paying sales taxes and finance charges on that amount as well so the real cost is closer to $11,000 or $12,000 over 48 months. So, does anyone want to change their thinking??
  • I'd like more info on propane conversion. Currently drive a '94 Isuzu Trooper in WI that I'd like to convert, and possibly my '00 Camry as well. I have some experience driving propane in fuel injection systems in Argentina where these systems are VERY common, and like it a lot. I'm not all that mechanically inclined, so do-it-yourself would be a stretch for me. Could you send me info on reputable shops that could do the conversion?

    Thanks...
  • OK, here goes. I will give you the fast response for many reasons. For your older trooper, go with a carb system. If you have less than 65,000 miles or so on your 2000 Camry, then you can use the higher cost port fuel injection system on this condition. You are going to keep the car atleast 4 more years and you drive more than 20,000 miles per year. If that is the case, contact me back here via this site. To save over $800, you can use a carb propane system on your Camry if you drive less or want to sell the car within the next 3 years.
    The LPG fuel injection system will save at least 15 percent on fuel costs, but do the math.
    Here is a link to follow and when that website opens, there are more links. Send an email to them and they will recommend a conversion shop that does smaller cars such as yours that is close to you. Make sure that the engine is in perfect shape. If it is not, do not bother. If the Camry has high miles on it, do a valve and ring job first. Use the best parts only. Trust me, if you have blowby in your engine, it will not run properly on propane as the LPG burns twice as fast as gasoline and at a hotter temperature. Add an engine oil cooler and a auto trans cooler. Those 2 items are a must. Add coil over shocks in the rear for a level load whn the tanks are full. An rear air shock system with remote air valve is even better. Put in the biggest tank that you can, Remember you want to run dual fuel but good is a 15 gallon tank?
    tell the conversion shop that you promise to run premium gasoline when you are on gasoline so they can set up the engine to get the best mileage on propane. Remeber, LPG is 105 octane ( R + M ) and the only way to get good mileage is to set it up to run with maximum timing.
    OK, here is a link but they go after the V8 market so they can refer your to another company. Impco has the biggest number of applications so contact them as well. My first car in 1981 used an Impco carb system. It was dual fuel in a Crown Vic with a 351. What a pig it was on gasoline. We used it as a taxi cab. LPG was great on it.

    Here is the link.
    http://www.cleanfuelusa.com
  • mark4biodiesel, did you ever look into importing the diesel trucks. I was in Argentina in July and they were all over the place, Fords and Toyotas. If you have any info on importing these trucks please let me know.
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    sfsparky:

    You basically can't import vehicles to the US. They don't meet EPA and NHTSA regulations. The cost to bring the pollution, crash safety, and other systems in compliance would be excessive.
  • blufz1blufz1 Posts: 2,045
    Ridgeline 2010.
  • As for the NHTSA, these Chev trucks were the prototype for the american made trucks. There is no big bumber spec difference that cannot be altered as we have brought many americn cars into Canada and had to change the bumper shocks to meet our specs. Some cars, had to have the front seat belts changed on police Chev cars when they has bucket seats. As for the diesel engine and highway safety specs, there are exemptions for mining companies and farmers.
    If you go back and read all my posts, you will see how to solve all those problems for the average joe. Just have them registered in Mexico and get insurance from there. There are other exemptions but if any one wants to know, i would be happy to help them nut not in this forum as it is a business matter an i am not allowed to solicit business in here.
    If you read my blogs properly, you will see that i recommend propane as the best fuel because in the USA it cost 2/3 the price of gasoline or diesel. Propane has 18% hyrdogen content and burns very, very clean so the engine lasts 2 or 3 times longer than a gasoline engine. Independant tests show a power increase of 2 percent when useing a propane fuel injection system and leaving the stock gasoline system in place in case you run out of propane.
This discussion has been closed.