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Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4 or Subaru Forester?
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Comments
"It would be easier and so would assuming the Honda lots should be full of used domestics. But they're not from what I've seen."
Maybe they just send them to the dump? :P
Seriously, I cannot explain what you see in your area. But it would be difficult for Honda to be gaining market share (which they are), and have the domestics losing it (which is also true), unless more domestic cars buyers were shifting to Hondas. The other imports aren't losing ground, so the gains are not coming at their expense.
I've done some searching, but I can't find any direct evidence to support your proposal. And, furthermore, all the trends which might support it indirectly point in the opposite direction.
Unless you've got more than what you see on a dealers lot, I have no choice but to call the idea a wild guess.
Need to go find Morris now and tell him the news.
The one I saw certainly appeared to be a regular tire. Anyone have a link to verify what it is?
I live in the Philly area, and I'm constantly seeing 1st generation CR-Vs on the road. I have yet to see a 2007 on the road. In fact, I haven't seen a 2007 in person because I refuse to go to a dealer to check it out. I have a 2006, and I don't see that many 2006s on the road either.
I agree that they are shifting elsewhere but I also believe Honda's share is increasing because they've been introducing totally new models like the Ridgeline and Fit for example. The other marque's sales seem to be pretty level after the first few months of a new design. That's another reason I feel Honda has a higher rate of exchange, loyalty, or whatever you want to call it. Their sales numbers don't exactly set the world on fire consistently.
The CR-V has been a steady, and large seller for Nissan, not only in the US, but worldwide for a decade. Their reliability ratings for the CR-V have been near the top for several years with Consumer's Union and J.D. Power. Ditto for customer loyalty.
Unless Sir Carlos purchased Honda Motors this morning? :shades:
I see them all over the place, there's one here at work and I've seen at least 3 out on the road. They seem to be off to a good start.
The RDX has been out longer and I have only seen 1 or 2.
-juice
And that is exactly what I'm talking about. Honda customers are very loyal. It just seems to me that they are loyal to the point that they have to have the latest model all the time and that can explain higher than normal sales for new Honda vehcles, the CR-V in this case, in the first few months of "change" years.
What facts can you provide to explain the unusually high volume of CR-V sales this past month? So far my "little corner of the world" observations hold more water than anything else posted to date IIRC. :P
LOL....phone call, and distracted.
If I were in the market for a CR-V today, for my money I would go for a heavily-discounted, factory incentive-laden '06.
My theory is this....market share is measured in %, not absolute numbers. So, theoretically, as the car-buying population increases, if all (or even a majority of) the new buyers are buying Hondas and other imports, the domestics would lose market share without actually having any of their existing customer-base defect to the competition.
This has been the "BIG" story since the trend was noticed ten years ago. Even being in the Amazon or Yucatan, one couldn't have missed it, or the devastating effect it has had on Detroit. GM and Ford's only really profitable units are not involved in manufacturing automobiles. Lack of planning and talented management is the cause.
Both Ford and GM are actively looking for a "partner" (read as merger) in Japan, Korea and even China. Honda's small equipment and automobile operations literally saved it a few years ago when Japan's recession almost brought down Mitsubishi and Honda's corporate parent.
Honda was in a much better situation with world-wide sales and better profits than even Nissan, which had to seek a EU partnership to remain viable. Toyota is in such good shape, along with Honda, they have been actively considering buying GM and/or Ford.
:shades:
He has been pretty adamant about the 3G CR-V not meeting Honda's own sales projections. But with the recent sales figures it seems the redesigned CR-V is off to a good start. As I mentioned in my previous post there could be a few reasons for the high initial sales figures. TIme will tell.
That being said I don't disagree with your assessment of the domestic vs. foreign (i.e. Japanese) automaker state of affairs.
Yeah, sales figures are hard to figure or prove, since the manufacturers tell us only what we want to hear, and units can be scattered on their books between here, Canada, the EU, etc.
Well now, that's a reasonable point. Although Honda/Acura has also dumped a few models over the years (Prelude, RSX, Passport, SLX, CL, etc.), I think they've probably added more than they've retired. So, that's a good point.
But when you look at CR-V sales specifically, you still see a pretty steady rise. The first gen maxxed out at about 120,000 units. The second gen maxxed out around 150,000 units. Repeat buyers will only get you so far. The other sales have to come from somewhere.
As for loyalty, yes, Honda has a decent loyalty rating. There are statistics published by the various trend-trackers which rank this. But they are only mildly high. Not significantly higher than Toyota or Nissan. I think Subaru is usually the company at the top of such lists. In the past Saturn has done well, but I don't know if that still applies.
On the other hand, why don't we put a hook in the water for you, Drive?
Back when the rumors stated that the CR-V would be smaller, with less utility and more sport, no ground clearance, a luxury interior, a US-only grill, and a host of other details (which didn't pan out), you thought the CR-V would be a huge success. No problem. I guess you think those were good ideas.
Now, when most of those rumors have been proven false, you still think it's going to be a success. (Flip-flop?)
Apparently, you think it's going to be huge no matter Honda does to it. I think they call that individuals with that mentality "fan-boys". But I'm sure you'll disagree.
Care to explain?
I we are to believe RL Polk then yes, Forester has won its class nearly every year since it was launched, in 1998.
-juice
You are the one who said over and over that the new CR-V wouldn't meet Honda's own sales projections. Or is that not true?
Your quote from Sept. 12
As for whether or not the 2007 CR-V stays at MSRP for long, I kinda doubt it. No matter how much I like the package, the styling is far too controversial. I have doubts that Honda will make their 160K unit goal.
There are dozens of other similar posts from you.
varmint, "2007 Honda CR-V" #539, 29 Aug 2006 11:56 am
drive62, "2007 Honda CR-V" #531, 29 Aug 2006 10:10 am
varmint, "2007 Honda CR-V" #530, 29 Aug 2006 9:44 am
I was kidding around and you respond like that. Take a chill pill Kyle. I haven't spread any rumors about what you said, it's all there for anyone to see. I even remember the guy who specifically said that YOU were all around the forums posting how this CR-V would be a flop. Juice defended you by saying something like "he's one of the most knowledgeable posters" remember that one Juice? Maybe you can find that post as I can't seem to, it might be in a different thread.
Early on the rumors were that the cargo capacity was way down. If anything, varmint is guilty of believing those rumors. Temple of VTEC published them. He believed them.
His forecasts were operating under that assumption, he made that pretty clear more than once.
It's not often I defend varmint, what's wrong with me?
-juice
What I don't understand is why Gm and Ford managmenet still gets paid and still gets bonuses when the company under their leadership has not performed. Where are the stock holders demanding that those people return all their pay and work for minimum wage until they, who are responsible, make the company profitable.
Domestics keep blaming the cost of labor on their failures. The cost of assembly is only 6% at GM, while the executive pay is 15%. I clearly see where the savings can be made. Why don't they?
Same applies to Ford. Bill Ford Jr, screwed up, and hired an advisor who charges $26,000/hour. How about stepping up to the plate and syaing: "I am sorry guys, I didn't know what I was doing, here is your money back, with interest" I know we will never hear that. And when he was "Stepped down" I am sure there was a package to make the transistion sweeter for him.
Lee Iacocca is famous for his $1/year salary but his stock options netted him millions that year.
It's a farce even when they do that.
-juice
But you are correct, my initial projections were based on the assumption that those rumors were correct. This is, of course, the part that Drive62 consistently lies about whenever he attempts to be funny.
That said, I still do not believe the CR-V will make the 160K units forecast consistently. Right now, sales are driven by pent-up demand, new vehicle hype, and the fact that both the 2006 and 2007 models are for sale.
When the honeymoon is over and things get back to normal, I expect sales will drop. For a while, they will probably continue to sell at 2006 levels, but as other new models steal the limelight, comparisons are released, and existing competitors get discounted, sales will likely drop below the rate of the 2nd gen vehicle.
With the 3rd gen, Honda made evolutionary changes to the CR-V. Most of which are good. However, the competition has made revolutionary changes. In past years, there were two or three other vehicles which provided the same qualities as the CR-V. Now most vehicles in the class have copied them and, in some areas, surpassed the CR-V.
We're already seeing posts from buyers getting up to $1K off MSRP on the new CR-Vs. That kind of discounting wasn't needed to sell the 2002 models when they were brand new.
I've made the comparison before, but this CR-V reminds me of the Tribeca. The interior is very nice. The exterior is controversial. The engine is good, but not great. Otherwise, it's a perfectly ordinary vehicle. Ordinary isn't good enough. The most significant difference is that the CR-V already has a strong reputation in the market, while the Tribeca was an unknown.
This did start out as tongue-in-cheek, I even asked if you were a politician (with a nice j/k after it). You turned it ugly. Don't call me a liar again.
Despite some people's concerns, based on initial sales figures, the new CR-V is meeting the car buying public's needs. Seems like another hit for Honda.
Following the theme of "urban sport", the Sport Concept CR-V is designed to increase the athletic feel of the already sophisticated CR-V. Highlights include aerodynamically styled front and rear bumpers along with a sports suspension package that lowers the Sport Concept CR-V for a customized presence.
Custom 19-inch wheels are shod with Bridgestone Potenza tires (245/45R19). Interior modifications focus on the creation of a high-tech, performance-oriented driving environment with the addition of Civic Si synthetic suede fabric on the seating surfaces. Carbon fiber trim panels further accent the interior. Outside, the Sport Concept CR-V is painted in Agile Blue.
Link To Pics/Story
Honda and Acura have reported total vehicle sales of 110,624 for October — an increase of 3.7 percent over last year on a daily selling rate basis. Sales of the all-new 2007 Honda CR-V totaled 20,413, representing an increase of 95.7 percent in its first full month of sales.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/11/02/toyota-reports-record-sales-honda-nissan-- also-up/
Having got that off my chest, I'm sure there's a sizable market that this vehicle will appeal to but Honda sure is steering the CR-V away from its practical roots.
-Frank
Removing the bumper warts from the front is an improvement. While they were never as much of an issue, making the same warts body-colored on the sides reduces their visual impact. Which is also a good thing.
Undecided on the smoked tail lights. Do like the rims. Just needs a bondo job for the grill.
And it was part of the other info I posted. :P
1. Same interior:
We found that the interior of the two cars had similar level of finish and quality. I liked the CR-Vs digital display of odometers better. I wasn't sure about the utility and readability of the mileage meter on CR-V though.
2. Exterior:
Although CR-V has better exterior styling, I did not find the spare tire on RAV4 hideous at all. In fact,
I prefer the spare tire to be normal size (as it is in RAV4) than small size as in CR-V. Some user in a CR-V review pointed out the benefit of a side-swing hatch door
as in RAV4 as compared to CR-V door. I concur with that user in that it is easy to nudge the RAV4 door to close it when your hands are full e.g. after grocery shopping etc
In new CR-V you have to have a free hand to close the door.
3. Cargo Area:
It is a somewhat larger in RAV4. The 2nd row seats can be very easily folded flat by simply pulling two handles in the cargo area. In CR-V one has to go to the seats and pull a metallic loop on each of the seats and press the seat down to fold it.
4. Ride Quality:
CR-V does slightly better than RAV4 on rough patches of the road when in low speed range 10-40mph. In higher speeds, they both feel the same.
5. Second row seating experience:
Almost similar. I found somewhat better armrest area near the door sides in the second row in RAV4.
6. Driving experience:
This is where RAV4 really beats CR-V. RAV4 has an amazing turning radius. My wife and I both discovered that RAV4 has better steering and command. During the test drive, once I had to take an
extremely tight U-turn, one in which I would have to put my
current midsize sedan in reverse gear atleast once. RAV4 made that U-turn with amazing ease and grace. I was like, Wow! that is super.
Later, when my wife was driving the RAV4, because of construction work on the road, she had to make a 90 degree angle right turn because the turning lane was closed. The lane she turned into was the only lane open out of the two, again because of the construction. As soon as she just completed the turn, a big steel cable broke off from a pole and fell right infront of the car! Now, my wife is not a race circuit driver by any means, not even remotely. But, she was easily able to dodge the steel cable. To me, sitting in the car, it seemed like the steel cable was going to get tangled up with the car. I even looked back to see if it was getting pulled with the car.But RAV4 had safely manouvered around it!It seemed like one of those Mercedes commercials to me.
7. We really wanted the car with leather upholstery. We did
some math and found that for less than the cost of a CR-V 4x4 EX-L (leather) we could buy a RAV4 4x4 Base V6 and add aftermarket leather to it. We would get V6 instead of
a 4 cyl and that was a bonus! RAV4 V6 engine is fantastic and CR-V does not offer one. The RAV4 4cyl is similar as CR-V 4cyl engine.
Hope this helps.
-Jimbo Bear
And I prefer the RAV4's styling. It looks more SUV than tall wagon.
IMO, it is strictly a relatively minor evolution of the '06. Some people are doing headstands over the tailgate, and the relocated spare tire. To me...whoopee...no big deal. 10 more hp. Again, not exactly earth-shattering improvement.
Styling is always subjective, and enough has been said about the new styling. But let's just say it ain't going to sell on looks.
As I've said before, if I were in the market now for a compact SUV, I would head straight for a Toyota dealership. And if I were to go for a CR-V, with the bigger discounts and all, I would try to get one of the remaining '06's.
It's disappointing to see Honda take baby steps with the new 'V, especially since Toyota already set the bar with the new RAV4 a year earlier. Instead of swinging for the fence, Honda bunted to advance the runner. :sick:
BTW, how long have you been selling Hondas for?
A swinging rear gate, if one has to parallel park, is problematic. Since it cannot swing into traffic, it then swings toward the curb, blocking your path while unloading. Not to mention a person getting drenched from possible rain. That one item alone, is very important to many users.
My comment was aimed specifically at your remark about the Honda looking like a tall wagon. Before the redesign, I could understand that. Not after. Most SUV's have been redesigned away from the box look.
Anyway, as I have often said here, it's a good thing we all don't like the same, otherwise none of us could buy one!
I was surprised to see that '07 CR-V designers didn't care
to add it.
Count yourself fortunate you don't live in LA, Chicago, Toronto or NYC were most parking is parallel.
However the rear door, the old configuration was a regular negative commented on almost universally by reviewers and automotive buffs.
In new CR-V you have to have a free hand to close the door. "
My hands are usually empty when I am closing the door - I have put my packages in the rear cargo area!
"This is where RAV4 really beats CR-V. RAV4 has an amazing turning radius."
The Gen 2 CR-V has a 34 foot radius, the new one has 37 foot.
If you haven't purchased your RAV4 yet, you might see if you can find a 2006 CR-V SE at a very good discount. That version includes leather seats, and probably more options than your base RAV4 with aftermarket leather.
Ummm, I live in LA, and there are tons of Gen 1 and Gen 2 CR-Vs running around. All with side opening doors...
My biggest problems with the gen 3:
1. Rear vision from those C panels.
2. Cannot open the glass separately from the cargo door. This is a biggie for me.
3. Longer turning radius. This is also a biggie for me.