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2007 and newer Lincoln Navigators

navigator89navigator89 Posts: 1,080
edited July 2014 in Lincoln
Lincoln's fullsize SUV was last redesigned in 2003 with the Ford Expedition. It is being redesigned again for 2007 along with the Ford Expedition to make them competitive with GM's new fullsize SUVs.

I think Lincoln ruined the look of the Navigator. I have always loved how the 2003-2006 generation looked like, but this one is ugly. The front looks like an Explorer and the back like a Zephyr, or should I say MKZ?

And come Ford, give this thing some power. 300hp isnt enough these days. Look at the new Escalade, it has 403hp.

At least the interior looks very nice and classy.

Post pictures, prices and driving impressions here.

Lol, I made my username navigator89 because I like the navigator so much. With this new one out, I should probably change it to escalade89. ;)

Read more and check out the pictures at Inside Line. Wait a few more days and we'll see it at the Chicago Auto Show.
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Comments

  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    :>)

    Is this the thread about the new Lincoln MKN? Will it include the 'L' version? I guess the MKNL? Oh, man, this is too much. All right, to be fair, it's pronounced 'Mark N L'. ... Isn't it?

    :>)

    BTW, I like the look of the tail. Although perhaps they didn't have to use *exactly* the same lights as the Zephyr. Er Z. Ooops, is that Carlos Ghosn's lawyer on the phone to Lincoln now?

    Yeah, the tail's nice, the interior looks at least as nice as my '04, though I *think* I like the dark wood in mine better than this light wood. But overall it's nice inside.

    The grille is another thing. The grille is SO bad that I think it would keep me from buying it. Apparently, I've heard, the "thinking" at Lincoln, assuming some actually occurs there, is that SUV grilles should now have the 'eggcrate' look (but I thought that was the look of FORD SUVs, see Expedition, Explorer Etc) while the cars will keep the waterfall grille. Now, how EXACTLY does this change build brand recognition? After all, that's what they're saying is the reason for the change to the MK_ names - SO the names will be so stupid, the owner will call the car a Lincoln. Geez, the front end of my '04 Navigator IS Lincoln if Lincoln is anything. BIG BOLD BEAUTIFUL WATERFALL grille. This thing I see in these pictures from the front is not a Lincoln. It looks like a Chevy, with the chrome extending into the headlights. It looks like a RAM with the HUGE chrome piece in the center of the hood. Gawd it almost looks like a bug shied! The overall look is even worse than the Avia er ... MK X (Mark Ten?) and that reminds me of the AMC Spirit.

    Hey, I'm sorry but that nose - even Barbra couldn't live with THAT nose.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course. I can see where some people won't like this grill. It is a rather strange interpretation of the look adapted to the MKX grill--which looks more classically 1960's Lincoln (though I wonder how the decision was made to add classic Lincoln CAR flavor to the Lincoln trucks, and then take the actual cars (MKZ and MKS) in a whole other direction).

    I don't find the new front end any more offensive than the old one, which I had gotten used to as saying "Lincoln truck." However, the 2007 look is much more angular and different than the 2003 revision had been. As I have said before, the Navi deserves a NEW BODY after having sported this one since 1998. The new front end underscores that...it looks disjointed to me grafted onto the old body styling. Re-using the 1998 body in 2003 worked with the front and rear changes that year. IMHO, this does not work as well. The 1998 body styling was nice, but it should be gone by now. It is old, and no longer up to the competition.
  • navigator89navigator89 Posts: 1,080
    Lincoln hasn't officially announced what the name for the Navigator will be under their new naming system so as far as we're concerned it will be Navigator...for now. Most likely they will call it MKN. The long wheelbase version will probably be the MKL. MKNL just sounds stupid and I sure hope they dont call it that.

    I cant stand the new tail. The Zephyr lights look horrible.

    My pick in this segment is now officially the Cadillac Escalade.
  • dc661dc661 Posts: 71
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  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    It sure looks like they intend to call it Navigator, what with all the Navigator badges all over it. If they already know the Zephyr is MKZ and the Aviator is now MKX, you'd think they'd already know this one's name too--given they are all being released for sale at the same time.

    Maybe that Mark LT thing is screwing them up. MKLT??? MKL? Is that the pickup or the extended Navi? MKT? MKN? How come none of the letters indicate anything like size or position in the line-up or whether it is a car or a truck? Why is EVERYTHING in the line-up a "Mark" now?

    This Navigator sure doesn't look nearly all-of-piece as the 2007 Expedition does. At least the new front clip of the Ford sort of goes with the old body. Trowel on the chrome, Lincoln...see if that will work. ;)

    Meanwhile, Cadillac has the sales lead, an attractive ALL NEW body and 403 hp. Makes me cry, because I have always liked Lincolns better. Until this century, anyway.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "It sure looks like they intend to call it Navigator, what with all the Navigator badges all over it. "

    Yeah, well they swore up and down a month ago when they announced the MKS and MKX that the Zephyr would remain "Zephyr". But that changed this week. This whole naming thing is pathetic. And imagine the cost of it. This is exactly what happens when a company, any kind of company, becomes defocussed and begins flailing around trying to right a sinking ship with voodoo and mirrors instead of staying the course and building on what you've got that is good.
    My wife used to work in marketing for a (then) well known software company. They became complacent and competitors began to eat their lunch. Then the flailing began: name changes, advertising campaigns, new glossies mailed out, new focus on giving the customer what they want under another new name. Etc etc. Now, 10 to 15 years later the company is all but gone. They are now famous for simply filing lawsuits trying to get others to pay for name and licensing fees. I think that Lincoln is well down this road.
    I speak as someone who owns 2 Lincolns and is quite pleased with both of them, though I am fully aware that they are not perfect. I also own 2 Fords and each of these is a good, reliable vehicle. But I do not like what I see in the "Way Forward".
    Briefly, what has Lincoln donw in the last 7 or so years?
    1) Dropped the Mark VIII coupe. Replaced with nothing.
    2) Dropped the Continental. Replaced with nothing.
    3) Dropped a fine (IMHO) tag line - "American Luxury" - along with "What a luxury ___ should be." and then dreamed up and dropped several other lamer and lamer 'slogans' like "" and "" and now "Reach Higher". (Sorry, for the life of me I can't recall these lame slogans though I commented on how bad they were in the past. I guess they were forgettable as well as bad).
    4) In a dramatic coup, released the LS, which became Motor Trend's Car of the Year and was even praised by the "unbiased" testers at Consumer Reports as "the best American Sedan they ever tested". This well-made sedan shared it's platform with the Jaguar S-Type and, while it's appearance both in and out won no awards, it's performance on the track was the equal of the standard - BMW.
    5) Let the LS languish for 7 years, pausing only to make some much-needed interior improvements and add some HP but cancel the good will this generated with enthusiasts by discontinuing the 5speed Getrag transmission option in the car's 4th year.
    6) Cancelled the LS, the best Lincoln in many years after letting in languish. Complaining it was too expensive to build. (Comment - perhaps if they had given it an interior and exterior truly worthy of a luxury car they could have charged premium prices for it.)
    7) Decided to compete in the 'mid-size' SUV market. To do so, took the blueprints for the Navigator, inside and out and put them in the copier set to 'Reduce' until they fit the Explorer platform. Rushed the vehicle out the door and it was perhaps the most trouble-prone Lincoln in a long time.
    8) After 3 years, cancelled the Aviator.
    9) Began working on the next-gen Aviator alongside the Ford Edge (which does not, at least I presume it does not, replace the Explorer).
    10) Began working on a replacement for the LS. Called the Zephyr. Released the Zephyr before it was ready. The car is panned by many as underpowered and not competitive in the entry luxo setting. Notably the car has a 6 speed transmission, but the driver has NO control over it's operation. A FWD appliance car if there ever was one.
    11) Someone (he or she should be hunted down and neutered) convinced Lincoln that no one knows what a Lincoln is because people call their cars 'Town Cars' or 'Navigators' etc, so to build 'Brand Image', Lincoln should name their cars "MK _" where "_" is some letter which seemingly stands for nothing. And they BOUGHT it.
    12) Announced in Detroit in Jan 2006 that all Lincolns from now on would be named this way and showed the "MK S" which some say will be the Lincoln flagship sedan but others say there is another even bigger car in the works to fill this role, and the "MK X" which they said is what the vehicle they were calling the Aviator will now be called. Oh, but wait, they also said the Zephyr will be the exception and will continue to be called the Zephyr.
    13) The MK S and MK X received little to no positive press at the show. (Comment - personally I like the MK S, but would have preferred something which builds on Lincoln cachet rather than tries to copy Acura, Lexus, Audi etc and didn't have such a feminized interior; but I think the front end of the MK X is butt ugly.)
    14) Someone convinced Lincoln that their SUVs should drop the familiar waterfall grille and pick up chromized egg-crate grilles (which is what the Ford SUVs have sported for years). Thus the MK X (which looks more like a 70's AMC Spirit than anything else) and ...
    15) Showed the 2007 Navigator - hey wait a minute - "Navigator"? What happened to "MK _"? No word on that yet but the vehicle shown has Navigator badging. Unfortunately, it also has an egg-crate grille which IMHO is about the ugliest horrendous-looking front end on a car since the Checker. Although I have a Nav and love it, I wouldn't be caught dead in this new one.
    16) Oh, wait, back to the naming thing - remember the "Zephyr"? Well, they announced that it will be discontinued and it's replacement will be called the MK Z. Yep, they (basically) cancelled the Zephyr within 6 months of it's release, replacing it with what it should have been to begin with perhaps.

    Does it seem to anyone else that they are totally cluless? Seriously.
  • navigator89navigator89 Posts: 1,080
    Go to desktopmachine.com and navigate around :P and you can find some amazing quality wallpapers to download. I got the one of the interior, because I dislike the exterior so much.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    That grille is awful, looks like chicken wire!

    M
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    You do make several good points!

    I disagree with your about the MKX front end. I think it is one of the better parts of a blandly styled vehicle. If you squint, you can get a hint of a new Lincoln style grill used on the last several Lincoln concept vehicles (including the Aviator concept whose look and name were both dumped).

    The new Lincoln front end was supposed to evoke the classic 60's Lincoln look. Why they dumbed it down so much, I don't know. Yes, here and on the 07 Navigator, it is starting to look more Ford egg-cratey and less like anything that says Lincoln. And I do think the rendition on the Navi is much worse than on the MKX. I do hope like akirby that the thing looks better in real life. It could happen.

    But oh my, why would Lincoln take its most expensive and one of its most well-received vehicles down this road of neglect? Yes, I know it has a 6 speed now and a frame stiffening, BUT (obviously I still can't get over this) THEY ARE STILL USING THE 1998 BODY FOR PITY'S SAKE in this latest revamp; therefore the front and rear re-do's (afterthoughts?) don't look like they fit. The auto/truck world is moving way too fast now for such half-hearted efforts. This was a flagship and cash cow for Lincoln in the not-to-distant past. I am so hoping this thing looks better up close and in the metal.
  • At least they have done something.

    Compare the huevos it took to make this compared to the Ford 500 or even the style-less Aviator.

    I commend them for stepping out a bit. I agree, they should have disguised the greenhouse a bit.

    Let's just hope it's not named MKNXL or something like that.

    I actually hope they give the Mark LT a similar update.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    the Lincoln Navigator going retro?

    image

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    From the grille to the seat design it looks like a 70's Chrysler or something to me. Whoever designed that chicken wire of a grille should be fired on the spot. I used to kinda like this truck!

    M
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    When is Ford gonna learn to put covers over those gaping cupholder holes...at least on their upmarket vehicles??
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "And for another opinion, see...

    http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=6563&categoryId=9 "

    Oh boy, that was brutal. THis might be a first for Lincoln - picked as WORST of show. They deserve it though.

    I gotta go put an ad in the paper for my Navigator. Can't hang with this anymore.
  • gregagrega Posts: 31
    I've owned (2) Navi's in the past 5-years and was seriously looking forward to the '07 as I live in Chicago.

    But this frontend is a total deal killer for me and several Navi-friends. We all hate it!

    Ford made this same mistake when they "revolutionized" the Taurus redesign in the mid '90's. Instead of an evolutionary redesign, like Toyota and Honda do with their vehicles, Ford oval designed the Taurus and alienated its loyal customers and the rest, as they say, is history.

    Ford just did an "emergency" redesign and name change of the Zephyr-MKZ, only 4-6 months on the market. I pray they delay the launch of this Navi-GRATE-or and integrate the MKS grill that would be much more evolutionary.

    Bottomline - There is a total lack of long-term strategic planning in Detroit and the primary reason they will not beat Toyota, who has a 25+ year strategic plan. Just look at the new Toyota/Lexus designs, how they are "evolutionary" with continuous refinement on a planned 4-5 year redesign schedule for most vehicles (ex. Camry, ES350, RX, Avalon, etc.) This is the lesson Detroit must learn before its too late, or is it for the Navi-GRATE-or?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I agree with you on the Navigrate, but I don't think "evolutionary" is necessarily the way for Ford to go. Toyota can go with boring, because the underlying appliance is so good. However, Ford's greatest successes are often not evolutionary. Think 61 Continental, the original Mustang, the 1979 Mustang re-design after the forgettable Mustang II, the original Explorer, the 1988 Continental (a successful design for its time), the 1990 Town Car, and the 1997 F150.

    The original Taurus was revolutionary--but then Ford waited, as usual, too long to redesign it and then came up with the 1992 evolutionary design. Granted, it sold well for a couple years. The 1996 abomination just showed they had no understanding why the initial car sold so well. You need new or even revolutionary styling--not just weird or silly. They fixed the roof and tail end in 2000, but unfortunately stuck with the rest of the mess.

    Be careful of what you ask for: Ford's idea of "evolutionary" is to hang onto the same body and change the front, rear and interior every few years. These cautious re-makes fool some people, but they do not spur sales very much.

    Ford needs good, integrated designs across the board--not rehashes. If heritage design values can be successfully incorporated, so much the better (e.g., Mustang, GT, the 2002 Continental concept). But clumsy attempts to be "inspired" by past Lincoln design can result in that food grater 2007 Navi grill grafted onto the previous design. It just makes you wonder why they pay for top designers when they will not let them do their best work.
  • gteegtee Posts: 179
    I have to say that this is the ugliest front end that I have ever seen on a car. The funny thing is that 2003-2006 Navigator front end looked very nice and classy. Who was the designer who came up with this?

    The interior looks ok, not much different from the current version. The only thing that I don't like are the square gauges. They looked bad in the 70's and they still look bad now. And where is the fuel gauge. I can only see the tach and the speedo, but where are the rest of the gauges. Are we back to idiot lights again? Even the wooden steering wheel looks funny with 2 wood inserts in the middle.

    The 2007 Expedition looks much better both inside and out. I think that Lincoln is really loosing it now. First they come up with Zephyr and four months later they redesign it and rename it to MKZ. Who ever heard of a company changing a car after 4 months? Its insane. Now the Uglied Up Navigator.
  • gteegtee Posts: 179
    Congratulations. This is the most intelligent and well written post that I have read in a long time.

    What about the Mark LT? Will they put the same ugly grill on the Mark LT as on Navigator and call it MK LT.

    What about the fiasco with the CVT transmission in Ford 500 and Freestyle. Ford spend 6 years developing this technology and used only on two cars for two years and now they will close the Batavia factory which makes it. Talk about untold millions of dollars wasted.
  • ace35ace35 Posts: 131
    The more I look @ this thing the more i like it, especially the interior. I just wish they would have kept the classy electroluminescent gauges. The exterior is ok, minus the overdone grill treatment, but i think with a nice aftermarket grill, this would be one nice luxury suv. It has a nice upscale presence to it, something the escalade never had to me.
  • ace35ace35 Posts: 131
    oh yea i forgot, where are the LED tailights ?? come on lincoln, even the entry level Zephyr gets em. A missed opportunity i think
  • I don't think that the problem with the Navigator is the ugly grill, even though I think that the perverse over-use of chrome will not help it at all.

    The biggest problem is that the other large American luxury SUV, the Cadillac Escalade, has made many technological advances, whereas the Navigator really hasn't.
  • True, the Lincoln came out a year before the Cadillac and basically created the Luxury American SUV.

    The Cadillac has been completely refreshed three times so far.
    The Lincoln is still using the same body shell as when they were introduced 9 years ago.

    An electric shaver inspired grille can't hide that.
  • ace35ace35 Posts: 131
    Yea i agree as far as the Escalade making technological advances, however, the Navi has always been up to date. With the 2nd generation it used IRS, power deployed running boards, navigation system, power liftgate, xenons, etc. The Escalade is just now getting serious about being a lux. suv.
  • I agree it's been a superior vehicle, but all that good stuff is still being attached to a 10 year old body shell.

    That's simply not going to cut it.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H EdmundsPosts: 11,114
    A major national newspaper would like to interview those who bought a 2007 Lincoln Navigator or a Cadillac Escalade and got a sizable discount off the sticker price. Please respond to [email protected] before Wednesday, March 1, 2006 with your daytime contact info and a few words about the model you chose.

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  • nitephirenitephire Posts: 11
    The Navigators design is not the problem its the underpowered engine that it has had for seven years now.
  • vfabianvfabian Posts: 1
    The press release says they paid attention to customers' requests, but I doubt that. If that were true, the first thing they would have changed is the fuel thirsty engine. You can't close your eyes to the changes in the market. More and more people are going with hybrids even if they hate them. City buses have hybrid engines, so why can't a full size SUV have one too? It makes it look like there's some secret deal between car manufacturers and oil companies! The next thing they would have changed is the plastic, fragile bumpers. A no mile an hour fender bender will mess up the bumper and all the plastic/fragile/expensive components located right behind it. They want to compensate with more airbags; we need better, more durable, fuel efficient, tuff trucks. Vans are not that long and have better cargo room than SUVs...what's going on with design/engeneering here? Why mess up the design of something that was beautiful to begin with? A company who doesn't listen to their customers and who doesn't change with the times, will fail and disappear.
  • Ford took the old 1997-2002 Expedition/Navigator body and basically inserted a new vehicle under it, in 2003 while keeping the same old look. Even at the height of the SUV craze, sales forecasts were never realized and it struggled against inferior products.

    The Navigator became second-class in a class it created.

    They did the same thing with the Explorer- Revising and improving everything but reused the same body shell- and for the first time, it got outsold by the Trailblazer.

    Thay did it again with the 2007 Sport-trac; making it "all new"- except the body shell.

    The 2007 Navigator has a ton of improvements but still uses the 10 year old body and doors. It will continue to struggle.

    Don't most car makers take an old car and try to make it look new?
    Why does Ford take new vehicles and then put old bodies on the chassis?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I think because they saw it as a way to cut the cost of the redesign, thinking as akirby and a few others, that most people won't notice. I think the sales declines do say that even if some people DON'T overtly notice the recycled body (thinly disguised with new front clip, tailgate and trim), it still fails to inspire a lot of people to go out and get a new one.
  • ljcaljca Posts: 2
    I've read the comments here and in the end I was dumb founded and surprised at the level of negative responses. It seems as though the people responding are not owners of current Ford/Lincoln SUVs. I have owned several fords over the last 30 years or so. Most were highly reliable vehicles. Regrettably, they tended to have issues with the design of minor cosmetic components (including the interior, body trim, etc.) Nevertheless, they provided good value for the money. My most recent Ford vehicle is a 2004 Expedition, prior to that a 1998 Expedition, and F150s. I also own a BMW 8 series, and have owned several other luxury cars from different manufacturers. I say this to show that I have no "loyalty" to Ford. In fact, my father was a Chevy lover.

    Prior to purchasing either of the SUVs I researched and test drove vehicles from accross the market (e.g. Cadillac, Lexus, Navigator, Hummer, etc.) In both the SUV purchases I found the Expedition to the best bang for the buck. The Navigator offered several creature comforts, but those comforts were not worth the additional increase in price (at least not to me). I believe Ford is being honest in their attempts to listen to customers. I have 4 issues with the Expeditions I own and have owned:

    1) Common clutch pack failure (every 20k miles)
    2) Leather cracks (multiple replacements under warranty)
    3) 3rd Row Power seat is "wonderful" but there is little or NO usable room behind the 3rd seat (e.g. for luggage) when the 3rd seat is being used
    4) The vehicle is too noisy in side (even with top of the line Mich. Tires.

    Other than these issues, the vehicles perform(ed) flawlessly and are a pleasure to drive (the recent independent suspension upgrade in the rear made a real difference).

    As a result of the additions to the NEW navigator I will be selling my 2004 Expedition and upgrading to the 2007 Navigator. I "like" the new grill and think that the old waterfall grill lacked style, was plain and feminine (soccer mom looking). The new look is more modern, high tech with a touch of retro design. The body line is more angular and streamlined, and there is a hint of the old Lincoln design in it. I don't particularily like the new gauges, but that is not such a big issue. What is important, is that the vehicle is easily distinguishable as a 2007 Navigator, that the new transmission (2nd generation) is smoother, more efficient, and more reliable. The vehicle is much quieter. It is still very safe, the leather and seating have been improved (both in quality of materials and design). The extra space in the extended version is what I need (big deal for me), and with that extra space you get an increase in the gas tank.

    In regard to gas mileage, it is just fine. In fact, on the freeway with non-agreesive driving, I often get 25 mpg (the same as a late 90s Olds Achieve with 4 clynders) that I kept around for a spare vehicle.

    Compared to the options, Ford makes the best SUV for the money, and has the best over all vehicle regardless of money. The independent suspension in the rear and power fold flat 3rd row seat are icing on the cake. The engine is tried and true and I have never in either Expedition, nor in any of the F150s "ever" had an issue with the engine. The vehicles is only further enhanced when purchased with the TOW PACKAGE (heavy duty radiation, extra cooler, etc) ** I don't even want to talk about the problems with the over priced BMW that is sitting in the driveway..nothing but problems, high costs of repair, etc...and it gets even worse gas mileage.

    The Lexus doesn't compare in size, the Hummers are terrible to drive and have inefficient use of internal space and many less luxury features, the Range Rover (beautiful to look at) has doors that are so cheap they fell like you can tear them off the car and the vehicle is way over priced, the Denali is truely ugly, and the number one competior the Cadillac...does not have independent suspension in the rear, has a much less refined body style, no power 3rd row seat (its engine is bigger, but its mpg is worse...and the Expeditions/Navs already have more power than you can use...even when towing a load).

    Thank you Ford for the upgrades on both your Expedition and Navigator's for 2007. I can't wait for January 2007.

    PS: Ford...if you are reading...A 10" LCD for the DVD would be nice, and the addition of 2 additional wireless headsets (total of 4) would be nice.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Interesting that you make these comments as if you have directly compared the 2007 Navigator to the 2007 Escalade. I suspect you have driven neither one of the 2007s yet.

    The 2007 Nav will be an improvement in several ways. However, when compared to the Slade, it may not make the cut for many people. Nice that you like it and that it is available and you will buy it. Lincoln needs buyers as well who go for emotion and bling and all kind of other irrational purchase reasons. After all, no one "needs" a Navigator. The new Nav with the 1998 body isn't going to win this King of the Hill competition, no matter how good the IRS is.
  • ljcaljca Posts: 2
    I have driven the 2006 Escalade and Navigator. I don't think anyone that compares them honestly can argue that the Cadillac provides a comparable ride. Indeed, in the front seet, they similar...but for the passengers, and especially in the 3rd row, the ride in the Escalade is terrible. I know that my kids are reasonable insensitive to such things, but I make a point of riding in all three rows when test driving, and I have co-workers (both sedan and escalade fans) that have commented that even my Expedition is a "huge" ride improvement in the back seats over their Escalade. While both Cadillac and Ford are planning on minor suspension improvements, this gap is a result of the independent suspension. Further, the lack of the independent suspension results in very limited leg room in the Cadillac.

    I have not OCD desire to buy a Navigator. I will, indeed, do a final comparison (with Cadillac and others) in Jan of next year. I'm confident that I will find the Navigator to be a better ride and prefer its other features (both mech. and comfort).

    Regardless of my final decision, I can say with complete confidence that I can't imagine that anyone would be ultimately unhappy with either purchase. Both Cadillac and Ford make a "nice" SUV.

    I'd like to think that people will be making their decision based on honest feature and personal evaluative comparisons and not as to whether or not the lattest "rapper" or movie star drives the vehicle. Or base a 60k purchase on whether or not they like they subjectively like the shape of a tail light or the placement of 6inches of chrome. There is nothing irrational about my purchase comparison parameters. In fact, my last posting is making a point that a good number of previous posting are emotional and seem to be coming from people that do not currently own a Ford SUV. I'm sorryt that you feel the need to try and personalize an attack. You are free to base your purchase on the looks of a vehicle, rather than the real value or usability. Such a choice is yours.

    This forum, however, is about the 2007 Navigator. My comments were in regard to whether or not Ford was listening. I was hoping to provide my personal experience and perhaps toss in a bit of my personal excitement that the Navigator (style and features) may be a winner for me. And in my humble opinion, Ford was listening, and appears to have addressed several issues that were important to me.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    There is nothing irrational about my purchase comparison parameters. I don't think anyone was saying that there is anything irrational about your approach. Certainly not me. And in any event, there's no need to take it personally. ;)

    But I was suggesting that a lot of people purchase Escalades and the like based on less than rational reasons, and right now the Escalade seems to have the more winning combination in that regard. Lincoln needs to grow its sales, so attention to the details you like--along with more updated styling--would be even better. In the time the Escalade has been around (less time than the Nav), GM has completely changed its body (including the entire greenhouse area) and interior three times. The 2007 interior is a smashing improvement.

    Meanwhile, Lincoln has beefed up the frame twice, added IRS, a 6 speed transmission and other very substantial changes hidden under the bushel of the 1998 body shell (albeit with new interior, front clip and tailgate). It is a good luxury SUV and will meet your needs nicely. But it is no wonder that the 2007 Slade looks fresher and more comtemporary, because it is. And lots of vehicles for better or for worse win the sales wars on looks alone.
  • But I was suggesting that a lot of people purchase Escalades and the like based on less than rational reasons...

    Now I think that is the best description of why people buy luxo vehicles anyway, and pay a premium for all of those gimmickry add-ons they'll probably never use, like manumatics ;) , and don't really need. At these price points and purchasing decisions, it's all about emotion.

    Let's face it, most people just need to get from Point A to Point B. A Chevy Tahoe or Ford Explorer will do just as well as a Cadillac, Hummer, or Lincoln.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Posts: 698
    "But I was suggesting that a lot of people purchase Escalades and the like based on less than rational reasons... "

    displacedtexan- I completely agree with your assessment. "Luxury" is not rational- it's emotional.
    It's about how it makes you feel, not what it does.
    My Timex keeps better time than my Rolex (which I never adequately shake so it's always an hour behind), but which one is my 'preferred" watch?

    My Expedition does everything a Navigator does for a lot less money but guess which one we'll likely be buying?
    That's right, the fancy one.
  • My 2006 Navigator is my third Navigator which followed a first year expo. I have about 5,000 miles so far and have had zero problems. That is a major improvement over past vehicles.
  • frankly this makes me ashamed to be american . this has to be the worst design ford has every come up with. i hope this poor dog just bombs and they end up doing an all new navi. :lemon: :lemon: :lemon:
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    If this bombs, it may mean no more Navis.

    It is definitely a polarizing grill, but much of the rest of it has the same appearance it has always had. The grill will get it noticed, and for all the people who will hate it, there will be others attracted to the flash. It doesn't have gas mileage or extra power going for it, so maybe this strange design will help it stay in the marketplace until Lincoln can re-think a more innovative replacement.
  • It does have the folding 3dr row and IRS, but I think that's trumped by the Escalades 100hp advantage and better MPG.
    I hope they price the Navigator $10-15k under the Escalade, otherwise it's on a suicide mission.

    (PS, I kind of like the grille!)
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Scooter comes out of the closet...
  • ...and I admit that freely...
  • Did anyone see the big Luxury SUV comparison in the October Car and Driver?
    The Navigator came in a very distant 5th out of 5.
    Ouch.
  • Not even the grate, er, grille, could hide the lack of substantial updates.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Either they have a crash program in place already to save the first luxury SUV...or it is toast.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Curiously, there was nary a mention of the grill by Car and Driver. They had apoplexy over the godawful interior, but simply found the exterior little short of boring. And it was interesting seeing the Gator among the group of five. It did seem to look nondescript--less flashy than the others
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    So I was able to skim this comparo at the supermarket yesterday.

    They rated the Nav last amoung Escalade (4th) Infiniti (3rd) Audi (2nd) Mercedes (1st)

    These also go roughly in the order of how much they cost. Merc over 60K, Audi close 2nd when optioned, Infinit a relative bargain, Esc overpriced.

    THey said "Fun to drive the Navigator? - Fughettaboutit." Well, none of these things is a sports car. Does anyone really buy an Escalade looking for a fun to drive vehicle? But I think they may have overlooked the Nav's advantage of IRS and it's positive effect on ride and the 3rd seat.

    OK, enuf defending it. I was really defending my 2004 Nav, which probably would have garnered more points that the 07 since the 2004 has a beautiful, modern electroluminescent instrument panel with satin aluminum accents and mahogany wood, along with the door covering the radio and/or Nav system. It all works beautifully well together and looks expensive. The 2007 OTOH has guages from a 1970s vintage Ford Granada (C&D said 1958-style guages - that went too far IMHO), blonde wood with black trim that just looks CHEAP in comparison to the 2004 interior. ANd the dash doesn't look expensive with a good fit - it looks cheap and thrown together. And where are the buttons for the information system? Or did they take that out? I'll bet they saved $100s of dollars on this new instrument panel - and it shows. I really hadn't seen many pix of the IP before - Lincoln is certainly not showing it on their web site. I just hadn't realized how truly UGLY it is. It's horribly bad. From 1st place to last - and Ford brags about the money they're spending on interior design???

    Lastly, they took off the big chrome piece above the ugly new grille which improved the looks a bit such that I would now give the front redesign a grade of 'F' rather than 'F-'. Course there's a 6inch tall piece of chrome running the length of the doors that looks ridiculous. I like ONLY the new rear treatment. Judging from some of the designers I met at PAG HQs a few years ago, I'm not surprised they wanted to make the rear end as inviting as possible.

    I predict the new Navigator will be a flop. Deservedly so I might add.

    I hate to do it but finances dictate I must soon put my 2004 up for sale unless a briefcase full of $100s falls into my lap. It is a beautiful ride. I think I'll wait one more month to list it because by then:
    - gas prices will have dropped to $2.50/gal
    - people will start thinking about ski season and a nice big 4X4 to get them there.
    and most important
    - the 2007 Navigator will be out and when folks see it, the value of a clean low-mileage 2004 should skyrocket!
  • "The 2007 OTOH has guages from a 1970s vintage Ford Granada"

    That is too funny!-- As I've said before, I kind of like the new grille.
    I showed the C&D article to my wife--- She said..."They look like the gauges in my old car."

    What did she have when we met?...A 1979 Granada!
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    HEEHEE. I remember cause my Dad had one back then.

    THIS kind of 'retro' we can all do without.
  • I'm pretty sure I saw a new Navi today (didn't know they were in the showrooms) blasting passed me on the interstate. It looked like it still had the chrome top on the grill, the part that looks like a bug catcher. I thought they got rid of that part, to tone things down some.
This discussion has been closed.