Should LEXUS Price its Vehicles Head-to-Head with Germans

ron_m

I would agree that for the moment that this lack of a performance car hasn't really hurt them much, but I would speculate as I did above that the company will need a good image car or two as the quality gap shrinks and no longer helps to differentiate Toyota from many other makers. (Despite talk of a declining gap, the gap is still large enough to move enough buyers into the Toyota camp.)

You're exactly right socala4. I agree with everything you stated above. Speaking of a "performance car" from Toyota, have you checked out some of the prices people are getting for used turbo Supras these days???!!! Depending on the condition of the car, they sometimes bring a small fortune.

Ron M.

stevekilburn

I think in 3-4 years when Camry has sufficient NASCAR exposure, they will try to fit in a V8 with probably 300-330 HP to compete with Chevy.

Thats just my guess.

merc1

Do you really think a guys who buys a S8 or S65 can't afford a "second sports car" if he wanted one? That doesn't make sense at those prices. People like that almost always have "several" cars.

The discounts on the outgoing S-Class are expected with a new model now on sale.

M

stevekilburn

These are just adverts. I dont think lexus discounts the vehicles so heavily. The average discounts are less than 500$. You should check out edmunds itself.

merc1

That will never happen. Toyota would never engineer a V8 for a Camry. If anything Toyota will either give Lexus that sports car that made the auto show rounds last year, or they'll revive the Supra to be a 350Z killer.

M

stevekilburn

This carsdirect thing is an exception. Lexus does not offer more than 500$ discounts. You can read some past edmunds press releases on incentives.

http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/press/101757/article.html

stevekilburn

You may be right, who knows? TIme will tell

stevekilburn

"Never", Do you work on Decision making at Toyota? This is not rhetoric, I am asking seriously?

stevekilburn

Thats right on the money. Besides, Only extreme maniacs drive like they are doing slaloms on the freeway.

I really worry his wife will eat him with barbeque sauce if you even think about driving like that.

Ironically BMWs record in high ticket racing is very poor.
Look at Le Mans. In 60 years they have won just one race.

This does not speak much of BMW.

stevekilburn

Lexus may be second to BMW in driving experience. But Lexus does not claim that its the ultimate driving machine.

BMW for its "Ultimate so and so" has won le mans just once. It has won daytona 24 just once. and it has never won Formula 1 on its own. Not much of a ultimate driving experience IMO.

In contrast Porsche has won 16 and 20 times in Le Mans and Daytona respectively.

stevekilburn

Is that because non-caucasian people dont have confidence in their own brands that they have to clamor for german brands? Or do they think MB and BMW are superior? If they think MB and BMW are superior in "ALL RESPECTS" then should we feel sorry for the asian people?
I do not understand your post.

scooter14

Check the prices paid forums for most Lexus. I recently got $6,500 off MSRP for GX. You can get similar discounts for other Lexus models. MB is being fairly aggressive now also and Porsche is discounting the Cayenne fairly well. The Edmunds prices paid number is not always correct and in some cases way off. Those that do their homework for any of these cars can do fairly well. I am sure Lexus and all the others have sold a lot of cars with minimal discounts to those who have not done their homework. The people posting on these boards have typically done their homework.

dmclone

Maybe you should check your math. By the time you add all the options the average BMW is a LOT more $$$. Compare a loaded 7 series to a loaded LS. Compare a loaded GS to a loaded 5 series.

black_tulip

If I want 95 % of the driving experience of a Lexus, I can buy a Toyota Avalon at a much reduced price.

Once again, you seem to be stuck at "driving experience" being the only factor in purchasing decisions. Lexus offers an exclusivity, dealer experience, customer service that Toyota does not match.

sigt1

will be freakin nuts... wow

toyota will destroy all competition yet again as it always does

luxury, sport, truck, standard

no stopping toyota...

merc1

No, I don't. I'll re-word that, I don't ever seem them putting a V8 in a Camry.

BMW being the ultimate driving machine isn't so because they don't have the best racing record? Ok. I think you've missed a big part of why BMW and any other car company goes racing. You don't have to outright win every race to gain the techincal experience from racing. The new V10 in the M6 and M5 are stunning engines partly because of this experience, regardless of whether or not they won. Why do you think Toyota is in F1? To gain whatever experience/know how that they can and apply it to a production vehicle in some way.

M

socala4

BMW being the ultimate driving machine isn't so because they don't have the best racing record? Ok. I think you've missed a big part of why BMW and any other car company goes racing. You don't have to outright win every race to gain the techincal experience from racing. The new V10 in the M6 and M5 are stunning engines partly because of this experience, regardless of whether or not they won. Why do you think Toyota is in F1? To gain whatever experience/know how that they can and apply it to a production vehicle in some way.

Exactly. And to add to that, what wins races (a lot of which is based upon the quality of the driving team, anyway) is not necessarily going to make a car a good daily driver.

Enthusiasts like BMW's because they offer a great balance of performance and handling packaged in what is generally a fairly practical, attractive and enjoyable car (price-independent, of course). Being the absolutely fastest thing on the track does not necessarily mean that the production car is going to be particularly desirable to drive or own.

ths1

Just to add my 2 cents to drfil and rayng's postings as to pricing and discounts between German (BMW and MB) and Lexus. I just purchased a GX 470 after doing a significant amount of work comparing the X5 (with the 6 cylinder), the ML 350 and the LX 470. I thought all 3 fit my needs very well and it came down to pricing. What I found, after about 2 months worth of shopping in the Chicago, Milwaukee and Madison areas, the best I could do was 3% off of list pricing on the BMW and ML-350. I was able to purchase the Lexus with a list price of just over $51M for $44,500 on a cash deal.(including all dealer costs. Not including tax, title and license fees.) I ended up buying the vehicle from a dealer who owned franchises for all three makes. Little wiggle room on the German cars for what ever reason. BMW had a 2.9% financing arrangement going on which might have been some reason for the lack of willingness. I also understand that Lexus might have had some cash back $$s to the dealer. Didn't mean to barge in on your conversation.

john500

Once again, you seem to be stuck at "driving experience" being the only factor in purchasing decisions. Lexus offers an exclusivity, dealer experience, customer service that Toyota does not match.

Let me see if I understand this correctly. You purchase automobiles for reasons OTHER than the driving experience? OK, dude. No hope here.

black_tulip

Let me see if I understand this correctly. You purchase automobiles for reasons OTHER than the driving experience? OK, dude. No hope here.

First, we are not talking about me, but the car buying population in general.

Second, "driving experience" is NOT THE ONLY FACTOR in those decisions made by the masses.

I have that is clear.

rockylee

I'd buy or should I say would like to own a Lexus LS 460 or LS 600 over anything made in Europe. This car is truely "inferior" !!!!!
:surprise: Oops did I just say that ? :surprise:

Rocky