Toyota Tundra Diesel Engine?

egbaker

Having owned a few diesel cars, and presently the
T100, I have queeried Toyota's corporate web site
and received replies that Toyota has no plans for a
diesel engine option in their truck line.
This seems like a possible defect in their
thinking.
I suspect that "Corporate Toy" would be able to
produce a very quiet, thrifty and bulletproof
diesel with little effort(maybe one already on the
shelf).
A medium duty unit that has similar HP to the V6
and torque of the V8 plants would go far in
attracting my attention.
This Topic is an attempt to garner readers
opinions(and experiences) concerning a diesel
engine option.
Please submit pros and cons or opinions and
perhaps Toyota will listen. Thanks.

volfy

I most certainly agree with you. A diesel worthy of Toyota's reputation will be an extremely attractive option for the Tundra line. It's ironic that after all the hooplah about the Toyota full-size truck finally getting the V8 the market supposedly so desperately wanted, a fuel-efficient diesel power plant may be something truck manufacturers can't do without in a few short years. Especially if fuel prices keep rising toward the US$2 mark.

In any case, does Toyota even make a small diesel currently?

z71bill

share the diesel that Isuzu is developing for GM. Isuzu has a reputation for building good diesel engines. I think GM is planning on selling the 4.8L to Honda for use in a truck project they are working on. So this would not be that strange. Toyota would need to develop / buy a transmission that would handle the added torque of the diesel - I do not think the tranny from the T-100 that is used in the Tundra could handle the extra power. It would also add about $3,000 to the MSRP -

Rocles

GM wouldn't sell the diesel to a model that directly competed with it's models. The Honda is going to be a suv; not a truck.

Has Toy ever made a diesel? I'm curious on what their history is.

gporter

Around 1985, a diesel engine was an option for the Camry, I don't know if they ever put it in their truck. I believe the engines were both 2.0 liter.
Also, they have been talking about investing heavily in a truck manufacturer in Japan, Hino I believe is the company.

mictro

What is the purpose of having two topics (#1727 & #1730) to discuss the same issue? I take it you did not like the first reponse in #1727 and had to try again for someone to agree with you?

Let's save the diesels for a real truck.

bonnie_rick

#0 of 3: Opening shot (egbaker) Thu 23 Mar '00 (05:16 AM)

Having owned several diesel cars in my history I
have a interest in furthering diesel availability and am interested in garnering readers opinions concerning Toyota offering a diesel engine option
the Tundra.

I believe a good mid size(medium duty diesel) of
the 6 or 8 cyl variety capable of HP near to the
V6 and Torque similar to the V8 would be a good option.

I would also like to hear of problems and positives concerning Big 3 units. I suspect that if Toyota would spend a little effort they could produce a very quiet, reliable, and thrifty engine.
Whats the vote?

#1 of 3: The vote is (quadrunner500) Thu 23 Mar '00 (08:17 AM)

Why? More towing and payload...Tundra is maxed
out, probably a bit over rated as it is. Better
fuel economy? Noble cause, but you only have to
look at the Volkswagen small pickup truck experience to understand how good ideas can flop in the marketplace.

I agree Toyota could build one, but American
market will not accept it. Better idea for Europe, where they are accustomed to small diesels in small cars and trucks.

Besides, in US at least, a diesel pickup has more
to do with image and perception, for most who want a big rig sound and feel, and a really heavy duty
capacity for the other few who really need it.

#2 of 3: Quad reply (egbaker) Fri 24 Mar '00 (07:42 AM)

Your input is well taken. However, there is an
obvious demand for diesels in larger trucks.

I was approaching this for the fuel economy and
life as much as the power. In fact I feel that the truck doesn't need a HD diesel but one that will provide similar torque capabilities to the V8 and yet get about 30 to 40 % better fuel mileage.

I for one wouldn't mind 600 miles on a tankful,
the likely hood of getting 300 to 400,000 miles on the engine. For folks that rack up a ton of miles, this truck and its good ride may be attractive as a diesel.

I believe Toyota did offer a diesel in one of
their older small trucks. I suspect because it was quite small there wasn't sufficient interest. Toyota has already informed me there are no plans
for a diesel truck but I was hoping to raise enough responses to give them something to chew on.

#3 of 3: egbaker (mictro) Fri 24 Mar '00 (08:19 AM)

Your statement, "there is an obvious demand for
diesels in larger trucks" is all that needs to be
said. The Tundra is not a 'larger' truck!

Bonnie Rick
Town Hall Community Manager, Edmunds.com

volfy

Well now, let's not quibble this into the old Tundra-is-no-full-size debate. All we are talking about here is where folks who are potential Tundra buyers would like a diesel option. OR</> whether or not having a diesel option would bring in more buyers for the Tundra line.

I've always wanted to move into a full-size truck, mostly just so that I can lay 4x8 sheet goods flat on the bed floor and such. Again and again I'm put off by the dismal gas mileage of even the V6 5sp work trucks. As fuel prices (gasoline and diesel) inch toward the US$2 mark, I think the demand for small diesels in the 1/2-ton pickups and SUVs of all sizes will increase steadily. Ford is rumored to be releasing a 4.8L V6 "baby diesel", and I'm sure GM and Chrysler have similar plans. Toyota will be wise to reconsider its Tundra engine plans and include a diesel soon. It took Toyota until last year to come up with a V8 finally. They had better keep up this time around.

tundradude

Toyota had diesel engines in their trucks in the mid 80's as an option. I knew someone that had one.

z71bill

GM will sell Honda an engine for their SUV but not sell Toyota an engine for a truck because it will compete with them for sales. In case you don't know GM as several SUV type trucks. Tracker, Blazer, Tahoe and Suburban. What type of SUV is Honda planning on making that will not compete with one of these trucks. Your logic is not logical. GM and Toyota also share some platforms - Corolla and Prism- Don't they compete for the same customers?

gwmoore

A gas engine for an SUV is an entirely different topic than a company's best heavy duty pickup diesel. I'm sure the engine GM will let Honda use is fine, but certainly not their best. At the same time, GM will be able to tout the Duramax as the most powerful-most economical pickup engine available. Do you really think they would share that with anyone else? Get real, that's just stupid.

volfy

I must say I'm continually impressed by GM's sticking with the pushrod - and doing a bang-up job at it - even though I don't really like OHV as a category.

I read that the latest Duramax diesel V8 uses 4 valves per cylinder - something up till now I though was impractical on a pushrod motor. Hats off to GM for making the best of their expertise in OHV motors. I hope they follow Ford's lead and make a "baby" version of that diesel motor, say chop off a couple of cylinders and make it a 4.6L V6.

z71bill

The world has/is changing. Companies that compete in the market also work together behind the scenes. I don't really want to make a long post explaining why this is, you would most likely not understand it anyway. Just open up your eyes a little bit (take your head out of your [non-permissible content removed] first it will help give you better vision).

Bottom line is - if a company can make $$ selling to a competitor they will. It is somewhat complicated. GM will sell to / share with Honda, Toyota, Suzuki and Isuzu. But would most likely never share with Ford. I will let you figure this one out on your own.

Rocles

Z71bill,

What's up with the attitude towards gwmoore? We understand how companies interchange products and ideas with each other but surely GM won't give their vaunted Duramax to Honda, no matter the profit.
The Honda deal is a proposed one at best with the future suv on paper-not production. It's still speculation on whether it would directly compete or not.
Second, GM has needed a good diesel for years to pick up lost sales to Ford and Dodge over the years in that category. Why would they then sell it for another company's truck project? That wouldn't make sense or dollars.
There are items that are swapped between partners but rarely is it a major componet like an engine, unless one is a direct shareholder of the other.
Your opinions matter here but try to soften the tone a bit. Otherwise....I'll sick Tim on ya!

tundrasaursrex

I may not like what you post about my truck but I can ignore it. I cannot ignore a racist posting. I was born in America and served (and continue to serve) honorably in the US Air Force. I am a combat decorated veteran from the gulf war. I am saddened by the racism and cannot let it go unnoticed. Trucksrme (formerly rubluetoo) is a racist and until he is removed from this site I will no longer use tis site. I hope others will join me. I will be at the tundrasolutions site.

jamesu

I would buy a diesel Tundra today if they made it. Toyota had a diesel in their Landcruiser (fj60 and fj100) Never imported to USA.

Rocles

tundrasaurusrex,

Where was that from? What did Rube say?

tundrasaursrex

Post # 12 in this string was deleted by the moderator...He used a couple enthnic racial slurs refering to people of asian descent. Very ignorant of him, and unfortunately typical given his history on this bulletin board. He gives southern people a bad name!

gwmoore

Well, I put my head in and pulled my head out of you-know-where, I can see just fine, nothing's changed, and I have never seen an auto manufacturer let their BEST product be used to compete with their own product. I don't see it happening now. The Duramax is probably the leading symbol of advancement at GM, you can bet they will hold it tightly.

By the way, sorry if I offended you, I wasn't saying you were stupid. I was saying it would be stupid for a company to share its BEST product. I know GM has done plenty of stupid things over the years, but this goes way over the line as TOO STUPID to do. Most of us are here to discuss/debate ideas, not personally attack each other. I know some bored souls come here to feel big by personally bashing others. But you can go back through the forums and posts and see that I never personally attack people; oh sure there's probably some kiddin' around. In fact several times I've tried to get people to relax and talk about the topics because people too often act like you did, misunderstanding what people say and go off.

Thanks Roc.

5spd

What is the best bed size for a pickup used as a commuter Monday to Friday, and to haul construction materials and rental power tools from home depot to my house for weekend projects ?

It seems to me that the bed for some small pickups are realy small, how can one haul 4x8 plywoods on them ? What are about full size pickup trucks, (eg. silverdo, f-150), how many choice of bed sizes are available and which one will best suit my needs ?

z71bill

I will try to control my smart [non-permissible content removed] comments. I think the chance of Toyota putting a full size diesel in the Tundra is about 1 in a million. I think diesels are less that 10 % of the unit sales in Fords light truck line - if that stays the same with the Tundra it would only be 10,000 trucks per year. No way they can afford to build that small number.

I thought the Duramax was developed for GM by Isuzu.

egbaker

If you're at all like me, you need to carry 4x8's only several times a year. More frequently, for me, its equipment, trash, fertilizer bags, etc.
Keep that in mind and don't get a huge bed.
You could end up with a behemouth that's impossible to negotiate in traffic with and poor gas mileage, all for a few trips with 4x8's.

My V6 T100 has approx 6.5 ft of length. For the few times I carry 4x8's I leave the tailgate down and tie them off.
A nice feature is that the bed is wide enough to lay the sheets flat. However, I just built a small removable platform for an older smaller truck.

I also put on a Class III hitch for those times I must haul a big load.

Keep in mind also that fuel prices are eventually going to go up.

Good luck, Gene

Rocles

A good size is any shortbed (6.5) on any full-size truck. This way you can get an extended cab and stuff that as well.

gwmoore

Since GM basically owns Isuzu, the Duramax is really a joint venture, but GM was smart enough to let the Isuzu engineers design the diesel since their diesels have an excellent reputation, and GM has never made a decent personal use diesel.

gwmoore

Best reason for the standard "homeowner" to get a long bed is if they plan to use a camper on the truck. Otherwise, the short bed is adequate for 90+% of other uses. Another consideration, the long bed is inferior for off-road use (harder to make tight turns, more potential of getting high centered). On the other hand, long beds generally have a smoother ride. If you live and work in a place like me, however, there is very little drawback for having a long bed. Parking no problem home or at work. We have another car to take to the big city. The times I go to places where serious off-roading is a consideration, I tow my ATVs. If you aren't worried about parking or serious off-roading, why not have that extra space? Oh, the difference in mileage is negligeable between long and short beds.

gwmoore

Oh yeah, for typical "homeowner", you can rent a cargo trailer from U-Haul, and I think Home Depot for those rare occasions a short bed is inadequate.

fracisco

Toyota has a long history of building reliable diesel engines. Take a look at their Australian website (http://www.toyota.com.au) or South African website (http://www.toyota.co.za/). They offer everything from a 2.4 liter diesel to a 4.2 liter turbo-diesel engine, and they are offered in all of their truck platforms. If they can hack it out in the bush and outback, they've got to be solid motors (the old inline 6 in the FJ80 Landcruiser is a solid and reliable if not overpowered motor). The motors are not the Cummins or Detroit diesel monster torque motors that the Big-3's full-size trucks carry.

Will these motors show up in North America Toyota trucks? I doubt it.

sclivingston

VW has plans for a pickup truck (granted it is ugly) in either 2001 or 2002. Get this - it will have a V-10 diesel with 300 hp and 550 lbs of torque! Unreal.

Rocles

I remember the weenie trucks that VW put out in the early eighties. Thank God it's only a memory....;)

volfy

Being somewhat of an ex-VW fanatic, I've being very disappointed with VW lately. The TDI V10 is cool, but way overkill for what the AAC is. The V10 version will probably be pushing US$45k when it comes here. I doubt the smaller engined models will be priced below $30k. Nice to know they can make expensive luxo-trucks, but how about something for the common man?

The Toyota diesels I saw in the links above look great, but I seriously doubt they will pass Federal emmision standards. I would love to have a Tundra equipped with that 4.2L I6 though.

rufarci

it would be great if Toyota put a diesel in their trucks. as has been noted, they have been producing diesels for their trucks overseas for many years. the fuel savings would be great, as well as the low end torque

I run a Ford F250, 460 (gas) engine, 5spd, and I only get 12-14 mph on the highway. A friend has a mid 80's suburban auto which still gets 22-23 mph. I have met Cummins 4x4 owners who get 26 mph! Another friend has a mid 80's chevy truck diesel with over 300,000 miles.

Rocles

That Chevy diesel must be the record-breaker for that motor. 26 from a Cummins? 22 from a Suburban? Which motor?

Incredible indeed......

rrichf

z71bill,
Actually Ford expected that 60% of their Super Duty line would be sold with diesel power. This was about this time of the year in '98. I don't know what the actual statistics are today. (Usually statistics make the marketing plans go up in smoke!)

If Toyota were to put a 4.2 turbo diesel in the Tundra it would surely capture my attention!

Rich

Rocles

It was claimed in Motor Trend that half over the sales of the 3/4 and one tonners is with a diesel.

egbaker

The Australian unit has a 4.16 L in line 6 with 128 hp and 210 ft# of torque. I suspect that this engine would be a little small for the US.
I suggest that an engine in the order of about 250 to 300 ft# and 150-175 HP might be more attractive. I believe that about 5 to 6 liters would do it.
I intend to start a campaign to inform Toyota that there are a few of us that would like the option.
Probably a slim chance with the those fat corportate leaders at Toyota but worth the effort.

meredith

The PICKUPS Conference has gotten WAY too big....

it is unwieldy to manage, and difficult to use for "newbies." There is entirely TOO much topic
duplication, so I will be doing some SERIOUS topic consolidation in the next few weeks, getting us down to not more than 2-3 topics per vehicle type, and ultimately down to 200 topics or less.

THIS weeks consolidation candidates are:
Tundra's, Tacoma's and Rangers.

In that vein, please consolidate this Tundra topic to Welcome Toyota Tundra - V and continue these discussions there.

Thanks!

Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host