...It's not normal, and the dealer is telling you correctly. High speed vibration is generally a sign of warped brake rotors, and they need resurfacing.
...every so often, we get lo-speed vibration. The use of feather-lite braking for a spell seems to restore law and order to the braking department. Go figure.
Here's hoping the 53k 'no brake probs' post (either here or 'driveaccord' works for me............
I've noticed slight vibration with my 04 Accord. As the other posting mentioned, mine also seems to come and go.
The brakes on the current generation Accord seem to be very touchy overall. I suspect anything altering the surface of the rotors will be noticed during braking. I'm wondering if something as simple as a light coating of rust forming on the rotors is enough to make them vibrate. If the car sits overnight and it's humid outside, or it rains, the rotors will get a light coating of rust. It may just form on areas directly exposed to rain bouncing off the rims, and probably doesn't form under the pads. The uneven coating could give you the vibration feeling. All of this should go away after a few good uses, but may be annoying till then.
The uneven coating could give you the vibration feeling. All of this should go away after a few good uses, but may be annoying till then.
I know what you feel, but my little "rust buildup" is usually gone after two or three applications of brakes in my neighborhood.
Every time I've felt the high-speed vibration above 50 MPH (it usually quits shaking after I've slowed below 50 or so), a rotor resurface has been in order (2 different times, same thing that you described happened with me, and was fixed with a rotor resurface).
This MAY not be the case with you, but I'd have to agree with the service tech just based on what you told me.
The part that I don't like about having the rotors turned is they usually cut more off then they need to just to true them up. Later, when you have new brakes installed down the road, you probably will be replacing the rotors (your cost) because there isn't enough material left to have them turned at that time.
I wouldn't have a problem if they would replace the rotors and not just cut them.
Used to be (up to a decade or so ago, anyway) that brake rotors were machined from a thicker chunk of cast iron. The forethought to this decision was that they'd resist warping somewhat better and have enough meat that they could be "turned" a couple of times during their life. Whether for cost cutting, weight saving, or both, the thinner brake rotors used now rarely survive more than one encounter with the truing lathe and still remain viable for reliable service.
My 2005 LX had rear drums and rotors replaced, resurfaced, replaced again and resurfaced one last time between 18k miles and 35k. A complaint registered with Honda led to an assesment by the regional Honda rep. They replaced the steel wheels with alloy wheels saying problems with steel wheels dissipating heat. No other cause was ever found. They been OK for the past 6k miles (knock on wood).
Yeah, my guess is that they went to a lighter alloy to lower the 'unsprung weight' for better strut performance. Whatever they're using, it's not very durable. My rotors were cut @ 19K, bad again by 25K, and were beyond repair by 30K. Just footed the bill for new ones, been flawless ever since (5K miles, knock wood)
I'd venture if you decide to try this, it would be advisable to thoroughly clean and dry the caliper castings' exposed surfaces and then mask off nearby areas to avoid overspray. Use of a high temperature polyurathane or epoxy paint would probably assure the best long-term results. I've also noticed some appearance-conscious owners paint their rotors' exposed surfaces that aren't subject to pad contact to avoid rust (harmless) in those areas, too. The final touch for obsessive-compulsives would be replacing the rubber brake line hoses with braided stainless steel lines for a more authentic "tuner" appearance if the car is to be displayed at enthusiast meets. One tuner wanna-be I talked to even bragged he made his own "Brembo" stencil to achieve a counterfeit performance product appearance. (Never ocurred to me at the time to check whether he wore a Rolex wrist watch, too...) His artword was, indeed, impressive - almost as much as his lack of personal ethics. I'm sure the next owner will appreciate that larceny to no end when he/she attempts to locate replacement brake pads for a non-existant "Brembo" caliper.
I wasn't going to attempt this myself. Instead, I was going to see if a local body shop would do it for me for a reasonable price as fill-in project when they're not busy, and only the calipers.
I'm not interested in braided brake lines and all that other fancy stuff. In the end, it may not be worth it. I was just impressed with how good painted calipers made a car look.
I recently purchased a used Accord, and then had it serviced by the local dealer. The service included new rear brakes and rotors.
When I drive the car, it seems that you have to press the brake pedal for quite an excursion as the car slows, and then quiet hard to get it to stop completely. Is this normal for a 2001 Accord?
I am so used to driving a Nissan Pathfinder, that it is difficult for me to judge.
Just had my rear brake rotor resurfaced on my 2006 Accord 4-cyclinder. The rear brake developed some wierd noises when braking at low speed (10-25 mph).
In my 1st visit to the Honda dealer, they had the mechanic adjusted the rear brake but it did NOT fix the problem. So I had to go back a 2nd time. They had the rear brake rotor resurfaced under warranty.
I'm concerned about this problem because other people here also experienced similar issues.
What're remedies from Honda if it were going to happen again(if it will, I hope it happens before 36,000 miles)? Can I request Honda to replace the rotor instead of resurfacing it again?
I'm not a hard driver and rarely brake hard. Given the quality of Honda, I would expect to get at least 45-50K on a set of brakes - both front and rear.
FYI, I got 50k on the original sets of brakes on my 96 Jetta.
It's amazing how many different types of brake problems there are with Accords. I had an '87 with no problems of any kind. I now own a 2002 Accord, bought new. At about 40k the rear brake pads needed replacing. At approx. 55k the fronts were replaced. The pedal has always felt a little "soft". I have never detected any drag on the rear wheels. The mechanic who replaced the pads was more surprised than I was that the rears went before the fronts. Ideas anyone?
I wish I had an answer for you regarding remedies. I went all up and down with Honda corporate, all they wanted to give me was 5% off an overpriced rotor swap of $950. I got the rotors changed at Mavis for less than half that, still going strong. There must be something wrong with the original ones from the factory, so I'm keeping an eye out for the eventual class-action.
Although it's unfortunate that I had to spill $400+ for new rotors in a car with 30K miles, it's still a great car - the brakes being the only issue I've had with it in 4yrs/45K.
Try American Honda again, if enough of us come forward, they'll have to do something - they should recall and pass the costs along to the OEM rotor mfr, as is typical with these kind of arrangements.
I have seen many posts about rear pads wearing before the front pads. Have you checked your mileage? The front pads should wear quicker. Either the front brakes are not doing the job, and the rear has to make up for it. Or the rear brakes are dragging. I have read some references to emergency brakes not fully releasing (which would also hurt gas mileage). My 03 has 42,000 miles, and the pads look good, at this point, so I have no personal knowledge.
I believe Honda uses electronic brake distribution (EBD) with its ABS system. What EBD does is during hard braking distribute the forces evenly to avoid the "nose dive" affect and stop your car quicker. This makes braking feel more secure but it also uses the rear brakes more so the rear brakes go faster. I have this on my Nissan Quest minivan and had problems with the rear brakes.
Also i don't think the manufacturers have adjusted the rear rotor size (diameter and thickness) to account for this. On my minivan, the rear rotors were smaller then the front.
What EBD does is during hard braking distribute the forces evenly to avoid the "nose dive" affect and stop your car quicker.
I don't agree. The front brakes should always use more force than the rear. The front of the car has more weight, especially during braking (weight shifts to the front), and has a lot more stopping power. If the rear brakes used the same force as the front, If the brakes were applied evenly front/back, the ABS would be kicking in (in the rear) for normal stops. I have an 03 Accord, and my rear brake pads are not wearing fast (42,000 miles, and still look new), and I have the heavier V6 model. Rear pads wearing before the front pads is not normal. Something is wrong somewhere.
I just bought an 07 Accord SE 2 weeks ago and will be watching the brakes and rotors closely. The back rotors are not ventilated and smaller than the front rotors. My 92 Accord kept the original front pads till about 100K miles, and the rear shoes were still on it when I sold it last month at 209K miles. It was not used in heavy traffic everyday so it lasted much longer than any vehicle used in urban driving on a daily basis. I also slowed down before my stops so I wouldn't wear them out prematurely. The rotors OTOH did warp well before 100k miles and I had them turned once and about 2-3 years later they had rewarped and had to be replaced because there wasn't enough rotor to true and still be safe. The rotors of today are very thin and usually can't be turned more than once. Maybe not even once!! And these semi-metallic pads are eating up rotors big time!!! Honda has made an organic pad that works well hope they have put them on my new Accord!! TIME will reveal!!
I read the link. Unless the car is sliding sideways, or going in reverse, the majority of stopping power is in front. It will take much less braking force to lock up the rear wheels. So when the car is going forward (99% of the time), the front brakes will receive most of the braking force. If your rear brakes were to give out, you might not even notice. If your front brakes go out, you have a big problem.
If your rear brake pads are worn before the front pads, something is wrong IMO.
EBD gives the car the ability to distribute some of the braking to the rear brakes during hard braking. Not all braking but closer to 60-40 rather than 90-10. Because of this, the rear brakes work more than we are used to. Couple this with smaller rear rotors and pads, you start to have issues with the rear brakes much sooner.
I have the same situation in my 2004 Quest minivan (as well as many others). Many of us had to replace the rear rotors and pads before 35k miles. Some had warped rotors by 20k. The rear rotors were much smaller than the front and the vehicle had ABS with EBD. Subsequent model years have larger rear rotors and pads. It's a minivan and heavier so you see the issues sooner but similar situation.
My Accord with a V6, which is heavier than most Accords on the road, has 42,000 miles on it, and the rear pads still look great. VS Some people with Accords who have rear pads wearing early (under 40,000 miles), and rotors warped. Which situation sounds like there is a problem?
i have the same. at low speeds i recently hear a dull scraping, sort of shhhhhhhhhhhhh sound as i brake softly. only thing ive done is spray meguiars all wheel cleaner!
Saleem, I would jack the car up, and turn the wheels by hand, to see if the brakes are dragging. I think some of the Accords are having problems with either sticking calipers or emergency brakes not fully releasing. Thankfully, I'm not one of them.
Yes, my car supposedly had the E-brake adjusted too tightly from the factory according to the dealer, yet here I am, 10K miles into all new rotors (at 45K), and I'll need new rears again soon - fronts are fine, but rears all chewed up already. Love the car, just Dang these rotors!
My guess is if the rears get bad enough, then the fronts will need to do all the braking, and then I'll need 4 new rotors instead of 2.
An impact driver would be the best way. Tapping a big fat screw driver with a hammer while applying turning pressure may work though. Spray some liquid wrench on them and let it sit a while, then try again. Good luck.
I have a 2004 Honda Accord V6. Started hearing a light grinding noise coming from the rear tires so I took it in. Found out I need rear brakes and rotors (20% left and have to be replaced). Front brakes were 75%. Mileage is 34,400 I can't believe! I called the dealership and asked about ceramic brakes lasting longer and he "not really" Really? He said it is not unusual for ABS to wear faster in the back, ceramic or not. Something is not right!
He said it is not unusual for ABS to wear faster in the back, ceramic or not. Something is not right!
I have the 03 EXV6, and my rear pads are still in great shape at 43k miles. I would agree that something is not right. The 04 does not have EBD, so that excuse doesn't fly. You may be changing rotors soon unfortunately.
The 04 does not have EBD, so that excuse doesn't fly.
Actually, it does, at least it does in the 03, 05 literature for the EX, LX-V6, and EX-V6. The DX and LX don't have EBD. I don't have the literature for the 04, but I'm sure they would not have dropped the EBD for one year.
I know my 03 doesn't have EBD, and I don't think much changed in 04. I have the 03-05 service manual, and it says nothing about EBD for 03,4, or 5. ABS, and TCS, not EBD. What literature are you referring to?
I just looked on Honda owner's link, and it has EBD listed for my car. I still don't believe it has EBD because it says nothing about EBD in the service manual or owner's manual. If it had EBD wouldn't the techs need information on it for repairs?
I got the info out of the 03 and 05 sales brochure. Sure sounds strange that the service manuals don’t reference it. Is the EBD controlled by the ABS system?
The service manual has two sections. One for conventional brakes, and one for ABS, which includes traction control. I took a look at the owner's manual again, and it mentions shifting braking from the front to rear, but not to individual wheels, which is what EBD is supposed to do, right? I would sure like to know for sure if my car has it or not. I'm inclined to think not. Does not have ESC either, by the way. I think ESC and EBD go hand in hand, being they are both individual wheel systems.
What I was trying to get at is, my car is equipped with the same system as the 04 V6, and my rear pads are not wearing prematurely (still look relatively new at 43,000 miles). This leads me to believe something is wrong, if jinnyb's rear pads are worn out so soon (34,400 miles). I suppose if jinneyb does a lot of braking (going down steep hills and such) the brakes could wear faster, but not rear only.
The ABS system is further enhanced by Electronic Brake Distribution (EBD) which adjusts braking pressure front-to-rear, based on the weight distribution of passengers and/or cargo. Weight distribution is determined via the relative difference in rotational speed of the front and rear wheels. Greater braking pressure, and subsequently stopping power, is directed to the rear wheels when cargo loads in the rear are heavier. This contributes to a more controlled stop, and in conjunction with the front double wishbone suspension minimizes "brake dive" during hard braking.
"Weight distribution is determined via the relative difference in rotational speed of the front and rear wheels."
Based in that, incorrect tire pressure front-rear could affect how the EBD functions? I can also see that having extra weight in the trunk, or 5 passengers compared to just 1 will effect the rate at which the rear pads wear?
On my CR-V, it was making a grinding noise from the rear disk brakes.
Honda issued a TSB (service bulletin) for corosion of the caliper casting where the pad retainers sit. The corrosion puts pressure under the stainless steel pad retainers, and causes the rear brakes to stick slightly. When the brakes stick slightly, the rear rotor overheats and the surface gets damaged, causing a grinding sound/feel. The fix is to remove the pads, as well as the stainless steel pad retainers that the pads ride on, and clean the corrosion from the caliper casting, or replace it if it's really bad. To fix it right, new rotors and pads are called for.
An rotor that has overheated tends to have discoloration and/or odd look to the surface. Be sure to look at both sides.
I've done hundreds of brake jobs, and until now I never thought about cleaning off the caliper casting under the pad retainers...but now I will.
I would bet that the rear calipers on a CR-V and the accord are very similar. Note that problems with calipers sticking due to corosion are much more likely if you live in an area where road salt is used a lot.
Have a 02 Accord, at 32k had the rotors resurfaced, at 55K samething, now at 74K it is in need of same. Is this something others have experienced? This vehicle is driven both City, Freeway/Hwy type. Seem to me, it should have a longer life than 25-30K miles.
I have 4 cylinder 1999 Honda Accord sedan. I have recently noticed a knocking noise on the front driver's side when braking. Does anyone have any suggestions?
for the '02, the rotors may have warped again. ANytime you resurface (instead of replace) it makes them a little bit thinner, and so they can warp easier. If it were my car, and they needed to be done again, I would replace them with new parts.
Depending on the thickness, they may not be resurfaceable anyway.
For the '99, hard to tell. But, you probably want to get into a suspension shop to have it looked at. A knocking noise may be suspension related (loose tie rod end, something like that), and not brake related. You might just here it when the system is stressed by the brakes being applied.
I have a 2004 honda Accord V6 I am on my 4th set of rear brakes. I am wondering if there is some time of engineering that is causing this issue. Never have I had to replace the brake pads on 110,000 klm car 4 times.
You've got something wrong having to have replace rear brakes 4 times on a 2004. I don't think I've replaced 4 total sets of brakes on all my vehicles over the years with at least a million miles driven, and I don't switch out vehicles until typically 8-12 years old.
Sounds like you have something hung up where it's not releasing the rear brakes. Could also potentially be that your fronts aren't working (forcing the rears to do all of the braking), but I'd expect you would be skidding under any heavy braking need....and even then you shouldn't have gone thru 4 sets of brakes.
The rears normally do very little braking. When you are stopping the car weight is shifted to the front giving the front tires superior traction, and the weight shifts away from the rear giving those tires poor traction. As a result, the brake systems are configured that there is minimal hydraulic pressure to the rear and creates highest pressure to the fronts, so the fronts do the majority of all stopping.
You will need to get this to a competent mechanic for resolution, not a typical corner brake swap shop.
I have an 03 V6 and I just checked the pads out over the weekend at 48,000 miles, and they are worn, but will easily make it to 50,000 miles (don't know what that translates into for km). I have heard the emergency brakes can be set too tight, and not fully release the rear brakes. You should have it checked out, or you will probably need rotors soon. good luck
I am having the exact same problem with my 2006 Honda accord. I have had my Honda for less than two years and will be going into my second set of rear brakes. I already changed them back in december at 15K miles and was told that I will have to change them again at my next service. My current mileage is 25K! I've had other cars before and have never changed my brakes so much in my life. I questioned them about it and they tell me that the rear brakes wear down faster around 15K-20K. But doesn't this sound a little strange?
Just had my '05 EX-L (4 cyl/manual) in for it's 2 year, 20K service.
Brakes checked out at 10mm pad thickness front, 9mm rear 9same on both sides).
Anyone know what new pads are, and what is considered replacement level (wear bar time)?
Only brake problem I have is some groaning/grinding at low speeds when the car is cold, but I think it might just be surface rust of glazing that nees to get burned off. I rarely ever get the brakes hot enough to probably clean them off.
Comments
...every so often, we get lo-speed vibration. The use of feather-lite braking for a spell seems to restore law and order to the braking department. Go figure.
Here's hoping the 53k 'no brake probs' post (either here or 'driveaccord' works for me............
..ez..
The brakes on the current generation Accord seem to be very touchy overall. I suspect anything altering the surface of the rotors will be noticed during braking. I'm wondering if something as simple as a light coating of rust forming on the rotors is enough to make them vibrate. If the car sits overnight and it's humid outside, or it rains, the rotors will get a light coating of rust. It may just form on areas directly exposed to rain bouncing off the rims, and probably doesn't form under the pads. The uneven coating could give you the vibration feeling. All of this should go away after a few good uses, but may be annoying till then.
Mrbill
I know what you feel, but my little "rust buildup" is usually gone after two or three applications of brakes in my neighborhood.
Every time I've felt the high-speed vibration above 50 MPH (it usually quits shaking after I've slowed below 50 or so), a rotor resurface has been in order (2 different times, same thing that you described happened with me, and was fixed with a rotor resurface).
This MAY not be the case with you, but I'd have to agree with the service tech just based on what you told me.
I wouldn't have a problem if they would replace the rotors and not just cut them.
Mrbill
I'm not interested in braided brake lines and all that other fancy stuff. In the end, it may not be worth it. I was just impressed with how good painted calipers made a car look.
When I drive the car, it seems that you have to press the brake pedal for quite an excursion as the car slows, and then quiet hard to get it to stop completely. Is this normal for a 2001 Accord?
I am so used to driving a Nissan Pathfinder, that it is difficult for me to judge.
In my 1st visit to the Honda dealer, they had the mechanic adjusted the rear brake but it did NOT fix the problem. So I had to go back a 2nd time. They had the rear brake rotor resurfaced under warranty.
I'm concerned about this problem because other people here also experienced similar issues.
What're remedies from Honda if it were going to happen again(if it will, I hope it happens before 36,000 miles)? Can I request Honda to replace the rotor instead of resurfacing it again?
I'm not a hard driver and rarely brake hard. Given the quality of Honda, I would expect to get at least 45-50K on a set of brakes - both front and rear.
FYI, I got 50k on the original sets of brakes on my 96 Jetta.
I'm really disappointed at this quality issue.
Although it's unfortunate that I had to spill $400+ for new rotors in a car with 30K miles, it's still a great car - the brakes being the only issue I've had with it in 4yrs/45K.
Try American Honda again, if enough of us come forward, they'll have to do something - they should recall and pass the costs along to the OEM rotor mfr, as is typical with these kind of arrangements.
Also i don't think the manufacturers have adjusted the rear rotor size (diameter and thickness) to account for this. On my minivan, the rear rotors were smaller then the front.
Just a thought.
I don't agree. The front brakes should always use more force than the rear. The front of the car has more weight, especially during braking (weight shifts to the front), and has a lot more stopping power. If the rear brakes used the same force as the front, If the brakes were applied evenly front/back, the ABS would be kicking in (in the rear) for normal stops. I have an 03 Accord, and my rear brake pads are not wearing fast (42,000 miles, and still look new), and I have the heavier V6 model. Rear pads wearing before the front pads is not normal. Something is wrong somewhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_brakeforce_distribution
If your rear brake pads are worn before the front pads, something is wrong IMO.
I have the same situation in my 2004 Quest minivan (as well as many others). Many of us had to replace the rear rotors and pads before 35k miles. Some had warped rotors by 20k. The rear rotors were much smaller than the front and the vehicle had ABS with EBD. Subsequent model years have larger rear rotors and pads. It's a minivan and heavier so you see the issues sooner but similar situation.
My guess is if the rears get bad enough, then the fronts will need to do all the braking, and then I'll need 4 new rotors instead of 2.
He said it is not unusual for ABS to wear faster in the back, ceramic or not. Something is not right!
Also if you have a Honda with Electronic Brake Distribution, the rears do as much braking as the front.
Good Luck.
I have the 03 EXV6, and my rear pads are still in great shape at 43k miles. I would agree that something is not right. The 04 does not have EBD, so that excuse doesn't fly. You may be changing rotors soon unfortunately.
Actually, it does, at least it does in the 03, 05 literature for the EX, LX-V6, and EX-V6. The DX and LX don't have EBD. I don't have the literature for the 04, but I'm sure they would not have dropped the EBD for one year.
Mrbill
Mrbill
What I was trying to get at is, my car is equipped with the same system as the 04 V6, and my rear pads are not wearing prematurely (still look relatively new at 43,000 miles). This leads me to believe something is wrong, if jinnyb's rear pads are worn out so soon (34,400 miles). I suppose if jinneyb does a lot of braking (going down steep hills and such) the brakes could wear faster, but not rear only.
Electronic Brake Distribution
The ABS system is further enhanced by Electronic Brake Distribution (EBD) which adjusts braking pressure front-to-rear, based on the weight distribution of passengers and/or cargo. Weight distribution is determined via the relative difference in rotational speed of the front and rear wheels. Greater braking pressure, and subsequently stopping power, is directed to the rear wheels when cargo loads in the rear are heavier. This contributes to a more controlled stop, and in conjunction with the front double wishbone suspension minimizes "brake dive" during hard braking.
"Weight distribution is determined via the relative difference in rotational speed of the front and rear wheels."
Based in that, incorrect tire pressure front-rear could affect how the EBD functions? I can also see that having extra weight in the trunk, or 5 passengers compared to just 1 will effect the rate at which the rear pads wear?
Interesting...
Mrbill
Honda issued a TSB (service bulletin) for corosion of the caliper casting where the pad retainers sit. The corrosion puts pressure under the stainless steel pad retainers, and causes the rear brakes to stick slightly. When the brakes stick slightly, the rear rotor overheats and the surface gets damaged, causing a grinding sound/feel. The fix is to remove the pads, as well as the stainless steel pad retainers that the pads ride on, and clean the corrosion from the caliper casting, or replace it if it's really bad. To fix it right, new rotors and pads are called for.
An rotor that has overheated tends to have discoloration and/or odd look to the surface. Be sure to look at both sides.
I've done hundreds of brake jobs, and until now I never thought about cleaning off the caliper casting under the pad retainers...but now I will.
I would bet that the rear calipers on a CR-V and the accord are very similar. Note that problems with calipers sticking due to corosion are much more likely if you live in an area where road salt is used a lot.
Thanks Steve
Depending on the thickness, they may not be resurfaceable anyway.
For the '99, hard to tell. But, you probably want to get into a suspension shop to have it looked at. A knocking noise may be suspension related (loose tie rod end, something like that), and not brake related. You might just here it when the system is stressed by the brakes being applied.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Sounds like you have something hung up where it's not releasing the rear brakes. Could also potentially be that your fronts aren't working (forcing the rears to do all of the braking), but I'd expect you would be skidding under any heavy braking need....and even then you shouldn't have gone thru 4 sets of brakes.
The rears normally do very little braking. When you are stopping the car weight is shifted to the front giving the front tires superior traction, and the weight shifts away from the rear giving those tires poor traction. As a result, the brake systems are configured that there is minimal hydraulic pressure to the rear and creates highest pressure to the fronts, so the fronts do the majority of all stopping.
You will need to get this to a competent mechanic for resolution, not a typical corner brake swap shop.
Brakes checked out at 10mm pad thickness front, 9mm rear 9same on both sides).
Anyone know what new pads are, and what is considered replacement level (wear bar time)?
Only brake problem I have is some groaning/grinding at low speeds when the car is cold, but I think it might just be surface rust of glazing that nees to get burned off. I rarely ever get the brakes hot enough to probably clean them off.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Mrbill