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Comments
Most all-weather tires are especially poor for traction in snow or on ice. I have a 93 club cab 5.2, auto and lsd. I found going up even the slightest icy incline virtually impossible at times with my Yokahama A78 all weather tread. I got another set of rims for my Dak and put the new this year Bridgestone Dueler Blizzak snow tires on all four corners. What a difference it made, with cautious driving I could go anywhere (within reason) including a fresh 11" snowfall.
My company vehicle is a 4wd Suburban which is great in snow, ice and mud. It is even more enjoyable because the company pays for the gas and broken parts. I find that I take more chances using 4 wheel drive than I do driving my Dak. I would also guess that there are also many other 4wd users which get overconfident and forget they can't stop any better than the 2wd drivers. I too see many crunched and overturned 4wd vehicles in the ditch during our mid-west winters.
I have a new Quad on order and really could not justify spending another $3000 for the aggressive looks and the occasional use of 4wd.
Do you have any idea if the 93 Dakota factory mags (15x6)and snowtires could be used on a 00 Dak with the tire/handling package (15x8) other than probably looking strange. Best price I've found for factory takeoff 15x8 rims is $399 plus shipping.
Blizzaks or the Michelin equivalent (SureGrip??) are a big seller up here for winter, but I don't see them as a replacement for 4wd. They are not great on dry pavement and they usually require an investment in steel rims as well as the need to change wheels twice a year (not such a big deal). The benefit 4wd has is that you can engage it when needed in most applications - even in bad weather the major routes are likely to be clear - with snow tires you are really stuck with them for four months of the year.
Chains and / or studs are a better bet - but obviously only where they are allowed.
As far as your 15x6 on the Dakota - check the overall tire / wheel size, any difference will need the computer to be reprogrammed. I would also be concerned about the brakes / ABS - definitely research before you try it.
2wd has better fueld economy than 4wd - well, yes, when you are using 4wd, but in 2wd mode the difference is hardly measurable - maybe a little more drag and a little more weight. When I need 4wd I'll take its safety over fuel economy any day of the week.
Insurance lower for a 2wd - not always - there are companies in some parts of North America who seem to think that there is a lot less risk in a 4wd than a 2wd and insurance premiums reflect that.
My 4wd has the ability to drive in 2wd or 4wd modes and I like it that way - my and my family's safety comes above a few bucks for gas or a little additional maintenance - I want to be as safe as I can be, and 2wd is not as safe as 4wd in marginal conditions.
I really fail to see how a 4wd cannot be 'better' than a 2wd. It has both 4wd and 2wd options - effectively everything that a 2wd has and more - so by definition it MUST be better. That logic doesn't hold true for full time 4wd, but I have spoken out against them many times on various topics here.
Whether the trade-off of more functionality vs. more cost is worth it is where the debate starts - I am just amazed that people put their families at risk by buying 2wd when 4wd would help - even only occasionally.
that i know we're talking about trucks. i also am
not trying to be a smart [non-permissible content removed].
1. based on your last post are you saying that
people with 2wd, whether it be truck or car, are
putting their families at risk?
2. if someone buys a 2wd, whether it be truck or
car, they're going to pay higher insurance rates?
3. based on question #2 should'nt auto
manfactures offer a choice of 2wd or 4wd for the
full line of their product?
thanx,
RED
I actually said where 4wd would help - meaning if you lived in a part of the country where road conditions are bad at certain times of the year. I also think the vehicle comes into play here - FWD wouldn't give me as much concern as RWD and a fairly evenly balanced weight distribution wouldn't give me as much concern as a weight distribution that has little weight over the driving wheels.
The problem with 2wd trucks is that both of these occur - RWD with very little wieght over the driving wheels. If I could put 4wd on just one vehicle type it would be on a truck for that reason - give me a 2wd SUV before you give me a 2wd truck.
Point 2:
No, in fact generally speaking the opposite is true - but in some areas where the weather is regularly bad it is cheaper with some companies to insure a 4wd than a 2wd.
Point 3:
Well, no not really - there is limited benefit to adding 4wd to something like a Ford Taurus - it has a fairly even weight distribution, with the weight bias in favour of the driving axle, and it is FWD.
Subaru has proved that 4wd (or AWD in their case) can be marketed effectively, and as AWD / 4wd systems develop I wouldn't be surprised to see more computer controlled systems that have the capability of diverting traction to all four wheels. I don't think we will ever see a shift on the fly system in a sedan.
opposite wheel in back (ordinary 4x4 setup) spinning sure does help the weight distrobution in the big or little trucks. Butmost people will find that locking or limited slip rear differintials in a 2 wheel drive truck will get you just about anywhere you wanna go, if you know how to drive them. ive seen 4x2's posi's mud better than 4x4's.......alot of times it just depends on the driver. so the point is if you dont need 4x4 but you need that extra security, and dont wanna spent the extra money, spend the extra $200 and get the limited slip rear differential for your beloved 4x2.
- Tim
I also think it helps in a 4wd, but Tim and I have had that debate before.
You also need to realise (or realize) that mudding requires a totally different skill set to other forms of off roading.
- Tim
Incidentally - saw an article on the new heavy duty GMC / Chevy - coming this fall to a dealer near you!!!
Looks like a nice truck.
Also heard rumours that Dodge's Ram makeover is going to include a distinct styling differential between full size and heavy duty - I even hear that the heavy duty may not be that dissimilar to the Power Wagon concept.
LOL
- Tim
Ken
- Tim
Deep down I've always been a GM guy and if the Duramax is equal to it's press releases we will all be winners because the competition will have to keep up.
--Ken
best damn truck I have had yet!
(Click for bigger pic)
- Tim
Pay attention to what? Navistar is a separate company and nowhere did I ever get the impression that Ford makes the diesel. Are people that dense?
Dodge man? Ohh....now you're qualified to call the Navistar a "powerchoke"? Did they give you that great material at the Dodge dealership?
Ken
Gotta have fun!
I vowed my next truck would be 4wd even though I'll only need it a few times a year (I live in IL) it's well worth the few extra $$.
When I bought the Ranger, I said, No way, I'm not spending extra for something Ill only use once and a while, but I was wrong. Now, I'm upgrading from the ranger 4x2 to a GMC 4x4!
Good luck in your research. My vote is for the 4WD.
Truckchic
- Tim
mgdvhman: You have your beliefs and I have mine. A 4x4 is great if you go off road but only a small percentage of us ever do. For the rare occasion when 4 wheel drive is helpful it's not worth it to me. It seems like these days either people don't know how to drive when it gets slick or they just think it's cool to have a 4x4. I'm too old to be impressed by that kind of thing so I'll stay with a 4x2 with antispin and I've never been stuck or had to turn around and go home because of weather and I live in the heart of the snow belt.
You keep telling yourself you don't need one.
I'll take one......you know.....to be impressed..
- Tim
Let me tell you a story.
I know someone who had a 4x4 (hey this is Canada), but didn't think they needed 4x4 engaged because it was only raining, not snowing. They were coming down a hill which curved. In 2 wheel drive the back end started sliding and the truck ended up going into a ditch where it promptly rolled. The other side of the ditch was someone's garden and the truck landed on the family dog - killing it. Now this time it was a dog, but the family had two small children.
Would 4wd have prevented the accident, who knows, would it have given better traction - absolutely. I agree that the driver plays a large part - but why wouldn't you give yourself as much of a chance as possible?
..I understand your points about most don't need it....If I really stretched....maybe even I could suffice?....but it comes in too handy for the do it your selfer and adventurer that I am...
If i encounter a very bad situation....as I have before...and it could remotely save my life....it's worth all the extra it costs 100 times over.......to me at least
- Tim
know how to drive when it gets slick or they just
think it's cool to have a 4x4."
Heck most people cant drive period. 4x4 or whatever.
Ever see these idiots making a left turn and cross well over the dividing line and leave no room for you to turn into your lane when you are making a left?
Throw any kind of weather into the equasion and look out.
I know I got off the subject there but in general there are alot of idiots on the road.
Let's keep it kind - save the bickering and nasty stuff for the dealership negotiations!
By the way....I want to thank everyone on the forum who has helped answer ALLLLL my questions I've posted lately......I'm not a fan of shopping for new trucks, and I'm getting ready to buy one so I needed allllll the OPINIONS/ADVISE I could find!
Thanks again
Truckchick
Anyway if you're going Sierra look at the '01 C3, its all wheel drive-all 4 engaged all the time, (not meant for serious off road) sounds like what youre looking for.
I'm in IL also and with the Michelins I can go anywhere even when it snows and my braking is much better also.
Haven't seen alot of GMC's on the road nor alot talked about....Maybe everyone just goes towards the chevy...who know?
Thanks again
- Tim
good suspension will do just fine in prerunner
type offroad situations, e.g. anyone been to
death valley?
for mud, slick, rock crawling situations, 4wd
is definitely needed, most likely with at least
a good lsd or locker.
but..
been in offroad situation before where we got
stuck being high centered on a hump.. another
almost in mud.. another where the truck just slid
downhill .. all with 4wd. so imho, i agree that
driver skill is a major factor being at least 50%.
and with good skill (not me, i'll admit) some can
go in some serious off road situations in 4wd with just open diffs that normally require
lockers (albeit with all other hardware being
heavily modded so that there's a wheel that'll
always provide traction).
should just get it, even if you don't think you
may need it because you never know when you will.
(for me, it's anything that'll help out, skill or
no skill
it isn't that much more ($2000 for a super duty)
plus you'll get a higher resale value.
In Colorado, that's very different. Most everything you shop for in the way of suvs and trucks are 4x4. Autos get by fine with front wheel drive. But rwd only vehicles, work fine too but are the first to have problems if something does happen with the weather. Many, many work trucks never see off road duty, but are 4x4 nonetheless. So no one here thinks twice.
I think the particular circumstances of the area where you drive is what determines how appropriate 4x4 is. If it's not, then it probably does seem like a luxury to others.
My advise, stick to 4wd for the winters. I'm upgrading to a full size 4wd to make it easier.
in the late 60's (precluding my 4WD experience in the 50's with the military) it was rare indeed to see civilian types owning and operating a 4WD. Today, there are very many to choose from, and they are actually commonplace. The 4WD today is much more user friendly as well as socially acceptable. One of the problems that emerges from that, is that people have the idea that 4WD makes one more or less invincible. Believe me, that is not true. Prudent driving accounts more for safe driving than the mechanism of 4WD. Stopping is still an obstacle, sometimes manifested by going too fast in the first place, because one has 4WD. The limited slip differential also increases the odds in one's favor by increasing tractive effort in both 2WD as well as 4WD. As the LSD feature engages automatically, it is a "no brainer" for the general population. This option as well has plus and minus benefits that should be learned. I would not be without our 4WD vehicles (3) but it is a decision that only you can make. They are more expensive and require a bit more to maintain.
Hope this helps.
Bookitty
Woody