F250 - Gas vs. Diesel
I am considering the F250 XLT SB and would like
any info that the group might have on which engine
and RE that I should get. It will not be a work
truck, mostly city driving, with occasional road
trips. It will be leased, so I will not have to
worry too much about maintenance. My main
considerations are MPG and fuel cost, and any
problems about the gas and diesel engines
available....
any info that the group might have on which engine
and RE that I should get. It will not be a work
truck, mostly city driving, with occasional road
trips. It will be leased, so I will not have to
worry too much about maintenance. My main
considerations are MPG and fuel cost, and any
problems about the gas and diesel engines
available....
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Comments
I think the only advice that you'll get is going to be biased. I'm on my third diesel F250. This one is a super cab and 8' bed. I use my truck much like you are planning to do. I have the 7.3L auto and 3.73 rear (LS). Right now diesel and unleaded are running about the same here in LA, $1.66. In the LA traffic mess I usually get in the mid sixteens to low seventeens. On the open road SANELY I've gotten up to the mid nineteens. (SANELY is up to speed limit plus 5.) On some trips to and from Vegas or Phoenix and cruising at the governor (91.5 MPH) the mileage drops into the mid to high fifteens. (The governor is a Ford thing and is based upon speed not engine RPM.) The thing that will get you the best mileage at any speed is using the cruise control. Diesels do not like to accelerate and use a lot of fuel (relatively) to change speeds.
So from this biased source, go diesel! And would I ever buy a truck with a gasoline engine? Yeah, probably when (since I can't use the h-word) the Angels win the world Series.
Rich
You're right on the economy thing. I never bought the diesel thinking of economy. It's just that I like driving a diesel. No other reason. Now there are some other rather nice advantages that come along with the huge beast F-250, but this is a gasoline vs. diesel thing and not Ford vs. whatever.
I've said this before that if you really drive a diesel for 15K miles before you decide if you like it or hate it, the odds are that you'll never drive gasoline again. I know my first diesel (6.9L) was a yawn for the first 10K or so. But then I really decided that I like diesels. Duh no, maybe I'm dumb, maybe I'm just too old to change.
Rich
Jim Kelly
kellyco@wtp.net
It's not what the book value is, it's the market value, the diesil is worth much closer to full book value than the gas eng. It is much harder to sell a gas as compared to a diesel, especially if they have a lot of miles on them.
Book value is derived from an average of sales in a given region. It is the price that's being paid on "average". Book value is also what financial institutions base their lending parameters on, whether it be 100%, 90% etc. So if you're trying to tell me people pay more than book for anything they are either uninformed or silly.
On a personal note I would not buy ANY high mileage vehicle, diesel or gas. While it's indisputable the diesel should last longer the rest of the truck is the same.
You are a rarity in your mileage and weight you pull. The diesel is a better choice. For the Average Joe pulling recreational vehicles occasionally and not putting over 15000 miles a year on a vehicle IMHO the gas will be cheaper, smoother, quieter and quicker.
A diesel is noiser than a gasoline engine.
A diesel smells more than gasoline.
The oil changes are critical and must be done every 3 to 5 K miles. (Most of my driving is freeway and usually moving at 35 and above.) With an oil change of 14-16 quarts you'll be buying the oil in quantity from WalMart. (Store brand is Q-State and is available in 8 quart containers.) You'll need to find a parts store (Pep Boys or Kragen) to dump your used oil.
Reasonably priced filters and the like are not available at the corner parts store. You'll have to plan ahead and order ahead. Diesel injection service in Texas has good prices.
You'll find things that you need that you've never heard of, like anti-cavitation fluid, lubricity enhancer with anti-algae additives.
Fuel stops become an event. Oil must be checked to see if it is increasing in level. The foamy nature of diesel fuel takes longer to fill the tank. Usually, you can put 3 gallons in after automatic shut off. (This is an improvement! It used to be 5 gallons could be added.)
Acceleration is not a diesel's strong point. You have to plan passing on two lane roads and lane changes on the freeway.
Federal taxes are six cents higher per gallon of diesel than gasoline. The range of diesel fuel prices vary greatly and are not necessarily related to the prices of unleaded. Diesel fuel is usually 5 to 20 cents more expensive than gasoline. However, in the LA area the price has been closer to unleaded and once or twice lower.
Diesel fuel is more difficult to find, but not that difficult. Again planning ahead is necessary but not impossible. During a recent trip from Los Angeles to Daytona Beach I was able to plan all except one of my fuel stops in advance. All the fuel stops were at my choice of a particular brand and about 4-5 hours apart.
Diesel fuel is different from gasoline in terms of quality and there are no real guidelines like octane in gasoline. The quality of diesel does make a world of difference in how the truck runs!
The lower the ambient temperature the more difficult it is to start a diesel. My '92 was frequently parked outside and got snowed on but it always started. I did notice that it took cranking for a few extra seconds to start. I have never had to plug in the block heater in any of my trucks, BUT I live in the LA metro area.
After cold starting my diesels I always wait 20-30 seconds before moving. This is to give the oil pressure gauge to register full pressure. A bit inconvenient and there's the smelly smoke for the neighbors.
Now with all those negatives, I seriously doubt that I will ever own a gasoline driven vehicle again. I just like the drivability of the diesel.
Rich
requirement for civil discourse.... And that I'M the one with the DELETE key!?!
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
1 - Does your check brake bulb work? Is your check brake light on? There is a sensor for the ABS system that feeds the TCU (transmission control unit).
2 - The tach sensor is used for input to the TCU.
3 - The throttle position sensor is also fed to the TCU.
Good luck,
Rich
I owned one of the first diesels Ford offered in an E-250 van and found some of the parts houses like NAPA carried the fuel and oil filters. As popular as diesel engines are now, I suspect more parts houses as well as most Walmarts and K-marts carry them, which should bring the cost down. Be careful of the oil you use in them, however, as they do require an oil rated for diesel engines, and all oils aren't.
One thing you didn't mention about the diesel engines is the requirement for clean fuel, so if you go with one and travel in it I recommend you learn to change the fuel filters yourself, buy a couple to put under the seat, and take the tools you need to make the change by the side of the road. My diesel just quit running in the Painted Desert not long after I filled up. Fortunately, I had the tools, filter, and knew how to change the fuel filter, did so, and got right back on the road. For this reason, when a friend bought a Dodge with a Cummins diesel engine in it I recommended he get the shop manuals and learn to change his own fuel filters. He read it, as did his brother, and it sounded to be a difficult task, so he took it to he dealer and paid $65.00 for them to do it. In my van it was easy to change, and the fuel system purged itself of air, which made it even easier. A brother-in-law with a relatively new powerstroke diesel showed me how they are changed on it and it seemed even easier with them. I have asked in several places in these forums if anyone had changed their own fuel filter on a Cummins and no one has responded, although some Powerstroke owners have indicated it is easy on them. Anyone that can respond to that question out there?
There are pro's and con's with diesel. They will probably get better fuel mileage than a larger V-8 like the 5.4L, and around here, at least, on lower cost fuel. I have a friend who has a Dodge 1/2 ton with a gas engine he gets 12 MPG on, and another with the Cummins diesel that gets around 19. At the same time they are noisy, you can't seem to help getting diesel fuel on your hands when you fill up, they cost a good deal more to buy initially, an oil change takes more oil, the oil filters are more expensive, fuel and air filters have to be changed, all of which adds to the cost of operation.
But if I did a lot of towing or intended to do a lot of over the road driving I would probably buy one. Even using the price of low grade gas versus diesel here considering the MPG of each of the Dodges the diesel fuel cost is a little over 7 1/3 cents per mile versus 12 3/4 cents per mile for gas. Over a 100,000 mile useful life that is a savings of around $5,400.00, which would pay for the engine, interest on the additional cost, and leave pocket change.
this topic is being "frozen." It will be archived or deleted in the next 10 days or so.
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host