-September 2024 Special Lease Deals-
2024 Chevy Blazer EV lease from Bayway Auto Group Click here
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee lease from Mark Dodge Click here
2025 Ram 1500 Factory Order Discounts from Mark Dodge Click here
2024 Chevy Blazer EV lease from Bayway Auto Group Click here
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee lease from Mark Dodge Click here
2025 Ram 1500 Factory Order Discounts from Mark Dodge Click here
Honda Fit Hybrid
I am considering trading in my '98 Prelude for a Fit but wonder if I should wait for the Fit Hybrid that is rumored to be out next year.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Yeah, the mileage would be insane, but the Fit already gets very good mileage, so you wouldn't be saving THAT much money, even with 3 buck gas.
Where hybrids really make sense is on gas-guzzlers, like full-size SUVs. Taking your mileage from say an abysmal 11 mpg on up to a semi-abysmal 15 mpg by going hybrid could save you something like $1000 a year, definitely worth it, assuming that the price delta for the hybrid version is at all reasonable.
But with something like the Fit, going from say 35 mpg to 45+ isn't as special as it seems. You'd save maybe $300 a year, and given that hybrids usually cost AT LEAST $3000-4000 more than equivalently-equipped non-hybrids, you'd spend the entire life of the car making your money back. Not worth it, unless you're a true blue (green?) enviromental type, or just want the carpool lane sticker in the few states that offer one for solo drivers in hybrids.
Yeah, there are tax breaks, but they aren't so great yet.
I think they are talking 70+ mpg for a potential hybrid Fit.
That's really unlikely in practice. Hybrids usually improve mileage something on the order of 30-35 percent.
Maybe if it was diesel hybrid it might have a chance at coming somewhere close to that. Also keep in mind that the EPA estimated mpg for hybrids is WAY off compared to real world numbers (sadly).
For example, Priuses in practice get something like 45 mpg in mixed city-hwy driving, nothing near the 60/51 mpg city/hwy they're rated at.
I didn't advocate the number, just repeating what I read. Unfortunately I can't remember the URL...
Here's that URL (they said 50mpg+): http://www.hybridcars.com/honda-fit-hybrid.html
24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
Toyota has the Prius, but Honda looks like it'll have a hybrid success story with the Fit.
Most definitely with the price, $15-17,000 for the hybrid fit...
:surprise:
But with something like the Fit, going from say 35 mpg to 45+ isn't as special as it seems. You'd save maybe $300 a year,
My math is failing me. Why would going from 11 to 15 (4 more miles per gallon) be more significant than 35 to 45 (10 more miles per gallon)?
I bet it will be marketed differently, and I bet I'll be able to get cruise without goofy spoilers and underbody kits
The recent articles keep talking about the Fit using the Insight's hybrid system. While the Fit may use an updated version, I highly doubt it will be the same thing. The Insight uses an old design (introduced in 2000!) that takes up lots of room and weight.
What I am hoping for is that if it indeed is a version of the Insight's system, maybe there could be a manual transmission version too.
Doubtful, but we can all dream!
Fuel Economy
Because if 'Mr. 11 mpg' was driving the same number of miles as 'Mr. 35 mpg', he'd be spending more than 3 times as much on gas as Mister 35 mpg.
So, the 30-35% improvement in mileage that a hybrid would bring would benefit Mister 11 mpg's pocketbook much more. It is one of those cases where the mpg numbers at first glance, are deceptive.
You think "Wow, that econocar hybrid is really saving me so much money, what with a 10 mpg increase!". But the fact is, relatively speaking, you weren't spending all that much on gas compared to Mister 11 mpg and his fuel-gobbling monster SUV. :surprise:
Think about it awhile, the logic/math will become apparent.
One of our Hosts tried getting us to consider that same subject about a year ago. It is a fact that gaining a few MPG on an SUV can save you more money than 10 MPG on a Civic or Corolla.
I would guess US$17-18k for the US market Fit Hybrid.
But let us not forget that the percentages are the same. The smaller car will save more money over the larger car, with the same % increase in both, because the smaller car already saves money on gas. The fact that you save more money in the percentage is irrelevant when one considers the total out-of-pocket for gas between the two cars.
Car A:
$3 gas @ 30mpg = $.10 per mile
$3 gas @ 40 mpg = $.075 per mile
saving $.025 per mile.
Car B:
$3 gas @ 15mpg = $.20 per mile
$3 gas @ 25mpg = $.12 per mile
saving $.08 per mile.
Car B has greater savings, thus the lower mpg car benefits more from the hybrid in term of fuel savings.
I would think with a little tweaking (diesel, gearing, more efficient or smaller engine) they could get the Fit up to about 50 mpg without the complications of a hybrid.
It will never make it to North America though.
To reiterate, yes, putting a hybrid on an 11 mpg environment destroyer mega-SUV helps save on fuel costs MUCH more than does going hybrid on an econocar. The math is fairly obvious:
Mega Enviroment Destroyer SUV: Driven ~ 15000 miles/yr
w/out hybrid: 11 mpg
1350 gallons gas/year
Fuel Price tag: $4,050/yr (assuming $3/gallon gas)
with hybrid: 15 mpg
1000 gallons gas/yr
Fuel Price tag: $3,000 yr
Savings: $1,050/yr, aka 'a lot'
Very 'Fit'-ting Econocar, driven ~ 15000 miles a year
w/out hybrid: 35 mpg
425 gallons gas/year
Fuel Price tag: $1,275/yr (assuming $3/gallon gas)
with hybrid: 50 mpg
300 gallons gas/yr
Fuel Price tag: $900/yr
Savings: $375/yr, aka 'nice, but not so much'
The above was my only point... in terms of saving money and reducing sheer volume of pollutants spewed, going hybrid on a big SUV obviously has more benefit than going hybrid on an econocar.
That said, I'm sure environmentalists everywhere would be quick to remind us that the greatest positive change would be in going from a non-hybrid big SUV to a hybrid econocar. And they would right. :shades:
I, however, take the pessimistic view that there are just some folks you'll just never pry out of their bloated oversize SUVs. And most of 'em don't have families of eight.
All information points to a release of the hybrid first in Japan...that means the next generation, which should be introduced in Spring or Summer 2007. The current body cycle is almost over.
This would only make sense, as it would be a much better idea to design the car with a hybrid system in mind, rather than just dropping it into such an old design.
Not enough power to make it over the Alps?
Not enough power to merge into 150 km/h traffic from a short on-ramp or deal with some treacherous quick acceleration city driving either. :P
...after spending time in the US, and then returning to Europe, sometimes the speed of the traffic there makes my head spin.
I would be all for the L12A in the US, but I think this issue has already exhausted itself in these forums several times over.
I thought Europe had autobahn speedways that make ours look like horse and buggy roads. Do they have long ramps there, or do you just keep your Aygo off them?
Speaking of the Aygo, I was watching a car show that did a review on it and during the test they confidently went on the motorway at realistic speeds without trouble!
One more thing that is very different though between US and Europe is the way people drive (and general road manners), which makes it safer for smaller cars on the highways.
Even now driving through Los Angeles can be a hair-raising experience, but I still would trust a lower-powered Fit with better mileage driving on US roads.
Just my opinion, but I prefer smaller engines with better fuel-efficiency over hybrids. However, if Honda can produce a hybrid Fit with excellent mileage, more power to them!
Awww, it can't be worse than my 1989 Hyundai Excel. 63 HP, at least I had a manual transmission.
I think the reason they won't bring a smaller engine to market here is because people would not buy it. Speed and power are of the highest priority to many people.
The L12A is only available with the 5MT, so it makes better use of the power than the CVT option.
Amen to that!
I remember one time in Portugal, I was riding in a cab on the highway and I saw an ambulance and a motorcyclist driving side by side. The ambulance did NOT have its lights on and was not responding to an emergency, by the by.
Anyways, the ambulance 'just decided' that it wanted to be in the lane the motorcycle was in... only problem is that the motorcyclist was already in the spot the ambulance wanted to be in. Didn't matter... ambulance swerved over, no warning, no blinkers, no nothing.
The motorcyclist swerved away for dear life, then came back alongside the ambulance and the rider proceeded to start kicking the side of the ambulance from about 1 foot away. At freeway speeds, mind you.
Eventually, the guy riding shotgun on the ambulance sticks his head out and starts yelling at the motorcyclist, who proceeds to give him the finger. They start yelling at each other and shaking fists at each other, the motorcyclist kicking the side of the amulance all the while. This goes on for several minutes, with the ambulance eventually doing little 'mini' swerves to get the motorcyclist to back off. :surprise:
One of the funniest (and scariest) things I've seen on the road. Euro drivers are nuts.
I was honestly talking about it being the other way around. Not to say people in Europe don't sometimes try to do several things while driving, but it seems to be the norm in the US...eating, shaving, talking on the phone, etc, etc. I can't even count how many times I've been pushed out of my lane (or off the road!) in the US by people who don't indicate and aren't capable of driving a motor vehicle.
It varies so much from country to country though...certain countries have reputations for being particularly aggressive or crazy in Europe.
The countries I have spent the most time driving in Europe (Austria, Germany, Hungary), I find to be safer than the US. They indicate, are more courteous, pay more attention etc. Some people might drive aggressively in Europe, but they also seem a lot more focused on driving. I attribute a lot of it to the manual vs. automatic transmission.
Being that this is the Fit Hybrid discussion, I won't continue.
It will be interesting at what premium the Fit Hybrid will be. Probably proportionally the same between the Civic EX and Civic Hybrid
The Fit hybrid will be here in 2008.
Please Honda, go all out on this: bring a diesel hybrid, a true 70mpg car.
This has not happened yet but look forward to it. I believe it is a coming thing. I agree with hungarian in that smaller engines getting better mileage is better than a hybrid and much simpler to repair.
We discussed this about a year ago. Have not heard how the experiment in Oregon is going. It has to come about as the fleet gets more efficient the highway miles go up and the revenue to repair the roads and bridges goes down.
See this thread for the discussion.
gagrice, "Highway funding ideas include taxes on hybrids" #2, 27 Nov 2005 10:01 pm
Unbelievable.
Does that mean, for model year '08, or in '08?
This is all speculation though...
Unbelievable."
Nope, has nothing to do with Washington or thieves. Europe does not tax by the liter; they have road taxes based on the engine size. They long ago discovered that high MPG cars don't use that much gas.
The roads have to be maintained, you see, even if your car only uses 9 gallons per 500 miles, as opposed to the SUV at a gadzillion gallons per 500 miles. There is still 500 miles of road maintenance per car. It is true that heavier vehicles cause more road damage, but that simply would mean that perhaps vehicle taxes should be partially based on weight. No free lunches - someone has to maintain the roads, and that someone expects to be paid.
I suggest you follow the above link to view the original thread.
Are you referring to liters of fuel, or liters of engine size?
...a dumb question, but I don't want to wrongly interpret the sentence.
But the idea that you punish people financially for purchasing high-mileage vehicles, when we need to weaning ourselves off poisonous oil dependency, is absolutely ludicrous. And any idiot politician that advocates that should be (and will be) drummed out of office--federal, state, or local.
A few less tax cuts and millions more hybrids!
Not a dumb question at all, my bad. Engine size. That way the larger and more expensive cars pay more, while the smaller cars pay less.
That is one reason that turbo technology is so popular in Europe; more HP on less CC engine size.
But the idea that you punish people financially for purchasing high-mileage vehicles, when we need to weaning ourselves off poisonous oil dependency, is absolutely ludicrous. And any idiot politician that advocates that should be (and will be) drummed out of office--federal, state, or local."
I think the time will come when the taxes will have to change. It is not a "penalty", it is a "reality". But it will likely be a while before this takes effect. Politicians are rather slow sometimes, and will have to see the highway funds shrinking before they change the tax codes. So breathe easy for now...
I must point out that the two parts of your post do not match - if the gov needs $$, they have to come from somewhere, and it won't be from gas taxes if everyone is getting high MPG.
On a car with a 3.5 liter engine it is about $14,000! :surprise:
That might explain why even companies like Mercedes and BMW have a wonderful selection of small, efficient engines in Europe.
"Introduction in the U.S. and Canada in 2009 of a new, more affordable, dedicated hybrid car."
Here's the link.
If this were going to be the hybrid Fit, they wouldn't be calling it a "dedicated" hybrid. With allocations for the US expected to be 100,000 units, I think this hybrid will could replace the HCH and put the kibosh on the HFH.
It's very possible that this dedicated hybrid will be based on the Fit. (Hence all the rumors about a Fit hybrid.) But it won't be the same car. My guess is it'll be based on the next Fit's structure, but have a more aerodynamic shape.
I can't remember numbers, but the Insight wasn't a slouch when it came to getting off the line, but with 600+lb more weight, it sure would be.
Honda's IMA system, IMHO, is just notthe best arrangement. In the Insight, I found that the motor just didn't assist as much as I'd like. Give it double the torque output, and it would have been very nice. Then the battery capacity wasn't as great either.
I ended up trading the Insight in on my current car, because I just lived too close to work for it to 'stretch it's legs'. The Insight needed 12-15 miles of good highway driving to regenerate itself.
No doubt, I was able to get some VERY impressive fuel economy numbers. Once from Austin to Fort Worth and back rated 72mpg. From Austin to San Juan Capistrano (South of LA) and back averaged 68mpg.
With the US mandating cleaner/better diesel fuel starting this year (or was it next?), I'd be much more interested in a turbodeisel Fit that gets 50+mpg than a hybrid.
(as an aside, I don't own a Fit yet, I'm in contact with an internet sales manager at a dealer close to where I live. She says it would be about a month before they could get what I want [silver sport MT], and I have to see what they'll give me for my trade in)