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dodge 4.7 engine

chergarychergary Posts: 1
edited March 2014 in Dodge
I have a 2000 dodge pick-up with 4.7 engine.
went to change the oil for the first time, and
found heavy condensation on in the oil filter
funnel.
the funnel is plastic attached to the block?
is this the problem?
the dealer says this is normal for this engine?
do not worry?
the oil that drained from the pan had no
condensation.
performance is tops.
best engine I had from dodge

Comments

  • hennehenne Posts: 407
    look in the other dodge dakota forums, there is alot of talk on this. it is normal for this to happen.
  • tpeters1tpeters1 Posts: 11
    I don't think this is a normal condition for any engine. Do you drive short distances, ie; round town, stop and go?
  • hennehenne Posts: 407
    if you were to take the valve covers off you would prob see this type of substance at times, when it is in this composite filler neck it doesnt get how and burn off like normal fills that are on top of vavle covers. its not pretty but its normal for a composite filler neck that is mounted off o the side and it doesnt hurt anything.

    robert
  • tunaredtunared Posts: 5
    TSB 09-01-00 will explain the goop. The TSB can be obtained at www.geocities.com/natedak2k/oil_cond_tsb.jpg . Don't try to get an answer from DC customer service - they won't know (besides being rude).
  • bookittybookitty Posts: 1,303
    Thank you for the information regarding the much discussed "goop" found in 4.7 engines under certain conditions. I saved it and printed it for future usage.

    Bookitty
  • themacguythemacguy Posts: 417
    As the tsb shows this to be an emulsion, you can be pretty sure that the yellow / orange nature of this stuff is the sulfur content of regular hydrocarbon (chain) based oil (base) stocks 'flashing' off at high temps, then collecting as the engine vapors in the tube (valve covers, etc.) coalesce during cooling. This is specifically why (mostly) pure synthetic based oils don't have this (visible) occurrence.

    I agree with tpeters1 here (and henne, bpeebles, bookitty and a_j in past comments) that this is NOT a desirable engine process by-product. I've raced high performance vehicles (as have a_j and others) for 30 years and have seldom seen this in other engines. My feeling is that with the unique and very tight tolerance design - especially with the long 'vapor holding' oil tube - of this hemi-like engine, that it has just 'happened' in the 4.7. It's another very good reason to switch to a synthetic oil like Mobil 1, Redline, Amsoil, Syntec, etc. You can be sure that D/C will get rid of this problem as soon as they can vent it through some new weird filter thingamajiggy. Of course you and I will pay for it...

    Only other episode like this of late has been a friend's Honda Goldwing. He had a dipstick installed in his 10k mile (very nice) 1979 model and it runs across the front of the engine and slightly up to the left. The inside of the cap just below the finger 'loop' has this same sulfur emulsion buildup in it every time he checks his oil. Once again a tight tolerance engine with a long tube attached to the upper crankcase. He thought it was a coolant leak from a blown head gasket causing the emulsion until we ran compression and leakdown tests on the engine. Good news is no pressure leak; bad news is that most bikes should NOT run synthetics due to wet clutch action problems caused by the synthetics, so he's 'stuck' with the problem. Good news is that our 4.7s are not. :-)
  • spike50spike50 Posts: 481
    It seems that the oil fill tube is like our appendix, a blind tube, where "things" can accumulate. May be synthetics are the way to go with all engines but to me it seems that this Mopar fill tube design either needs insulated to keep it warmer so there is less of tendency for condensation of oil / water to occur; shortened to further reduce the potential for build up; or have a ventilated cap that draws these vapors into the engine to be burned.

    thermacguy - wanted to ask if you felt that the cost differential between "premium" mineral (Castrol, Pensoil, etc.) oils vs. the $4+ / quart synthetics is justified? You know your oils.
  • bookittybookitty Posts: 1,303
    Spike, I know what to do with a bad or malfunctioning appendix. However, a truck may not be a candidate for a surgigal procedure. I'm prescribing 6 quarts of synthetic lubricant every 3000 miles, and call me in the morning.

    Bookitty
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Posts: 765
    one of spike50's comments.

    Synthetic is the way to go for all NEW engines (or newish) - IMHO.

    I wouldn't recommend switching to synthetics in older engines or you may discover a long hidden chassis lubrication feature!!

    Incidentally, I have driven a lot of Eutopean spec vehicles which tend to have tighter tolerance engines - the need to get more power from smaller engines because of gas prices. I can't recall seeing emulsions in oil before.
  • nrd525nrd525 Posts: 109
    Just to put my observations in,the synthetic oil USUALLY will prevent this "gunk" from showing up,but I have seen stuff(whitish/yellow)in oil fill tubes that are long enough to let the temp go down to a low enough point in stop and go/short run time situations.A woman I knew had an Olds mid size,in the late 70's with a 403.She took it in to one of the bigger rip off joints in this area,and there was goo at the top of the filler tube.They,of course,told her the engine was trash.She called me,and asked me too look at it.I had a 79 Trans Am,with a 403,that used Mobil 1 since 9000 miles,when I bought it.I looked,and I had it too!
    Hers was much worse,but her main problem was crud in the return holes in the heads,they were 2/3s clogged with sludge.I checked and cleaned almost all the sludge out,and put Mobil 1 in it.I took the car on a trip for 500 miles,and came back and there was all sorts of junk in it.I changed the oil again,she drove it a month,and I took off the easy valve cove to see what it looked like.It looked Great!Almost spotless,and any sludge I couldn't easily get out was gone.I drained the oil through a cheescloth,and it was dark,but no gunk.
    She used Mobil 1 in that car till she died in 95,it had over 100k on it,and was running fine last year,before it was junked due to rust,it was really bad.Her son said it never used any oil,and had 175k+,the speedo died a few months before the car did.The oil pressure was a little low,that was it.
    I guess my point is,since it's a plastic tube,it probably just gets normal blow by vapor up in it,and it's cool enough for it to condense and form "goo".
    I really wouldn't worry too much about it,use synt,and if there really is a problem,your warranty should cover it,since you reported it before it ran out.
  • thesandmanthesandman Posts: 40
    Dodge has in stalled a rubber shield at the front of the engine,left of the radaitor,to block the cold air from going into the engine compartment and cooling the filler tube.This should help in the winter. I don't think its needed in summer so I removed it and will reinstall next fall. Vehicle-2000 Dakota W/4.7
  • spike50spike50 Posts: 481
    Got my 4.7, 4x4 Quad on May 4th. After reading your post I checked it out and it doesn't have any shielding. The fill tube is directly in the path of any air flowing through the radiator and fan blades. I believe that as winter approaches in Pennsylvania, I'll be getting the dreaded yellow slime unless I switch to a synthetic oil.

    Wonder if the dealers can install these shields or are they built right into the radiator / window washer / fan housing assembly?
  • firemedfiremed Posts: 2
    Got my 2000 Dakota 4X4 4.7 on May 17th. Would like to know whats with the trans dipstick not seating properly. Is there a tsb? Also any other quirks I should look for. This engine runs strong and seems to be fairly efficient.
  • thesandmanthesandman Posts: 40
    The first Quads ,I believe, came without the shields.Did you buy from dealer stock or order one? I'm sure Dodge reads the stuff(and it's good stuff) we talk about here and they try to remedy the problems.Thats a good thing.Check the build date and compare yours to a newer Quad.I saw a older Quad at the auto show last winter and it didn't have the shield.I knew about the tan foam problem from this forum.
  • spike50spike50 Posts: 481
    thesandman - Mine was ordered then built in April and took delivery May '00. Must have been using up the old parts. I don't know if it matters but I did get the Heavy Duty package on the 4.7L / 5 sp and there's a second thinner radiator in front of the normal one. Don't know if that one is part of the HD package or not or if it prevents the mounting of the shield you spoke of. Is the shield upstream or downstream of the normal radiator?
  • thesandmanthesandman Posts: 40
    The shield I'm talking about is left of the radiator as you face the engine,the horn is on the right side of the radiator.This area used to be open letting cold air pass through and directing contacting the fill tube causing condensation to form on the inside of the fill tube.Oil and water = muck.How it becomes foam I,m not sure.My truck was born in February so yours is younger than mine so I would think the shield is there.I to have the H.D.package and the 4.7/auto.
  • spike50spike50 Posts: 481
    thesandman - Now I see it but I'm scratching my head and questioning its effectiveness. It seems so far away to adequately do the job. I've been looking on the wrong side of the radiators for it. I kept assuming that it had to be right there. I guess the thought is that the air coming through the radiators will be warmer than the cooler "winter" air and therefore less apt to cause this oil / water emulsion to condense in this fill tube "appendix".
  • thesandmanthesandman Posts: 40
    I agree.Its so simple a solution it has to work.In the summer I want the fresh air in the engine compartment,so I removed the shield.I'll reinstall this fall as the temperature falls.Then we'll see what happens.I've run into another small problem,as have others,with the transmission dip stick not staying completely seated.I'll see what kind of a fix "jerry rig" I can come up with.Was thinking a hose clamp attached to the dip stick tube and a small spring.
  • spike50spike50 Posts: 481
    Have the 5 sp so I don't have the same problems that way. The manual usually not a lot of extra work until you're trying to eat an ice cream cone while driving. Just hitting 1,400 miles on it and the engine is still running strong but only getting 16+ mpg. Been reading all of the back and forth on synthetic oils and wondering how soon I should be changing the oil. Still clear but needing the little trap door for the filter is pretty bad.
  • themacguythemacguy Posts: 417
    I don't get to this topic very often, so please excuse my tardiness in getting back to you on expense. I believe if you took an older design car or a newer one and did the math, you'd probably be buying an engine rebuild on either one by using 3k changes on synth oils with high quality filters for rated engine life of say, 100k in the older designs and 200k+ in newer ones. Either way, it's sort of like the 'pay me now or pay me later' scenario of yore. With extended changes due to lack of viscosity breakdown in the synth oils, say to 6k or even to 10k (heck, Porsche recommends 15k changes with synth oils!), you'd be getting your money's worth with the synth oils. My Dak Quad has 15k miles and I change my oil at 3k intervals (Mobil 1), and the stuff looks and smells new - I may even bump the changes to 5k - 6k soon, unless 'unusual duty' on the vehicle requires more frequent changes. Why? The FILTER technology has changed dramatically with the advent of the Mobil 1 type filter media and the cold start bypass features. This to me is as big a step forward as the synth oils were 20 years ago.

    nrd525 - Hey, I had a 78 TA 6.6 - weren't those fantastic cars! Wish I still had it...
  • thesandmanthesandman Posts: 40
    Filters are not going to get everything out of the oil.Some filters more than others.But as the miles add up so will the contaminates in the oil.If you have the bucks go synthics.I'll be going with regular oil and dump it every 3000-4000 miles with a new filter,a good one like the Mobil 1,Wixs and such.Most filters have a bypass when restriction comes into play.Frams HP-1 has no by pass so you really keep your eye on the oil and oil pressure when using that one.I use Oberg filters on my sand cars.They have very little restriction when they are clean.NASCAR uses them as do other types of racing groups.They have a screen that can be cleaned and reused.Lots of stuff collects on those screens and in a short period of time.So as the filter collects dirt it becomes more restrictive and then the bypass comes into play. With spin on filters when that point comes into play I don't know.So between 3000 or 4000 miles new filter new oil for me.
  • spike50spike50 Posts: 481
    I had to search the old memory bank on that one but thanks for the reply. I was trolling the oil and oil filter shelves at K-Mart today but they never have much left or on display in the way of synthetics, just Mobil 1 and two different Castrols. A lot of 15-50W stuff "For Trucks". Have my dear old mother looking at Sam's Club for Mobil 1 by the case to see if I can get it cheaper. Have 1,500 miles on the original oil and filter. Still looks clear.
  • themacguythemacguy Posts: 417
    If you're talking about 15W-50 synthetics, they should read: for racing or sustained high temp service only. 50 weight stuff should be used in apps. that consistently run above 220 degrees or so OR preheat oil before use - such as some racing or high temp industrial apps. I used to use CAM 2 15W-50 petro oil in my racing Vettes and oil cooled Porsches - before I switched to synth oils. I made the mistake of running a synth oil 15W-50 in my street cars for a year or so before my next door neighbor Indy mechanic chewed me out (and I gunked up my engines pretty good too). He's the one that told me to ADD 10 'points' of viscosity to regular based oil on the high end and 5 pts on the low when comparing synth to petro: eg - 10w-40 synth is equivalent to 15W-50 petro oil. I've since run across some verbage like that at some of the synth oil sites here on the web. --There is no comparison to the 0W-30 that Mobil 1 has developed however, as it is for above Arctic Circle use only as I understand it-- Plus, our average daily temps here in W TX are higher than a lot of other US areas. So I use the 10W-30 Mobil 1 to get +/- 15W-40 protection for my Dak Quad. It's usually about 100+ in the day with a nightly low of 70+.

    thesandman - Agreed. With the (much) tighter tolerances in newer engines I see the need for similar change intervals. And if you change petro oils at 3k RELIGIOUSLY (w/o skipping a change EVER) - then I believe that synth oils may be just some mental insurance (in fact a huge expense) in normal use / regular climate type of driving. Petro base stock oils with the higher performance additives (found in synth oils too) are no problem whatsoever. Newer petro oils have improved as well, it's just that the viscosity breakdown occurs much, much sooner in petro oils - like 2k+.
  • thesandmanthesandman Posts: 40
    Dodge says you can go 7500 miles between changes under NORMAL driving conditions. The petro oils after 7500 are weak at that point. I'm sticking with changes every 3000-4000 miles.Viscosity breakdown = weak dead oil.
  • moparmadmoparmad Posts: 197
    I was always told to change my oil every three thousand miles.even with synthetics due to contamination of the oil.Even synthetics will be full of combustion by products and some gasoline etc. at this point.On my 92 Ram I gained a little gas milage with synthetics and at 13 mpg any little bit is welcome.But I change my oil religeously at three thousand miles.Except my Cuda I change that every three months.
    The original problem was seeing gunk in your oil fill on your 4.7L.There is a very simple and effective cure for this...Just take it to Mighty Lube and dont ever look inside there.Problem solved...Hey it's under warranty,right.
    And people wonder why I say the beauty of the 318 and 360 is that they were born before I was.
  • meredithmeredith Posts: 577
    After 30 or more days of inactivity....

    this topic is being "frozen." It will be archived or deleted in the next 10 days or so.

    Front Porch Philosopher
    SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
This discussion has been closed.