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Infiniti M35/M45 vs BMW 5-Series



  • vsaxenavsaxena Posts: 203
    Here is the deal.

    1. Lease starts 14 days before pickup.
    2. Car takes 6-8 weeks to West Coast after drop-off (2 months max)
    3. BMWFS marks up standard MF by 0.0003; dealer can mark it up by 0.0004 (like regular lease)
    4. BMWFS makes one payment (2nd payment)
    So you get the car 2.5 months after the signing of the lease. You make (N-1) payments (N = 24 or 36 months) and (N-2.5) months of usage.

    It is easy to do $1000-$1500 over European Invoice.
    The kicker is that residual is calculated over US MSRP.

    My car had a US MSRP of $51170. ED Invoice was $44510.
    Residual for 24 months/10K miles was 77% (YES!). It would have been 74% for a 15K Miles. For 36 month lease the residual would have been 63% and 60% (10K/15K respectively). For my 24month/10K lease residual was 39863.00. I got about 11.5% discount over US MSRP and payed for 11.5% of depreciation for 2 years. The base MF was also good 0.0016. ED added 0.0003. I did multiple security deposits (5x deposits with a reduction of 0.00005 each). Since then BMWFS has increased the limits to 7 deposits with a reduction of 0.00007 per deposit. Just got my BMW CCA check :) for $1K yesterday.

    Note that BMW was running leasing specials during Dec/Jan when I locked in my rate.

    The current rates are from Ask a Dealer Section at bimmerfest which also has ED invoice prices.

    2007 BMW 5 Series 530i / Compare Instant Lease Quotes (add 2% for 12K and 3% for 10K lease to residuals)

    24 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 70% of MSRP – .00225 Base Money Factor Rate
    36 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 60% of MSRP – .00225 Base Money Factor Rate

    Note the dealer can mark up by 0.0004 and there is a 0.0003 ED markup.

    The leases on are the MAXIMUM you should EVER pay. Think of them as the List price. Just negotiate up from ED invoice and ask for the BMW buy rate MF for the car. For a 3 series $800-$1200 over invoice is do able for a 5 series $1000-$1500 over ED invoice is do able. Call the ED/Internet specialist at different dealerships and just ask them for the over invoice cost and any MF markup (try for zero). You can also do this via email. I did my deal in less than 60 seconds and spent a total of 30 minutes at the dealer. I did waste some time talking to some other not so helpful dealers, but the ED internet specialists are the one to go to.

    Since BMWs are option heavy the lease price varies a lot with what you chose. If you are doing US delivery on a 2007 530 with MSRP of $55000, and $2500 discount over MSRP and base lease rates, with multiple security deposits (7) your payment should be close to $700 + tax for 36 months 15K/year.

    These lease rates are nothing special and might improve. The residuals are 4% less than the December special and the MF is 0.000625 higher

    The ED lease will be around $100 less. You can typically get more discounts then what I posted to knock another $20-30 off. Often 24 month ED leases are cheaper than 36 month leases. Also note that 2007 530 series costs about $2000 more than a 2006 530 with Sports/Premium Packages. BMW Assist is now standard for 4 years and comfort seats are standard with the Sports Package.
  • sfcharliesfcharlie Posts: 402
    vsaxena ... thanks for that detailed help about leases here on on the ED board (you're right, about options ... I think we had trouble finding "packages" under options, so didn't add them.

    In an earlier post you made a good point: "Most of the posts about the handling of the M are generic and not at all specific. No one is talking about why and where the handling is better or getting into specifics."

    The following is not about the M, but I'm using it to get more clear on what you consider to be adequate ways of addressing "why', "where," and "specifics" ...

    July "Automobile" magazine. They compared BMW M5, Audi S6, and Mercedes E63 AMG. Ranked AMG first, S6 second, and M5 third. They conlcuded: "Unlike the BMW, which feels a little twitchy as it nears the limit of adhesion, the AMG hugs the tarmac." The editors continued to list the ways in which they found the Mercedes better to drive than the bimmer: "There is also less lift-off weight transfer, less acceleration squat, and less brake dive, and, despite the subdued body movements, you always know where you are on the speed and g-force map." However, the AMG "surpasses the [Audi] S6 only by a whisker."

    In addition to my interest in what you think of that (you might reply over on the LPS forum, if comparing German sedans doesn't fit here, as I posted a variation on this over there), does it exemplify what you are asking M35-defenders to write here?

  • vsaxenavsaxena Posts: 203
    Something like that. Maybe with not as many "professional terms".

    For example: Last month I drove an Avalon out of the JFK airport which has a lot of grid-separators with curves. For the first five minutes I could not drive the car properly. The controls did not respond the way I thought they would and often I would have much less directional control than I am used to. The steering felt soft, had a lot of play and did not give me any sense of confidence at all. After a few minutes I got used to it, but it was an utterly boring driving experience.

    I am sure the M is 100x better than the Avalon..

    On the new BMWs the active roll stabilization is really nice since it reduces the body roll (and discomfort) during fast cornering making driving on the same grid-separators a blast! Like the comment about the M5 above, Z4 too is twitchy at the limits; the Porsche's do better at the extremes. But we are talking extreme limits which have to try hard to hit in normal driving; like taking a hard right turn in excess of 35mph from the edge of the right lane (shoulder) to the right most lane. Those roadsters sure can be thrown around.
  • vsaxenavsaxena Posts: 203
    BTW I meant "grade-separator" and not "grid-separator" in my previous post.
  • ghstudioghstudio Posts: 970
    I just replaced my 03 530i (3 yr lease) with an 06 M35 (2 yr lease). The M35 seems more powerful and responsive and, to me, is actually more fun to drive than the 530. Admittedly, I am not driving hilly and curvy roads in New England...I do mostly city driving in flat florida.

    One thing that always bothered me about the BMW was the oppressively loud engine auxilliary cooling fan which always ran in Florida....I never could get used to that noise. The navigation was also technologically ancient....turn a knob to find the right letter and hit enter, etc. I think the only thing I actually miss are the automatic windshield wipers.

    The M35 navigation and voice response is light years ahead of BMW; the headlights are much better on the M35 (I did not have HID's on the BMW); the bose 2 channel radio is far better than the base BMW radio.

    The only area where the M35 fails is the passenger seat which on the '06 is just too low and not height adjustable. The 07's fix this, but the lease deal on the 06 was so good right now that I decided to live with the seat rather than wait for the 07 and presumably a much higher MF. It's an incredible rate on the 24 month lease and with multiple security deposits, my MF is actually .00002 ....

    Lease price on the new M35 is almost identical to the 03 BMW 530i...and in 2 years I get to drive another new car....I suspect there will be lots of new mercedes E class diesel (with perhaps a better repair history), new M37 (perhaps better gas mileage), etc.

    The sad part is that BMW wasn't even in contention for this lease because the seat belt fitting on the 06 door pillar is fixed...and no matter what my 5'0" wife did adjusting the seats, the seat belt just cut her across the neck. I guess there are no short Germans.
  • vsaxenavsaxena Posts: 203
    The 2003 530 was a 7 year old design (started in 1997). As a result all the electronics and other gizmo which entered cars in the past decade had to be retro fitted into the overall design. The 2004+ 5 series have all the electronic stuff which you were missing in the 2003 530. The lack of an adjustable seat belt is certainly an issue. My spouse is also not much taller than your wife, but we have never had the issue with the seat belt with our cars (Old/New 5 series, Z4, 7 series, pathfinder etc.). Are you positioning the seat correctly? The position in which the seat-belt drapes the body also depends on the seat position.
  • prophetprophet Posts: 72
    As a past owner of a 2003 BMW 530 (29,000 miles) & current 2006 M35 (25,000 miles) I've experienced both. The M35 is my choice for a number of reasons:

    Handling - The M35 (with Michelin tires)is equal to the 530
    Performance - The M35 is slightly quicker
    Driving Comfort - M35's interior dimensions are a plus
    Electronics - The 530 is not in the ball game - M35 is the hands down winner (reliable electronics too)
    Overall Reliability - 530 had several (minor) problems, one (minor) for the M35

    Both do their job well but my next vehicle will be a 2008 M35.
  • ghstudioghstudio Posts: 970
    I'm also a past owner of a 2003 530 and 2006 M35. I much prefer the M, but i do miss the smoothness and quietness of the BMW. (I am ignoring the incredibly loud auxiliary engine fan on the 530..I don't miss that for an instant)

    Most of my driving is around town with an occasional 400 mile road trip. I want the power to a) get on interstates, pass cars 60-80mph to get into a clear space of road and to get out of trouble when someone does something really stupid on the road. Both have enough power. I don't care much about acceleration off the line at a stop light and there are not curves or hills in Southwest Florida so cornering performance is, unfortunately, unimportant.

    If I were back in Connecticut/vermont, I would buy the 530 because the BMW suspension is unbeatable. In South Florida, the M gets my buying $'s.

    I have a 2 year lease (at very close to zero percent interest) and I too am likely to purchase a 2008 M35 with the expected new 3.7 engine and the new transmission that Nissan put in the Maxima this year.
  • sfcharliesfcharlie Posts: 402
    Strategic Vision is a new player (10 years old) in the auto rating game. Responses from more than 29,000 buyers who bought 2006 models in October and November of 2005 were used to calculate the Total Quality Index.

    Total Quality Index
    * Satisfaction with complete ownership experience
    * Perception of quality
    * Emotional attachment to vehicle

    2006 Infiniti M35/M45 - 908
    2006 BMW 5-Series Sedan - 904
    2006 Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedan - 900
    2006 Audi A6 Sedan - 893

    Don't know statistical significance of point differences. Even the 15 point difference between M35 and A6 might or might not be significant, given that this is a score out of 1000.

    I have just broken in an M35 and have mixed reactions. Great acceleration. Worst mpg of any car I've driven since 1987 Chevy Blazer. Not super-engaging on curves and turns, but comfortable in all aspects.
  • sfcharliesfcharlie Posts: 402
    2006 Total Quality Award Winners
    "Luxury Car" Segment

    Rank- Vehicle- TQI Score
    1- BMW 7-Series Sedan- 928
    2- Infiniti M35/M45- 908
    2- Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class Sedan- 908
    4- Jaguar XJ- 905
    5- BMW 5-Series Sedan- 904
    6- Lexus LS 430- 903
    6- Lexus GS 300/400- 903
    -- Segment Average ----- 901
    8- Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedan- 900
    9- Mercedes-Benz S-Class Sedan- 897
    10- Audi A6 Sedan- 893
  • vsaxenavsaxena Posts: 203
    You are comparing the electronics of the last year of the E39, 2003, a 7 year old design from 1996, with a car released in 2006 :mad: . You need to compare the E60, 2006 5-series electronics to get an apples to apples comparison.

    And you have to be a fairly conservative driver to find the handling of the E39 equal to the M35. The E39 inspired an amazing degree of confidence in curves and turns, which I do not think the M35 provides.
  • jdmassjdmass Posts: 14
    I went from a 2002 540 to an 06 M35x, and while the M is a very nice car, it doesn't come close the driving pleasure of the BMW. I will admit that perhaps I should have looked at the M45 sport, but unfortunately I didn't. I also got significantly better mileage with the V8 BMW than the V6 Infiniti.

    Oh well, it's only a 2 yr lease.
  • avinebergavineberg Posts: 6
    Call infinity leasing and ask about their early termination program. I did and after 12 months, I am being released from the remainder of my lease with a minimal penalty. They basically are asking for the difference between the remaining obligation and the current wholesale value of the car (which is very high).

    I love most things about the m35x, except the gear shifts from 1 to 4 and the mileage which is just plain bad.
  • vsaxenavsaxena Posts: 203
    Actually that is the norm if you want to turn in the car early and get out of a lease. It is like trading in the car or selling it back to ad dealer.

    A better option often is to get someone else to assume the lease, using one of the lease market places like leasecompare or even craiglist.
  • Let's just say they were the same price, which one would you buy and why?
  • I ordered a 530xi since it leased for only $50/month more than a comparably equipped m35x. I drove both several times and don't think they compare despite the experts' articles.
  • ocimocim Posts: 45
    Drove both cars today. The Infiniti felt noticeable quicker, has a better ride, seems like it stops a little better, and has a lot more room. Both cars felt very secure around corners. In the end, the Infiniti felt very luxurious while delivering a high level of performance in this class. The reliability also seems to be excellent.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,056
    Sounds like you've found the car you're looking for. Well done.

    Is there an implicit question in your post? If so, what is it?

    Otherwise, enjoy your M. I've certainly had good luck with Nissan products.
  • That answer was in response to my question and I appreciated it.
  • Here is the bottom line. You might save some $ buying or leasing a Infiniti M34 or M45, but you WISHED you were driving a BMW.

  • kmeikmei Posts: 1
    hmm... it's completely oppsite to my experience. I saved about $100 a month leasing a 530i compare to the M35 by taking advantage of BMW's ED program and high residual.. If I can lease a M35 for similar monthly payments, I may get M35 instead for added powers and room.
  • mmoreno1978mmoreno1978 Posts: 106
    Yeah. I think thats why the sales are higher as well. Less expensive to drive a 5 Series or and E-Class. But you def get what you pay for with the M35. I get atleast 1 compliment on the car everytime I go to the mall or grocery shopping. Anytime I am with my associates who drive the 5 series, we do not even get a look. The car is much to common. Seems like everyone has one.
  • bhavi_jpbhavi_jp Posts: 6
    LOL.. Just LOL
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    Exactly the opposite where I live (greater DC area). Hardly anyone can identify an M, and few are seen. BMWs are everywhere and highly sought. I drove both the M and E60 and I like some of the features of the M (nav especially), but it is NOT CLOSE to being the drive that that the E60 is. Also, the M is noisy (tires, wind, etc), which for 40K+ should be better.
  • mmoreno1978mmoreno1978 Posts: 106
    Exactly!! They are less expensive. That was the main reason i went with the M. Much more exclusive (ATLEAST IN NJ/NY)
  • achonkoachonko Posts: 51
    Since the 530 is out of production you might want to consider the 535xi vs M45 and 528xi vs M35 proposition as well.
    Price and performance makes the proposition a tough one.
  • mmoreno1978mmoreno1978 Posts: 106
    I believe you mean the 535(V6) vs. the M35(V6).

    The M45(V8) competes with the 550(V8).
This discussion has been closed.