Monthly Update for April 2018 - 2017 Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test
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Monthly Update for April 2018 - 2017 Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test
We haven't had our long-term 2017 Tesla Model 3 very long, but the list of issues is growing. Here's a breakdown of everything that went wrong in April.
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Wasn't this supposed to be the car that was less complicated to build? I don't know how anyone can put up with this many problems on any car, much less one that costs 56k!
And I call this review BS because the efficiency they see is 330 wh/mile. That is ridiculous and no where the kind of consumption what I am seeing and in fact every one of the owners in youtube reviews or on Teslamotorsclub forum. I am hard pressed to to go even more than 250 wh/mile and my average is around 235 wh/mile - going with the traffic at 70+ and AC on. I can easily go 330 miles just keeping up with traffic and AC on. That is an amazing amount of range.
Why is it reviews from regular users are mostly stellar and superlative while "automotive experts' come up with all these negative observations? Not saying this particular car did not have any issues, but the point is one car that a reviewer might have had some problems is not reflection of the overall quality of the product.
I have seen and read over a 100 reviews on the internet by regular users. Most of them are gushing about this car. I care about those reviews than paid automotive experts, which mostly I find highly biased
Door handles and the button to open the door from inside, only takes a day to get used to it. Just because it is different doesn't mean it is somehow bad. iPhone works perfectly fine as key fob, and some Androids do have problem, but Tesla will fix it. I am beginning to appreciate this no key driving.
Again I would be hardpressed to see anyone with 330 wh/mile consumption unless they are deliberately lead footed all the time.
I honestly don't care what one sock puppet with the screen name M3tesla has to say about his or her car. Edmunds is the regular user.
And I relied on Tesla's very fair long term review of the Model S when I bought my first Tesla (I've owned more than one). They pulled no punches and allowed me to buy the car knowing exactly what I was in for, and they were quite accurate with their observations.
Bravo, Edmunds, for being honest.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/poll-model-3-efficiency-battery-to-wheels.115353/
More importantly, you're ignoring the real point of their update---this car is very poorly assembled. Perhaps when all of you Musk sycophants are mixing up the grape Kool Aid you all talk about the things you like about the car and conveniently ignore the serious problems, but Edmunds isn't a fanboy site. They are doing a real world LONG TERM review.
Edmunds was one of the first to do a serious long term review of the Model S and they disclosed the good, the bad and the ugly, and all of those things turned out to be things that many other owners experienced (see, e.g., the drive unit replacements and the alignment problems).
Take a deep breath, realize that no one is out to get your hero Musk and open your eyes to honest reviewing of the car. It would be in your best interest to focus on getting Tesla to fix the problems Edmunds is finding rather than attacking Edmunds for having "BS" reviews.
20 thousand miles of hard driving? Are you kidding? Does that represent a genuine use case of how this car will be driven by a typical owner? I can also take any car, like a Honda Accord, to track every day and show how everything is falling apart and how poor the mileage is.
I am not saying the problems what Edmunds saw in their car were all made up. But you can't only take their review as gospel and as an accurate indication of the quality and ignore the hundreds of reviews that have come from "real" users.
Sycphants, fanboy, Tesla KoolAid, acolytes... You seem to have an hatred for anything Tesla. No wonder you are latching onto a negative review. Confirmation bias ?
I trust Edmunds more than I trust "hundreds of reviews" by fanboys who tell you that the price of innovation is putting up with lies and poorly constructed products.
Edmunds hit the nails on the heads with their long term tests of the Model S and Model X. That's a lot better track record than you and your kool aid drinks have, Electroman.
And note that I said I bought a Model S as a result of Edmunds very thorough long term review of that car. Hardly a hatred for Tesla. Just a hatred for trolls who try to attack honest long term reviews.
I took delivery a week ago (VIN 14xxx) and my software rev was 2018.18.2 and I have experienced the blank backup screen once, but none of the other problems Edmunds has reported. Since then, the car has received an update to 2018.18.3 (automatically downloaded overnight, no service visit required) and I have experienced no problems in the few days since.
My Model 3 has been averaging 235 wh/mile over a total of 210 miles (18" Aero wheels and Michelin MXM4 tires @ 42 psi cold). Driving includes city streets, freeway cruises at 70 mph, and twisty road drives with occasional full acceleration runs 0 to 60 mph. I don't doubt that Edmunds Model 3 is averaging 336 wh/mi, I'm just in the dark as to why.
I hope this sharing of personal experience helps people calm down a bit and adds to the data people can use to form their own opinion.
oh, and both cars are at an average of 228 watts er mile. If you get get 330 watts per mile, you must have your foot all the way on the pedal up an endless steep hill.
The complaints about the systems powering up message and actual power up sound of the contactors seems like the reviewer made no effort to actually understand what was going on, and instead decided that it was a problem. It is not. That message and clunk of the main contactor happen in less time than it takes for a gas engine to turn over, and with much less noise and vibration. All in all, a non-issue.
Given that the Model X is by far the worst car in terms of reliability, I don't have high hopes for the Model 3. TrueDelta will probably have stats in a couple of months.
For comparison's sake, here are a few examples how Tesla compares. Repair trips per 100 cars:
2016 Model X: 81 trips
2017 Model S: 62
2015 Fiat 500: 34
2016 Audi A7/S7: 11
I would take a 100 owner reviews than one 'professional' review. Ultimately cars are bought based on peer feedback from friends and relatives.
Instead, Tesla produced their bread-and-butter car with first adopters in mind, expecting that buyers would be willing to pay $50k+ for the first release, and then deal with unnecessary oddities like weird door handles, cruise and wiper controls on a display, shoddy build quality, and unfinished software. I'm certain that Mr Musk has micromanaged everything from design to production, handcuffing his people, so that the simple EV that we hoped for can't actually be built by Tesla.
It's clear that Tesla hasn't learned the lessons from the Model X, despite their statements to the contrary.
Except for the usual range and battery degradation issues in Leafs, my 12 Leaf was perfect. I understand the EV lifestyle, and was willing to pay a little more to get the Model 3. But I cancelled in March 2018, after waiting nearly 2 years as a Day 1 reservation holder. The $50k price was too dear, the reports of build quality too many, I'm uncomfortable with the center display, and I feared constant service issues while my nearest Tesla shop is an hour away.
People buying this car are NOT first adopters. They want a perfect vehicle, as many of them are upgrading from a Camry or Accord to take a chance on Tesla. Reports like this do not help EV adoption. Instead of calling 'fake news' on Edmunds' experience, the True Believers should accept that these problems are real for some people. For example, lots of people have good experience with the Fiat brand, but enough don't so the brand is tainted in the public eye. My one experience with Honda was so terrible I may never own another one again.
Let's be clear here: Displays are nothing new in cars, and Tesla of all companies should know how to build a large automotive display. To experience display issues in the Model 3 is totally unacceptable. People might understand if there were issues with the cutting-edge technology, but displays and vanity mirrors are not cutting edge. As for the display, I'm convinced the wiper and cruise functions will become a safety issue due to distracted driving. Muscle memory won't be useful for setting wiper speed and cruise on a display, and several reviewers have noted how they must remove their eyes from the road in order to make these adjustments. That's crazy.
How about some regular door handles on the inside and out? These complicated designs add nothing to function or safety; all they do is scream "I'm different, so I must be better!".
https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-review-falls-short-of-consumer-reports-recommendation/
What does the Elon Musk Fanclub have to say about this? Another "BS review", I suppose?
Average Energy (Wh/mi) is -- the meter readout in the car itself. We record this value each time we plug in. Average energy is the rate at which the car consumes electricity from the battery. Our average "Average Energy" reading is 254.4 Wh/mi. This is not a weighted average, but is instead a simple average of all of our readings.
Lifetime Average Consumption (kWh/100) is fundamentally different in a way that explains why it is significantly higher (worse) than Average Energy. The unit here is kWh used per 100 miles driven, which is the standard used by the EPA for rating the consumption of electric cars and PHEV. But the difference is more than just the decimal point shift brough about by multiplying by 100 miles and dividing by 1000 watts to adjust the unit. This measurement is based on the actual amount of electricity needed to REPLACE the electricity the car withdrew from the battery. It is measured at the power panel upstream of the charge station -- which is the same as the number of kWh you'd get charged for on your electric bill.
This difference is not insignificant. Charging a battery generates heat. On-board battery cooling systems must be run to control it, and the energy required to run those systems is part of the metered inflow. There's resistance in the charge cord, too - you've felt them get hot, right? That's more energy lost. The total of these losses varies from charge station to charge station, but we've owned about a dozen EVs (three of them Tesla products), and we can say that charging losses can range between 20 to 30 percent. It's like spilling 2 or 3 gallons of gas on the ground (and paying for it) for every 10 gallons that makes it into the tank. So if you're a Tesla owner and you think the Average Energy reading describes your car's consumption, think again. Your're low by about 25%.
Now, the EPA knows that all of this rightly counts charging losses as vehicle consumption, and their rating of 27 kWh/100 miles does include such losses. It is worth noting that the data for range and consumption ratings comes from Tesla-conducted tests and Tesla-submitted documents that the EPA reviews, not tests conducted by the EPA themselves. That's the way it goes with most cars, EV or not.
So if you take our average "Average Energy of 254.4 Wh/mi and tweak it into kWh/100, you get 25.4. Next, let's add a 25% charging loss onto that by multiplying by 125%. Care to guess the result? It's 31.75 kWh/100, a near-exact match of our Lifetime Average Consumption number that was generated by measuring electricity flow through the HPWC. (31.7 was indeed the real number - the 33.6 that was published was a typo based on incomplete data entry in our April calculation spreadsheet.)
So our 254.4 Wh/Mi Average energy equals 31.7 kWh/100 after you add in 25% for charging losses.
But none of this explains why our average of 31.7 is so far off the Model 3's 27 kWh/100 rating. I have a hard time with this, but it follows a pattern established by our Model S and Model X test cars because they fell short of their ratings, too. Other EVs (just about ALL other EVs, I might add) have proven to be very accurately or even conservatively rated. I've easily beaten the range and consumption ratings of the Bolt, the Volt, the 2nd-gen Leaf, the eGolf, the BMW i3, the Fiat 500e, the Spark EV -- I could go on. I have driven 70 miles on a Volt (rated at 53) and 334 miles on a Bolt (rated at 238 miles.) But I have never even matched a Tesla rating using the same driving techniques. I'm not saying I can't, but it's not as easy. Just look at the Leaf and the Bolt LT data. Both are currently beating their ratings, and both are being driven by the same crew of Edmunds staffers.
How do we get our kWh data for our EVs? The non-Tesla's use our chargepoint station, which has a factory-installed meter. But the Telsa is filled with our own private Tesla HPWC, which is not a metered device like our Chargepoint station. To recitfy this we have had a meter installed by a certified commercial electrician, and it is a "revenue grade" meter that is tamper proof. Our drivers record the before and after kWh readings (the meter can't be rezeroed 'cause its revenue grade) when they plug in and unplug, and we subtract one from the other to determine the amount of electricity that was dispensed to refill the battery after the car was driven a known number of miles.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
"Performance
"This car is a joy to drive on Angeles Crest Highway, and I don't say that lightly. Angeles Crest is a famously demanding road that winds up into the San Gabriel Mountains north of Los Angeles. You need brakes, power and a taut, balanced chassis to do it right. The Model 3 has it all. Body roll is minimal, the brakes don't complain, the steering is gratifyingly precise, and there are gobs of instant torque on tap. Plus, the regenerative braking function means you use the actual brake pedal less often."
Then something doesn't add up and I agree you might be right that there could possibly be some BS, but not sure it is necessarily who you would like to place the blame on.
Josh, I have a new(ish) 3 series and it's built quite a bit better than even the mS and mX Tesla's. My interior has stayed together, it's been reliable, it puts up with track days and the brakes work very well CONSISTENTLY. My radio volume works appropriately, infotainment has never failed me yet, I paid a lot less than a similar M3 with similar performance, have a great warranty, the list goes on.
M3 has a ton of potential, the instant torque of a fully EV drivetrain is intoxicating. But every other car in the class is literally better than the M3 right now. Tesla hasn't learned how to build cars and I certainly can't recommend them to anyone for anything other than "toy".
These vehicles and concepts put forth by Musk have driven the industry forward 10 years maybe more. For that Musk should be commended. However, he's destroying Tesla. He doesn't know how to run a car company and as a whole they are really bad at building cars.
http://teslabears.club/t/tesla-suspension-fatal-flaw-entire-fleet-should-be-grounded
A request: Could you publish the software rev numbers installed when you had the problems reported with the car? This is important in tracking progress at resolving these bugs and noting if they have been fixed. For instance, my car also had the black reverse camera screen with Rev 2018.18.2 but does not with the Rev 2018.18.3 which was automatically installed one night last week.
Note to those who complain about wipers and cruise control operation via the touch screen: The wipers still operate a single wipe when the button on the end of the turn signal stalk is pressed and released, and still do a washer squirt and several wipes when the button is held down. The wiper button press now brings up the wiper control screen automatically with a larger touch icon for Auto operation in addition to the other speed control icons. I find this easy to use.
The cruise control is now the right scroll wheel on the steering wheel, and is scroll up for increase speed and scroll down for decrease speed, left for increase following distance and right for decrease following distance. Also, a fast scroll up or down changes speed in 5 mph blocks. And you can set an offset from posted speed up to 11 mph so that when you activate the cruise control (single pull downward on the right stalk) and are near the speed limit, then your offset cruise speed is implemented. Example: I set + 2mph on my cruise so when traveling at around 35 mph the cruise implements 37 mph when the stalk is pulled.
In a car that is so controlled by software, repeating shortcomings from reviews of outdated software revs is misleading. That is why I'm asking people to state the software rev related to their complaints in these comments. Thank you.
It is worth noting a couple of things about the Model 3 versus the Model S and Model X. Both of those had huge energy graphs, which I really liked and played with all the time. It really gamified driving effociently, and I think the lack of that on the Model 3 cannot be overlooked. The Volt, Bolt, Leaf and others have cool driver coaching feedback displays that reward smooth driving, too. But the Model 3 doesn't apart from the tiny Wh/mi meter. Also, the S and X's graph had a thin line that represented your target if you wanted to get the rated range. I think it was 310 on our Model S P85, and 330 on our Model X P90D. What is the goal line for the Model 3? Without a graph, I'm not sure. But our data suggests it might be 210 or 215. We're averaging 254.4 because about 20 people drive this car in all sorts of ways - nicely randomized, I think - so we're not hitting the Wh/mi average needed to achieve the rated range. But if I driv it again and can drive in traffic at 180 for a full charge event, I'm sure I can exceed the range.
Also, we routinely set our car to charge to 90%, not 100%, so the effective rated range target we're gunning for is 90% of 310 miles, which is 276 miles.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
Model S and X can map different functions to their right scroll wheel on the steering wheel as well. I have my right scroll wheel setup for fan speed, or temperature, depending on weather and if I want to let auto climate control do it's thing. That way I don't have to take my hands off the wheel, or look at the screen to adjust climate control. Clicking the wheel also turns climate on and off.
There is nothing exclusively controlled on the Model S or X touchscreen that is essential to the functioning of the car. All the common features can be set to either automatic (no button press at all), or controlled with buttons on the steering wheel.
Unfortunately, the Model 3 software appears to be unfinished, as you cannot map these functions to the right scroll wheel. I assume this will come in a free over the air software update. Disappointing they didn't ship with this basic functionality that is present on their other models.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
Here's a way to test that: Set the acceleration mode in the Model 3 to Chill for one or two charge cycles and compare energy consumption to the Standard acceleration setting. My guess is that energy consumption will go down significantly and complaints from some drivers will go way up. I wonder who they are? :<)
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/10-most-satisfying-cars-owner-satisfaction/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/01/tesla-model-3-most-loved-car-in-usa/
To learn about satisfaction, Consumer Reports has collected survey data from our annual survey on more than half a million vehicles. Our subscribers provide great insights into their satisfaction by answering one simple question: If they had it to do all over again, would they definitely buy or lease the same model?
After spending a couple months reading reviews, talking to friends who are Tesla owners, and doing my own research, I decided to take the plunge. I can honestly say the car is a dream to drive and brings a smile to my face every time I get in. Previous/current Honda, Acura, BMW and Volvo driver. It took me a day to get used to the door handle design and user interface.