Fuel Economy and Oil Dependency

tomcatt630

The imports are successfull since they made quality smaller cars, so to say that only big trucks are 'what Americans want' is one-sided.

Get over it, full-sized SUV's are not 'the car of the future' as some thought in 1998. :P

stever

Some $79 million in incentives to an unknown start-up company has been committed by the state of Louisiana. Who know if people are ready to buy "a high-quality, environmentally friendly and fuel-efficient car for the U.S. market."

Since T. Boone is involved, we may see a solar roof, wind turbines in the fins and the ICE fueled by natural gas.

Miata Designer Matano, T. Boone Pickens Part of Start-up Car Company (AutoObserver)

hpmctorque

According to Automotive News, the Chevy Camaro has been outselling the Honda Insight. Now granted, a couple of months does not a trend make, and if gasoline prices continue rising the reverse might be true. However, these early results could be a warning for the Obama Administration regarding which vehicles Americans really prefer. What it suggests is that more people lust for a Camaro than an Insight. Another way to interpret this is that excitement trumps appliance-like transportation modules.

bpizzuti

I'm sure Camaro outsells Corvette too, does that mean that no one wants Corvettes, and companies should give up on light-bodied advanced sports cars?

I think that probably means, among other things, that there's more Camaros than Insights available for sale, for one thing. Without a lot more auxiliary data, making a claim based solely on raw sales is pretty useless. It might also outsell Mazda3, but that might only be because Mazda can't make any more of them, for instance.

kernick

I think that probably means, among other things, that there's more Camaros than Insights available for sale,

But manufacturers base the number and size of their factories (and shifts) on what the market for similar vehicles has been, and data collected from prospective buyers. So they have a pretty good idea of whether a vehicle will sell 25,000 or 100,000. There are probably a handful of (specialty) vehicles right now that can't be built to market-demand; every other factory would love to make and sell more vehicles.

bpizzuti

But manufacturers base the number and size of their factories (and shifts) on what the market for similar vehicles has been, and data collected from prospective buyers.

Uhh, we're talking about GM here. They base their manufacturing on having to keep from idling UAW workers. :shades:

I remember when the mazda3 was selling out. Huge success, despite not outselling Civic. Why? They didn't have the capacity to make more.

Probably a better measure is percentage of sales, amount of time they're spending on dealer lots, etc. I'd like to see that data before deciding "Americans hate hybrids and want RWD muscle-cars." Especially since we could have determined that the whole time the Mustang was around.

lokki

The Chevy Camaro has been outselling the Honda Insight. ....

The truth is that a lot of guys are buying them because they believe that this is the Last Hurrah for the Camaro.

They can't be sure that there will be a 2010 Camaro. If you want one and can at all afford it, better to get one now.

hpmctorque

hpmctorque

I think the Camaro that's currently in the showrooms is a 2010.

If there's a next generation Camaro in, say. 2015 or so, it'll be smaller and lighter, but such a car may not qualify as a real Camaro for some pony car fans. Personally , I wish the new Camaro had the dimensions of the original (1967?), but the designers were limited by having to use the Holden platform. For me, the new one's excessive size is a deal breaker, but I think I'm in the minority.

harrychezt

hpmctorque

According to an article in the December 1 issue of the New York Times...

"The Environmental Protection Agency said Monday that it would probably increase the amount of ethanol that gasoline retailers could blend into ordinary fuel, to 15 percent, if tests established that the blend would not damage cars.

The maximum ethanol blend is now 10 percent, except for cars specially equipped to handle higher blends. The agency said it was likely to approve the increase to 15 percent next summer, perhaps for use only in cars of the 2001 model year and later."

If this happens, who wins, who loses and why? Well, the obvious winners are the farmers and the companies involved in ethanol production and marketing, but how about motorists? Would you choose the 15% ethanol blend over the 10% or 0%, even if the price were the same? What if the 15% blend was 5 cents cheaper per gallon than the 10%?

andys120

Ethanol is essentially a scam propagated by the farm lobby to benefit growers of corn.
It contains less energy than gasoline and, without taxpayer subsidies, is more expensive than gas.

There's a good chance that fuel containing 15% ethanol would corrode gaskets and seals on today's automobiles creating serious problems in today's cars (excepting those few configured to run "Flex Fuels".

No, I am not interested in running E 15 in my car.

bolivar

The EPA, whoever, needs to admit this whole ethanol process is a failure.

Every auto I own now gets at least 10% lower milage.

My 27mpg has dropped to 25 (2007 Corvette).
My 19mpg has dropped to 17 (2005 Honda Ridgeline truck).
My 25mpg has dropped to 23 (2005 Deville).

There should be a national stink being made about the drop in milage effecting millions of cars across the USA.

gagrice

Your experience parallels my own. The ethanol costs me twice. Once when I subsidize the growing and processing of the corn. And when I buy it only to get 10% lower mileage. It is one of the biggest scams the US Government has bought into.

hpmctorque

I agree that ethanol is bad for all of us that aren't involved in raising and transporting corn, or ethanol production, distribution and marketing. That's a whole lot of folks that are being hurt compared to the beneficiaries. Whether it's a 10% or 15% blend, it's bad legislation. The politicians that ethanol this should be voted out of office.

Our best hope is the possibility that cheaper raw materials than corn will eventually be used, such as saw grass (whatever the heck that is).

berri

You forgot that ethanol also drives up our food costs. Corn is the most common sweetener and also a primary source of livestock feed. The Brazilians have shown that sugar cane actually converts more efficiently than corn, but sugar in this country is tied up in the southern lobby just as corn is midwest politics. Eventually, sawgrasses may be the answer.

However, if you want to lower oil costs right now, the most effective tool would be to reduce the Wall Street speculating and excess leverage. Make investors liable to either sell, or take delivery of all the oil they are speculating (same goes for gold, copper, etc.). Oops - that's the northeast lobby!

I agree, I don't want that 15% crap in my vehicles and don't trust that the testing will be fair or unbiased either. Money and special interests talk unfortunately!

euphonium

"Pacific Pride" which is a cardlock facility offer Premium gasoline without any Ethanal & that is the only petrol I put in the 66 Mustang GT & 77 SeaRay.

The 90's Ford products seem to handle the 10% crap O K, but the mileage is down.

So who do we thank and bow to for having more Ethanal to muck around with? :sick:

hpmctorque

Yes, part of the cost of the ethanol program is that it increases the cost of corn and corn substitutes, and meat. So, yeah, we pay more at the grocery store as well as at the pump.

From what I understand - and I've read a lot about this - speculation, for all the talk about it, has relatively little impact on energy prices, except maybe in the very short term. It has virtually no impact long term. Supply and demand are the big drivers of price per barrel. Of course, taxes have a major impact at the pump.

As for sugar cane, considering the number and types of vehicles that we have, compared with Brazil, and the fact that we don't grow as much sugar as they do, sugar cane isn't the answer for us. It could be a small part of the answer, but not a significant part.

hpmctorque

berri

You've got to be careful how the articles define speculation. Its really the leverage that goes with it that causes the problem. People can buy commodities for cents to the dollar. If the bet goes south they lose the money they put into it, but don't have to pony up the full value of the commodity or take delivery. The impact is inflationary. Kind of like a lot of those low/no down mortgages that drove up housing prices. How else do you justify almost $80 oil while there are tankers and storage facilities sitting idle drowning in the stuff right now? Fact is, China and India are not currently sucking up everything being pumped on to the market despite the hype. Same goes for copper.

johnnymnemonic

Hi,

How about maintenace wise hows ur jetta holding up?

thanks

gagrice

Did you read the post you responded to? I recommended a Jetta Wagon to someone that was looking for economy without the huge premium on the hybrids. I have never owned a Jetta, and probably will not. The Passat TDI that I did own was less costly for maintenance than my current Toyota. I sold it to someone that wanted it more than I did. Try selling a car for $3000 more than you paid for it new sometime and you will understand why I sold it. I don't ever get attached to things. The right offer comes along and my current ride is gone. Getting the most bang for your buck is not necessarily just at the pump.

Welcome to the forum

jose27

There are lots of company who are launching the fuel economy vehicle and its a requirement of now a days.

drivinginsocal

I found a way to use the AC less often even during hot days. Say your car is parked in the garage than the car it is still cool. You can run the front windshield defroster with the recirculating option on and the air hitting the windshield will become very cool. It will keep the car very cool for a long time so you do not need to turn on the AC. I did this trick and was able to drive to Vegas in a July morning without turning on the AC. Sometimes even if the car is hot you can cool off the car with the AC first and once it is cool turn on the front wind shield defroster and when it is cool turn off the AC.

nippononly

Unfortunately, most cars built in the last 15 years run the A/C automatically when the defroster is running, to dry up the mist on the windshield. This is true even though the green A/C light on the HVAC panel is not lit. It is likely that this is true for your car, which is why it stayed so cool that day out in the desert. You actually were running the A/C (even though the A/C switch may have been in the 'off' position and the A/C light was not lit), and directing the cold air to the windshield where it then dispersed around the interior of the car.

rpierce3