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Chevrolet Malibu vs. Toyota Camry vs. Honda Accord
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Comments
As "Erin" said earlier, "The LE is the quintessential Camry, the one most people buy..." I completely agree. I personally didn't care for the basic styling of the LE trim, and it was the little things that SE added (such as alloy wheels - what a concept, and sharp IMHO body kit) that made me pull for it. The fact that alloy wheels are not standard on the Camry LE's still baffle me. $20,000 for a vehicle and no alloy wheels, give me a break Toyota.
I'm actually surprised the little 2.4L - 158-hp was proved so quick in Edmund's tests, compared to the more potent engines in the Malibu and Accord -- I didn't think it would even compete.
Good review, although I'm certainly not the typical Camry buyer at 23 when I purchased, if the SE trim model didn't exist I wouldn't even have considered it.
Now, almost a year later - the playing field has changed dramatically and the Accord and Malibu look to be excellent cars. I can't argue about the Malibu's interior -- definately better than my Camrys and Accord -- too bad the value of the car will drop like a rock. But the interior of the Malibu does certainly deserve some praise.
After reading that in Edmunds' 2008 V6 Comparison test that was published about three weeks ago and seeing the car put in last place (which I felt it didn't deserve and needed to test drive the SE version instead of the XLE version) ... I picked up Motor Trend's February 2008 issue to find a comparison test between the Malibu/Accord/Camry/Altima.
To my surprise, especially considering just a few months ago (Oct. 2007 issue) the magazine praised the Accord as the better vehicle over the Camry. However, the Camry won the comparison between the three other cars, with the Malibu, Accord, and Altima coming in at 2,3, and 4 - respectively.
The Camry is not perfect, nor is the Altima, Accord, or Malibu. But it's good to see better competition from the U.S. Like I said in the earlier post, the Malibu's interior looks excellent. Unfortunately, as Edmunds doesn't point out the models that start out around $20,000 or (19,9xx) is rather plain looking with plastic wheel covers, and a pretty generic looking interior.
One thing this review and especially the comparison of V6 family sedans made me realize is that the best thing to do is take them with a grain of salt. Test drive all the cars, and make a decision for yourself. With all four (or three in this case) -- I think either one is a fine choice. Each one has an advantage/disadvantage -- and look through Consumer Reports for any trouble reports and messageboards and you should be fine.
Certain things that have been brought up in this message board is a major consideration for many new buyers is resale value - which the Chevrolet would drop pretty bad, with Honda leading the pack and Toyota coming in second. The entire talk of "if GM keeps making cars like the Malibu, then the resale value will come up..." while true, is non-sense.... people don't purchase a vehicle and take into consideration what the resale value "might" be, if the manufacturer makes better vehicles.
Take the Hyundai brand for instance, I personally think they make terrific looking vehicles and with their warranty and great bargain for those on a budget, especially when you look at what they used to make. However, resale value is still pretty poor, despite great reviews for the Sonata and other vehicles (Santa Fe, Veracruz) -- it still loses a lot of money once it comes to sell it.
Still, all in all -- aside from Consumer Reports which tends to be a no nonsense "here are the facts" review --- take other review with a grain of salt and test drive all the cars in the segment until you find one you're really comfortable with.
As Toyota globel sale is almost pass GM, world's biggest auto manf., it looks like the transmission problem does not borther the Camry buyers. Maybe is a isolated problem on small portion of the Camry line; otherwise, nobody will buy the Camry. Don't know why Moter Trend put Camry in Not recommend section while Lexus ES350 which use the same transmission is still in recommend section.
I'm willing to bet you can't find any facts to back that statement up. My last Accord was with me for 12 years, and my current will probably be with me at least that long.
Why is is so critical to berate the resale value of the Malibu on day 1 of it's existence? Doesn't it have actual hardware flaws that can be degraded instead? Who can show any data one way or the other about resale value?
Is there an argument floating around out there that a better car can be worse due to poor resale value? I think so.
A Camaro and a Malibu are totally different. Depending on the model of Camaro the older cars are many time worth more than a newer model (comparing apples to oranges).
resale value? A major concern for buyers of accords and camry's because they know the cars are so boring they need to get rid of them soon after buying.
This is the post I was replying to, when I said you don't have to "get rid of them soon". By the way, what makes a Malibu less boring than an Accord? My father has a Malibu, and it is the epitome of boring.
If I look to the right on my screen, the Malibu sits at 9.3 and the Accord sits at 9.0. 9.3 must be the new epitome of boring.
A few people feel they can look into the future on resale value. If so, I need some help with my 401K and stock portfolio so that I only hold high return items. :P
Looking into the future based on past value doesn't work for Enron workers who held huge amounts of company stock, e.g. Toyota owners of certain cars with transmission behavior problems and sludging have cars that are down in value. So they bought a car with high resale value but CR downgraded Camry; ooops, sorry about your car value.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Hmm...The Malibu has 21 reviews to the Accord's 118 (as of 12:30pm EST, 1/16/08).
I'd be more interested if the Malibu had 118 reviews to the Accord's 118 or the Accord's 21 to the Malibu's 21. Otherwise, you're not exactly comparing Apples-to-Apples, given the fact that the mean average review could either go up or down the more the Malibu and Accord (and Camry, for that matter), are reviewed.
I can't look into the future, but I can predict future resale value. I predict the Accord will retain a higher percentage of it's MSRP than the Malibu will. You don't have to agree.
Looking into the future based on past value doesn't work for Enron workers who held huge amounts of company stock, e.g. Toyota owners of certain cars with transmission behavior problems and sludging have cars that are down in value. So they bought a car with high resale value but CR downgraded Camry; ooops, sorry about your car value.
Honda, and Toyota for that matter, are not Enron. I doubt the Camry resale value will take a big hit by this. Why not? Because normal people (who don't spend time on internet forums talking about cars) don't even know about these problems, and will still pay a good price for a used Camry. The Accord has had some problems in the past, but Honda will usually make it right, and keep the customers happy. The percentage of Accords that go to fleet sales is historically low, and I don't see that changing. I would not count on low fleet sales for the Malibu. Fleet sales affect resale values also.
Apples to oranges will be when someone says the new malibu will have the reliability or resale value of the previous model, that it shares NOTHING with except the 100,000 warranty.
Yes, but how many years would you have to wait, for that problem not to exist? Weren't the same displays used in later years? You had at least as many problems with your 06, didn't ya? I hardly think one problem (covered under extended warranty at 50k miles) is a reason to wait 3 or 4 years to buy a car.
I can honestly say that I've never heard of the LCD problem in a 2005-2007 model, while I've heard numerous reports from 2003 and 2004 owners on this board.
LCD display, NUMEROUS (not exaggerating) rattles, headliner that had to be taken out and put back in, etc. After that, I'd wait until at least year two if I didn't "NEED" to buy a car at the moment. Deals are typically better anyway.
I'm not really arguing the fact that you can get relatively perfect 1st year runs and problematic 4th year runs, but statistically, it works the other way around. Your car having a stereo failure just helps prove my point.
Toyota's V6 Camry and 5.7L Tundra are other examples, as are the Civic with the "lug-bug" that was in several 06s but has since disappeared for 07 and 08, Odyssey vans with the vibration/resonance/droning issue were prevalent in 2005, but I rarely read about newer versions with them (my aunt's 2005 has that problem, had recalled airbag sensors, a misaligned rear bumper, and a windshield whistle at 50 MPH). This new-for-2005 model was built in 2004 - in other words, before any bugs were worked out.
Again, this isn't the case for every built vehicle in a model line, but mathematically, earlier models are typically the ones with the bugs. It's just statstically proven - viewing CR's reports will show that.
http://www.gm.com/corporate/investor_information/sales_prod/">link title
WSJ Comparison
I don't believe the WSJ article is good, helpful or informative. It is among the most subject pieces I've ever seen on the subject. The writer certainly is not a member of a forum like this one and is oblivious to the treatment you get when you start espousing opinion as fact. A large portion of the article is nothing but subjective junk on issues about which there absolutely is no right answer. For example, does the crease on the side panels of the Accord look like the result of a crash with a guard rail? Acura doesn't think so, nor do the makers of the 3 or 5 series BMW.. . . .nor does Honda or the 400,000+ people who will buy the 08 Accord in the next year. Just because you write for the WSJ doesn't mean you don't have your head up your [non-permissible content removed]. I wish the author were a member of this forum -- it would be fun to write a scathingly sarcastic response to the dribble he penned. . . . he made himself a very easy target!
This trend is exactly what I said years back about GM's offerings and where they improved things, it would always be that they don't have this one feature that the XXXmobile has that the writer likes (and that's okay) but what's not okay is that the car is just junk because it doesn't have this or doesn't have that or doesn't do 0-90 in 6 seconds--as if 99.9% of people drove their car like that.
Come on. Malibu is giving them some competition again. The writer is doing what ever other car writer does: he's giving his perception of and his opinion of the Malibu and Accord.
Welcome to the club.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That's one reason I thought it was a 'good' article, sure to get a reaction. Sure, some may disagree with opinions, it interesting to hear them blamed on 'bias'.
I have be careful about saying I'd never own a certain brand. Long ago I swore I'd never own another (big three brand) and I ended up winning one in a contest.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The problem with that is when the cars are re-designed, your car suddenly feels 'old', as our 2003 Odyssey did when they were re-designed in 2005. When you buy a car earlier in the cycle, it looks and feels fresh longer.
My car felt fresh to me since it had a modestly restyled front-end, a completely restyled rear-end with cool LED taillamps (I know, not a biggie, but a unique touch that few other vehicles utilize). The best part is all of the bugs that came with 2003 models (problematic LCD on the stereo system, rattle problems) are less prevailent on later models, including my rattle-free 2006 model.
Not all first-year models will have problems, and not all late-run models will be flawless, however.
I have thought about other brands like VW, or Acura, but I gotta say I love my Honda. The engine is a piece of art, I pushed my 4cyl and it really lights up, and its sooo smooth doing it, without even going that high in RPM's. I will be sticking with the 4cyl accord. As my mileage will be up on my lease, I'll have to trade, and more than likely it'll be an 08 Accord. But, with other fun cars out there, it does make me want to look at others. Many say, that once you go honda, you typically stay with honda. I thought about camry, but missed the honda drive. Malibu has a long way to go for me. $26k for a malibu? Wow?
BUT, at the same time, I love my car, I almost don't want to get rid of it, But I miss my sunroof. I love it.
Wherein lies a perception issue...people associating "Malibu" with something they should be able to buy for $15k max, because it's a lowly, cheap American bargain ride. But it isn't.
Model to model, the equipment, options, etc. are very much like your typical Accord LX-->EX spread, including engines.
Yet, again, the Honda addicts and Toyota loyalists, often without ever stepping outside those dealerships, automatically assume anything else is subpar. But it isn't.
None of the cars in the class are perfect, Malibu included. But it's just being completely aloof to imagine one new model is so below what you think your expectations are to right it off.
GM obviously, and admittedly, did not have an impressive package at all in the past, especially the '97-03 models, and then had the right guts but didn't style or refine them properly from '04-07. Now they've hit the mark, almost entirely, and many people are returning to the light...but others just can't do it yet.
When my mother recently wanted a sedan--and the Malibu was #1--she came to me, and I never would have told her to go with that choice unless I had every confidence in it. I even thought momentarily maybe have her try an Accord, etc., but she wanted great style, quality, refinement, and features galore and the Malibu fit that to a T.
Point is...yet again, how much more will people continue to, time and time again, automatically write off something like GM based on past ideas. If anything, they're now up so high, and with so many great cars, and it's companies like Honda and Toyota slipping more and more lately...Honda with great styling issues and dumbing down of quality and bloating designs, and Toyota the kings of blandness and really with some quality and poor driving characteristics. Loyalists will always remain (not only to Honda and Toyota, but also GM, etc.), but so many people miss out on so many fantastic vehicles...simply "because" of old thoughts.
First, while you and I know the 08 model is tons better than the mediocre 97-07 models, I'm not sure the general public really knows that. GM is going to have to heavily and carefully advertise these cars.
Second, These cars need to be reliable, or their credibility will falter. CR has the Aura XE as above average but the Aura XR as below average. GM better iron out the gremlins quickly before they get the reputation of being unreliable. While the Camcords' reliability has waxed and waned some, overall they have been reliable for many years, and the public perceives them as being reliable.
The Accord topped the Altima, Malibu, Sonata, Camry, Fusion and Avenger in that order.
First, while you and I know the 08 model is tons better than the mediocre 97-07 models, I'm not sure the general public really knows that. GM is going to have to heavily and carefully advertise these cars.
Second, These cars need to be reliable, or their credibility will falter. CR has the Aura XE as above average but the Aura XR as below average. GM better iron out the gremlins quickly before they get the reputation of being unreliable. While the Camcords' reliability has waxed and waned some, overall they have been reliable for many years, and the public perceives them as being reliable.
All very true, and I heartily agree.
Perception is still the biggest hill to climb, and only product after product after product that is impressive on all accounts will tackle it.
Which brings up another point. In reality, even in the not so distant days of GM being characterized by mish-mash designs, cheaper than cheap interiors, etc., the real-world reliability of most products was as good if not better than the "vaunted" class standards. Yet, because of those former points and constant reviews that failed to ever bring the point up, it was never heard or believed.
And as said, for Honda and Toyota, it's almost the exact opposite. For so many years, the products have been largely spot on in the important regards, and more important to some, the ratings they received in reviews. NOW, at this point, for instance, Toyota can pump out Camry's with overtly low grade interiors and even--as now so many reviews have pointed out--large panels misaligned, obnoxious noises, etc. AND drive qualities that are just depressing. But in reality, it still doesn't totally matter...a Camry is a Camry, and based on the past, that's always a guaranteed strong choice to many. Same thing with the Accord.
With cars like the Malibu, even though the reliability was largely always there, missing the points on finishing, looks, etc. put extra nails in the coffin, and now it's still very hard--even if there were 1000 glowing professional reviews alone--for many to believe that and sign their checks to it.
And then we also have the juggernaut of rags such as Consumer Reports, which many crowds base every purchase in their lives on...but that, in reality, aren't fully reality. But regardless, that reality is different for everyone...in every regard.
Simply? Things, for example with GM, have to be spot on and perfect repeatedly and for long-term, and as such for a while, before tides can fully change. I get that, as aggravating as it is.
Is there anyone new (or old) around here still in the process of actively comparing and shopping the Malibu, Camry, and Accord? Unsure, developing strong opinions, etc. on any?
Was it the center stack and lack of leg/knee room. Was it this curvature of the interior that our previa had (taken from the vette? and used by other automakers too). This is eased on our '04 by use of the adjustable pedals and steering wheel.