When looking for a hitch, don't be fooled by the company name. There are probably only 3 or 4 unique hitch designs available through most retail outlets. However, there are probably 6-8 different companies with their name on a hitch.
Honestly, I forget which companies are paired up. I believe Valley Industries and Drawtite are actually the same company. Hidden Hitch and Reese may be partners, as well. They will often take one hitch design and slap both company names on it. I've even seen them listed with different retail prices at the same web site.
It's no different with U-Haul or other service vendors. I can't keep all the company names straight, but U-Haul simply has a contract with Reese or DrawTite. Even many OEM hitches are just rebadged versions of these popular models. (Though, I don't think that's the case with the current CR-V's hitch.)
You'll get a lot of opinions on this topic. Having had two in carseats for years, the best would be a minivan with sliding doors. Easiest low entry and exit for all stages as they grow, can't beat the extra seats for the other kids and space for trips. Best utilitarian vehicle we've ever had for that stage in our lifes (and kept it for 10 years!).
Car seats, cribs, playpens, parties, a large dog, trips, bookbags, and studying in the car waiting on ballet lessons! Think 2.4 kids and SPACE.
I had the same decision to make... older dog lab. ret... and chose the CRV. WIth the seats tumbled, the back has plenty of room and it's not that high for me to lift him. I would make sure two dogs would fit though.
Congratulations! We just bought the 07 CR-V and love it. Granted we have only had it 3 days. We have a 2 year old son and we also own an 92 accord wagon. Getting him in and out of the accord was back breaking. The CR-V is so much easier and it's a nice peace of mind (safety). We also have a 110 lb mutt and a 75 lb lab. They fit in there no problem. I wouldn't get the element because I think you have to have the front doors open in order to open the back door and that is very difficult when in parking stalls. I also have a Ford F250 SD with that same door set up and it's a nightmare at the store with the baby and the groceries. Even with out the baby it's tough in parking stalls to get things in the back seat. The first 6 months will be taking your child and the carrier out and I personally would go with the CR-V cause it's easier. Your truck has plenty of room for the dogs and baby ;-)
"Here's my question does anyone have experience with both vehicles and an infant... which vehicle is best for loading/unloading a car seat etc.?"
The Element has a max weight limit of 650 lbs, as opposed to the 850 or so of the CR-V (I haven't checked the Gen 3, mine was a 2003). This was a deal killer for me, since it would not haul as much weight as I needed. You might check this out.
It has been stated that the Honda diesel may be made available on the 2008 or 2009 CR-V. This would increase the fuel mileage by as much as 30%. Honda also has the Advanded VTEC (A-VTEC) engine which improves mpg by as much as 13%. Any idea if either of these engines will come to N.A. for 2008 in the CR-V?
I'm wondering about the availability of fuel for the super modern diesels. Seems there was a disclaimer on the gas pump the last time I filled up.
It was one of those pumps with 2 nozzles, One for gas (3 choices) and the other for diesel. The disclaimer said something like "This diesel is not to be used in 2007 vehicles"!
The diesel *might* be available for 2009 or 2010, but not 2008.
The patents for the A-VTEC system are based on an SOHC design. That suggests usage in Honda's V6 engines, not the I4s. Also, Honda has promised the release of A-VTEC with the 2008 Accord. So, even if the CR-V got A-VTEC, it probably wouldn't happen until 2009 or 2010.
Before anyone gets their hopes up for 2009, the mid-model change for the CR-V is scheduled for 2010. That is typically when we'd see major changes like engine upgrades and the more significant content changes.
By the time calendar year 2008 rolls around, we'll be talking about the 2009 model of the CR-V. I assume the poster was talking about the MY 2008 for the CR-V.
While 2008 is the year when we're expected to see the first diesel, there is not reason to expect that Honda will choose the CR-V as the first model to use it. It is far more likely that a higher volume model (Accord) will showcase the engine. Then it will be added to other vehicles in the following years.
As for A-VTEC, I've read nothing concrete about it being offered in both I4 and V6 form. All the buzz suggests that it will be launched with the Accord, which, once again, means the CR-V may get it later. But certainly not the 2008 model year.
Never assume. I said cy as in calender year 2008 which means 9/08 if that helps. The new A vtec 3.5 in the Accord will have at least 275 horsepower and run in the low 14s w/ a manual.
"It was one of those pumps with 2 nozzles, One for gas (3 choices) and the other for diesel. The disclaimer said something like "This diesel is not to be used in 2007 vehicles"! "
I wonder what state you are in. All diesel now sold is supposed to be ultra low sulfur, which goes with the cleaner 2007 and later diesel engines. It sounds like that particular dealer had some of the older diesel.
"While 2008 is the year when we're expected to see the first diesel, there is not reason to expect that Honda will choose the CR-V as the first model to use it. It is far more likely that a higher volume model (Accord) will showcase the engine. Then it will be added to other vehicles in the following years."
Depending on the size of the diesel (I have read 2.2L), it would go well on the CR-V; also, a similar engine is already available in Europe as an option on the CR-V. So it would be easy to implement in the US model. Plus, I think people would accept a diesel SUV more readily than a car - it is more associated in the US consumer with "truck - like" vehicles.
Never assume. I said cy as in calender year 2008 which means 9/08 if that helps. The new A vtec 3.5 in the Accord will have at least 275 horsepower and run in the low 14s w/ a manual.
Aren't you assuming that the Accord will have those numbers?
Thanks for your comments. Even though the CR-V gives fairly good mileage I want it to be even better. The diesel would be perfect, either 2.2 or 2.4 with plenty of torque. The A-VTEC with 13% better performance and mileage would also fit the bill. Figure 30% better mileage with the diesel mpg estimates would be about 27-29 city and 38-40 highway. The A-VTEC would improve to about 24 city and 32-34 highway. I also hope we see these engines sooner and not later!
Your welcome. You could go to Honda UK site and see the performance and mpg differences in the CRV,Accord,and Civic 2.2 diesels. The mpg is imperial mpg. X apprx .83 to get U.S. mpg
"... Plus, I think people would accept a diesel SUV more readily than a car - it is more associated in the US consumer with "truck - like" vehicles."
I'm not on %100 board with the notion of it having trucker appeal.
The buyers who get diesels for their "trucks" are buying 6.7 liter engines and use them for towing horse trailers, yachts, and small third world countries. These buyers would consider the CR-V a nice hood ornament for a diesel truck.
No, the buyers American Honda would be targeting are former buyers of Golfs, Jettas, and other economical diesel options we've seen in the US. Even though diesel has a lengthy history here, this engine will target "early adopters" who are greenies. This is the same crowd that buys up every Prius they can find. (When they're not staging anti-SUV rallies.)
While adding this diesel to the CR-V line is almost a certainty, I have serious doubts that the CR-V will be selected to showcase this new engine. The Accord and Civic will make much better poster children. Once market reaction is measured with those two, the CR-V will follow.
Wrong! Fuel prices are trending up causing buyers to be more fuel conscious. The coming diesels will cut across all buyer profiles! Steve's post was reasonable as buyer's of CRV's probably have more towing needs than the sedan buyer. Further,it stops the gravitation of buyers to the RAV V6 who have light towing needs. The Ridgeline is at the front of the line for the V6 diesel.
My intention is to buy a 2008 at the end of this calender year. My hope is that we have at least the new A-VTEC engine available. Prices would be slightly higher but figure $1500 or so more if it's the diesel. I would prefer the diesel, clean burning with plenty of torque, not to mention the better mpg. Am sure gas prices will continue going up and that's why I want the CR-V to have the most efficient engine possible.
"I wonder what state you are in. All diesel now sold is supposed to be ultra low sulfur, which goes with the cleaner 2007 and later diesel engines. It sounds like that particular dealer had some of the older diesel."
Aren't they phasing in the low-sulfur stuff gradually?
Not to mention even Mercedes has had trouble meeting CARB standards. Their bluetec isn't sold in all 50 states.
VW says they will meet the standards. We'll see, though, because Mercedes said the same thing, yet they failed. I think they were counting on some lobbying to allow their urea injection system, which has to be re-filled periodically (each oil change).
I would not be surprised if Honda can manage, as they tend to be among the best at meeting emissions with creative solutions.
"I would not be surprised if Honda can manage, as they tend to be among the best at meeting emissions with creative solutions."
Honda recently announced a new technology that they hope to deploy within a couple of years. It does not require urea, or any maintenance to the emissions system.
O.K. Honda figured out a way to reduce friction in the upper part of the engine. They call this A VTEC it's available beginning in 9/08. Honda's clean burn diesel does not require any additive to be replaced periodically. You just drive and fill just like a gasser.
In the late 70s, Honda managed to meet new emissions (think pollution) standard without using a catalytic converter with the Civic CVCC.
Basically, everyone else had to use a catalytic converter, Honda didn't. They are heavy and expensive, so it was a very elegant solution for them at the time.
If you look you'll find many more creative solutions Honda has thought of over the years, specifically with a focus on fuel efficiency and clean engines.
Hi, There are 6 Disk Select buttons on the front of the radio. On the bottom of the buttons for Disk 5 and Disk 6, there is more text: "disk- disk+" What is this for?
Also, any notice that you can't turn the radio on or off by steering controls? On my Toyota, if you hold down the Mode button you can turn on or off.
Hmm, right you are. It looks like I loaded up the disc changer one time and then jumped to the wrong conclusions. I usually play 1 disc at a time. Sorry about that.
I now notice the small letters--H, M, and R--on buttons 1,2, and 3 respectively. The manual also says nothing about them.
Read your manual a little more carefully. Setting the clock. Page 206... hour button (preset 1) minute button (preset 2) reset button (preset 3) for EX and EX-L radios.
You can have an aftermarket CD Changer (12 discs) added to your vehicle. If you were to have that installed, you'd use the DISC+ and DISC- to change between them.
Found this on the 2008 Honda Accord fourm. It states nothing about the 2008 CR-V getting the A-VTEC engine. However it shows we will get the 2.2 diesel.
"Wrong! Fuel prices are trending up causing buyers to be more fuel conscious. The coming diesels will cut across all buyer profiles!"
It's not about whether or not diesel appeal will "cut across all buyer profiles". It's about where Honda can get the most bang for the buck from a PR perspective.
Steve was suggesting that appeal would be greater for CUVs, not equal across the markets.
Let's assume you're correct about the appeal of diesel. (Completely fictional example.) For kicks, we'll say 15% of buyers within any segment will be attracted to it. 15% of the Civic or Accord market would mean roughly 45K sales for each vehicle. In the CR-V's market diesel would attract something like 25K buyers. Obviously, either the Civic or Accord would represent better options in terms of getting the word out.
"Further,it stops the gravitation of buyers to the RAV V6 who have light towing needs."
First of all, if fuel economy and towing are such big issues, then why is the CR-V out-selling the I4 and V6 models of the RAV4 combined?
Second, buyers concerned with towing represent something like 5% of the market for small SUVs. Those buying the V6 RAV4 are not towing. They are speeding.
"My intention is to buy a 2008 at the end of this calender year."
Thanks. That's what I figured. I seem to have started a donnybrook over the academic difference between model and calendar year trying to answer your question concerning model year offerings.
Diesels will have an uphill battle in this country due to bad memories from the late 70s and early 80s.
We really don't know how high demand will be because there has never been much of a supply of diesels. Their have been few choices, so how will they do when more choices arrive? It's hard to predict.
The other thing is that diesel costs more than gas does. Around here, it costs more than even premium fuel does. If it's 30% more efficient, but the fuel itself costs 10-20% more, that offsets a large part of any gains, and then of course you have to factor in the extra up-front cost of the diesel.
It will really depend upon the application. I think the CR-V would be an ideal one, though. You'd get more range from a smallish fuel tank, a noticeable drop in fuel costs, and the 2.2l diesel Honda uses is a solid powertrain. All that plus buyers aren't too cost sensitive, so the extra $800 (my guesstimate) for the diesel powertrain would be worth it.
I'm happy we started talking about the future engines. The more efficient the better. I for one want the diesel. Tax is why diesel costs more then gas but in actuality should be cheaper since it's the first product produced at the refinery. Maybe this will change as the diesel becomes accepted. Not sure if N.A. will reach the acceptance as Europe but you never know.
Honda has apparently decided to get the most " bang from it's PR perspective" buck by showcasing AVTEC for one full model year and then following up showcasing Diesel for the next full model year. Honda is not testing the market as you seem to think. They don't "have to get the word out"(Completely ridiculous comment). They already know (unlike you) the market is there. The CRV is outselling the RAV because it is apparently thought to be a superior vehicle. Are you going to tell me you have not seen complaints of "no v6" re the CRV? The diesel addresses that. These diesels are new engines to Honda. They don't want/can't build 200,000 of them in year 1. So they are starting the 4 cylinder diesel in the CRV and 6 cylinder diesel in the Ridgeline and slowly ramping up production so they get everything right. Btw, aren't you the guy who said the CRV would only be moderately successful on the TOV forum?
In Brazil, diesel costs just over half the price of gasoline, it's ridiculous.
My understanding is that diesel is less expensive to produce than gasoline. Don't know about the extra cost of removing the sulfer!
Is it a higher tax than charged on gasoline?
Is it a tax that is attached directly at the pump or is it a tax that is charged the oil companies, and they pass it along?
It does seem ridiculous if charging more taxes on diesel than on gasoline, unless it is simply a way to get the "BIG RIGS" to pay more road tax because they do more damage to the roads, than do passenger vehicles. If that is the case, there are ways to lower the prices for passenger vehicles.
Here are a couple of articles. Probably about 140 hp but could be as high as 170 hp for the diesel
vcarreras, Good articles, thanks!
Didn't see anything about 170HP, but overall the 2.2 diesel appears to be extremely interesting. From the read it seems they have been around a couple of years NOW, so hopefully the bugs are mostly worked out.
Mileage is certainly impressive for a vehicle the size and shape of the CR-V.
Torque of diesel engines never ceases to amaze me.
My lawn mower has a 16HP Kohler gas engine and weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 450 pounds. It has 3 blades and produces a 42" cut. Top speed is about 8 MPH. There is a notch to put the throttle lever in to obtain the best rpm for cutting. I'm guessing about 3600 RPM.. In our field, every one of those horses are put to use when running at about 2-3 mph due to the thick and tall grass. Any faster and the engine will bog.
The Kubota Tractor has a 1500CC diesel that develops 31 horsepower. It weighs 3100+ lbs. Will run 15+ mph. In that same field, pulling a 60" cut 400# finishing mower, or a 700# bush hog at 7-8 MPH seems to have no effect on engine power. Hook it to a stump that isn't ready to come up yet and all four wheels will spin at very low rpm.
The tractor will cut the entire field in less than half the time and use less than half the fuel.
True that gearing has a lot to do with it but I somehow can't imagine a 31 horse gas engine accomplishing the same feats.
Comments
Honestly, I forget which companies are paired up. I believe Valley Industries and Drawtite are actually the same company. Hidden Hitch and Reese may be partners, as well. They will often take one hitch design and slap both company names on it. I've even seen them listed with different retail prices at the same web site.
It's no different with U-Haul or other service vendors. I can't keep all the company names straight, but U-Haul simply has a contract with Reese or DrawTite. Even many OEM hitches are just rebadged versions of these popular models. (Though, I don't think that's the case with the current CR-V's hitch.)
Car seats, cribs, playpens, parties, a large dog, trips, bookbags, and studying in the car waiting on ballet lessons! Think 2.4 kids and SPACE.
The Element has a max weight limit of 650 lbs, as opposed to the 850 or so of the CR-V (I haven't checked the Gen 3, mine was a 2003). This was a deal killer for me, since it would not haul as much weight as I needed. You might check this out.
I kept my car seats in the front of my F150. It was legal because I could turn off the airbags.
It was one of those pumps with 2 nozzles, One for gas (3 choices) and the other for diesel. The disclaimer said something like "This diesel is not to be used in 2007 vehicles"!
Anybody else noticed anything like this?
Thanks,
Kip
The patents for the A-VTEC system are based on an SOHC design. That suggests usage in Honda's V6 engines, not the I4s. Also, Honda has promised the release of A-VTEC with the 2008 Accord. So, even if the CR-V got A-VTEC, it probably wouldn't happen until 2009 or 2010.
Before anyone gets their hopes up for 2009, the mid-model change for the CR-V is scheduled for 2010. That is typically when we'd see major changes like engine upgrades and the more significant content changes.
While 2008 is the year when we're expected to see the first diesel, there is not reason to expect that Honda will choose the CR-V as the first model to use it. It is far more likely that a higher volume model (Accord) will showcase the engine. Then it will be added to other vehicles in the following years.
As for A-VTEC, I've read nothing concrete about it being offered in both I4 and V6 form. All the buzz suggests that it will be launched with the Accord, which, once again, means the CR-V may get it later. But certainly not the 2008 model year.
I wonder what state you are in. All diesel now sold is supposed to be ultra low sulfur, which goes with the cleaner 2007 and later diesel engines. It sounds like that particular dealer had some of the older diesel.
Depending on the size of the diesel (I have read 2.2L), it would go well on the CR-V; also, a similar engine is already available in Europe as an option on the CR-V. So it would be easy to implement in the US model. Plus, I think people would accept a diesel SUV more readily than a car - it is more associated in the US consumer with "truck - like" vehicles.
Aren't you assuming that the Accord will have those numbers?
Well then, let's ask him.
Hey, Vcarreras... When you asked about the 2008 CR-V, were you asking about the 2009 model year CR-V that will become available late in 2008?
I'm not on %100 board with the notion of it having trucker appeal.
The buyers who get diesels for their "trucks" are buying 6.7 liter engines and use them for towing horse trailers, yachts, and small third world countries. These buyers would consider the CR-V a nice hood ornament for a diesel truck.
No, the buyers American Honda would be targeting are former buyers of Golfs, Jettas, and other economical diesel options we've seen in the US. Even though diesel has a lengthy history here, this engine will target "early adopters" who are greenies. This is the same crowd that buys up every Prius they can find. (When they're not staging anti-SUV rallies.)
While adding this diesel to the CR-V line is almost a certainty, I have serious doubts that the CR-V will be selected to showcase this new engine. The Accord and Civic will make much better poster children. Once market reaction is measured with those two, the CR-V will follow.
Georgia.
I'll look again next time at station!
Kip
Not to mention even Mercedes has had trouble meeting CARB standards. Their bluetec isn't sold in all 50 states.
VW says they will meet the standards. We'll see, though, because Mercedes said the same thing, yet they failed. I think they were counting on some lobbying to allow their urea injection system, which has to be re-filled periodically (each oil change).
I would not be surprised if Honda can manage, as they tend to be among the best at meeting emissions with creative solutions.
Honda recently announced a new technology that they hope to deploy within a couple of years. It does not require urea, or any maintenance to the emissions system.
Can any of that be told in Layman terms? :confuse:
Kip
In the late 70s, Honda managed to meet new emissions (think pollution) standard without using a catalytic converter with the Civic CVCC.
Basically, everyone else had to use a catalytic converter, Honda didn't. They are heavy and expensive, so it was a very elegant solution for them at the time.
If you look you'll find many more creative solutions Honda has thought of over the years, specifically with a focus on fuel efficiency and clean engines.
Also, any notice that you can't turn the radio on or off by steering controls? On my Toyota, if you hold down the Mode button you can turn on or off.
Thanks
I now notice the small letters--H, M, and R--on buttons 1,2, and 3 respectively. The manual also says nothing about them.
Page 206... hour button (preset 1)
minute button (preset 2)
reset button (preset 3) for EX and EX-L radios.
The H,M,R are for Hour, Minute, Reset
These are for setting the clock.
http://www.vtec.net/modelmatrix/
Does not mean model year so it could be 2009.
Expected EPA mpg ratings?
Horsepower?
Torque?
For me, a CR-V capable of present day performance with a boost in economy would be very welcome.
The MPG of diesel will need to be considerably higher to compensate for extra price of diesel engine and fuel.
Kip
http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/honda-accord-2.2-i-ctdi-ran- - ge-1003945.html
http://www.channel4.com/4car/di/honda/cr-v/1022/1
http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/honda-fr-v-2.2-i-ctdi-diese- - l-1004491.html
Mileage improvement of 30% so guess city mpg estimate 26-28 and highway 37-39 mpg.
It's not about whether or not diesel appeal will "cut across all buyer profiles". It's about where Honda can get the most bang for the buck from a PR perspective.
Steve was suggesting that appeal would be greater for CUVs, not equal across the markets.
Let's assume you're correct about the appeal of diesel. (Completely fictional example.) For kicks, we'll say 15% of buyers within any segment will be attracted to it. 15% of the Civic or Accord market would mean roughly 45K sales for each vehicle. In the CR-V's market diesel would attract something like 25K buyers. Obviously, either the Civic or Accord would represent better options in terms of getting the word out.
"Further,it stops the gravitation of buyers to the RAV V6 who have light towing needs."
First of all, if fuel economy and towing are such big issues, then why is the CR-V out-selling the I4 and V6 models of the RAV4 combined?
Second, buyers concerned with towing represent something like 5% of the market for small SUVs. Those buying the V6 RAV4 are not towing. They are speeding.
Thanks. That's what I figured. I seem to have started a donnybrook over the academic difference between model and calendar year trying to answer your question concerning model year offerings.
We really don't know how high demand will be because there has never been much of a supply of diesels. Their have been few choices, so how will they do when more choices arrive? It's hard to predict.
The other thing is that diesel costs more than gas does. Around here, it costs more than even premium fuel does. If it's 30% more efficient, but the fuel itself costs 10-20% more, that offsets a large part of any gains, and then of course you have to factor in the extra up-front cost of the diesel.
It will really depend upon the application. I think the CR-V would be an ideal one, though. You'd get more range from a smallish fuel tank, a noticeable drop in fuel costs, and the 2.2l diesel Honda uses is a solid powertrain. All that plus buyers aren't too cost sensitive, so the extra $800 (my guesstimate) for the diesel powertrain would be worth it.
In Brazil, diesel costs just over half the price of gasoline, it's ridiculous. :sick:
In Brazil, diesel costs just over half the price of gasoline, it's ridiculous.
My understanding is that diesel is less expensive to produce than gasoline. Don't know about the extra cost of removing the sulfer!
Is it a higher tax than charged on gasoline?
Is it a tax that is attached directly at the pump or is it a tax that is charged the oil companies, and they pass it along?
It does seem ridiculous if charging more taxes on diesel than on gasoline, unless it is simply a way to get the "BIG RIGS" to pay more road tax because they do more damage to the roads, than do passenger vehicles. If that is the case, there are ways to lower the prices for passenger vehicles.
Kip
vcarreras, Good articles, thanks!
Didn't see anything about 170HP, but overall the 2.2 diesel appears to be extremely interesting. From the read it seems they have been around a couple of years NOW, so hopefully the bugs are mostly worked out.
Mileage is certainly impressive for a vehicle the size and shape of the CR-V.
Torque of diesel engines never ceases to amaze me.
My lawn mower has a 16HP Kohler gas engine and weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 450 pounds. It has 3 blades and produces a 42" cut. Top speed is about 8 MPH. There is a notch to put the throttle lever in to obtain the best rpm for cutting. I'm guessing about 3600 RPM.. In our field, every one of those horses are put to use when running at about 2-3 mph due to the thick and tall grass.
Any faster and the engine will bog.
The Kubota Tractor has a 1500CC diesel that develops 31 horsepower. It weighs 3100+ lbs. Will run 15+ mph. In that same field, pulling a 60" cut 400# finishing mower, or a 700# bush hog at 7-8 MPH seems to have no effect on engine power. Hook it to a stump that isn't ready to come up yet and all four wheels will spin at very low rpm.
The tractor will cut the entire field in less than half the time and use less than half the fuel.
True that gearing has a lot to do with it but I somehow can't imagine a 31 horse gas engine accomplishing the same feats.
Kip
So the market structure is designed for big rigs, not for TDI owners.
Around me, I've seen diesel for as much as 60 cents more per gallon than regular fuel. That's significant, and eats up most of the economy savings.
-juice