DAKOTA VS TUNDRA

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Comments

  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    The points about American made goods in your household. I bet all your furniture is US made.

    And while I agree there are no US manufacturers making TV's anymore, and hardly any making stereos, I submit the Japanese have never made a good stereo amplifier, or a good speaker. (Don't come back with Sony or Technics, good value, but not for the critical ear. Technics better of the two.)

    Among the best names in high end audio, Krell, Mark Levinson, McIntosh are unmatched by anything ever produced in Japan. JBL speakers, were the finest speakers ever produced, before they succumbed to market realities. Their professional division made the speakers for the Lincoln Center, Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts, and JBL always had, and still does have big presence in concert sound, recording studios etc. What you see now, JBL speakers for car audio, and cheap speakers for home sound are made overseas.

    My computers? Hewlett Packard, Compaq, with genuine Intel processors. They kick butt, but are populated with mostly korean memory chips. But so what? America went to the moon with less computing power than a Commodore 64, and long before this present generation of computer whiz kid know-it-alls were even born. They will never see a moon landing in their lifetime. We've given it all over to the politically correct ambitions, for putting teachers in space, foreigners, old men, and eliminated the risk takers from the equation, the test pilots, Grissom, Shephard, White, Chaffe, Armstrong. So you get space from the internet. Big deal.

    Off my soap box. Sorry.
  • towcrazy2towcrazy2 Member Posts: 337
    Thanks for the bit of support on this "international" issue. No, we haven't made the inroads in the global market that we deserve. There's still a trade deficit, and we still need to LEARN more about overseas supply and demand... But I honestly believe that things will balance out in the longrun.

    Case-in-point: GM has made some real strides in the overseas markets. It's now bidding to buy Daiwoo to further penetrate those markets. It's also LEARNING more about what's required to compete globally... A GOOD THING!

    As for the global thing in general, this internet thing we all use daily is a PERFECT illustration of what's REALLY going on here. I communicate daily with friends in Australia and Asia. We LEARN from each other. As we do so, the "world" becomes smaller by the hour.

    Smell the coffee? Yep! And the coffee may originate (as vehicles do) from any number of countries. Speaking for myself, it feels good to have that choice!
  • swobigswobig Member Posts: 634
    most 1/2 ton owner tow a boat, ATV's, small items. Serious towing requires a serious 3/4 or 1 ton. Yeah, my Silverado will only haul 1450 lbs (I believe), but if I needed more I'd add a leaf or would have bought a heavier truck. It does what I need it to do and I'd feel safer loading it over it's limits (which I've done) than I would with a Tundra because it's a bigger, I think stronger pickup. Just my opinion...
  • 2drive2drive Member Posts: 90
    As long as I had some truck data out on the Tundra and Dakota, thought I'd post it.

    Comparing maximum specifications for 4x4 extended cabs Dakota and Tundra:

    Dakota Tundra

    Wheelbase 131" 128"
    Length 215" 217"

    Bed cu.ft. 46 45
    Bed length 78" 76"
    Bed width 59" 61"

    GVWR 6,050 6,050
    Payload 1,800 1,530
    Towing 6,200 7,100

    Horsepower 250 245
    Torque 345 315


    There two trucks are in fact very similar.
  • trucksrmetrucksrme Member Posts: 381
    Lookin like that tundra not be as big as them "mid sizers" now. Would like too see that tundra numbers up against them S10 and Rangers now. Bet that be a good compare now. Good luck on this one now!
  • snowcountrysnowcountry Member Posts: 15
    Hey yankees, guess who your largest trading partner is?

    Over the years I've developed a preference in country of origin - the way I figure, if the country has working conditions and standards similiar to mine, I'll buy from it. That basically counts out south-east asia, Korea, Mexico,South America and Tennessee (whoops, I didn't mean that)

    A couple things really bother me, countries such as Mexico which we use as low wage ghetto's, with minimal environmental and labour standards. And those manufacturers who are basically corporate welfare bums - they shop countries, states and towns looking for the biggest subsidies, free land, no taxes, lax labour laws and so on. Who is the winner here? Toyota and Nissan and Mercedes aren't operating plants in the US because of the superior workforce, it's the subsidies. A huge portion of the components and manufacturing equipment are imported from overseas - ultra low domestic content. Wake up, because it's a race to see who can get to the bottom fastest.

    One positive aspect of foriegn competition is the huge improvement in domestic quality. My Dakota QC is on order and it's the first North American brand vehicle I have ever owned - in 25 years!

    Don't worry about competition from Japan. All things are darn near equal. I drove the Tundra, it's very nice, well made, a little pricey. But it's not really filling any niche - I drove the F150 and the GMC too, and all things considered, the QC was the best bet for my family
    Four proper opening doors is a unique feature in this price range, and was the feature that clinched the deal. Well, it's also a nice looking truck and it fits my carport!
  • towcrazy2towcrazy2 Member Posts: 337
    You make some very legitimate points regarding multo-national competition. Things were much simpler 20 years ago, yet the quality of these darned trucks was sadly lacking!

    Good point also on the Tundra not filling a niche... Having worked for Toyota/Lexus on Tundra and RX-300 training projects, I honestly WANTED to step down from the Dodge Ram to the Tundra... Problem was it didn't have quite the specs I wanted for towing, yet it was still too "large" to slip into the garage without a problem.

    So... I ended up with a Dakota Quad with 5.9 guzzler... But I'm thoroughly delighted with it! The convenience of four independent doors and the pure spunk of that little monster have me totally absorbed! Don't know what it is about the Dodge Boys, but they certainly seem to have a knack for finding profitable niches!

    Good luck with your Quad!
  • ozarkozark Member Posts: 124
    Face it guys. This is not 1917 when the US tried to pursue an isolationist policy. The world is us and we is the world. If you look at the status of world commerce these days (particularly in the auto industry) it is very hard to buy a pure 100 per cent made in any country vehicle. I grew up on Fords and Chevys and at the same time have owned my share of Nissans and Datsun and VWs. I appreciate the Japanese for spurring American auto makers to get their heads out of their butt and make vehicles that the consumer wanted. Sure I love to buy American, and am a Union member myself, but when I shell out $20,000 plus for a vehicle, I would buy one from a Martian if I thought it was the best buy for the money and suited my purposes. It is obvious that the Toyota Tundra is the only real direct comparable vehicle to the Quad in terms of size. But until they add two real doors and lower the price a bit they will not be seeing my money. My brother just bought a Toyota Tundra and loves the truck. But he doesn't need a back seat for anything more than luggage and horse gear. My point (I think I had a point when I started this) is that I am glad to hear that people are recognizing that the Dakota Quad is truly a unique vehicle that is both well made and sensibly priced and for a whole lotta folks is the intelligent choice. After 7,000 trouble free miles I am still finding out how this really is a multi-purpose vehicle. I'm not much in to the my truck is better than your truck thing that sometimes happens when truck owners get their vehicles mixed up with other male body parts. And fortunately, this forum has been graced by a group of intelligent posters who are talking about real issues rather than silliness. :-)
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    I thought this would be the place to post this. A friend lost his job of 12 years on Friday. No warning, no notice, nothing. I have been friends with this guy for over 10 years, know his family very well. I won't name the company, but they were "downsizing" and moving operations out of the U.S. to increase profits with cheaper labor and manufacturing costs... What a wake up call on my part. I don't know anymore what to think. I believe in competition, but at what cost to our livelyhood?? and our families? You don't know what it is like to lose your job to someone overseas making 2 dollars a day until it happens to you or someone close to you....
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    What's your point/opinion? I think that's been the see-saw argument over domestic vs. import all along. You don't name the company, can you tell us if it's American or not?
    The debate has been if you buy import you're sending money overseas; so what if they employ Americans in the factories here. The other argument is buy American even if they build factories out of the country at the expense of the American worker. It's sort of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
    Even though I tend to buy American it seems the import companies that build factories here are at least contributing to the economy by putting people to work. I sure don't see any of the money Ford or GM earn by "keeping the money here" buying domestic.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    while I agree with your last statement

    "I sure don't see any of the money Ford or
    GM earn by "keeping the money here" buying
    domestic"

    I think that the people that would disagree tend to have a need to support unions whether they are truly beneficial or not. As to why they would do that, call it hereditary.
  • towcrazy2towcrazy2 Member Posts: 337
    OZARK,
    Yes indeed... "hooray for intelligence."

    It all kinda boils down to supply/demand/price, doesn't it? And it really doesn't matter WHO the maker is... If there's no demand for a vehicle or the price is way out there, the maker isn't gonna make any money!!!

    Had to chuckle at your one analogy about "anatomy vs. truck"... I'm continually entertained by the guys with cartoon characters in their rear windows, relieving themselves on one brand or another! What a hoot!!!

    VINCE:
    I can certainly relate to your frustration with loss of jobs through downsizing or opening facilities in other countries... My older brother lost his job of 10 years as a CPA with a major automotive supplier here in Detroit due to an international buyout.

    But it's a fact of life... And the ONLY way the U.S. is going to hold its own is to beat them at their own game!

    A small but interesting example: Well over half the domestic vehicles "bought" in the U.S. are actually leased... Particularly the high-end metal like loaded Suburbans, Yukons and "big-boy" pickups.

    So, what's happening with those units after the 2- or 3-year lease is up?

    An incredible number of them are being shipped to the Middle East, where they're paying big bucks (to the U.S.) for the things. They soak us for the petroleum products... We'll soak them for those big trucks!

    Ah well... Nothing "profound" here except to say that we need to continue thinking as global entrapreneurs rather than territorialists.
  • zonkzonk Member Posts: 208
    Just my opinion: Nothing wrong with buying American (or Canadian), nothing wrong with buying union made merchandise. I think we would all like to buy domestic if we thought the quality was good enough for us to put our money into. And that's the important thing. None of us, I think, want to waste our hard earned money on goods that will not perform, domestic or not. Competition helps stimulate producers to provide better products in order to gain or keep market share. Otherwise, there is no incentive for the producer to provide better and better stuff (when's the last time a big company did something altruisticaly?). Witness the morass of the US auto industry a few years back. The Japanese made inroads because of a real lack of quality in US built cars; they forced the Big Three to upgrade in order to survive. We are the beneficiaries of that competition. The Japanese are still getting market share because of a now perceived difference in quality in US goods. But US auto quality has come a long way, because of competition and the good folks on the assembly lines. Having said all that, I wish we had flourishing domestic industries, like electronics, that were not as dependent on off shore producers. And I don't like the fact that Chrysler is now DaimlerChrysler. And I believe too much of US industry and real estate is owned by off shore people, too. The point is that quality, or value for their money, is what most people want, and they will buy what they think delivers it to them. Sorry to be so long winded.
  • steve234steve234 Member Posts: 460
    While I feel for anyone who lost a job to overseas relocation, there are many reasons job loss happens. Recently Zebco began moving production to China because they cannot compete with all the other manufacturers. Other manufacturers have closed because they hired management that could not make good decisions and went down the tubes. My latest employee had 17 years with a highly successful company until that happen. Other companies have been scuttled by the unions who would rather lose jobs than work with management. BF Goodrich in Miami, OK was a huge employer trying to compete. When the competition demanded new ways of operating, they tried to work with the unions. The unions would not deal and thousands lost jobs. It almost destroyed the entire town.
    On the up side, right now most people are not hurting. Not like the early 70s' when employment was the pits. Now we cannot fill all the lower paying jobs because of the opportunities. 35 years ago we were cocky and took it on the chin. Today we are getting more savvy, but still need to improve our ability to compete.
  • snowcountrysnowcountry Member Posts: 15
    It's actually funny, here we are talking about job migration - I know that when Lexus/Toyota/Nissan started mfg in US it cost the jobs of1000's of Japanese auto workers.

    Miami? Don't know
    I'll bet theres a whole lot more to that story than stubborn union workers.
    Seems we had a couple tire plants in Canada do the same thing - some companies only want to build and sell based on squeezing the lowest costs, pinching every last penny out of suppliers and workers - instead of building quality products. Unreliable materials and workforce = shoddy products. That's why we bought QC's and Tundras instead of Kia's
  • wetwilliewetwillie Member Posts: 129
    Let's not be so hasty throwing the blame around. When management gets caught with their pants and run to the workforce for concessions who's to blame? The unions here and abroad (i.e. Europe) have created a middle class where one did not exist (recall serfdom, slavery). Developing countries, including those we export labor to, can only dream of having a laborforce as content and successful as ours - thanks to our unions. While I agree unions have an agenda - I would argue a just one - and that they are generally uncompromising and sometimes belligerent and are guilty of occasionally electing poor representation I think their influence on the standard of living we now enjoy can not be minimized. I work for a large U.S.-based, multinational corp. whose leader(CEO) makes 1000X what lowest paid workers make. Where's the rational here? We have to compete with countries (i.e. Japan) where this (pay ratio) is not only not acceptable, it's divisive. I contend we do pretty well against these many odds, competing with uni-cultural nations for example, and I will do my research before I make a purchase - for quality AND point of origin.
  • wetwilliewetwillie Member Posts: 129
    .....pants DOWN.......
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    a Tahoe is like an $80,000 truck overseas..

    Nuts man

    - Tim
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Been a while since I posted in here. I agree and support competition, but only FAIR competition.. China is a whole new topic. I feel we are feeding a giant who will one day take a very large swing at us.. and were funding it... This administration has sold the American people out for big business and profits to the highest bidder, China. Wait and see folks, its only a matter of time.. We have lost more jobs to China than Japan, Taiwan, Mexico, Indonesia, Thialand, combined! We are so short sighted it really scares me... We are so individualistic it scares me.. It only matters when it affects you..Someday it might.
  • themacguythemacguy Member Posts: 417
    while the general public could care less.

    This is EXACTLY what happened to the domestic oil industry in the 80's & 90's. It's gone, as are the jobs (500,000+), and guess what: now it's time to pay the piper - in much higher pump prices. And just as the ol' public is buying suv's & big trucks by the boatloads. What a conundrum. While I'm making more money directly because of the current situation, it still makes me sick to think of what could have - and should have been: stable energy supplies for the next 50 years (by drilling more prospects while importing much, much less oil). Now the only real hope that exists for lowering pump prices is switching to the only real stable and readily available source of fuel for internal combustion engines we have: compressed natral gas (cng). But it won't happen because the bureacrats & politicians just can't stand a strong voting block in the energy states - they'd rather switch wholesale (for huge, huge $) to the hybrid engine crap we're (nearly) sick of hearing about.

    This is off subject, so it's 'hidden.' But just to Topical, I like both of these trucks a whole bunch! :-))
  • meredithmeredith Member Posts: 575
    After 30 or more days of inactivity....

    this topic is being "frozen." It will be archived or deleted in the next 10 days or so.

    Front Porch Philosopher
    SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
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