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Cadillac STS: Good Quality?
Talk about STS quality here.
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I have a '01 Pontiac Montana, and I'm very reluctant to buy another GM vehicle, be it a Chevy or a Cadillac. In 70,000 miles, we've already had the transmission rebuilt, AC compressor and condensor replaced, and the majority of the major brake system components replaced, just to name a few major problems. Compared to its competition at the time, at $35k, the car was not even cheap either.
If I'm about to drop another $30k+ on another GM, I want to make sure it's not a money pit like our Montana. Thanks.
Anyway, I don't mind the price. I'm just saying, we already spent $35k on a GM van that has probably spent more time in the shop than on the road, and if I'm going to spend any amount of money for another GM car, I want to know that it will at least be reliable, if not blowing the doors off the competition.
If we were to get an STS, we would probably get a full option V8, so at $60k+, it better at least live up to its heritage and stop getting outclassed by cheaper Japanese imports and its German counterparts.
All I'm saying is to give me a reason to buy the STS, other than because it's 'just as good' as the competition and because I'll be helping the economy. Isn't that how every car owner should feel, especially at this level?
The long term J D Powers survey of owners puts the Cadillacs at somewhat worse than Buick. Buick is better than Toyota, but worse than Lexus, which is top rated.
If you can afford to blow over $60,000 on a car, then you can probably afford to replace a few parts now and then. The magazines have not thought too much of the STS, thinking that the Germans are still better.
Personally, I would do it again but get the new STS with even more goodies. My dealer is excellent, but since I have had only 2 oil changes, I haven't had to "put them to the test" - and don't think I will time soon.
No transmission "hunting" a la Lexus and Toyota. No engine problems. Regular gas if you want. Plus the car automatically emails you monthly about it's service status and sends an emergency email if it detects trouble!
Only dislike is the useless glove compartment, but it is the same for every other car in this class.
BTW, the transmission is built in France by a GM - Franco group and it is the same 5 speed automatic as in the BMW 5 series. The V6 is peppy as heck and I saw little difference between it and the V8. If you don't want to spring for the Nav, wait for a June or after STS with the "turn to turn" On-Star feature. It's a Nav system with voice directions and turn indicators on the instrument panel, but no large (space eating) display above the console. On Star is vastly underrated - every car ought to have this or similar, including the built in phone.
If you're looking for a full size car, go DTS. The STS is a smaller, sportier car but actually has a bigger wheel base than the DTS, but less interior room.
If you are considering a rear wheel, BMW 5 series type car, this is a great choice and it has the largest interior in that class. Plus you can make a great deal with GM - they are out to move their iron.
The Cadillac division has bent over backwards to be courteous and to thank me for my business. A refreshing surprise.
Hope that helps.
I think that BMW may still be using the 5 speed on the X-series trucks made here in the US.
Though one could certainly argue that the CTS (with "only" 6 cylinder motors) might benefit more in performance, and I was certainly hoping for the six speed there as well, I suppose it is possible that the RWD six speed might be seen as the ‘most premium’ component, and appropriate for the most premium model = STS.
We’ll see . . .
- Ray
Whishin’ & hopein’ . . .
"The Strasbourg site provides automatic transmissions to a number of high level external customers, such as BMW, Land Rover, Opel and Cadillac"
I believe the 6 speed is not yet available to any but Cadillac and Corvette until production ramps.
"MYC Transmission, 6-speed automatic, heavy-duty, electronically controlled with
overdrive, tow/haul mode and tap up/tap down shifting"
- Ray
NOT currently in need of such a large Sport Ute . .
But my point had to do with the quality of the STS - that high end autos such as the BMW use(d) the same GM designed and manufactured tranny.
Back to the "does BMW still use the GM tranny"...
Pls be aware that in Europe, the Z4, among others, is available w/ your choice of manual or 5 speed automatics.
From the Ireland BMW web site:
"In addition to a choice of 5- and 6-speed manual transmissions, the BMW Z4 also offers the option of 5-speed automatic transmission..."
Looks like everyone is having problems getting enough 6 speeds for every model in every market. Consumers obviously want them with the cost of petrol so high.
I'm sure every high end auto will move to 6 or 7 speed trannys as soon as possible.
The history of BMW using a GM automatic dates back to when they were using a ZF automatic and there were too many problems with those transmissions. So, BMW asked GM for a transmission, and started with a 4 speed, but this was upgraded to the 5 speed that GM has been using in the RWD sigma Cadillacs. I think that ZF has returned to supply BMW with a 6 speed automatic. I suppose that BMW has made sure that the new ZF transmission will be reliable.
GM is correct in that the 5 speed was used by BMW, but the proper term is "was", not "is".
Any suggestions, constructive comments, ideas or anything else that may assist in getting this car to the level that I thought cadillacs should be at?
If you want a trouble free car, please don't buy a Cadillac Buy a Lexus or a Toyota. If you don't believe me just take a look at their track record throughout the years compared to GM's vehicles. If you want trouble free the chances of you getting one from General Motors is like the chances of getting a WILD CARD.
The horror stories you mentioned that you had with your GM vehicles are notaberrations, they are the normal experience. I know, because I've had friends that have had their cars. They are designed and built to break. That's how they make their money. They make their money on parts.
If loyalty is important to you, then buy a Cadillac, however, think about what loyalty is going to do to your wallet in the long run.
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I'm thinking about buying a new car and the Cadillac STS is one of my considerations. I was wondering if owners could tell me any griefs they've had with the car, major or minor. I just want a car that will be as trouble free as possible>
Actually, I don't think GM really cares if people buy cars that have their nameplates on them because they are a global entity car manufacturing and distribution conglomerate with cosmetic engineering and cosmetic galore.
Case in point. Did you know that the Chevrolet Prizm is actually a Toyota Corolla in GM skin. The Chevrolet Aveo is built in South Korea.
More profound is the fact that Daimler Chrysler's headquarters are in GERMANY.
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All I'm saying is to give me a reason to buy the STS, other than because it's 'just as good' as the competition and because I'll be helping the economy. Isn't that how every car owner should feel, especially at this level?
I have a Toyotta Corolla. The cheapest car Toyota makes. The fist time I had any major problems with it, was at 150,000 miles, so there is no way anyone can convince me I should waste my money on a General Motors origin car. Not in this life and not in the next.
The reason why the price of the Cadillac you were looking at is so cheap is because it wasn't worth it's overinflated price to begin with and didn't hold its value anywhere near as well as a Lexus or Toyota.
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Hey everybody! I'm considering selling my '00 Toyota Camry LE and and looking at getting a '00 Cadillac Seville SLS with 58k... I was wondering how the quality of these are during the '98-'04 models? My Toyota has been trouble free for the past year and I'm ready to upgrade to something a little faster and alot more comfortable. I have found a SLS for around $9,950 (shocked at the low prices of these cars) Do you think that is a good deal? Thanks for the help.
A purchase this high demands special treatment. GM shows us that they are aware of the competition and are doing what they can to ensure the customer that they made the right choice with a GM product.
I sat in an STS and have to tell you, its a fine car. I have recently been in a BMW 5 series and have to tell you that from the outside it looks like a Pontiac or Nissan. Once you get in then you see its an expensive car.
The STS looks good either way. I think the V8 is no longer good enough to compete in the segment but I don't think GM will belike ford and ignore this problem.
If the '09 or '10 STS is any good as the '08 CTS, then Cadillac will really begin to re-establish itself.
Nevertheless the tire change was well worth the price!!
It has 24k miles on it. They want 25k for it.
Carfax report shows that it was a lease with the same owner for 3yrs.
It's certifed pre-owned with a 6yr/100,000 mile warranty (from the cars 2006 date)
Anything about the 2006 models that i should know that's a negative?
Worked Ok for the next 198 miles. Today the same problems ocurred. In addition, the transmission would not shift out of second gear and the engine died three times in about six blocks. So I am currently sitting and waiting for my new car with less than 400 miles on it to be towed back to the dealer.
I guess I'd better bone up on the Texas Lemon Law!
Pros: Outstanding powertrain - powerful and quiet. Decent fuel economy for a car of this size and horsepower. Comfortable interior for tall drivers & passengers (I am 6'5"). Responsive steering. Strong brakes. Good quality materials used in interior, good finish overall (but see caveats below). Styling is a matter of opinion but I find it pleasing.
Cons: Many driver controls are too complex and confusing to use, particularly while driving. Examples: nav system, rainsense feature, multi function headlight / turn signal / cruise control stalk. Noticeable rattles in both driver and front passenger arm rest controls, as well as passenger side dashboard - absolutely unacceptable in any 2009 automobile, and certainly in one of this price category. These annoying rattles and creaks mar the otherwise decent assembly. Trunk is deceptively small given the massive look of this car's rear-end. Interior storage is almost nil other than small glovebox (swallowed by gigantic owner's manual / nav manual brick - which you will need) and undersized console. Dealer experience was un-impressive for a car at $57k MSRP.
Overall I am happy with the car but the interior assembly is hardly up to the standards of the imports. Again, I am no American-car hater but it is what it is.
The STS has no rattles and the Northstar is a real treat after the 3.2 in the CTS. We'll see about quality, but based upon my experience with the CTS I'm not that concerned.
I agree that the nav system has issues. The user interface isn't very good and more than once, it has led me on a wild goose chase. I happen to like the rainsense wipers and the intellibeam features. The car is much quieter than the CTS and for a large car, it handles nicely. I do miss the fold-down rear seats.
I find the powertrain on my car (320 hp V8 - 4WD), and frankly most of the car's features, superior to my last car, a 2005 Infiniti Q45. Even though the Q45's V8 had 20 more hp (340) and 18 more lb ft of torque (333 lb ft at 4000 rpm) than my STS, it was far from the sporty, fun to drive experience the STS provides. Actual 0-60 times are about 1.5 seconds better from the STS (5.7 sec), and their weights are nearly identical. Cadillac's sigma platform (CTS/STS) is far more rigid where it should be and is an entire cut above that in many of its competitors. The stereo (15 speakers, 5.1 sound, comes with Nav system) is the best I've ever heard in a car -- even trumping my uncle's $120,000 2008 MB CL550. For the price, you just can't beat the feature set and luxury + drive dynamics combo of the STS. Period. BTW. if you're looking at the 2008-2010 models, the V6 packs 302 hp with great low end torque -- according to several experts, it's so awesome that it renders the V8 a somewhat minor upgrade. GM's new High Feature V6s are the first from the Company that not only run head-to-head with the best from Japan and Europe, but in some respects is actually superior (fuel economy is not one of these respects -- so I read). The 2005-2007 V6 (255 hp/258 lb ft) is quick (7 sec 0-60) and far more than adequate. Its "numbers" are misleading, b/c the max hp and torque say far less about performance than many may think. GM's put some clever tech into the power transfer systems of these V6s. The V8 is better when you need a punch of power in the 45-75 mph range. Off the line the V8 is somewhat better, but not in a way that many drivers would likely even notice. Get the STS with Certified warranty. You'll have nearly the same time (6 years from new purchase or 100,000 miles) and coverage essentially identical to "bumper-to-bumper" with all of the "concierge" services like roadside assistance, new loaner cars to drive when yours is serviced and so on.
Sorry to hear about your Montana. I'm sure the reliability was terrible for that model and I don't blame you for never buying GM again, but I've had great experiences with them (albeit with a 2007 STS); non-GM affiliated quality studies prove that they've come an amazingly long way with quality, reliability and fit/finish, surpassing the Japanese makes in many cases.
The Toyota Matrix is the Toyota version of a joint venture between Toyota and General Motors, the GM part is the Pontiac Vibe. These cars were produced ont he same production line using the same quality standards & functional parts. Of course the badges & show surfaces were different. Many auto reviewers ranked the Matrix far superior to that of the Vibe (few direct comparisons, but when comparing their individual "final scores" and comments). We're all human with unavoidable biases, and this is working great for Toyota, but not so much for GM.