I'm thinking about buying a new car and the Cadillac STS is one of my considerations. I was wondering if owners could tell me any griefs they've had with the car, major or minor. I just want a car that will be as trouble free as possible. Also, if anyone knows any other useful information about the car (i.e. how the 2006 Buick Lucerne is using the '91 Northstar V8) it would be much appreciated.
I have a '01 Pontiac Montana, and I'm very reluctant to buy another GM vehicle, be it a Chevy or a Cadillac. In 70,000 miles, we've already had the transmission rebuilt, AC compressor and condensor replaced, and the majority of the major brake system components replaced, just to name a few major problems. Compared to its competition at the time, at $35k, the car was not even cheap either.
If I'm about to drop another $30k+ on another GM, I want to make sure it's not a money pit like our Montana. Thanks.
Well, to begin with, the northstar engine went into production for the 1993 model year, not the 1991 model year. The Lucerne's northstar is the current FWD edition, which was redesigned for the 2000 model year. The STS has a RWD northstar which was also redesigned and is not the same engine as the FWD. The northstar engines have had some problems over the years but if the owner is alert most problems should not result in disaster. The STS price tag runs into the $50,000 plus range with V8. Perhaps you should consider a 300C?
I thought I read on an Edmunds review that the current Lucerne was using the outdated Northstar... Maybe I read it somewhere else...
Anyway, I don't mind the price. I'm just saying, we already spent $35k on a GM van that has probably spent more time in the shop than on the road, and if I'm going to spend any amount of money for another GM car, I want to know that it will at least be reliable, if not blowing the doors off the competition.
If we were to get an STS, we would probably get a full option V8, so at $60k+, it better at least live up to its heritage and stop getting outclassed by cheaper Japanese imports and its German counterparts.
All I'm saying is to give me a reason to buy the STS, other than because it's 'just as good' as the competition and because I'll be helping the economy. Isn't that how every car owner should feel, especially at this level?
There is no "outdated" northstar in production. However, the FWD northstar does not have variable valve timing, which the RWD version does have. The Lucerne has the same drive train (engine and transmission) that the DTS (old deVille) has.
The long term J D Powers survey of owners puts the Cadillacs at somewhat worse than Buick. Buick is better than Toyota, but worse than Lexus, which is top rated.
If you can afford to blow over $60,000 on a car, then you can probably afford to replace a few parts now and then. The magazines have not thought too much of the STS, thinking that the Germans are still better.
I have a 2005 STS V6 lux. Got it in April 05. Now 13 mos old with 13 K mikes. Not a hiccup. I was a little GM shy myself from a previous Buick. But I love the in your face American styling - and I admit to liking USA products when they meet or beat the competition.
Personally, I would do it again but get the new STS with even more goodies. My dealer is excellent, but since I have had only 2 oil changes, I haven't had to "put them to the test" - and don't think I will time soon.
No transmission "hunting" a la Lexus and Toyota. No engine problems. Regular gas if you want. Plus the car automatically emails you monthly about it's service status and sends an emergency email if it detects trouble!
Only dislike is the useless glove compartment, but it is the same for every other car in this class.
BTW, the transmission is built in France by a GM - Franco group and it is the same 5 speed automatic as in the BMW 5 series. The V6 is peppy as heck and I saw little difference between it and the V8. If you don't want to spring for the Nav, wait for a June or after STS with the "turn to turn" On-Star feature. It's a Nav system with voice directions and turn indicators on the instrument panel, but no large (space eating) display above the console. On Star is vastly underrated - every car ought to have this or similar, including the built in phone.
If you're looking for a full size car, go DTS. The STS is a smaller, sportier car but actually has a bigger wheel base than the DTS, but less interior room.
If you are considering a rear wheel, BMW 5 series type car, this is a great choice and it has the largest interior in that class. Plus you can make a great deal with GM - they are out to move their iron.
The Cadillac division has bent over backwards to be courteous and to thank me for my business. A refreshing surprise.
While it is true that at one time BMW used GM's 5 speed automatic, now they have a 6 speed from some other supplier. There is a possibility that the 2007 STS will get GM's 6 speed, perhaps as an option. I say this only because the XLR is getting the 6 speed. However, the Corvette is using the 6 speed, so perhaps this not really a clue.
I think that BMW may still be using the 5 speed on the X-series trucks made here in the US.
Since many (most?) of the GM cars with few changes for 2007 (CTS, Corvette, others) have their ordering guides out, I cling to hope that the STS (non-V-s, with no ordering guide yet posted) will (also) have the six speed automatic added.
Though one could certainly argue that the CTS (with "only" 6 cylinder motors) might benefit more in performance, and I was certainly hoping for the six speed there as well, I suppose it is possible that the RWD six speed might be seen as the ‘most premium’ component, and appropriate for the most premium model = STS.
If you check with the BMW website you will find that all of their cars and trucks (3-series, X-3, X-5, 5-series...) have six (6) speed automatics only. At one time in the dead past GM's 5 speed automatic was used at BMW, but not now.
But my point had to do with the quality of the STS - that high end autos such as the BMW use(d) the same GM designed and manufactured tranny.
Back to the "does BMW still use the GM tranny"...
Pls be aware that in Europe, the Z4, among others, is available w/ your choice of manual or 5 speed automatics.
From the Ireland BMW web site: "In addition to a choice of 5- and 6-speed manual transmissions, the BMW Z4 also offers the option of 5-speed automatic transmission..."
Looks like everyone is having problems getting enough 6 speeds for every model in every market. Consumers obviously want them with the cost of petrol so high.
I'm sure every high end auto will move to 6 or 7 speed trannys as soon as possible.
I do not think that BMW equips their car in Europe with a different transmission than the ones that are sent to the USA. The Z4 on the international site is shown to offer a 6 speed automatic only.
The history of BMW using a GM automatic dates back to when they were using a ZF automatic and there were too many problems with those transmissions. So, BMW asked GM for a transmission, and started with a 4 speed, but this was upgraded to the 5 speed that GM has been using in the RWD sigma Cadillacs. I think that ZF has returned to supply BMW with a 6 speed automatic. I suppose that BMW has made sure that the new ZF transmission will be reliable.
GM is correct in that the 5 speed was used by BMW, but the proper term is "was", not "is".
Love the Northstar. If they are using the engine that is in my wife's 00 Eldorado ESC in the Lucerne, then I think it is one of the best decisions they ever made. No oil burn whatsoever, and her Eldorado gets [no bull] 32 mpg on the highway, and about 23-24 on around town driving. We had one issue with crankshaft sensors that were replaced under warranty. [It may have been a common problem because the svc. tech diagnosed it as soon as I told him the problem symtoms--stalling at a light-- but nothing else in five years. Gets better gas mileage by far than my 6 cyl. Chrysler 300M, and also just edges out my 04 Vette which gets about 30 mpg at highway speeds under 70. The fact that a Northstar was going into the Lucerne piqued my interest, but the car design is so bland I have not driven one, and will probably go for an STS first. :shades:
My wife and I purchased a used 2002 STS with approx 52,000 a year ago. Since then the check tire pressure is always on even after manually checking each tire against the man. specs, the auto. windshield wipers no longer come on when it rains, it vibrates at exactly 60mph but stops at 65mph and it continually leakes oil even after paying to have a gasket replaced which required the engine pulled out in order to get to the gasket. Now the 6 disk CD changer has gone on the blink. Is this what is to be expected from Cadillac? I've gone to the dealer and been told that they either don't know whats wrong with it and even if they did none of it would be covered under the extended warranty we purchased.
Any suggestions, constructive comments, ideas or anything else that may assist in getting this car to the level that I thought cadillacs should be at?
Amazing, a few years back I owned a 94 STS and did some posting, nothing has change with Cadillac. Chronic vibration, oil leaks, wobble handling. I just don't get it, GM makes an excellent car like Pontiac GP or the Impala then they fail with Cadillac by giving us junk at double the price.
First off you can't blame Cadillac for problems with a used car. How do you know that this vehicle was treated right. It could have been used, abused, and misused. I once sold a 76 Ford truck to a Olds dealer on a new 98. The following spring I came across the same truck on a sod farm. Guy said the dealer said he bought it from a lady who's husband had died suddenly. I said, guess what, I'm still alive. I have had 4 STS's, my buddy 2, my dad one and none of them have had the kinds of problems you are talking about. My 99 had a short in the main wire harness and that was fixed and only problem. None of the above ones have had a problem that put it in the shop for over night. Mostly just growing pains. I can remember a road test in one of the car mags that was complaining about a Lexus they were testing that everytime they parked it they would come back and the sunroof was open the windows were down or going up and down on their own. Also got wet inside a couple times. Seems Lexus could find nothing wrong with it. When you buy used it a big gamble.
Ive had my share of STS's and Devilles without any of these problems. Northstar is a very smooth engine. Vibration could have been a tire out of round.
I owned one of these used 3-4 year old STS's and experienced same exact things. Used cars are not a problem, this car is. A)Engine gasket, believe it or not i resolved this my self by loosening on the front as many bolts i could, soaked area with engine cleaner, dried it up with alcohol, finger applied silicone engine gasket seal, retightned bolts, leak stopped. re occurring northstar engine problem, GM doesn't care to end the disease. Chronic vibrations "at any speed", In my opinion the Electronic ride control that sounds fantastic but is inferior than a shock system, is temperamental and develops a basketball bouncing effect. Out of round is the usual excuse, nobody has this problem, only Cadillac...nothing worse than a shaking car, can't enjoy it. Changing tires or rims will not work, been down that road. MY friend you are probably thinking of selling and you will realize that It's very hard to find a Cadillac buyer and you will only get about as much as good 2002 Taurus if not less. Service Ride Control should be flashing very soon, fixing it may not improve the ride, 6K+?. A conventional shock absorber suspension system will run flat and perfect rebound control on a 20K car.
Hey everybody! I'm considering selling my '00 Toyota Camry LE and and looking at getting a '00 Cadillac Seville SLS with 58k... I was wondering how the quality of these are during the '98-'04 models? My Toyota has been trouble free for the past year and I'm ready to upgrade to something a little faster and alot more comfortable. I have found a SLS for around $9,950 (shocked at the low prices of these cars) Do you think that is a good deal? Thanks for the help.
If you want a trouble free car, please don't buy a Cadillac Buy a Lexus or a Toyota. If you don't believe me just take a look at their track record throughout the years compared to GM's vehicles. If you want trouble free the chances of you getting one from General Motors is like the chances of getting a WILD CARD.
The horror stories you mentioned that you had with your GM vehicles are notaberrations, they are the normal experience. I know, because I've had friends that have had their cars. They are designed and built to break. That's how they make their money. They make their money on parts.
If loyalty is important to you, then buy a Cadillac, however, think about what loyalty is going to do to your wallet in the long run. ____________________ reference text:::: I'm thinking about buying a new car and the Cadillac STS is one of my considerations. I was wondering if owners could tell me any griefs they've had with the car, major or minor. I just want a car that will be as trouble free as possible>
First, to answer your question. The STS isn't as good as the competion. If you don't believe me, drive a Lexus or a BMW, then go test drive an STS.
Actually, I don't think GM really cares if people buy cars that have their nameplates on them because they are a global entity car manufacturing and distribution conglomerate with cosmetic engineering and cosmetic galore. Case in point. Did you know that the Chevrolet Prizm is actually a Toyota Corolla in GM skin. The Chevrolet Aveo is built in South Korea.
More profound is the fact that Daimler Chrysler's headquarters are in GERMANY. _________________________ reference text:::::
All I'm saying is to give me a reason to buy the STS, other than because it's 'just as good' as the competition and because I'll be helping the economy. Isn't that how every car owner should feel, especially at this level?
Yes, I have a suggestion, take them to court with the lemon law, and please stop buying GM origin cars. They're not worth anyone's money.
I have a Toyotta Corolla. The cheapest car Toyota makes. The fist time I had any major problems with it, was at 150,000 miles, so there is no way anyone can convince me I should waste my money on a General Motors origin car. Not in this life and not in the next.
Why would you "downgrade" to a Cadillac SLS if you've owned a trouble free Toyota product. I don't get it. Why not upgrade to a used Lexus luxury model?
The reason why the price of the Cadillac you were looking at is so cheap is because it wasn't worth it's overinflated price to begin with and didn't hold its value anywhere near as well as a Lexus or Toyota.
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Hey everybody! I'm considering selling my '00 Toyota Camry LE and and looking at getting a '00 Cadillac Seville SLS with 58k... I was wondering how the quality of these are during the '98-'04 models? My Toyota has been trouble free for the past year and I'm ready to upgrade to something a little faster and alot more comfortable. I have found a SLS for around $9,950 (shocked at the low prices of these cars) Do you think that is a good deal? Thanks for the help.
Be careful! I own an '07 Lexus 460L w/Touring Package and am having quality problems. Also, the park-o-matic option is a fraud; Lexus HQ will not support it; says its the dealer's responsibility to train the owners. However, no DVD or video is offered similar to their excellent guidance furnished for the navigation system. I have owned 4 Lexus in the past 3 years and this is the first one I have had to return for repair; others were flawless. A switch failed and it took 3 days to diagnose/replace it; they seem poorly trained to handle this barrel of snakes management has given them.
Well, as a BMW owner of the last 20 years I went out and drove a STS, 2007 and took delivery on March 3, 2007. See my review in the review group. I just got back from a 500 mile trip last night, the car handles better than my 5 series and is so comfotaable a ride that it is hard to stay awake. I leased the car for 3 years and since I owned a BMW they gave me an additional 3,000.00 off. In total I got 8,000.00 off and leased the car at 420/month with no money down. The warrenty even covers tires! I must disagree as to the comparison of cars as Cadillac has done a fine job here. Their stabilitrak is great as well as onstar. The base lease price on mine was 37,000.00 after discounts etc, try to get a 5 series to that? It might fall apart but what I see so far is a nice ride. Wayne.
Hi "mediapusher" I was just like you until I opened my mind and tried the Cadillac. This car has changed so much. The factory manager where the car was built called me 3 days after purchase to see how I liked the car and if anything was wrong. I am convinced GM is making a comeback. Please give them a chance. Drive the car! I know we all have become jaded over the years but look at GM's whole lineup. They are making the adjustments Ford has not. Wayne.
I think you have a good point. If GM people call you after making a Cadillac purchase, then that really is a good sign of GM changing.
A purchase this high demands special treatment. GM shows us that they are aware of the competition and are doing what they can to ensure the customer that they made the right choice with a GM product.
I sat in an STS and have to tell you, its a fine car. I have recently been in a BMW 5 series and have to tell you that from the outside it looks like a Pontiac or Nissan. Once you get in then you see its an expensive car.
The STS looks good either way. I think the V8 is no longer good enough to compete in the segment but I don't think GM will belike ford and ignore this problem.
If the '09 or '10 STS is any good as the '08 CTS, then Cadillac will really begin to re-establish itself.
Well yesterday I got a email survey of 100 question from GM about the quality and any troubles with the car. I am more and more impressed every day. I think GM gets it. Poor Ford, 3 channel antilocks? My God how behind the times is that. I do not think Ford is going to make it.
i'm thinking of buying a 2003 STS help me make this a wise decision. how does the car handle? in snow? mpg in town and on the highway? should i buy a certified car or go with a used one without it. any horror stories or good ones for that matter. i'm trying to decide between the 2001 740il BMW vs the STS comments, thoughts? anyone had some of the older STS models and then bought a 2003? what are the goodies i want on this car to be looking for? thanks for all your help
If you tolerated a Camry, you will love an STS!! My 2005 sts has been trouble free and a pleasure to drive in town as well as on the highway. The v6 is more than adequate. The original equipment Michalin tires had a dreadful lack of traction on wet or snowy pavement making winter travel downright dangerous. I took the plunge and had Goodyear Eagle F1 mounted. What an astonishing difference!! Unfortunately I haven't found a buyer for the michalins which have only 13400 miles of use!! Nevertheless the tire change was well worth the price!!
I found a used 2006 STS White Diamond. It has 24k miles on it. They want 25k for it. Carfax report shows that it was a lease with the same owner for 3yrs. It's certifed pre-owned with a 6yr/100,000 mile warranty (from the cars 2006 date)
Anything about the 2006 models that i should know that's a negative?
I took delivery of my new (2008) STS Friday April 11, 2008. At 200 miles chimes went off and Stability Control and Antilock Brake lights came on and car went into limp mode. We got it into Batchelor Cadillac in San Antonio Saturday (4/12/08) :lemon: :lemon: afternoon. On Tuesday they called to say they had fixed it. Worked Ok for the next 198 miles. Today the same problems ocurred. In addition, the transmission would not shift out of second gear and the engine died three times in about six blocks. So I am currently sitting and waiting for my new car with less than 400 miles on it to be towed back to the dealer. I guess I'd better bone up on the Texas Lemon Law!
I took delivery of a 2008 STS-4 in late December; since then it has had a tire pressure monitor failure, two burned out front lights, a faulty cam monitor, the right cam failed and had to be replaced and they had to replace the fuel tank solenoid. My car has been in the dealer's service bay for a total of 16-days since I leased it. This is my 1ST ever Cadillac and my 1St GM product in 12-years and I am not happy. Dealer is great, STS is a lemon.
After tearing the interior out of the car, the service dept. found a loose ground wire. No problem since then except for rattles; probably due to having to remove the interior.
How much routine maintenance usually cost? Is STS really a lemon? This is my 1st time considering a Cadillac. I've heard horror stories about cadillac that just turned me off. But I got my eyes on an '06 STS v6 that's offered for $25k certified (edmunds and kbb give about the same quote). I thought its a cadillac, but the price is seriously tempting. Is it worth it?
Yes, the STS is a lemon, and GM is just not set up to sell luxury cars. Their dealerships remind me of fast food restaurants in terms of decor. Cadillacs are expensive, way too expensive considering the competition. I can tell you that I just traded my 13 month old 2007 STS V-8 with RWD for a 2008 BMW 335i sedan, and the difference in drivability, quality, features, etc is staggering. There is a reason that BMW has a high resale value and the only realistic way to buy a Cadillac is to buy one 1-2 years old. I also have a 2008 GMC Sierra 1500, and it is great! GM makes the world's best pick-ups, but their cars just don't measure up in the over $35000 range.
I have a 2006 sts. The car has been problems since I purchased it. My car starts when it wants to and it stalls when turning corners. Once it just shut down with out me even turning off the ignition or putting it in park. But ever time I take it to the dealer ship, they can't find anything wrong. I have had the car for over two years and it only has twelve thousand miles, becuase it's not safe to drive. Have you ever had these problems?? :lemon: :lemon: :sick:
No, the drivetrain performed very well. But I had 6 different problems, not counting the recall, that required servicing. I have never had this experience with BMW or Toyota. And when you take resale in to account, buying new American cars unfortunately does not make much sense.
I have a 2oo8 STS that is a three lemon car: cam shaft failure on right bank at 13,000 miles, cam shaft sensor failure at same mileage, driver's seat lumbar failure, key FOB failure, antenna key FOb sensor failure, left front whell bearing failure at 28,000 miles. And on and on. I will never again buy or lease a GM product! :lemon: :sick: :sick: :lemon:
As long as we have people who rely on outdated talking points and myths that are demonstratably false we will continue to have discussions like this where North American car quality is belittled as if it were still 1985. Anyone who REALLY is into performance cars that are in the class of M's, R's, AMG's and V's and has followed any number of quality and reliability metrics that are published would know that Cadillac is equal to or superior to Audi, BMW, and until recently was miles ahead of Mercedes (as was everyone), when it comes to reliability and quality. BMW and Merc rely heavily on buyer loyalty and the got-a-have-it prestige factor. Just check out the JD Powers run down on quality over the last few years. In 2008 BMW was well below the industry average as was Mercedes for MANY years prior. Mercedes for years suffered from VERY poor quality. They have clawed their way back recently. So why are we talking as if that is not the case? Being a mechanical engineer myself I can tell you that the reason Cadillac doesn't put $20K worth of leather in the interior of the V is because they don't want to. They want to undercut the price of those M's, R's and AMG's by $20K-$30K. The reason they only sell 5K V's a year is because that is all they want to build. In 2008 only 2.5K M5's were sold. Why?....that's all they built !! V's don't even get a chance to get to the sales floor before they are gobbled up. I own a 2005 V and when compared to the M5 it can more than hold its own in any performance catagory on any day and do it it for $35,000 less. The guy in the 2005 M5 I passed at Nelson Ledges Race Track in Ohio last summer spent $85K because he wanted lots of leather on the inside, the BMW tag on the outside and probably thought the quality was superior to my V....but he was wrong.....and JD powers said so. Please spare us all your stories about friends who owned a Caddy and had transmission trouble. Because I'm bored with repeating the story of my office buddy's 2006 M3 that has cost him thousand's of dollars in mechanic bills since his warranty ran out. Hint to future car buyers: It is NO LONGER considered fashionable, vogue or a sign of snobby Eurocentric sophistication to belittle North American car quality. As we used to say down in Texas....That dog don't hunt!
I recently bought a 2009 STS V8 pre-certified in the north Texas area. This is my first GM product but is certainly not my first American car. As of today it has about 14,000 miles on the clock. Here is my experience so far:
Pros: Outstanding powertrain - powerful and quiet. Decent fuel economy for a car of this size and horsepower. Comfortable interior for tall drivers & passengers (I am 6'5"). Responsive steering. Strong brakes. Good quality materials used in interior, good finish overall (but see caveats below). Styling is a matter of opinion but I find it pleasing.
Cons: Many driver controls are too complex and confusing to use, particularly while driving. Examples: nav system, rainsense feature, multi function headlight / turn signal / cruise control stalk. Noticeable rattles in both driver and front passenger arm rest controls, as well as passenger side dashboard - absolutely unacceptable in any 2009 automobile, and certainly in one of this price category. These annoying rattles and creaks mar the otherwise decent assembly. Trunk is deceptively small given the massive look of this car's rear-end. Interior storage is almost nil other than small glovebox (swallowed by gigantic owner's manual / nav manual brick - which you will need) and undersized console. Dealer experience was un-impressive for a car at $57k MSRP.
Overall I am happy with the car but the interior assembly is hardly up to the standards of the imports. Again, I am no American-car hater but it is what it is.
I recently bought a 2006 STS V8. As a used car, it's a screaming deal. It replaced an '03 CTS. The CTS was also bought used. I put 65K miles on the CTS without any problems.
The STS has no rattles and the Northstar is a real treat after the 3.2 in the CTS. We'll see about quality, but based upon my experience with the CTS I'm not that concerned.
I agree that the nav system has issues. The user interface isn't very good and more than once, it has led me on a wild goose chase. I happen to like the rainsense wipers and the intellibeam features. The car is much quieter than the CTS and for a large car, it handles nicely. I do miss the fold-down rear seats.
HI, I AM LOOKING TO BUY A 99 STS THAT IS IN GREAT CONDITION, THE OWNER REPLACED THE NORTHSTAR MOTOR WITH ONE THAT HAD 20,000 MILES ON IT, 10,000 MILES AGO. IF I PURCHASE THIS CAR WHAT PRECAUTIONS SHOULD I DO TO IT TO PREVENT FUTURE HEAD GASKET PROBLEMS WITH THIS MOTOR. THE PRICE OF THE CAR IS 4,500 AND DRIVES GREAT.
We have a 2008 STS. Great car however, if you dont get awd you wont get around in New England without a set of snow tires. We also had a problem with the computer, the dealer reset it but could not find the cause. Blessings to you
I've had my 2007 STS for nearly 3 years without a single problem. Statistical data suggests the person using the term "lemon" for his STS did indeed get a very rare bad apple of the bunch. Remeber Cadillac is #1 on several customer satisfaction surveys (e.g. JD power) -- yes, even beating #2 Lexus. Ditto for quality and repair frequency. Audi, BMW & MB have far more incidents per 1,000 cars sold than Cadillac does.
I find the powertrain on my car (320 hp V8 - 4WD), and frankly most of the car's features, superior to my last car, a 2005 Infiniti Q45. Even though the Q45's V8 had 20 more hp (340) and 18 more lb ft of torque (333 lb ft at 4000 rpm) than my STS, it was far from the sporty, fun to drive experience the STS provides. Actual 0-60 times are about 1.5 seconds better from the STS (5.7 sec), and their weights are nearly identical. Cadillac's sigma platform (CTS/STS) is far more rigid where it should be and is an entire cut above that in many of its competitors. The stereo (15 speakers, 5.1 sound, comes with Nav system) is the best I've ever heard in a car -- even trumping my uncle's $120,000 2008 MB CL550. For the price, you just can't beat the feature set and luxury + drive dynamics combo of the STS. Period. BTW. if you're looking at the 2008-2010 models, the V6 packs 302 hp with great low end torque -- according to several experts, it's so awesome that it renders the V8 a somewhat minor upgrade. GM's new High Feature V6s are the first from the Company that not only run head-to-head with the best from Japan and Europe, but in some respects is actually superior (fuel economy is not one of these respects -- so I read). The 2005-2007 V6 (255 hp/258 lb ft) is quick (7 sec 0-60) and far more than adequate. Its "numbers" are misleading, b/c the max hp and torque say far less about performance than many may think. GM's put some clever tech into the power transfer systems of these V6s. The V8 is better when you need a punch of power in the 45-75 mph range. Off the line the V8 is somewhat better, but not in a way that many drivers would likely even notice. Get the STS with Certified warranty. You'll have nearly the same time (6 years from new purchase or 100,000 miles) and coverage essentially identical to "bumper-to-bumper" with all of the "concierge" services like roadside assistance, new loaner cars to drive when yours is serviced and so on.
Just so you know, the Northstar V8 didn't hit showrooms until MY 1993. There is no '91 Northstar from GM. Also, the V8 used in the Lucerne is based on a 2000 update to the 300 hp (old SAE hp rules) version, with coil-on-plug ignition and roller follower valvegear for improved fuel economy and reduced emissions. Various undocumented "bug fixes" and tuning has been implemented every 2-3 years since 2000, making this one of the most tested & reliable V8s for the luxury market. Yes, it's a fairly old design, but one that is still world-class.
Sorry to hear about your Montana. I'm sure the reliability was terrible for that model and I don't blame you for never buying GM again, but I've had great experiences with them (albeit with a 2007 STS); non-GM affiliated quality studies prove that they've come an amazingly long way with quality, reliability and fit/finish, surpassing the Japanese makes in many cases.
The Toyota Matrix is the Toyota version of a joint venture between Toyota and General Motors, the GM part is the Pontiac Vibe. These cars were produced ont he same production line using the same quality standards & functional parts. Of course the badges & show surfaces were different. Many auto reviewers ranked the Matrix far superior to that of the Vibe (few direct comparisons, but when comparing their individual "final scores" and comments). We're all human with unavoidable biases, and this is working great for Toyota, but not so much for GM.
Finally, someone who "gets it." That sounds arrogant, but the facts are clear. I'm a Biomechanical Engineer working for a tier-1 safety systems supplier and find it amazing how people can be so certain when drawing conclusions regarding matters with which they have little or no training/experience. The study showing how the Matrix/Vibe (GM/Toyota JV), coming off of the same line, received different scores when consumer (and even expert) reviewers wrote about both brands. It's no surprise the Vibe recieved far worse reviews than the identical Matrix. Most of these reviews were retracted or heavily modified subsequent to their authors learning of the pair's pedigree. Bias is unavoidable! Anyway, thanks for supplying some rational thought in this sea of ignorance and anecdotes disguised as facts.
Anecdotal stories do seem to be all the rage even today. I am very likely going to be purchasing an 05 STS for a very good price. Frankly, I absolutely LOVE poor resale value. My last car was a 2004 Saab 9-5 Aero. I picked it up for peanuts since it probably has one of the worst resale values around. Absolutely fantastic car! It surprised me. Did it have issues? Absolutely. The thing is, dealerships, and any repair center for that matter, are not perfect. Sure, maybe they SHOULD be the experts, but often time they are not. All my Saab issues were solved by searching online forums! Repairs that were in the $500-$1K range (as quoted by dealerships) were addressed at $50 - $300. And they were fixed correctly the FIRST time because I had researched the problem and THEN went elsewhere with the suggested fix, OR often fixed it myself. If someone is LAZY about educating themselves, then frankly you WILL pay MORE and you will pay more OFTEN. Basically, just about ANY modern vehicle can be maintained well if you are willing to assume the responsibility of learning about it and its issues. There will always be outliers that are legitimate LEMONS and money pits. It happens. Just like there will be the opposite outliers which will never break in spite of an owner's ineptitude. My Saab was great until it got smashed into by an inattentive driver. The STS looks like a great vehicle which I will undoubtedly study up on further if I become an owner.
I am looking at a 2008 STS with 9800 miles on it. It is a a new cadillac dealer and was a GM buyback for at 8 miles they replaced pass seat cushion, replaced battery 1700 miles, replaced grill, flat tire and wiper at 2900 inflatable seat restraint pass seat suppresion modual 4200 miles, twice replaced inflatable restriant sensing and diagnostic module at 4900 miles and 6200 miles, instrument panel compartment door latch, and occupant safety wiring and connection repair 9800 miles should I stay away and what is this car worth?
I would certainly consider this vehicle if they gave me a coupla thousand bucks and a free for life gas card with it.. Realistically there are just some things that are real LEMONS.. If you don't believe it just check the produce isle at your local Publix.. My wife is currently driving a 2001 sts with 131,315 miles on it, other than a quart of mobil 1 every 1000 miles or so it is still a fine ride.. I watch it pretty closely and care for it appropriately, tires, wipers, etc but until OBAMA gets all of our problems fixed, we probably going to drive it till it quits then call AAA and tell them to drag it home and I'll make a mobile sound studio out of it(got great radio in it) Good luck on whatever you do, but seems there isnt much else that can go wrong..
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I have a '01 Pontiac Montana, and I'm very reluctant to buy another GM vehicle, be it a Chevy or a Cadillac. In 70,000 miles, we've already had the transmission rebuilt, AC compressor and condensor replaced, and the majority of the major brake system components replaced, just to name a few major problems. Compared to its competition at the time, at $35k, the car was not even cheap either.
If I'm about to drop another $30k+ on another GM, I want to make sure it's not a money pit like our Montana. Thanks.
Anyway, I don't mind the price. I'm just saying, we already spent $35k on a GM van that has probably spent more time in the shop than on the road, and if I'm going to spend any amount of money for another GM car, I want to know that it will at least be reliable, if not blowing the doors off the competition.
If we were to get an STS, we would probably get a full option V8, so at $60k+, it better at least live up to its heritage and stop getting outclassed by cheaper Japanese imports and its German counterparts.
All I'm saying is to give me a reason to buy the STS, other than because it's 'just as good' as the competition and because I'll be helping the economy. Isn't that how every car owner should feel, especially at this level?
The long term J D Powers survey of owners puts the Cadillacs at somewhat worse than Buick. Buick is better than Toyota, but worse than Lexus, which is top rated.
If you can afford to blow over $60,000 on a car, then you can probably afford to replace a few parts now and then. The magazines have not thought too much of the STS, thinking that the Germans are still better.
Personally, I would do it again but get the new STS with even more goodies. My dealer is excellent, but since I have had only 2 oil changes, I haven't had to "put them to the test" - and don't think I will time soon.
No transmission "hunting" a la Lexus and Toyota. No engine problems. Regular gas if you want. Plus the car automatically emails you monthly about it's service status and sends an emergency email if it detects trouble!
Only dislike is the useless glove compartment, but it is the same for every other car in this class.
BTW, the transmission is built in France by a GM - Franco group and it is the same 5 speed automatic as in the BMW 5 series. The V6 is peppy as heck and I saw little difference between it and the V8. If you don't want to spring for the Nav, wait for a June or after STS with the "turn to turn" On-Star feature. It's a Nav system with voice directions and turn indicators on the instrument panel, but no large (space eating) display above the console. On Star is vastly underrated - every car ought to have this or similar, including the built in phone.
If you're looking for a full size car, go DTS. The STS is a smaller, sportier car but actually has a bigger wheel base than the DTS, but less interior room.
If you are considering a rear wheel, BMW 5 series type car, this is a great choice and it has the largest interior in that class. Plus you can make a great deal with GM - they are out to move their iron.
The Cadillac division has bent over backwards to be courteous and to thank me for my business. A refreshing surprise.
Hope that helps.
I think that BMW may still be using the 5 speed on the X-series trucks made here in the US.
Though one could certainly argue that the CTS (with "only" 6 cylinder motors) might benefit more in performance, and I was certainly hoping for the six speed there as well, I suppose it is possible that the RWD six speed might be seen as the ‘most premium’ component, and appropriate for the most premium model = STS.
We’ll see . . .
- Ray
Whishin’ & hopein’ . . .
"The Strasbourg site provides automatic transmissions to a number of high level external customers, such as BMW, Land Rover, Opel and Cadillac"
I believe the 6 speed is not yet available to any but Cadillac and Corvette until production ramps.
"MYC Transmission, 6-speed automatic, heavy-duty, electronically controlled with
overdrive, tow/haul mode and tap up/tap down shifting"
- Ray
NOT currently in need of such a large Sport Ute . .
But my point had to do with the quality of the STS - that high end autos such as the BMW use(d) the same GM designed and manufactured tranny.
Back to the "does BMW still use the GM tranny"...
Pls be aware that in Europe, the Z4, among others, is available w/ your choice of manual or 5 speed automatics.
From the Ireland BMW web site:
"In addition to a choice of 5- and 6-speed manual transmissions, the BMW Z4 also offers the option of 5-speed automatic transmission..."
Looks like everyone is having problems getting enough 6 speeds for every model in every market. Consumers obviously want them with the cost of petrol so high.
I'm sure every high end auto will move to 6 or 7 speed trannys as soon as possible.
The history of BMW using a GM automatic dates back to when they were using a ZF automatic and there were too many problems with those transmissions. So, BMW asked GM for a transmission, and started with a 4 speed, but this was upgraded to the 5 speed that GM has been using in the RWD sigma Cadillacs. I think that ZF has returned to supply BMW with a 6 speed automatic. I suppose that BMW has made sure that the new ZF transmission will be reliable.
GM is correct in that the 5 speed was used by BMW, but the proper term is "was", not "is".
Any suggestions, constructive comments, ideas or anything else that may assist in getting this car to the level that I thought cadillacs should be at?
If you want a trouble free car, please don't buy a Cadillac Buy a Lexus or a Toyota. If you don't believe me just take a look at their track record throughout the years compared to GM's vehicles. If you want trouble free the chances of you getting one from General Motors is like the chances of getting a WILD CARD.
The horror stories you mentioned that you had with your GM vehicles are notaberrations, they are the normal experience. I know, because I've had friends that have had their cars. They are designed and built to break. That's how they make their money. They make their money on parts.
If loyalty is important to you, then buy a Cadillac, however, think about what loyalty is going to do to your wallet in the long run.
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I'm thinking about buying a new car and the Cadillac STS is one of my considerations. I was wondering if owners could tell me any griefs they've had with the car, major or minor. I just want a car that will be as trouble free as possible>
Actually, I don't think GM really cares if people buy cars that have their nameplates on them because they are a global entity car manufacturing and distribution conglomerate with cosmetic engineering and cosmetic galore.
Case in point. Did you know that the Chevrolet Prizm is actually a Toyota Corolla in GM skin. The Chevrolet Aveo is built in South Korea.
More profound is the fact that Daimler Chrysler's headquarters are in GERMANY.
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All I'm saying is to give me a reason to buy the STS, other than because it's 'just as good' as the competition and because I'll be helping the economy. Isn't that how every car owner should feel, especially at this level?
I have a Toyotta Corolla. The cheapest car Toyota makes. The fist time I had any major problems with it, was at 150,000 miles, so there is no way anyone can convince me I should waste my money on a General Motors origin car. Not in this life and not in the next.
The reason why the price of the Cadillac you were looking at is so cheap is because it wasn't worth it's overinflated price to begin with and didn't hold its value anywhere near as well as a Lexus or Toyota.
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Hey everybody! I'm considering selling my '00 Toyota Camry LE and and looking at getting a '00 Cadillac Seville SLS with 58k... I was wondering how the quality of these are during the '98-'04 models? My Toyota has been trouble free for the past year and I'm ready to upgrade to something a little faster and alot more comfortable. I have found a SLS for around $9,950 (shocked at the low prices of these cars) Do you think that is a good deal? Thanks for the help.
A purchase this high demands special treatment. GM shows us that they are aware of the competition and are doing what they can to ensure the customer that they made the right choice with a GM product.
I sat in an STS and have to tell you, its a fine car. I have recently been in a BMW 5 series and have to tell you that from the outside it looks like a Pontiac or Nissan. Once you get in then you see its an expensive car.
The STS looks good either way. I think the V8 is no longer good enough to compete in the segment but I don't think GM will belike ford and ignore this problem.
If the '09 or '10 STS is any good as the '08 CTS, then Cadillac will really begin to re-establish itself.
Nevertheless the tire change was well worth the price!!
It has 24k miles on it. They want 25k for it.
Carfax report shows that it was a lease with the same owner for 3yrs.
It's certifed pre-owned with a 6yr/100,000 mile warranty (from the cars 2006 date)
Anything about the 2006 models that i should know that's a negative?
Worked Ok for the next 198 miles. Today the same problems ocurred. In addition, the transmission would not shift out of second gear and the engine died three times in about six blocks. So I am currently sitting and waiting for my new car with less than 400 miles on it to be towed back to the dealer.
I guess I'd better bone up on the Texas Lemon Law!
Pros: Outstanding powertrain - powerful and quiet. Decent fuel economy for a car of this size and horsepower. Comfortable interior for tall drivers & passengers (I am 6'5"). Responsive steering. Strong brakes. Good quality materials used in interior, good finish overall (but see caveats below). Styling is a matter of opinion but I find it pleasing.
Cons: Many driver controls are too complex and confusing to use, particularly while driving. Examples: nav system, rainsense feature, multi function headlight / turn signal / cruise control stalk. Noticeable rattles in both driver and front passenger arm rest controls, as well as passenger side dashboard - absolutely unacceptable in any 2009 automobile, and certainly in one of this price category. These annoying rattles and creaks mar the otherwise decent assembly. Trunk is deceptively small given the massive look of this car's rear-end. Interior storage is almost nil other than small glovebox (swallowed by gigantic owner's manual / nav manual brick - which you will need) and undersized console. Dealer experience was un-impressive for a car at $57k MSRP.
Overall I am happy with the car but the interior assembly is hardly up to the standards of the imports. Again, I am no American-car hater but it is what it is.
The STS has no rattles and the Northstar is a real treat after the 3.2 in the CTS. We'll see about quality, but based upon my experience with the CTS I'm not that concerned.
I agree that the nav system has issues. The user interface isn't very good and more than once, it has led me on a wild goose chase. I happen to like the rainsense wipers and the intellibeam features. The car is much quieter than the CTS and for a large car, it handles nicely. I do miss the fold-down rear seats.
I find the powertrain on my car (320 hp V8 - 4WD), and frankly most of the car's features, superior to my last car, a 2005 Infiniti Q45. Even though the Q45's V8 had 20 more hp (340) and 18 more lb ft of torque (333 lb ft at 4000 rpm) than my STS, it was far from the sporty, fun to drive experience the STS provides. Actual 0-60 times are about 1.5 seconds better from the STS (5.7 sec), and their weights are nearly identical. Cadillac's sigma platform (CTS/STS) is far more rigid where it should be and is an entire cut above that in many of its competitors. The stereo (15 speakers, 5.1 sound, comes with Nav system) is the best I've ever heard in a car -- even trumping my uncle's $120,000 2008 MB CL550. For the price, you just can't beat the feature set and luxury + drive dynamics combo of the STS. Period. BTW. if you're looking at the 2008-2010 models, the V6 packs 302 hp with great low end torque -- according to several experts, it's so awesome that it renders the V8 a somewhat minor upgrade. GM's new High Feature V6s are the first from the Company that not only run head-to-head with the best from Japan and Europe, but in some respects is actually superior (fuel economy is not one of these respects -- so I read). The 2005-2007 V6 (255 hp/258 lb ft) is quick (7 sec 0-60) and far more than adequate. Its "numbers" are misleading, b/c the max hp and torque say far less about performance than many may think. GM's put some clever tech into the power transfer systems of these V6s. The V8 is better when you need a punch of power in the 45-75 mph range. Off the line the V8 is somewhat better, but not in a way that many drivers would likely even notice. Get the STS with Certified warranty. You'll have nearly the same time (6 years from new purchase or 100,000 miles) and coverage essentially identical to "bumper-to-bumper" with all of the "concierge" services like roadside assistance, new loaner cars to drive when yours is serviced and so on.
Sorry to hear about your Montana. I'm sure the reliability was terrible for that model and I don't blame you for never buying GM again, but I've had great experiences with them (albeit with a 2007 STS); non-GM affiliated quality studies prove that they've come an amazingly long way with quality, reliability and fit/finish, surpassing the Japanese makes in many cases.
The Toyota Matrix is the Toyota version of a joint venture between Toyota and General Motors, the GM part is the Pontiac Vibe. These cars were produced ont he same production line using the same quality standards & functional parts. Of course the badges & show surfaces were different. Many auto reviewers ranked the Matrix far superior to that of the Vibe (few direct comparisons, but when comparing their individual "final scores" and comments). We're all human with unavoidable biases, and this is working great for Toyota, but not so much for GM.